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Slamz

What should tag range translate to in battle?

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tl;dr: I think if you tag someone at the edge of your tag circle, it should put you at about 650 yards away -- within Control range.

Now that revenge fleets are a thing of the past, that initial tag is very important.

Currently, an edge-of-the-circle tag translates to what must be something like 1500 yards in the battle. It's really far away. Tagging can be used to grief people like this because they can tag you from a range where even a slow ship can just sail away and escape before anyone can get in realistic cannon range.

What if we kept everything the same -- OW tag circle size does not change -- but the translation to the battle map is such that the edge of the circle puts you about 650 yards away. This is realistic cannon tag range and also puts the target in Control range. If you are faster than they are, this means a tag is a guaranteed fight.

This means any OW tag is Serious Business.

If they get away then it's Warp Speed, Mr. Sulu and they're probably gone but to make up for this, there will be no more really lame tags.

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I agree... it seems odd that OW visual range is 19-20miles.  Yet the tag circle is NO where near that size, but if someone is BARELY in the edge of the circle they are about 3miles away to start.   

The tag circle doesnt look to be 1/6th of the size of the visual range of the ship?

 

 

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I know most of you can't relate since your not Pirate, but when you tag some one Pirate vs Pirate you are very close to each other in relationship to the tag in open world and than folks can join at /ANY POINT/ from that center point.  I love this but I get the two circle thing is to prevent gank squads and such, but the main thing is that when I tag a ship it's next to me in rage of my cannons from the start of the tag.  NOT at almost max range.  The Player vs Player tags though puts ships some times unless you where right on top of the a good long distance way that your prob not going to catch them if they are a maxed out speed fit ship.  Specially if it's a Surprise with 4 super laser beam cannons compared to your inaccurate bow guns.    

That is the other thing accuracy on aft guns need to be brought back to the same as any other guns on your ship.  With all these speed ships we don't need super accurate laser stern guns.

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They aren't tougher.  The defensive tagger spams attacks as you come in and out of range so that you can never get close even if you are faster.  If you do close in you are out 1000-1500 meters with no chance of getting into combat range, so it is a waste of time, a free fast invisibility mode for the defensive tagger, and immunity.

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4 hours ago, Prater said:

They aren't tougher.  The defensive tagger spams attacks as you come in and out of range so that you can never get close even if you are faster.  If you do close in you are out 1000-1500 meters with no chance of getting into combat range, so it is a waste of time, a free fast invisibility mode for the defensive tagger, and immunity.

The defensive tag solution is simple, just offset the tag circle so there is a bigger range ahead of the vessel tagging and less behind it. That way if someone running away defensive tags the attacker is close enough to have them in control range.

As to the OP I am not so sure it is a good idea. If it was implemented then everyone would equip control perk. You have to give the defender some chance to get away. The OW horizon is around 20 miles so a ship concerned about being intercepted would start running immediately they see a ship on the horizon, due to the accelerated OW speeds the speed difference between vessels is magnified in OW and hence the OW distance can be closed very quickly. If the instance translation of an edge of tag circle tag was within control range then every tag would be a guaranteed battle and you can forget any sort of escape.

A good attacker does not tag at the edge of the circle they wait and calculate where the best relative position would be for them to ensure their prey cannot escape. The prey on the other hand tries to maneuver to have the attacker in the worst position. As I see it the only problem is the defensive tag and that can be solved as I mentioned earlier. Let there be some skill in making a good tag. 

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13 hours ago, Archaos said:

As to the OP I am not so sure it is a good idea. If it was implemented then everyone would equip control perk. You have to give the defender some chance to get away.

Control perk is 3 points. I have it but I had to give up two other perks to get it. I actually only have 4 perks now (all points spent).

Defender's chance to get away is:

* Sail a better point of sail
* Chain down the people trying to catch him
* Be a faster ship
* Kill everyone
* "Boom and zoom". (This works a lot, really. Move in to attack, fight them and look for a chance where they're all discombobulated and pick that moment to start running. By the time they get reoriented I have some distance and hopefully I got their sails down while repping my own just as I accelerated away.)

I see no reason any tagger vs tagee battle should ever start outside of cannon range. Makes no sense and really just amounts to time griefing, intentionally or not.

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2 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Control perk is 3 points. I have it but I had to give up two other perks to get it. I actually only have 4 perks now (all points spent).

Defender's chance to get away is:

* Sail a better point of sail
* Chain down the people trying to catch him
* Be a faster ship
* Kill everyone
* "Boom and zoom". (This works a lot, really. Move in to attack, fight them and look for a chance where they're all discombobulated and pick that moment to start running. By the time they get reoriented I have some distance and hopefully I got their sails down while repping my own just as I accelerated away.)

I see no reason any tagger vs tagee battle should ever start outside of cannon range. Makes no sense and really just amounts to time griefing, intentionally or not.

Sorry it may work for fighting ships but it would give traders no chance at all. A traders best hope is to force you into a bad tag. At present this is by using the defensive tag, but if that was sorted out like I proposed they would have to maneuver to force the bad tag.

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Just now, Archaos said:

Sorry it may work for fighting ships but it would give traders no chance at all.

Good.

Run traders at your own risk. Forcing someone into a "bad tag" is stupid. Your trader is slow and alone? You should get killed and exploiting broken tag ranges is just gaming the game.

When I run a trader, I am either running a fully armed Indiaman in fleet with my warship or I am running two fully armed Indiaman and taking my chances.

You won't see me out there in x3 Trader Brigs because that often is, and always should be, a death sentence if anyone sees you doing it.

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Tag at gun range. If your trader has longs and the other mediums, you get lucky.

 

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On 7/21/2017 at 2:05 PM, Archaos said:

Sorry it may work for fighting ships but it would give traders no chance at all. A traders best hope is to force you into a bad tag. At present this is by using the defensive tag, but if that was sorted out like I proposed they would have to maneuver to force the bad tag.

If traders are slower, they shouldn't get away unless they can fight off the enemy or the enemy messes up.  I've had traders fight me off now that they have guns.

Control should basically be how the game is, it shouldn't even be a perk.

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On 7/23/2017 at 7:59 AM, Skully said:

Tag at gun range.

Gun range is hard to define though. And the edge of gun range would not be very practical for the attacker.

Really I think the assumption should be that if you got tagged in the open sea then it's because a battle has started and the attacker and defender must start in "combat range" which I would set to be no further than like a range of 500. I mean we don't have to put them in carronade range but they should at least be in range for a medium cannon chainshot barrage.

Either that or the "cannot leave" timer at the start of the fight needs to be set to 5 minutes, to give the attacker a chance to close.

 

Mostly it's just lame when a battle instance results in no shots fired at all due to extreme ranges.

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At what range did the warning shot of a warship happened IRL in relation to a closing ship ( disregard of it would result in battle ) ? Pretty sure I came across the proper protocol somewhere.

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