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Declaration of Victory and the Terms


Koltes

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10 hours ago, Raekur said:

The comment is NOT a pre wipe conception, it has to do with the French being present not more than a month ago attacking British ships at Port au Prince and screening for the pirates. Now if this is due to a split within the French nation where some do support the pirates and others do not, than France has some house cleaning to do before they start saying that No french are supporting the pirates.

Oh and Arsilon, when has France allied with Britain post wipe? I have not seen once instance of any such mutual operations. So are you referring to pre wipe conceptions now?

If your entire view of France's politics is one night at Port au Prince let me point out a couple of things.

1)  Sure there were several French vs. British battles around that port battle.  What you may not have seen is the French vs. Pirate battles that were going on during and before the battle as well.  I personally got sunk in one of those battles so don't think the big bad meanie French were out picking on the downtrodden Brits.  France was there for the PvP period.

2)  Keep in mind the Brits had already taken Tiburon from the French just before this as well -- hopefully you can see why when given the choice to shoot at the Jolly Roger or the Union Jack, someone might have chosen the latter instead of the former in this particular case, especially for those French captains that had bases set up in Las Cayes area and had to move them.

3) I will acknowledge and it has been stated publicly on these forums before (yet to this day people still do not believe this is the truth).  There was a single clan agreement between BLACK and one of the clans who was basing out of Haiti for mutual 'defense' of Haiti in return for laying off any captains flying the BLACK or BLOOD tags.  This was NOT a formal alliance and there were no conditions of mutual cooperation for any offensive operations or anything other than agreement BLACK would help screen any attempt to take Las Cayes.  You saw how effective that screening was and once those French bases were booted out of Las Cayes that agreement was null and void.

In response to your other question I would say the following.

1)  To my knowledge there has been no formal mutual operations between Britain and France since the wipe.  I do know there are some 'understandings' between certain French individuals and even some French clans with respect to trade and/or specific hunting licenses but I don't think that is what you were asking about.

2)  Aside from the clan agreement above with respect to Las Cayes, when have you seen the French and Pirates had any other operations together?  One specific port area for one very specific reason is a far cry from the French and Pirates being allied.  Anything else France is doing whether it be against the Dutch, British, Danish, Swedes, etc. is more than 20 minutes for them to sail and/or is more than just seal clubbing noobs so they have no interest in doing it even if we were to ask them (and we haven't and have no intentions of asking them).

3)  I've said this elsewhere on one of these threads that given France's map position and population distribution it would be foolish for France to fully ally with either GB or Pirates right now as all that would lead to is a shift of focus on the French ports.  Open World operations are another thing entirely and we can play the spoiler more aptly than anything else we could hope to accomplish -- we just need to be asked about it and presented with a proposal that is something other than 'Hey France, why don't you guys go attack [insert nation here] head on and create a situation that would instantly spark a push into French home waters. In return we'll be your friends but we won't be able to help defend you in the Antilles when [insert nation here] does that since you're too far away for us to care or be bothered with.'

 

1 hour ago, Sid the Infected said:

I for one have no pre-wipe preconceptions. I never played on pvp2. I was a Pvp1 guy and other than knowing that at least two of the largest factions and maybe even three were allied, I know very little about pre-wipe politics and history. That being said, not all of my concerns were developed through personal experience. Some of my "understandings" came from the talk of others that play longer hours than me so their preconceptions may have contributed to my current ones. Still, seeing the French go after the pirates would open my heart to them quicker than promises to do so.

In response to both Raekur and to the above comment from Sid, I'm assuming you are British.  Be careful you do not fall into the trap of 'observer error'.  You see when French captains attack you so its easy to assume that is what all French captains do at all times, ie attack Brits.  What you do not see is French captains attacking other nations since you are not there.  It is easy to forget or apply less weight to these actions in your own perceptions.

Luckily we now have a CombatNews channel where you can see the French are not indiscriminately attacking one nation over another.  On one particular night it might be one nation because that is where the French are that night (or week given the circumstance and how far a sail it was to get wherever they are that night).  But even then (if you take the time to actually look at the clan tags on who is killing who where) you will see that it isn't the French nation as much as it is a given Clan doing their own thing on any given night (or span of several days).

In response to Sid's specific request....You say you would love to see the French go after the pirates?   If you were in charge of France what would you need in order to do that effectively?  Perhaps work towards that interest rather than expect France to continue to sail half way across the map to find anyone other than Danes and Dutch because its something you'd like to see them do.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Raekur said:

Koltes, my point was that BLACK wants to take ports from Britain and hand them over to other nations. My question is that what pressure does BLACK plan on putting on Britain to ensure that those ports remain in the hands of the nations they chose? Unless BLACK plans on becoming NATO and starts trying to dictate who does what where, I don't see the end game to BLACK's terms. In a nutshell, this is the first time I have seen BLACK attempt to control who gets what ports in regards to several regions and I think it is a mistake to attempt it for several reasons.

No pressure at all. We just want other nations in need to grab some ports and rebuild so we have more competitive nations. Maybe even swedes if they can come with the numbers. After that it can go all over the show again for all we care

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20 hours ago, Raekur said:

it has to do with the French being present not more than a month ago attacking British ships at Port au Prince and screening for the pirates.

The perception at the time was that the British were super strong and the only hope of mankind was to team up on them. Something about how they flip 3 ports at the same time and had huge screening fleets and shot lightning from their arse and all that.

But that's why I don't like making big alliances or long term deals: situations change.

We've been KOSing the Pirates ever since Haiti. We actually were fighting the Pirates at the start of the PaP action until it was mutually decided that the British looked like the bigger threat.

Also, it was the British who pushed us out of Haiti.

So we did pretty much owe you a punch in the face for that.

I mean technically this is all your fault.

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20 hours ago, Raekur said:

The comment is NOT a pre wipe conception, it has to do with the French being present not more than a month ago attacking British ships at Port au Prince and screening for the pirates.

 

LOL  When the Brits night-flipped Les Cayes and Port-au-Prince away from us did you somehow think France was suddenly going to become ambivalent about getting the Brits out of those ports?  If the Dutch kicked the Brits out of Haiti then France probably would have helped them.  If the Danes ran the Brits out France may even have helped them. 

 

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That is what I figured Koltes, but the only nation that is currently sailing such a long distance from a friendly port is France and the area I have seen them attacking invalidates the claims that they are attacking Britain because they are between them and the pirates (kinda hard to attack pirates when the nearest pirate port is about 220K distance and the nearest french port is on the other side of the map).

Swede, Dane, and Dutch have not given any impression that they would want to operate on the far west side of the map as it would isolate any that did and unless they were able to create a self sufficient and self sustaining area the colony would slowly hemorrhage supplies and ships until it would wind up  being abandoned. In a nut shell, if you want to dictate terms you may consider terms that have a higher chance of achieving the objective because dishing out ports in the gulf will only weaken their forces in their home area and nothing more.

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4 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 

 If the Danes ran the Brits out France may even have helped them. 

 

News flash.

France belongs to Britain. 

Richard the Lionheart - Born in France, was English King.

William the Conquer  - Born in France, first TRUE king of England.

 

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8 hours ago, Arsilon said:

In response to Sid's specific request....You say you would love to see the French go after the pirates?   If you were in charge of France what would you need in order to do that effectively?  Perhaps work towards that interest rather than expect France to continue to sail half way across the map to find anyone other than Danes and Dutch because its something you'd like to see them do.

You could sail a quarter of the way around instead and hit pirates instead. :)

France seems to always be "between the Devil and the deep blue sea" (look that one up. It comes from the age of sail). They have very "hard borders" and can only effectively expand in two directions and in both of those cases, with different nations. Contrast that with Britain which has at least 6 easy directions to pursue at the start of a map and most of those ports will be undefended. (gulf of course) A small France therefore is nearly required to make arrangements with others. At least on one of their borders. Working towards an agreement with France is premature although their is never anything wrong with talks. You would probably be surprised with some of the info I could divulge about western Haiti if I was so disposed to do so. A trust must be built first before any kind of gulf presence could be fathomed.

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1 minute ago, Sid the Infected said:

You could sail a quarter of the way around instead and hit pirates instead. :)

France seems to always be "between the Devil and the deep blue sea" (look that one up. It comes from the age of sail). They have very "hard borders" and can only effectively expand in two directions and in both of those cases, with different nations. Contrast that with Britain which has at least 6 easy directions to pursue at the start of a map and most of those ports will be undefended. (gulf of course) A small France therefore is nearly required to make arrangements with others. At least on one of their borders. Working towards an agreement with France is premature although their is never anything wrong with talks. You would probably be surprised with some of the info I could divulge about western Haiti if I was so disposed to do so. A trust must be built first before any kind of gulf presence could be fathomed.

Talk is easy and several vehicles at your disposal to enable it.

Action is the hard part especially when there are so many moving parts.  But again, if it was that simple, the game would be oh so boring.

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Arsilon, Slamz and Barbancourt - I am not questioning why France and Britain are shooting at each other...only wondering why some of you have the audacity to ask for safe passage past some of our ports. You attack traders who are in areas that are well beyond a reasonable distance from a french port and then act like it never happened. So I guess the end of this is that France and Britain are going to stay hostile, plain and simple. Like you said Arsilon, actions speak louder so the attack by French warships at over 300k from the nearest french port shows Frances true intentions.

Sid, the claim that they are hitting Britain because "we were in the way" can be chalked up as their being deceitful or making a weak attempt at hiding their true intentions.

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6 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Like you said Arsilon, actions speak louder so the attack by French warships at over 300k from the nearest french port shows Frances true intentions.

It pretty much says France will sail ALONG way to get some PVP! France is small but I bet you every nation has seen some French somewhere at some time. 

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18 minutes ago, Hodo said:

News flash.

France belongs to Britain. 

Richard the Lionheart - Born in France, was English King.

William the Conquer  - Born in France, first TRUE king of England.

 

Hah!

Nice Try Hodo man!

Bill was French as French could be. While technically descended from Vikings that was 4 or 5 generations removed. There was no Saxon or Anglo blood in good ole Bill! That means every British port battle win is a win for France!

 

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1 hour ago, koltes said:

No pressure at all. We just want other nations in need to grab some ports and rebuild so we have more competitive nations. Maybe even swedes if they can come with the numbers. After that it can go all over the show again for all we care

Koltes, you continue to speak out of both sides of your mouth, And I believe your actions in game this evening will Invalidate this entire statement of yours,

I am not sure what mind game you think you are playing with saying one thing on the forums, but doing the opposite in game.

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17 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Arsilon, Slamz and Barbancourt -..only wondering why some of you have the audacity to ask for safe passage past some of our ports.

I can't speak for Barbancourt. I can't speak for Slamz either but in this case I can assume his response would be the same as mine.

Never in our playing history in this game which dates back to early 2016 have you heard anyone in Purge request safe passage past anyone's port.

I will assume you were meaning that there are those in France and not Slamz or I (or Barbancourt) specifically that have asked for safe passage.  Perhaps I'm getting several of these threads mixed up since we seem to be having very similar conversations in each at this point.  But be clear, unless other arrangements have been made, eg Denmark (or at least CCCP since it remains to be seen how AUSEZ will treat previous treaties), we fully expect any of our traders to be sunk and you should expect the same in return.

 

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27 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Koltes, you continue to speak out of both sides of your mouth, And I believe your actions in game this evening will Invalidate this entire statement of yours,

I am not sure what mind game you think you are playing with saying one thing on the forums, but doing the opposite in game.

I dont play any games outside the actual NA game. Not mind games nor silly games. If you need a proper answer on our actions you need to be more specific asking the question 

Edited by koltes
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42 minutes ago, Raekur said:

So I guess the end of this is that France and Britain are going to stay hostile, plain and simple.

 

From what I've gathered (I'm not wedded to it, personally) there are a lot of people in this game that believe that this is "the way things should naturally be", so it may not be avoidable unless another power clearly needs to be stopped.  Couple that with the fact that GB has a lot of players and a number of French players are looking far and wide for a steady supply of victims.  (originally a lot of Pirates were getting French abuse until we were "encouraged" to leave Cap Francais)

The "safe passage" thing doesn't click for me - apparently I missed that part of the thread

 

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)
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35 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Bill was French as French could be. While technically descended from Vikings that was 4 or 5 generations removed. There was no Saxon or Anglo blood in good ole Bill! That means every British port battle win is a win for France!

 

Wasn't the King kind of a german in the NA timeframe?  I have a hard time keeping track of all that stuff.

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)
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7 hours ago, Raekur said:

That is what I figured Koltes, but the only nation that is currently sailing such a long distance from a friendly port is France and the area I have seen them attacking invalidates the claims that they are attacking Britain because they are between them and the pirates

I assume you mean Sante Fe.

The short version is that you can death-teleport from the south side of Cuba to the north side, making Sante Fe (plus fleet perks) an easy way to get ships up to Cayo Romano and Las Tortugas, while also being a really annoying port for the Pirates to take from us. Trinidad would be better be we have no chance at that if the Pirates don't want us to have it.

ANYway, B.S.ing people about our intentions has never really been the Purge way. We are too old and forgetful for that and wouldn't remember which lie we told to who. Easier to just tell you the truth: we want Sante Fe so we can death-teleport north to kill pirates and to also have a somewhat more reasonable teleport home for econ and potentially as a fallback for some other conquests we could try elsewhere. I wouldn't take Sante Fe to kill Brits for the same reason I wouldn't take Nassau to kill pirates: it's too close and the offended party would just wipe us out of there. We know we can't defend ports so picking something that's closer than FR but also really inconvenient to attack is our best bet.

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Wow, what a post.

May I say, what I see was an open "here is our goals" take it or leave it?

It's a shame that the Moderators did not close this Post after it was posted so the only PM's or talk on TS continued.

I reached out to JD Shots from the Pirate clan [BLACK] ingame as I found out he is an Aussie.

That then, gave me a chance to hear some history about this server from the Pirates side.

There is always 3 sides to an opinion,.....yours, there's and Wisdom from a third party(cleaned it up for the week minded).

 

I really do love this game, but I'm sadden by the Trolling, Saltyness, Ego Inflating, Distrust etc.

With the Hardcore players from different nations stand up and become real leaders instead of personal agendas that are fruitless.

Get together and talk about the health of the game.

To my Nation, the US, we can't even Fleet 25 first rates with 5 knowledge slots open to a PB and we want to tell the Pirates that your agenda is no good for us, is just sad.

It would be better for the US to take back its Ports in he Gulf, from the GB Ex US players as I feel that the Hardcore Brits Tactically would of left it alone.

But what would and old professional man know?

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17 hours ago, Raekur said:

Koltes, my point was that BLACK wants to take ports from Britain and hand them over to other nations. My question is that what pressure does BLACK plan on putting on Britain to ensure that those ports remain in the hands of the nations they chose? Unless BLACK plans on becoming NATO and starts trying to dictate who does what where, I don't see the end game to BLACK's terms. In a nutshell, this is the first time I have seen BLACK attempt to control who gets what ports in regards to several regions and I think it is a mistake to attempt it for several reasons.

While Koltes and Black clan may believe that opening up the gulf to other nations to allow them build and in the long run make a more competitive server, what will actually happen is that the other nations that enter the gulf and the Brits and USA will end up scrapping against each other giving the Pirates more opportunity to rule to roost and dictate things on their terms.

The Pirates are not interested in the Gulf because they realize that they cannot hold all those ports and the current mechanics mean that they would lose points towards VM's, so they instead consolidate what they have and are able to defend and attack ports as necessary to ensure they stay top of the leaderboard. These are good tactics and what any nation should do to ensure they remain in control, but do not for one minute believe that they are doing it for the benefit of other nations.

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Aussie - As far as I know, the attack on the gulf was not the work on any of the mainline British clans but strictly the Ex-US pair of clans TF and VCO. It is stupidity like this that gives me insight to why there are some French that attack the British and others that prefer not to. No nation seems immune to the childish antics of a few clans contained within. The gulf is nothing more then a target generating area with only 2 exits that currently are patrolled by either pirates or pirate sympathizers. TF, VCO, and AUSEZ screwed Britain over by attacking the gulf and taking so many ports. It drew TOO much attention to the region and in turn gained absolutely nothing for Britain. There was not one benefit that was gained by Britain by that operation.

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5 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Aussie - As far as I know, the attack on the gulf was not the work on any of the mainline British clans but strictly the Ex-US pair of clans TF and VCO. It is stupidity like this that gives me insight to why there are some French that attack the British and others that prefer not to. No nation seems immune to the childish antics of a few clans contained within. The gulf is nothing more then a target generating area with only 2 exits that currently are patrolled by either pirates or pirate sympathizers. TF, VCO, and AUSEZ screwed Britain over by attacking the gulf and taking so many ports. It drew TOO much attention to the region and in turn gained absolutely nothing for Britain. There was not one benefit that was gained by Britain by that operation.

Wise, very wise comment indeed.

As I try to say to Anyone that has an EAR, its better to PM or talk One V One of there is a disagreement.

But like my general opinion was not to attack anyone but to inform and to help facilitate a healthy dialogue.

Thank you for you comment again.

Catch you on the seas.

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Ok Gentlemen,

I must inform you that at this stage unfortunately BLACK is NOT prepared to give up on Savanna La Mar.
We appreciate that you did the grind as we suggested in the original post, but at this stage and time we will have to defend it.
Didn't want to show up without giving you the heads up. So if you decide to fight you will be able to prepare.

We apologize for any inconvenience it might cause.

 

Edited by koltes
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27 minutes ago, koltes said:

Ok Gentlemen,

I must inform you that at this stage unfortunately BLACK is NOT prepared to give up on Savanna La Mar.
We appreciate that you did the grind as we suggested in the original post, but at this stage and time we will have to defend it.
Didn't want to show up without giving you the heads up. So if you decide to fight you will be able to prepare.
We apologize for any inconvenience it might cause.

A good thing. We'll soon wake up from hibernation 

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58 minutes ago, koltes said:

Ok Gentlemen,

I must inform you that at this stage unfortunately BLACK is NOT prepared to give up on Savanna La Mar.
We appreciate that you did the grind as we suggested in the original post, but at this stage and time we will have to defend it.
Didn't want to show up without giving you the heads up. So if you decide to fight you will be able to prepare.

We apologize for any inconvenience it might cause.

 

Sad, very sad.

All I can say is that less than 12 hrs to see what I might be able to do, and I assume that someone got upset from "Global Chat".

Seems like I'm a fool thinking that people actually did love this game and would try to save it as playing against 5 players from opposing nations must now be the norm for millennials these days.

Thats probably why the Devs are putting all their eggs into the NA Legends Basket.

No one wants to enjoy something long term unless they can stack the deck their own way.

 

Catch you guys on ARMA 3 again.

Dasvidanija

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