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Declaration of Victory and the Terms


Koltes

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11 minutes ago, Scout said:

Think this post is has had it few laps and is way out of original topic.

Recommend this fourm battle will be set to close this is nothing more than harassment back and forth now.    

7 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

The original poster even asked this for the very same reason that it turned into nothing more than just a sling fest and by folks that aren't even in the nations of the original content involved.

Doesn't help the moderators even jumped in on the mud slinging which is why most of us don't trust them to be unbias any more.

There is nothing to close, the mud slinging will just jump to a new post or further into the forums.

Either you're all in and go with the drama or don't read this post anymore. :P

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1 minute ago, Skully said:

There is nothing to close, the mud slinging will just jump to a new post or further into the forums.

Either you're all in and go with the drama or don't read this post anymore. :P

I personally don't give a crap if folks just keep the false accusation without proof out of it on all sides.   I think a little mud slinging is fun to be honest, but some times I think half the server needs to be in ignore for a week or turn off global too and it would be such a boring but much more silent place........did I say boring?

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I personally don't give a crap if folks just keep the false accusation without proof out of it on all sides.   I think a little mud slinging is fun to be honest, but some times I think half the server needs to be in ignore for a week or turn off global too and it would be such a boring but much more silent place........did I say boring?

Talk about "false accusations without proof" you just wrote 6 paragraphs on how the mods are bias, use game exploits, and abuse their powers

The same exploits the pirates routinely defend and have employed with pride.

what a joke, get over yourselves:rolleyes:

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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7 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

Having a green name isn't under my control.  Mod powers mean green name.  However, this is the second time I've been accused of exploits in two days, and The Red Duke was yesterday as well.  All by pirates.  However, BLACK should know better.

@koltes, @Sir Texas Sir, care to weigh in on this?

Playing the game? I dont know. You are just a hunter like myself. Don't worry about it.

As for your usage of Mod's powers I might only say the lack of it. As per our PM conversation lots of accusations towards myself or BLACK in global are ignored though rules clearly says these actions should be banable. You have called it that someone had a bad day. This might be so, but hardly an excuse to make other 10 people day bad. That's why there should be 3 hour chat ban. If he has a bad day, he needs to go and cool off. You guys let the trolls do whatever they like.

I agree with Texas when he said that you pulling your Mod card when it suits you, not the game or community.

I had to stop my guys from trolling on Global on number of occasions. Mod in my view is someone who says the warning (even to his own clan mate) and then ban them for 3 hours to cool off which I would do to anyone who deserved it no matter personal relationship. You dont like being accused of some exploits and so we are. But only you has some tools to do something about it. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you could do a better job since you asked. I personally have a problem with few individuals that been going off in global: a). Trolling; b). Abusing of exploits; c). Abusing of cheating; d). Swearing.

If the only thing you ban people is for racism or sexism than its pretty clear to me that the global needs to go. You are just too busy playing and have no time to moderate it.

Its hard work man, I get it. But it needs to be done. When people see that these mods mean business your Global will become cleaner place.

I also agree with Texas (which is not your fault) that the moderating should be granted to another account that is given to you free of charge. You would use it to do all your mods business only. Your playing account should be just your playing account.

 

6 hours ago, Khyron said:

...Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but when I lose a ship, or get jumped, or in a PVP... if I loose, i'm just as happy as when I win, i learn and don't make the mistake again...

GG! GG indeed. was a lot of fun, i was able to spectate and see how everyone handled their ships, the fighting formations, and the strats used.. learned a lot...

This is what the game should be... after the fight, there was compliments... GG's all around, and friendly jabs... we can all play and be civil and have fun... it showed me a glimmer of hope for this game. The toxic stuff needs to stop, and we need to have more fun gentlemen... see you at sea!

I totally agree with you. Thats how most of my fights are. In a rare engagement I might meet a troll or a smack talker and it really serves no one.

Edited by koltes
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So, two things:  The only "mod powers" any mod has is the ability to chat ban, and having a green name.  Full stop.

The accusations of exploits that BLACK members complain about:  There was a tribunal.  BLACK members used a fight with a pirate alt (I do not know whose) to evade a screening fleet.  The alt was banned for two weeks, if memory serves.  The alts actions did not happen in isolation.  As such, as near as I can tell, BLACK members participating were guilty as well, but not to enough of a threshold as to merit mass punishment.

Until I am convinced otherwise, my reading of the situation is that the accusations of BLACK exploiting to take Savana are founded.

Being non-biased doesn't mean agreeing with someone half the time and someone else the other half of the time.  It means looking at things on a case by case basis, and not letting prior experience come into account.  I try very hard to do that.  Koltes and I, I think, have a good relationship.  Believe it or not, I actually recommend people to BLACK, and commend BLACK for its organization.

As far as I know, the only time I bring up the issue of Savana is when you do first.  To me, it is water under the bridge.  I have long since moved on, and I hope you would too.

However, I can see that any respect I have for BLACK is not reciprocated - by members or by leadership.

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1 hour ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

So, two things:  The only "mod powers" any mod has is the ability to chat ban, and having a green name.  Full stop.

The accusations of exploits that BLACK members complain about:  There was a tribunal.  BLACK members used a fight with a pirate alt (I do not know whose) to evade a screening fleet.  The alt was banned for two weeks, if memory serves.  The alts actions did not happen in isolation.  As such, as near as I can tell, BLACK members participating were guilty as well, but not to enough of a threshold as to merit mass punishment.

Until I am convinced otherwise, my reading of the situation is that the accusations of BLACK exploiting to take Savana are founded.

Being non-biased doesn't mean agreeing with someone half the time and someone else the other half of the time.  It means looking at things on a case by case basis, and not letting prior experience come into account.  I try very hard to do that.  Koltes and I, I think, have a good relationship.  Believe it or not, I actually recommend people to BLACK, and commend BLACK for its organization.

As far as I know, the only time I bring up the issue of Savana is when you do first.  To me, it is water under the bridge.  I have long since moved on, and I hope you would too.

However, I can see that any respect I have for BLACK is not reciprocated - by members or by leadership.

Mate, I respect you in every aspect I can think of. You know that. It shows in our conversations. Do you cheat? Nope. I do not believe you do. Do you use exploits? I dont know and I also dont care. Exploit means bad game mechanic and using it to your advantage is always going to be present as its all fair in love and war. Did you use anything that is specifically prohibited by the rules? No, I don't think so.

I will talk to our boys. We don't want to be known for pointing finger like the nationals do all the time, that's for sure.

One thing for you to note, that in regards Savanna it is no matter what you or anyone else feels like. It is what it is and BLACK involvement in setting up the exploit is NOT proven. What you think or believe is your own right. We used it to our advantage when we realized the alt was on our side, but we have not set it up.
"Truth is not what you want it to be. It is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie." No one can ever prove that it was BLACK's setup, because it wasn't and bringing this up over and over I see as offensive action. Rules says - can't prove - do not accuse.

Despite your personal believes you allow people to keep accusing us of cheating.
When someone accused you of cheating you did not like it right? Why should we? We fight legitimately and we win or lose legitimately. We used to be called cheaters for good 6 months by nationals sinking them in one broadside simply because they did not understand leaking mechanics. Did they truly believed in their accusations? Yes. Were they right about it? Nope.

Same as you right now. You didn't like being accused didn't you? Being moderator you should stop this and actually moderate. Your personal opinion on the subject is not matter. Only what the law and rules says and if your policing the forums / chat your job is to enforce the rules. 
My opinion man 
 

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44 minutes ago, koltes said:


One thing for you to note, that in regards Savanna it is no matter what you or anyone else feels like. It is what it is and BLACK involvement in setting up the exploit is NOT proven. What you think or believe is your own right. We used it to our advantage when we realized the alt was on our side
 

 

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I hear where you're coming from, but the thing is, you're relying on an interpretation of exploit as "BLACK wasn't punished, and you can't tie BLACK to the exploit."  It's like robbing a bank.  Maybe someone else cracked the safe, but it was BLACK that made off with the money.

It's a very hard sell to me to pretend like BLACK is innocent in that case, when a team that is notoriously light on punishment banned someone involved for two weeks.

I get that BLACK wants to feel innocent on this, but... you can't make the truth what you want it to be either.  

I moved past it, however.  BLACK and the rest of the community cannot, it seems, because BLACK won't say, simply, "It was a mistake we regret and we are not like those people."  If the best you can offer is, "Technically, BLACK wasn't punished," well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to silence your critics for you.

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31 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I hear where you're coming from, but the thing is, you're relying on an interpretation of exploit as "BLACK wasn't punished, and you can't tie BLACK to the exploit."  It's like robbing a bank.  Maybe someone else cracked the safe, but it was BLACK that made off with the money.

It's a very hard sell to me to pretend like BLACK is innocent in that case, when a team that is notoriously light on punishment banned someone involved for two weeks.

I get that BLACK wants to feel innocent on this, but... you can't make the truth what you want it to be either.  

I moved past it, however.  BLACK and the rest of the community cannot, it seems, because BLACK won't say, simply, "It was a mistake we regret and we are not like those people."  If the best you can offer is, "Technically, BLACK wasn't punished," well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to silence your critics for you.

Exactly this. Couldn't have said it better.

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38 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I hear where you're coming from, but the thing is, you're relying on an interpretation of exploit as "BLACK wasn't punished, and you can't tie BLACK to the exploit."  It's like robbing a bank.  Maybe someone else cracked the safe, but it was BLACK that made off with the money.

It's a very hard sell to me to pretend like BLACK is innocent in that case, when a team that is notoriously light on punishment banned someone involved for two weeks.

I get that BLACK wants to feel innocent on this, but... you can't make the truth what you want it to be either.  

I moved past it, however.  BLACK and the rest of the community cannot, it seems, because BLACK won't say, simply, "It was a mistake we regret and we are not like those people."  If the best you can offer is, "Technically, BLACK wasn't punished," well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to silence your critics for you.

^^^^^^

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48 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I hear where you're coming from, but the thing is, you're relying on an interpretation of exploit as "BLACK wasn't punished, and you can't tie BLACK to the exploit."  It's like robbing a bank.  Maybe someone else cracked the safe, but it was BLACK that made off with the money.

It's a very hard sell to me to pretend like BLACK is innocent in that case, when a team that is notoriously light on punishment banned someone involved for two weeks.

I get that BLACK wants to feel innocent on this, but... you can't make the truth what you want it to be either.  

I moved past it, however.  BLACK and the rest of the community cannot, it seems, because BLACK won't say, simply, "It was a mistake we regret and we are not like those people."  If the best you can offer is, "Technically, BLACK wasn't punished," well, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to silence your critics for you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6

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18 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

Nor do I want people bandwagoning on BLACK.  Fight against them.  Sink their ships.  Capture their traders.  Move on.  Forgive mistakes, and better the community.

If you needed any proof that Iroq isn't bias and wants best for the game here it is

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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And some people don't understand why we PvE players want  nothing to do w/ PvP.... :rolleyes:

 

A suggestion to Dev's: Make the Admiralty cost to do anything an inverse function of the total battle ratings of each country.  Add something similar for number of ports too if that is worthwhile.  Have the Admiralty contribute crafted materials with costs per those functions.  It would do wonders for helping those kicked in the teeth to rebuild and fight back.

Consider excluding Pirates from the above.  Being criminals they have no central government to help them.

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4 hours ago, koltes said:

One thing for you to note, that in regards Savanna it is no matter what you or anyone else feels like. It is what it is and BLACK involvement in setting up the exploit is NOT proven. What you think or believe is your own right. We used it to our advantage when we realized the alt was on our side, but we have not set it up.
"Truth is not what you want it to be. It is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie." No one can ever prove that it was BLACK's setup, because it wasn't and bringing this up over and over I see as offensive action. Rules says - can't prove - do not accuse.

If rules were followed by the Tribunal, then yes I would agree. This is however not the case as I have proven with my recent Tribunals and when I prosecuted Naval Action in an EU Justice Department case.

In effect this has made the Tribunal part of the end-game of Naval Action. (Which may or may not be a bad thing. :D Personally I consider it a bad thing, because I don't expect a lot of folks to have the skills for it. :P)

And thus it turns back to:

On 7/21/2017 at 10:24 PM, Skully said:

A question, when is BLACK going to realize nobody wants to fight you on your terms?

I think everybody else already knows you won't fight on their terms. :lol:

And believe it or not, but admin is fully aware of the problem:

On 3/16/2017 at 11:26 AM, admin said:

If the game does not give you a fair ground you will consider the game unfair and will not participate.

So it boils down to agreeing, or conceding, what constitutes fair grounds.

The game can do nothing in this regard. And I would go as far as saying, having the game force people into PvP has only produced adverse results.

If you see an advantage for your side, then bring up the counter yourself. If you see no counter, then it is broken. (And sometimes you have to experience the counter to see whether it is even viable.)

Choice, enticements and trade-offs are the way to go, not enforcement.

PS. There is a matter to settle though. ^_^

 

Edited by Skully
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10 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm hoping the French do make this a regular thing and we can get some good fights out of it, but I'm also not impressed with there bragging when they clearly knew most of our fleets was up in Bermuda or in the Gulf the last few nights doing other things and than brag about smashing lesser clan/players.

Well I guess they could have opened a thread on the forums claiming victory and giving terms.

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9 minutes ago, Skully said:

If rules were followed by the Tribunal, then yes I would agree. This is however not the case as I have proven with my recent Tribunals and when I prosecuted Naval Action in an EU Justice Department case.

In effect this has made the Tribunal part of the end-game of Naval Action. (Which may or may not be a bad thing. :D Personally I consider it a bad thing, because I don't expect a lot of folks to have the skills for it. :P)

And thus it turns back to:

And believe it or not, but admin is fully aware of the problem:

So it boils down to agreeing, or conceding, what constitutes fair grounds.

The game can do nothing in this regard. And I would go as far as saying, having the game force people into PvP has only produced adverse results.

If you see an advantage for your side, then bring up the counter yourself. If you see no counter, then it is broken. (And sometimes you have to experience the counter to see whether it is even viable.)

Choice, enticements and trade-offs are the way to go, not enforcement.

PS. There is a matter to settle though. ^_^

 

Since you and I both agree that the developers seem to be allowing the Black clan to use exploits at every opportunity, maybe the developers have simply chosen to let this game die off, and do not expect it to succeed, since if the developers felt otherwise they would dole out appropriate punishments, for exploits and Alts etc...

Yesterday the US nation had a new Pirate alt of "Stuck in Irons Badger" trolling the US nation chat on his new alt "Sir Salt" for hours, making US nation chat completely pointless, as he parked his basic cutter out front of Charleston and reported US player positions to the Pirate's as he trolled US Nation chat...

Unless the developers can figure out a way to keep one persons Alt from disrupting an entire nations chat, this game will become completely untenable!

 

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1 minute ago, Trouble said:

Since you and I both agree that the developers seem to be allowing the Black clan to use exploits at every opportunity, maybe the developers have simply chosen to let this game die off, and do not expect it to succeed, since if the developers felt otherwise they would dole out appropriate punishments, for exploits and Alts etc...

No, I do not agree. We are in alpha, exploits need to be identified and brought to light.

Let the devs speak for themselves.

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5 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Yesterday the US nation had a new Pirate alt of "Stuck in Irons Badger" trolling the US nation chat on his new alt "Sir Salt" for hours, making US nation chat completely pointless, as he parked his basic cutter out front of Charleston and reported US player positions to the Pirate's as he trolled US Nation chat...

Unless the developers can figure out a way to keep one persons Alt from disrupting an entire nations chat, this game will become completely untenable!

Use in game report and ignore functions.

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6 minutes ago, Skully said:

No, I do not agree. We are in alpha, exploits need to be identified and brought to light.

Let the devs speak for themselves.

Although I do agree to a certain extent what you say here, I think the bigger issue should be getting people to agree what are bad game mechanics so that these mechanics can be removed from the game, rather than a tribunal having to review evidence and rule on a case by case basis.

With regards to the use of outlaw battles or alt/NPC battles to enable a PB fleet avoid screeners, I wish people would admit this is a bad mechanic rather than try and justify the use of it, whether it has been deemed to be within the rules of the game or not. The same applies to the screening fleet being there purely to tag and kite the PB fleet. These sort of game mechanics need to be fixed and not just left to the players to agree not to use them, because if left to the players you can be sure immediately one side is on the back foot they will use these mechanics to their advantage and the whole argument resumes.

The Pirates justify their use of outlaw battles to enter port battles because they were sick of the screen tactic of tag and run. They feel now that with the new battle group mechanic they do not have to do this anymore, but I can assure you if they really wanted a port and could not guarantee getting their PB fleet through the screen, they would use this mechanic again. The same applies to the tag and run mechanic, people will find a way within the mechanic to tag the PB fleet and still run without any intention to fight.

We are here to test a game and find flaws in the game mechanics, so why do so many people keep defending things that they know are poor mechanics.

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20 minutes ago, Skully said:

Use in game report and ignore functions.

Just because I can ignore this person does not stop every other member of the US Nation from witnessing there Bile, and unlike the Pirates that have an ability to sink on offensive individual, the US nation does not, so we are stuck with a Pirate alt sitting out front of our capital, spewing Bile on our Nation chat, while reporting US player positions to the pirates,

Don't really see how my ignoring of this player solves anything...

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6 hours ago, Trouble said:

Since you and I both agree that the developers seem to be allowing the Black clan to use exploits at every opportunity, maybe the developers have simply chosen to let this game die off, and do not expect it to succeed, since if the developers felt otherwise they would dole out appropriate punishments, for exploits and Alts etc...

Yesterday the US nation had a new Pirate alt of "Stuck in Irons Badger" trolling the US nation chat on his new alt "Sir Salt" for hours, making US nation chat completely pointless, as he parked his basic cutter out front of Charleston and reported US player positions to the Pirate's as he trolled US Nation chat...

Unless the developers can figure out a way to keep one persons Alt from disrupting an entire nations chat, this game will become completely untenable!

 

Are you talking about me? Do you have any proof of this? More accusations from a dying nation! I find this simply offensive and I am going to report you for this abuse! You have no evidence to back up what you are saying. I think that is a punishable offence. I am flattered that the US still thinks I can repeatedly control them through my words, but I have been in US nation chat since I left. I guess I am still a legend over there ehh? You guys still talk about me no-stop it seems, but I don't give a flying rats ass about the US nation. We are now focused on other people that WILL give us fights. Have you been attacked by BLACK or BLOOD since this "so called alt" has been around? NO!!!! NO!!! You havent, it could be an alt from another nation for all you know.!Your words and no evidence to back it up about this guy reporting US positions is just a way of you and the rest of the Nation to sleep better at night. No one cares about the East coast anymore! Get a life!

Edited by HoneyBaddger
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