Should PvP be a more viable way to unlock ship slots?

[Slamz]

tl;dr: should PvP be a good way to unlock ship knowledge slots or should that mainly be something you need to PvE grind for?

I like to PvP a lot and really have not done a hard PvE grind since the end of the Pirate-Dane war.

I feel like I probably sink more player ships than 95% of the server. I've been at least appearing on the PvP board each night (though really that just means I find 1-2 people to kill and get kill credit for. My "95%" figure is really because I think 95% of the server sinks no one at all on an average night and the kill board generally supports this). It kind of grinds my gears, though, to realize that if I want more ship knowledge slots then realistically I need to go grind more NPCs. It will take months of PvP to unlock slots because it just takes a long time to find people to kill (and then usually a lengthy battle to kill them).

We currently get double xp but double xp for kills that are probably literally 20x more time consuming in terms of finding them and killing them means PvPers will always be way behind the curve.

I really could argue either way on this issue, though:

A. It really should be something you PvE grind for.

PvE plays an important role in this game and some things must be accomplished via PvE and ship knowledge slots is just one of those things. Go do more port flips, noob, and use a tanked out version of your favorite PvP ship to do it. You want to PvP in a Surprise? Well go grind missions or contention in an LO/WO Surprise and get a bunch of quick XP that way.

B. It should be something PvPers can realistically get too.

I do feel we should address the exploitability of this but there must be a reasonable way to make PvPers get more knowledge unlock XP. Like maybe there's a grade:
Sink any storebought ship: no bonus
Sink any 6th rate or below: no bonus
Sink any custom built 5th rate: bonus ship knowledge XP based on BR
Sink any ship that costs combat marks to build: extra bonus
Sink any ship that costs victory marks to build: extra extra bonus

So a PvPer sinking traders, Mercuries and storebought Cerbs gets little or no bonus ship knowledge.
But a PvPer who manages to sink a couple of custom Constitutions gets a pretty sizable amount of bonus ship knowledge.

It can still be "exploited" -- let me build you a Connie and then let me sink it -- but at least it's expensive...?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Slamz

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I do agree with you that pvp should give you bonuses towards unlocking knowledge slots. Still keep the pve as a means but no bonus. Trade ships are another story as well where no bonus should be given.

[William Death]

45 minutes ago, Slamz said:

B. It should be something PvPers can realistically get too.

I do feel we should address the exploitability of this but there must be a reasonable way to make PvPers get more knowledge unlock XP. Like maybe there's a grade:
Sink any storebought ship: no bonus
Sink any 6th rate or below: no bonus
Sink any custom built 5th rate: bonus ship knowledge XP based on BR
Sink any ship that costs combat marks to build: extra bonus
Sink any ship that costs victory marks to build: extra extra bonus

So a PvPer sinking traders, Mercuries and storebought Cerbs gets little or no bonus ship knowledge.
But a PvPer who manages to sink a couple of custom Constitutions gets a pretty sizable amount of bonus ship knowledge.

This is a great idea. 

But to clarify, sinking the NPC ships would still be a viable way for one to open up slots should they want to do it that way, but going out and doing PvP against decent ships would give an extra bonus for slots. If that is what you propose, than yes I think it would be loads better than our current system. 

Furthermore, I think that in PvP, captures ought to count for some ship slot XP, since you oftentimes do 90% of the work that sinking the ship is (think, demasting the opponent, stern rakes, graping, boarding). However, this would have to be carefully worked in, so as to prevent easy exploits.

[Cimbi]

Why don't just remove it.Seriously, why is so good this feature?Please, someone, explain to me.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I think the xp/credits for PvP needs to be bumped up to relate with the new CM bump we get now.  Hell just the XP needs to be bumped up and I'll be happy.

[Slamz]

18 minutes ago, Cimbi said:

Why don't just remove it.Seriously, why is so good this feature?Please, someone, explain to me.

One thing I like about it is that it really makes you commit to a ship rather than quickly jumping to the "flavor of the month". I'm sure some people unlocked 5 slots on the Endymion before discovering that the current speed meta made it basically useless. In a way, we need that. Like, did the meta REALLY change or are people just whiners and you can still make it work? It's the people with 5 slots invested that are most inclined to try and make an old idea work rather than flipping over to some new fad.

In this case, we can say that the current speed meta really does break the Endymion, among others, and I think even people with 5 slots in it have ditched it for better ships which can be made to be just as fast (and in more angles) once you have all the speed books and speed mods.

But we basically forced them to give it a fair shot, to protect their investment. (And then invited legitimate complaints, for the same reason.)

[Sir Texas Sir]

27 minutes ago, Slamz said:

One thing I like about it is that it really makes you commit to a ship rather than quickly jumping to the "flavor of the month". I'm sure some people unlocked 5 slots on the Endymion before discovering that the current speed meta made it basically useless. In a way, we need that. Like, did the meta REALLY change or are people just whiners and you can still make it work? It's the people with 5 slots invested that are most inclined to try and make an old idea work rather than flipping over to some new fad.

In this case, we can say that the current speed meta really does break the Endymion, among others, and I think even people with 5 slots in it have ditched it for better ships which can be made to be just as fast (and in more angles) once you have all the speed books and speed mods.

But we basically forced them to give it a fair shot, to protect their investment. (And then invited legitimate complaints, for the same reason.)

The perk of the Endymion is you can easily hit that cap and make it a strong ship that isn't a glass cannon. I just can't stand the dang thing cause it turns like a potato in battles.  If I want to have bad wind and turn rates I'll just play a SOL...lol

[Malachy]

7 hours ago, Slamz said:

One thing I like about it is that it really makes you commit to a ship rather than quickly jumping to the "flavor of the month". I'm sure some people unlocked 5 slots on the Endymion before discovering that the current speed meta made it basically useless. In a way, we need that. Like, did the meta REALLY change or are people just whiners and you can still make it work? It's the people with 5 slots invested that are most inclined to try and make an old idea work rather than flipping over to some new fad.

In this case, we can say that the current speed meta really does break the Endymion, among others, and I think even people with 5 slots in it have ditched it for better ships which can be made to be just as fast (and in more angles) once you have all the speed books and speed mods.

But we basically forced them to give it a fair shot, to protect their investment. (And then invited legitimate complaints, for the same reason.)

People are just whiners. You can make most ships work with a little thought and understanding their sailing profiles.

[Archaos]

As the game currently stands the PvE grind has one bonus, it gives a supply of rare books and upgrades the drop rate of which they have nerfed. This also appears to be one of the biggest complaints of the PvP mob, that they dont get the same drops from PvP. But at the end of the day forcing people to do PvE is not good as people get bored of it and eventually quit.

I think they didnt put in the same or better drops for PvP because of the possibility of exploiting, but I think this was a mistake. As you say they need to bring in some system that makes proper PvP more viable. XP and gold not just given for the kill but somehow linked to what you killed and with what. The suggestions for this in your OP seem to be along the right lines.

You should be able to unlock all slots and get all drops from PvP alone and it needs to be at an accelerated rate due to the difficulty in finding PvP compared to PvE and the increased risk of PvP.