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Declaration of Victory and the Terms


Koltes

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Global server needs no police. Less amongst them the scourge of pyracy.

This ain't PvP-2 US, this is PvP Global.

Rise up United Nations and let them prove their words, walk the talk.

( more fun for everyone heh :) )

 

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My suggestion to the British:

Tell the pirates "NUTS!".

On one hand, I see the Pirates not wanting to break a nation and wanting to back off to give them time to recover. On the other hand, I find few things break morale so severely as being cowed into an agreement that mostly sucks and which you will have to carefully ponder when and how to break. This will lead to even more internal squabbling as some clans feel you're ready to break the agreement and go back to war and others feel you need more time in the bunker.

Don't do it, Brits. Start channeling some Winston Churchill, tell the Pirates you'll see them in hell and figure out how to fight. (You also don't want to be "the peaceful Brits" and invite a bunch of leeches into your nation, which was part of the problem to begin with. Be seen as fighters and you can attract fighters. And what are you doing on "PvP-Global" if you didn't come here to fight? Saddle up, build ships meant for PvP and start using them.)

More to the point, I think the game works best when it's a world at war.

Make the Pirates keep coming after you. The more you distract them, the more the US will have some freedom to attack the Pirates. The more the Pirates win, the more tempting they look for an attack by the French or maybe even the Dutch.

Absolute worst case, the Pirates crush you, crush the US and get the Danes (buffed by the Aussies) to night-flip French ports (with the Dutch either helping them or at least not helping you). Personally, though, that won't stop me from hunting people on the open sea, and I'd invite a chance to end our own agreement with the Danes and start sticking it to them as well (we'll see who can outflip who now that their little basic cutter trick has been fixed).

Give em hell, Brits.

Actually, learn how hell is given in this game and then give it to them.

I would be pleased to have more extensive conversations about how to give hell in these circumstances.

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13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Second time we didn't use any one....so again get your facts straight before you start to make false accusations.  We tagged a fleet.  As per why there wasn't a pirate vs pirate battle out side too. We aren't crying and running to post every time ya'll use the mechanics and using it as an excuse as to why we lost a very fair and straight up fight....oh wait cause we didn't lose the port battles or any fight we got into other than a few guys that got singled out.   Why is It every time ya'll get beat you stop fighting?   We heard so much smack talk about how VCO and TF wanted fair fights and how great they where and they wanted to show us how real port battles where.  IF they where so good they didn't need screeners and now we found out why they needed them.  

Now how exactly is 23 vs 25 easy pickings?   We where down two ships compared to them at PnP.  Brits had the forts and towers to help them too since our mortar brig didn't make it in.  To me sounds like we where just fine with the challenge of an uneven fight and how did it turn out?  8 Brit ships sunk and 1 captured with zero lost in the port battle on the pirate side.  So exactly how do we just want easy pickings again?  Sounds more like Brits only want easy pickings by using there numbers to pick off and split off a much smaller group than they have.  

 

 

And I didnt say it was BLACKs alt.  You assumed that, and you know what assuming does.

8 minutes ago, koltes said:

Hodo stop stirring the shit.
No it was not proven. The alt was pirate (which is what was proven hence why he got banned), but he did not belong to BLACK. In fact we never know about him until he got into that battle. We of course used it to our advantage which anyone would have.

You two should really talk to each other before posting.  Because you contradicted each other.

And no that Surprise was a DEA member, never heard of them.. must be another coat tail fanboi clan. 

Oh and I have been in several of the fights.  You just dont notice me because I am usually in a small ship.   I think the last few fights we have been in I have either been in the Snow, which sunk at PaP, then a Navy Brig which I detonated next to Sir Texas Sir.   Then the second PaP fight I was in my Privateer, where I assisted in the capture of several ships and sailed back to my FOB after the fleet was escorted out.

Lastly I didnt say using an ally to hide in a battle was an exploit, just an abuse of a broken game mechanic and cheap.  

 

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8 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I think the problem isn't how the battles started or where avoided it's more deeper than that with the clans and organization about why folks didn't show.   They can make up all the excuses they want but that won't fix the actual problems with the nations as a whole.

---Every PB forced into 25v25 against a enemy with better ships, more experience, and better teamwork.

-------Everyone loses ships because nothing else decides the PB besides that 25v25 which they'll lose every time.

-------------Everyone quits because there is no way around this.

"Won't fix the actual problems with the nations as a whole"

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) you guys

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HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!  in the spirit of the game Koltes relays the information from our Clan BLACK leaders to advise the BRITs our intentions, and it once again becomes a who is the biggest DRAMA QUEEN on the block...LOL you ladies kill me :P

Edited by Mike the Mongel
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24 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

---Every PB forced into 25v25 against a enemy with better ships, more experience, and better teamwork.

Well..... this is indeed a fault of the British: they do not seem to build PvP ships and then regularly go out hunting. The people with "more experience" are those who did this -- built or otherwise acquired appropriate PvP ships and went hunting.

Last night my group was x2 Cerb and x1 Surprise and we jumped x2 Pirate Frigates and x1 Surprise (pirate players).  They spent the whole fight trying to run away (two of them succeeded but one of the PFs got sunk. We lost nothing). I think they didn't have any repairs on them because they were just running missions. Just goes to show, sometimes you can win fights that don't look favorable. Don't know til ya try.

What I would like to see is the Brits try to shift focus for a bit. Start building:

Frames from fir, teak or bermuda cedar. Planking of teak, bermuda or white oak. Experiment.
Cerberus, Surprise, possibly Renommee as of the new patch. Cheap, good PvP ships.
Apply +speed figurehead (even after the nerf, 2% is better than nothing).
Go out solo if you have to but try to round up 2-5 players or so.
Hunt.

I really think a lot of players will be surprised at how NOT dangerous most PvP encounters are.

Do this for 3 weeks and Brits will have a lot of captains with a lot of practical PvP experience. I bet a lot of their clans are sitting on tons of materials that would easily make all the 5th rates they need.

If they're feeling ballsy they can try mixing in Connies, Endys and even Bellonas. But start with 5th rates and just go hunt. There is a lot of stuff out there they can find and kill with 3-5 Cerbs and Surprises.

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1 minute ago, Mike the Mongel said:

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!  in the spirit of the game Koltes relays the information from our leaders to advise the BRITs our intentions, and it once again becomes a who is the biggest DRAMA QUEEN on the block...LOL you ladies kill me :P

It is a war game. :) Nuts.

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5 hours ago, Scout said:

 

And for claiming victory after that we did ignore your port battles in spite of playing against exploiters is pathetic to say at best.

@Scout You ignore the port battles because you don't want to get your ships sank. Let's not forget that. If you dont want to fight in a port battle go to PvE or legends when ot comes. Don't be childish!

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Since the original intent of the thread is long lost, I might as well jump in on the screening debate. Without engaging in a debate about whether screening is good or bad (I don't care), let us discuss another question - is screening fun?

During our attack on PaP I was attacked by 17 British players. 5 of them stayed with me to capture my Agamemnon and the others left the battle for other prey. I gave them a hell of a time lasting more than 30 minutes, and employed lots of tricks to stay alive, keep my ship intact, and keep fighting. Without a doubt I can say that I'm a better fighter for having been ganked. But my problem is the 5 guys ganking me didn't seem like they were having fun.

This goes for the many other screener battles I have been in. In most of them the screeners did not have as favorable odds as the battle against my Agamemnon, and end up sinking en masse in store bought Frigates and Renomees. They may have won the day by delaying a PB, but they don't seem like they are having much fun either.

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That goes a long stretch in assuming how to measure fun.

To some it is indeed the 25v25 Trafalgar battles.

To others is duels.

To others is come what may, we took the day to battle whatever shape and form. 

- with proper decorum and brain usage of course not having to evade the inevitable.

(( Last gank I suffered was indeed right at the start of the session during CombatNews day, French version, against some combined dutch and brit squadron, also in a aggy, some 50 minutes later went down saber in hand. Done. Sail out with a Frigate, get back into combat. Keep it going. We know exactly how that session ended. We didn't evade, we kept at it with intent and purpose, with a plan that does not lend any favours to meta gaming but was a true display of "what you see is what you get" PvP. ))

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9 minutes ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

Since the original intent of the thread is long lost, I might as well jump in on the screening debate. Without engaging in a debate about whether screening is good or bad (I don't care), let us discuss another question - is screening fun?

During our attack on PaP I was attacked by 17 British players. 5 of them stayed with me to capture my Agamemnon and the others left the battle for other prey. I gave them a hell of a time lasting more than 30 minutes, and employed lots of tricks to stay alive, keep my ship intact, and keep fighting. Without a doubt I can say that I'm a better fighter for having been ganked. But my problem is the 5 guys ganking me didn't seem like they were having fun.

This goes for the many other screener battles I have been in. In most of them the screeners did not have as favorable odds as the battle against my Agamemnon, and end up sinking en masse in store bought Frigates and Renomees. They may have won the day by delaying a PB, but they don't seem like they are having much fun either.

The job of a screener is one of great sacrifice, but its the greatest honor one can serve to their nation.

The job of the screener is to go into battle with impossible odds, and do everything they can do damage/slow down the enemy so the main fleet has a better chance against the opposition.

No, its not very fun. Your entire screening force may sink while taking out but a few of the enemies ships. But those few few ships can be the difference between a won and lost port.

This is why screening is so important, without it there is no such thing as defensive advantage. No regional logistics matters when the battle is only dependent on 25 of the perhaps 100 players who have come out to help defend the port. Without screening every 26+ man defending a port is useless. 

Imagine if there were 300 people per nation, but only 25 could actually do anything to defend the capital port? RVR would be a hopelessly tragic and boring affair

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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I think we are in agreement.

Since the port battle time is so rigidly set, most captains will find it easier to delay an attacking force than defeat it. In the current system, once the attackers are "late to their own party," they can't have a PB. As it stands, the job of the screener is not to defeat the enemy force in a glorious battle.

I would love to have a screening battle or five and then conquer your region.

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The Pirate offer is noble but in general peace is bad for a war game. People get bored when there is nothing to do. The Pirates don't need a deal to not crush someone. They can just not do it. The game would end up better if people just fought and let the game play itself out.

We can't help NA build a better game if we don't just go at it without mercy.

If NA is any good the Pirates are eventually going to run into the same problems as everyone else. We have an obligation to NA to test the limits of there product without players trying to do it for them. If any team can crush another it should. That way NA and its players learns some lessons from it.

This game will lose more players from boredom then they ever will from defeat.

Edited by Vllad
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I think people look at the Port Battle itself as 'the battle'.  It might be helpful to look at the ENTIRE engagement including pre-Port Battle Screening, the Port Battle itself and the post-Port Battle OW maneuvering as multiple phases of 'the battle'

Each phase contributes to the broader RVR effort in that not only are you impacting the likelihood of success or failure on that specific Port Battle but you are also impacting morale on both sides (GB and US are perfect examples of the truth in this part) that affect future engagements & port battles both with respect to their will to fight (see previous point) as well as attriting the enemy port battle fleets by sinking/capturing them outside the port (see recent French vs GB action at Santa Marta).

You may view the pre-/post- Port Battle engagements as 'nuisances' but they are both significant in the broader RVR context.

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To all British nation players I would say tell the Pirates to do their worst, tell them to go swivel. They cannot afford to take all the regions as they cannot defend them. All they are trying to do is dictate the map on their terms leaving other nations scrabbling round for crumbs off their table. They want you to rebuild only so they can beat you down again once you start getting strong again. And in the end if you did turn the tables they would say, well we could have one regioned you but........

How many PB's can they contest at the same time? If they take more ports they leave themselves exposed. The offer of SLM to improve morale is pitiful, they know most of the nation have moved out of that area anyway, thats why they want to keep Portobello, so they can harass you at their leisure, same way as they are doing to the USA by holding Georgia.

Most of them prefer to do solo raiding anyway, so leaving the Brits with quite a few ports gives them plenty of targets and they can still claim that Britain is the largest nation and they need everyone to not do deals with them. If they reduce the Brits to one region then it will become obvious where the power on the server is and they lose all their excuses and leave themselves open to being ganged up on.

The only terms acceptable to a Pirate is the noose and gibbet, let them swing at the entrance of Port Royale.

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1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

The job of a screener is one of great sacrifice, but its the greatest honor one can serve to their nation.

The job of the screener is to go into battle with impossible odds, and do everything they can do damage/slow down the enemy so the main fleet has a better chance against the opposition.

No, its not very fun. Your entire screening force may sink while taking out but a few of the enemies ships. But those few few ships can be the difference between a won and lost port.

This is why screening is so important, without it there is no such thing as defensive advantage. No regional logistics matters when the battle is only dependent on 25 of the perhaps 100 players who have come out to help defend the port. Without screening every 26+ man defending a port is useless. 

Imagine if there were 300 people per nation, but only 25 could actually do anything to defend the capital port? RVR would be a hopelessly tragic and boring affair

I am in it for the fights. If the port battle fleet is successfully screened in the new system, it means that the defender brought enough people to truly engage up the attackers, as opposed to splitting them off into different battles artificially. This is a win for everyone, as the attackers will get a real fight and defenders may keep their port or weaken the attackers for subsequent fighting.

When my group was screened at PaP the first time, the Brits in battle were ecstatic about how they would not have to fight us, and could simply split us off and tag sails from a distance. I know this because they said so to us in the battle; this attitude is the problem.

The devs and playerbase were clearly unhappy with this style of screening, made changes to RoE (circle on the defender) and now there is no need for anyone who wants a fight to hide.  I only gained skill myself by engaging in a variety of battles, not all of which I won, but all of which I fought if there was any chance of victory or fame.

I would like to see GB come out again and try to screen port battles, as they will get fights, perhaps keep their ports, and gain skill (even if they sink) by participating in a real, large, engagements. In short, screening is completely valid as long as you bring enough BR to tag the PB group and a willingness to fight.

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7 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

You'll get back Savannah when you can take it. This is good for your nation. It'll make you tougher like spinach. 

Currently because the pirates hold Savannah, and raid Charleston on a nightly basis, new player retention has fell to near Zero, so all of your grand gestures of offering ports on the west coast of Florida are Mute, in that new players can are not even given an option to learn the game well enough to be willing to invest in joining a clan or choosing to learn how to bolster the US defense,

  Most new players opt to not join a clan until they get their feet wet, and understand the game a little, but repeatedly getting sunk by Pirates, is simply seen as a recruiting tool for Pirates, since most of the US nations newest players after getting sunk several times, simply decide to join the nation that is sinking them, so as to avoid that pain in the future,

 

8 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Just to let you know Kanay if you come pirate(and this goes for everyone else that gets the bright idea to go pirate for victory marks) we will kill you every time we see you. Same goes for anyone else that swaps without our approval. God it's good to be a pirate 😎

This threat holds no weight other than to run off any new US player that is sick of getting sunk out front of Charleston before they have even had a chance to learn the game, and new players will not scour the forums to learn of your threat before they go Pirate, your attitude is effective at killing new player retention, congrats!

 

US has very few Veteran players relative to the other nations at this point, and currently find recruiting new veteran players beyond difficult, Since you find it amusing to continue clubbing baby Seals,

 Once again, Congrats on ruining your own fun by creating a diminished server population through your own actions,

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

But this post has nothing to do about battle mechanics used by either side. It's about lost of ports and offering terms to not total crush a nation and it's player base.

This is complete and utter BS,

if the Pirates cared about the health of the US nation, they would leave Savannah, so that the US nation could retain some new players, and hopefully raise them into veteran players that would potentially put up a decent defense,

But instead the Pirates prefer to Club Baby Seals, and Thus inadvertently recruit these new US players into the Pirate nation,

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Just now, Trouble said:

This is complete and utter BS,

if the Pirates cared about the health of the US nation, they would leave Savannah, so that the US nation could retain some new players, and hopefully raise them into veteran players that would potentially put up a decent defense,

But instead the Pirates prefer to Club Baby Seals, and Thus inadvertently recruit these new US players into the Pirate nation,

More like if devs cared about US health, they'd return Savannah back from the exploit.

If the pirates had integrity they'd leave Savannah, come back and take the port properly

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I look at it as i see it, an insult and thus I must respond in my usual manner

We will be in a small period of reorganization and hostility will be resumed by all as soon as the clue is found and a leader emerges

 

Until such time, see ya on the seas

 

hilts , levelling slowly, learnign even slower :P

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