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Addressing the revenge fleet vs ganking, invisibiliy and the god's speed.


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1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

lol

You do understand we have to dimensions, 1) 75x compressed OW and 2) instanced battles, hence the 3 minute join timer, which is more than enough time to let nearby ships (10+ enemy players) join. If they are NOT in that range, they can't join. Why would they? "Speed boost is just way too exploitable" you said yourself. So wheres the problem?

I want what's best for the game to have a good PvP experience - Being rejected a 1v2, while being the one, to then find yourself to fight an 1v10, because they profited from the OW speed bosot and were NOT in 3 minute vicinity of the original battle, is NOT a good game experience. Maybe for some guys who prefer 10v1 roflstomps only, but for me it isnt.

This is the problem:

36 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

Also on a last note, it's worse than ever before with gank squads hiding in battle instances with "spies" outside letting them know of a lone ship sailing close to their battle instance. They all exit the battle with invisibility and swat their target. This doesn't seem like fun to me. 

To be honest. You are a selfish person. You do not want what is best for the GAME, you want what is best for YOU. There are tens or even houndreds of players who have left the game because of ganking.

I would be glad if you leave the game and they come back, Sir.

 

If you want fair battles against good oponents, then play Naval Action Legends. Until then, please leave the game and all the casual and newbie games alone.

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4 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

To be honest. You are a selfish person. You do not want what is best for the GAME, you want what is best for YOU. There are tens or even houndreds of players who have left the game because of ganking.

 

To be honest, I dont give a f*ck what you think what sort of person I am :)
If you dont like ganking, dont play a fking OW MMO... Go play Hello Kitty online or Clicker heroes

Oh and it's not like alts were not used for spying before.. You could log out and have an alt spying for you before.. Alt issues are never going to be dealt with becaue they're an easy income for the game.

 

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Edited by Liquicity
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1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

To be honest, I dont give a f*ck what you think what sort of person I am :)
If you dont like ganking, dont play a fking OW MMO... Go play Hello Kitty online or Clicker heroes

Oh and it's not like alts were not used for spying before.. You could log out and have an alt spying for you before.. Alt issues are never going to be dealt with becaue they're an easy income for the game.

Congrats on disqualifying yourself as anyone who is able to field a proper argument.

I think you are correct on the alt abuse. But that is no excuse of allowing further abuse of game mechanics.

I have experienced you as someone with terriffic skills and who wants to have fair fights. That is fair enough.

But the same mechanics that you want in place to protect YOU, give a vast field of opportunity to all sorts of characters, who do not want a fair fight, but want to harass low level players. 

The problem is that such behaviour will, in the medium to long run also ruin the game for you. Because there will be noone left for you to fight.

 

It is so sad that you do not understand this.

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2 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

text

So then re-introduce rookie zones rather than messing up the whole RoE again? We've gone through revenge fleets lively and the vast majority of players came to the conclusion that they're NOT supposed to even be a thing.
In general I say ganking is part of an OW MMO. Admin said himself a while ago, "everytime you set sail, you should be aware of the fact that you're risking your ship" or something similar. However I agree new players need a safe spot to get going. I liked the idea of Rookie Zones.

@admin
What happened to the idea of giving new starters a safe starting point? At the moment it seems like the Bahamas got #Swerged and are not used for anything anyway, other than easy Conquest points.

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Just now, Liquicity said:

Admin said himself a while ago, "everytime you set sail, you should be aware of the fact that you're risking your ship" or something similar. However I agree new players need a safe spot to get going.

Then why should the guys sailing to enemy waters be excempt from this rule? They come up with four Surprises, gank a trader or a lonely newbie doing missions. Then they use INVIS and BOOST to prevent a proper fight for the friends of the player they just ganked.

No spot should be safe, but right now, there are safe spots for raiders, because they cannot be brought to justice.

 

Rookie zones are just a workaround and not really well designable.

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13 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

This is the problem:

 

To be honest. You are a selfish person. You do not want what is best for the GAME, you want what is best for YOU. There are tens or even houndreds of players who have left the game because of ganking.

I would be glad if you leave the game and they come back, Sir.

 

If you want fair battles against good oponents, then play Naval Action Legends. Until then, please leave the game and all the casual and newbie games alone.

Casuals a newbies would enjoy fair battles too. Proplem is they don't know it because they learn to gank or be ganked. You contradict yourself there. You say loads of people have left cause of ganking but he is selfish if he wants fair battles? Im close to leaving now myself because its either 10vs4 or no battle at all.

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

Casuals a newbies would enjoy fair battles too. Proplem is they don't know it because they learn to gank or be ganked. You contradict yourself there. You say loads of people have left cause of ganking but he is selfish if he wants fair battles? Im close to leaving now myself because its either 10vs4 or no battle at all.

He is selfish because he wants what is best for him. But these mechanics are not best for 90% of the players and will result in the death of the game.

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2 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

Then why should the guys sailing to enemy waters be excempt from this rule? They come up with four Surprises, gank a trader or a lonely newbie doing missions. Then they use INVIS and BOOST to prevent a proper fight for the friends of the player they just ganked.

No spot should be safe, but right now, there are safe spots for raiders, because they cannot be brought to justice.

Because they attacked something, and when there is no reinforcement withing the 3 minutes join timer, THERE IS NOONE IN RANGE. 3 minute OW time is plenty. It lets you cover quite a distance. Players assembling outside are profiting from the 75x compressed OW to set up. Let me quote you:

13 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

It is so sad that you do not understand this.

It's your own fault if you get caught. Except newbs maybe. They need to be given a safe starting point.

Edited by Liquicity
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1 minute ago, shaeberle84 said:

He is selfish because he wants what is best for him. But these mechanics are not best for 90% of the players and will result in the death of the game.

There is reasoning there but the solution is not the RoE/Battle End. It is something else, that I am sure of.

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8 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Because they attacked something, and when there is no reinforcement withing the 3 minutes join timer, THERE IS NOONE IN RANGE. 3 minute OW time is plenty. It lets you cover quite a distance. Players assembling outside are profiting from the 75x compressed OW to set up. Let me quote you:

It's your own fault if you get caught. Except newbs maybe. They need to be given a safe starting point.

We agree to disagree.

To quote yourself:

28 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

To be honest, I dont give a f*ck what you think what sort of person I am :)
If you dont like ganking, dont play a fking OW MMO... Go play Hello Kitty online or Clicker heroes

If you want battles that ignore the open world, then leave and come back for naval action legends.

You always want to pick what suits you the most. If you want to jump someones mission, then it is 3 minute battle timer and nothing else. If it is not in range in the open worl, no one should be able to join. 

But then you want a safe way out, where the open world basically does not matter because of INVIS and BOOST.

 

You again and again proof my point, that you only care about your playsyle and this playstyle only.

Edited by shaeberle84
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1 minute ago, shaeberle84 said:

If you want battles that ignore the open world, then leave and come back for naval action legends.

You always want to pick what suits you the most. If you want to jump someones mission, then it is 3 minute battle timer and nothing else. If it is not in range in the open worl, no one should be able to join. 

But then you want a safe way out, where the open world basically does not matter because of INVIS and BOOST.

 

You again and again proof my point, that you only care about your playsyle and this playsyle only.

"You always want to pick what suits you the most"

Not even close to true. I TRIED to fight SEVERAL 1v2, 1v3, 2v3, etc (while being the outnumbered ones) in the last few weeks. Some I lost, some I won. That's how it goes, you can't win everything. But the battles were enjoyable! And ships are cheap. I quite frankly do NOT understand why anyone would not want to commit to a balanced battle. But the vast majority of players seems to do so at the moment. Hence I changed my Steam Review. Can't recommend this game to anyone looking for enjoyable "PvP" on a "PvP" server at the moment.

"A safe way out" because of the fact that players outside are waiting, profiting from the 75x OW compression.. Do you really don't get this? It's like the most easiest thing ever to set up a somewhat reliable revenge fleet, without the speed boost. Sure, you guys over there might like 10v1 roflstomps. But some guys actually like a challenge

Also, "you only care about your playstyle..." - This is an OW MMO. Ganking is a part of ANY OW MMO. Even I personally don't enjoy engaging battles where the opponent doesn't have a slight chance of winning, why would they be unable to do so? As said before, it's your own fault if you get caught.

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3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

And ships are cheap.

They are not for a casual player. They have to do like 10 missions to get their surprise replaced. That is not cheap, calculated in lifetime. They will just stop playing the game if this happens a lot.

 

4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

A safe way out" because of the fact that players outside are waiting, profiting from the 75x OW compression.. Do you really don't get this?

7 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

This is an OW MMO. Ganking is a part of ANY OW MMO.

I get it, but it is an OW MMO with battle instances. This is the same like other MMOs. I used to be ganked in World of Warcraft when exiting dungeons as well. But there, death is very cheap. Here, death can be devastating to someone. Enough that they stop playing.

 

4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

I quite frankly do NOT understand why anyone would not want to commit to a balanced battle.

2 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Even I personally don't enjoy engaging battles where the opponent doesn't have a slight chance of winning, why would they be unable to do so? As said before, it's your own fault if you get caught.

You do not enjoy this, but a whole lot of other people are. And they are ruining the game for the rest of us.

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49 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

 

They are not for a casual player. They have to do like 10 missions to get their surprise replaced. That is not cheap, calculated in lifetime. They will just stop playing the game if this happens a lot.

 

I get it, but it is an OW MMO with battle instances. This is the same like other MMOs. I used to be ganked in World of Warcraft when exiting dungeons as well. But there, death is very cheap. Here, death can be devastating to someone. Enough that they stop playing.

 

You do not enjoy this, but a whole lot of other people are. And they are ruining the game for the rest of us.

If you want a fair fight I can give you one. Our clan is always asking in global for 3v3 or 4v4. We want someone to fight against. We have even ganked our own clanmate because we got no fights after sailing hours. Sorry bom bom

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REASONABLE as in defensive tags PLUS the list of other aids I posted earlier? 

 

 

Then maybe it is just your fault to get ALONE into an area where 10+ enemy players are. How about that?

How is that any different from me saying "Maybe your guy shouldnt be sailing ALONE in an area where he might get attacked"?...

Why are we still constantly trying to penalize people who actively PvP?

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3 hours ago, koltes said:

This mechanic is not to remove hunting in the area. Its when defenders actually come out and start hunting the intruders they would have some chances to catch them.
If I'm a hunter and tagged trader and killed him after 3 minutes when Battle Instance is closed this means that I got away. Done and dusted. Why should I be ganked then?
However if I'm spotted and the chase begins the chasers needs to be able to bring me to fight providing that they have fast enough ships.

But the point you are missing is that after you have attacked and sunk the first trader you get a buff that now allows you head off and magically appear next to another trader and instantly attack him, after which you can do the same again and again as long as you are in a target rich environment, and the revenge fleet that started forming after the first trader was attacked still has little chance of catching you.

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1 hour ago, shaeberle84 said:

Then why should the guys sailing to enemy waters be excempt from this rule? They come up with four Surprises, gank a trader or a lonely newbie doing missions. Then they use INVIS and BOOST to prevent a proper fight for the friends of the player they just ganked.

No spot should be safe, but right now, there are safe spots for raiders, because they cannot be brought to justice.

 

Rookie zones are just a workaround and not really well designable.

I have to admit like it or not this is fact, for some like me with so many hours in this game it's not a problem I know the golden rules, but I see it day after day for the majority of new players and casuals, they are leaving in droves and I will no longer spend my valuable time chasing surprises around then logging off.

Some  may disagree but personally I think a tipping point is coming very soon.

 

Edited by Tac
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4 minutes ago, koltes said:

Thanks for staying on topic lol :rolleyes:

I am its about ganking and revenge fleets. I gave my oppinion about the tagging already. Maybe it is our job as a community to organise fair battles to have fun. I am offering a solution to this problem. If we all did this we would have fair pvp.

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To help, when invisible you shouldn't be able to see other ships. It will be a lot hard to tag right after invisibility if you can't see them till they can see you.... Not impossible, just harder. 

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5 minutes ago, Daguse said:

To help, when invisible you shouldn't be able to see other ships. It will be a lot hard to tag right after invisibility if you can't see them till they can see you.... Not impossible, just harder. 

This would be a fix in the right direction.

 

On a side note, I am noticing a lot of these threads coming out of BLACK clan lately.  

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12 hours ago, koltes said:

1. Tagging is changed so you can only initiate tag if target is in front of your ship (not behind), thus solves an issue of faster ships not being able to catch slower ships due to defensive tags leading to repeated tagging battle after battle. Maybe closest distance limit circle added that even if you drop on top of the target you still some distance away;

Why not simply spawn the two ships that are initiating combat always at the same distance? Then we dont need to change the tagging. I thinks its very reasonable to start battles always slightly within cannon range, thats also when real battles would have begun. The exact distance needs to be discussed ofcourse. I dont see the point why ships should spawn close to each other, and even without cannons loaded.

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16 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Why not simply spawn the two ships that are initiating combat always at the same distance? Then we dont need to change the tagging. I thinks its very reasonable to start battles always slightly within cannon range, thats also when real battles would have begun. The exact distance needs to be discussed ofcourse. I dont see the point why ships should spawn close to each other, and even without cannons loaded.

That is to simulate the "surprise" factor where someone got the element of surprise on his opponent.  Like came out of a fog bank, or was able to close the distance before the crew was able to beat to quarters.  

There is a lot that has to happen before a ship of this area is at action stations status. 

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4 minutes ago, Hodo said:

That is to simulate the "surprise" factor where someone got the element of surprise on his opponent.  Like came out of a fog bank, or was able to close the distance before the crew was able to beat to quarters.  

There is a lot that has to happen before a ship of this area is at action stations status. 

This totally makes sense... not.

When a ship chases me for several minutes in the OW already, there is no surprise factor. Especially when there is no fog.

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13 hours ago, Archaos said:

Why would someone let you get to 1250 meters knowing that you would then get the speed and invisibility buff. Once you reached the 2 minute time the chaser would just exit battle to deny you the buff. If I am unable to tag you and you are gaining distance what is the point in continuing to chase.

  If Think he also added if they leave or you are the only one remaining.. later in the list..  Plus technically if they leave you have extended to 1250 meters or more:)

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On 8/1/2017 at 7:08 AM, Vernon Merrill said:

Invisibility doesn't matter without the super speed.  Without the superspeed, you go back to what we just had and what drove people away. The "home defense" fleets set up a 30-second circle around the battle and re-tag ad nauseum.   

I agree, however some of your supporting arguments need to be reworked:

Traders were given guns

The traders that had sufficient crew to defend already had guns before change. 

 

Quote

Fleet holds are now utilized - please elaborate?

The join timer is extended again - please elaborate? 

Theres still a million AI fleets to run to

AI Fleets defensive tagging needs to be removed from the game, it helps everyone evade fights, both hunter, trader and guard. 

Theres still a million forts to run to

They are actually far less reliable than most people realize - it was proven that even a 4th rate can be sunk right in front of a capital if enough opponents participate in the gank and they can instantly escape once the target is dead.

Many areas, especially the Antilles have ports that are less than two minutes sail from each other...

There are cooldowns to joining battles after leaving port and human response time. If the join timer is reduced, which may be fine to do, those cooldowns need to be proportionally reduced so we don't have the old system where someone near the same port can't join unless they are already outside and waiting.

How many more concessions need to be made for these so-called "defenseless traders"?!  Grab an escort.

Part of the problem is that the game-world is too big and people are too few. Trade lanes should be highlighted on the map if repeated frequently, like a fuzzy heat map, so that hunters can roam more efficiently and attack away from ports.

And if you're in a warship, you have ZERO right to a safe space.  

Its a game about combat and the only way to get good is to practice, which for me involved a lot of being sunk when I first started   

I agree, all manner of promoting PvP should be considered, and vulnerable trade does result in better cooperation inside a Nation. Perhaps the system of escorting and payments should be introduced - with traders able to issue defensive contracts with a distance limit that is paid partly by them and partly by the Nation's capital as a "mission". 

 

Edited by Tenet
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