Learn Something About Customer Satisfaction

[BK-KnightRider]

19 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Perhaps some players have excessive expectations.

What kind of ship and how much wealth should a player be able to gain .... and how quickly?

Perhaps  it might be reasonable to acquire a dozen  large ships (Pavels, Vics, and Santis) plus a dozen other ships with hundreds of millions in gold and possess a half a dozen ports  over  a few thousand hours ?   But  it may be unrealistic for a player to be able to own several 3rd rates in a couple hundred hrs? 

If you are expecting to progress quickly you may value a game that would be far to easy for many others.

Where do I say anything about the rate of progress?  Where do I say anything about what we can own or how fast we can own it?

[BK-KnightRider]

39 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I play solo 90% of the time. Playing in the group helps for beginners to learn. As I am lonely wolf, solo hunter, I didn't "get ganked" since wipe and I captured tons of ships alone and won dozens of battles. Again, I am proving that you're wrong. @Liquicity is a lonely wolf too and I can name a bunch more of them. This just requires more skill to play alone.

Cherry picking a quote out of context is disingenuous a best.  You are proving me wrong about anything because you are misrepresenting my real point, which is the "This is the essence of your position" part of my comment that you ignored.

[BK-KnightRider]

25 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

What would be your incentive ?

Mine is making up a character, choosing a main occupation for it, and unfold the events that shape the story.

 

My incentive is to have fun in different ways under different circumstances.

[Macjimm]

47 minutes ago, BK-KnightRider said:

Where do I say anything about the rate of progress?  Where do I say anything about what we can own or how fast we can own it?

No where.  That's why I asked.  It's relevant.

[Random]

If so many people "misunderstood" or "misinterpreted" your meaning, perhaps you need to work on your communication skills... I still have no clue what you are complaining about and how you would like it fixed...

2 hours ago, BK-KnightRider said:

The point I am dismissing is not a valid (i.e. logical) point.  The point I am dismissing is a gross generalization and over simplification.

As opposed to stating that "as long as the developers keep reacting to and placating only the selfish bullies who care solely about bullying and dominating other players in PvP - by ANY means possible -"? Sure... that's not a gross generalization and over simplification by any means...

Do I have any hard data to support WHAT?

How about your statement that "But the players who want to do BOTH PvE and PvP to varying degrees depending upon their mood and the relationships they develop with other players will mostly quite."

Too bad I never say "people who like PvP ruin the game for others on PvP server."  That is a gross misrepresentation of my comment, and thus that is a lame straw man and false dilemma.

No, you just stated something so vague about developers placating PvP players that it has been interpreted as if you just lumped all PvP players into one category and said that the rest will quit because of them. It's ok if you fail to communicate your thoughts and are misunderstood. But if you are asked to elaborate and you choose not to, people will not understand you any better and all of your attempts to argue your initial point with them will continue to fail.

I am not proposing anything.  I am explaining an issue by using my observations and discussions with other players.

Critique without any meaningful suggestion on how to make things better is much like farts in the wind. Some might even go so far as to label it as whining...

Where do I say anything about wanting people to engage in a "risk free PvE on a PvP server"?  Nice try with that straw man by misrepresenting my comment.

Where do you say anything specific about anything? All one can do is extrapolate from your vague and overly dramatic rant.

Reasonable risk =/= Risk free

That already exists in the game. All risk is reasonable in the PvP environment - leave port and risk being attacked or don't play on a PvP server.

I don't have a clue how to reduce the amount of cheating.  I am not a programmer.

That's a lame excuse for your lack of desire to do anything other than whine - you seem to be unhappy with either some game mechanic or the way that it is being exploited. In either case you seem to forget that the game is still being tested (by you as well). As such, finding all of the ways that game mechanics can be exploited and proposing how they should be changed is part of the testing process. None of that requires you to be a programmer. Simple analytical skills and a bit of imagination is all you need to propose a different game mechanic or ways to modify current ones. Instead of doing that you choose to post a vague statement of disappointment and expect changes... Good luck with that.

 

[Vllad]

4 hours ago, BK-KnightRider said:

I NEVER say that "everyone who enjoys PVP is a 'bully.'"  That is YOUR dishonest misrepresentation.

Again you need to start living by your own rules. Learn to read better.

I never said that you said everyone that enjoys PVP is a bully. Your specific words were that if NA didn't change its ways one of the two niche players that will be left playing NA will be the PVP bullies. I am pointing out that you are just wrong. Their will be PVP players left that are not bullies as well.

 

4 hours ago, BK-KnightRider said:

EXACTLY how do I make anything sound so simple?  That is more nonsense.  I am simply describing reality. 

I am not complaining about PvP per se.  Try reading my comments again.

You certainly aren't describing my reality. Is it possible you are pushing your own frustrations onto us expecting us to understand you when in-fact "we" actually enjoy the things that frustrate you? Just maybe this is you not us.

I re-read your post multiple times and it certainly seems you are complaining about PVP to me.

I have seen your same post by multiple players in many games going back 20 years in UO and EQ1. You have no problem with PVP as long as it is convenient for you. As soon as it isn't convenient then you certainly have a lot of criticism for PVP then.  

My entire point is players like you can never be happy with PVP because you simply can't build a quality PVP game and have PVP always be convenient. So either you have to accept that or you should play another game. Something like ESO or Warhammer where you can enjoy your PVE elements without any worry about PVP and when you feel like PVPing you can jump into a battleground.   

 

4 hours ago, BK-KnightRider said:

FACT:  Whether they intend to do it or not SOME PvP players are selfish bullies who ruin other people's fun.  Doing that is simply their nature. 

This isn't a fact, this is your opinion. You have no clue what the motivation is behind another ship unless you somehow have some magical telepathy that can read people minds through your router. I haven't seen any data that supports your supposition.

[Hodo]

6 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

I play solo 90% of the time. Playing in the group helps for beginners to learn. As I am lonely wolf, solo hunter, I didn't "get ganked" since wipe and I captured tons of ships alone and won dozens of battles. Again, I am proving that you're wrong. @Liquicity is a lonely wolf too and I can name a bunch more of them. This just requires more skill to play alone.

Likewise, I myself am a solo player, I hang out in a clans TS but I am rarely out with them doing things.   

 

[Prater]

TDA/Goats numbers are low, trying to get people back now that revenge fleets and the speed meta are gone.

We mostly sail solo anymore or in two ship packs.  Solo play is definitely there.  That doesn't mean it isn't challenging, but it is there.  Get a cheap ship, go out and pvp against solo hunters who patrol around your capital.  Sink, buy another cheap ship, do the same thing, sink.  Repeat until you learn the game.  You get fun pvp, you provide fun pvp.

 

[Liq]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Liquicity and Ram Dimark lost their ships today by KPR due to gank trying to solo-hunt. Today's patch killed them.

nah not true, I was being too cocky, saw 4 brits coming at us 3, thought we could have a good fight, Didn't see the other guys on the horizon, which joined in late.

[BK-KnightRider]

21 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

KnightRider, stop trying to fight everyone around you. Where is this crowd that agrees with you, like the way you speak on behalf of huge group of players as "WE"??? You just try to make the game being designed to fit your playing style. Try to be objective and stick to the game direction. Read Steam description of the game:

 

Except I am not fighting "everyone" around me.  I am fighting attacks on me.  I am fighting distortions and misrepresentations of my comments.  If you pay close attention to what I say and compare my comments to the responses you might notice how people are attacking me instead of trying to produce a cogent counterargument to my position.  You might notice how people are misrepresenting my comments to fabricate a lame straw man.  You might notice how people are fabricating lame red herrings that are totally irrelevant to the substance of my comments.

For example, whether there is a "crowd that agrees with" me is totally irrelevant.  Nice try with that lame red herring and appeal to popularity fallacy.

For example, the way you dishonestly distort my comments into being only about me trying "to make the game being designed to fit" my playing style and only my playing style.  The FACT is that you don't have a friggin clue what my playing style is because I don't say a damn thing about what my playing style is.  IF my intention was to get the developers to design the game only to satisfy my playing style then that is EXACTLY what I would state because I have the integrity to bluntly, accurately, and truthfully state exactly what I mean.  So, nice try fabricating that lame stereotype to create a lame genetic fallacy.  Also, nice try with that lame red herring because my playing style is totally irrelevant to the validity of my observations and comments.

How about trying to produce a cogent counterargument instead of attacking me?  EXACTLY how are my comments not objective?

ROFL  I don't need to read the Steam description of the game because I have been playing the game for more than 18 months.  So, nice try with another dumb stereotype to fabricate yet another dumb genetic fallacy.

[BK-KnightRider]

21 hours ago, Macjimm said:

No where.  That's why I asked.  It's relevant.

No, the rate of progress and what we can own and when we can own it are totally irrelevant to the purpose and point of my comments.

[BK-KnightRider]

21 hours ago, Drunken Spelunking said:

If so many people "misunderstood" or "misinterpreted" your meaning, perhaps you need to work on your communication skills... I still have no clue what you are complaining about and how you would like it fixed...

 

Yeah, right, the problem is necessary my communication skills.  WOW  That is some amazing nonsense and a laughable ad hominem attack.  If you don't have a clue what the point of my comments is then maybe your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills need some work.

"As opposed to stating that 'as long as the developers keep reacting to and placating only the selfish bullies who care solely about bullying and dominating other players in PvP - by ANY means possible -'? Sure... that's not a gross generalization and over simplification by any means..."

No, that is NOT a "gross generalization" nor an over simplification.  That is an accurate description of a specific subgroup of players.  I am not generalizing about players in general.  I am generalizing about PvPers in general.  I am not over simplifying anything.  I am narrowly focusing on one specific subgroup of players and I bluntly identify exactly which subgroup and type of player.  According to your poor logic referring to speeders as speeders is somehow making a gross generalization about all drivers in general.

How about your statement that "But the players who want to do BOTH PvE and PvP to varying degrees depending upon their mood and the relationships they develop with other players will mostly quite."

No, I did not bother counting the dozens of players who have seen and heard express the opinion I describe nor the ones who quite for the reasons I describe.  Additionally, the number of players who have expressed the sentiment/perception I describe is totally irrelevant to the accuracy and validity of my comments.  Maybe the developers should do a valid survey to measure the issue.

Too bad I never say "people who like PvP ruin the game for others on PvP server."  That is a gross misrepresentation of my comment, and thus that is a lame straw man and false dilemma.

No, you just stated something so vague about developers placating PvP players that it has been interpreted as if you just lumped all PvP players into one category and said that the rest will quit because of them. It's ok if you fail to communicate your thoughts and are misunderstood. But if you are asked to elaborate and you choose not to, people will not understand you any better and all of your attempts to argue your initial point with them will continue to fail.

Except my comment is not vague and I never say anything about PvPers in general.  I am not doing any lumping.  What is your rational explanation about exactly how my comment is supposedly vague?  Or is an empty opinion the best you can manage?  Now you are distorting and misrepresenting my comment, again.  Clearly a few of you need to improve your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.  Also, learn something about context.

No, I do not elaborate when someone distorts and misrepresents my comments.  Such distortions, misrepresentations, and leading questions don't deserve elaboration because such requests or demands for elaboration are not legitimate.  They only deserve an explanation for how they are illegitimate.  Leading questions are not legitimate nor sincere requests for elaboration or an attempt to understand anything.  Leading questions are a covert way to express a conclusion someone has already made.

Critique without any meaningful suggestion on how to make things better is much like farts in the wind. Some might even go so far as to label it as whining...

Clearly you don't understand the problem salving process nor the concept of brainstorming.

Where do I say anything about wanting people to engage in a "risk free PvE on a PvP server"?  Nice try with that straw man by misrepresenting my comment.

Where do you say anything specific about anything? All one can do is extrapolate from your vague and overly dramatic rant.

Actually I do say some rather specific things.  You and a few others are not extrapolating anything.  You people are seeing only what you want to see.

That already exists in the game. All risk is reasonable in the PvP environment - leave port and risk being attacked or don't play on a PvP server.

Wrong.  Some of the risks are NOT reasonable.  The ways some players can effectively cheat necessarily creates unreasonable risks for others.  And if you don't have the integrity to admit that some players cheat then you have zero integrity and zero credibility.

That's a lame excuse for your lack of desire to do anything other than whine - you seem to be unhappy with either some game mechanic or the way that it is being exploited. In either case you seem to forget that the game is still being tested (by you as well). As such, finding all of the ways that game mechanics can be exploited and proposing how they should be changed is part of the testing process. None of that requires you to be a programmer. Simple analytical skills and a bit of imagination is all you need to propose a different game mechanic or ways to modify current ones. Instead of doing that you choose to post a vague statement of disappointment and expect changes... Good luck with that.

Nice try with that shameful attempt to resort to the pathetic tactic of making a childish ad hominem attack to fabricate another stereotype.  EXACTLY how am I whining about anything?  EXACTLY what whining language am I using?  EXACTLY how am I expressing any unhappiness with any game mechanic?  EXACTLY how am I expressing any disappointment of anything?  Also, I have forgotten NOTHING - ergo the whole point of making an observation and presenting a suggestion.  I also know perfectly well that identifying and fixing exploits and cheats is one of the purposes for testing - ergo the whole point of making an observation and presenting a suggestion.

[BK-KnightRider]

18 hours ago, Vllad said:

Again you need to start living by your own rules. Learn to read better.

I never said that you said everyone that enjoys PVP is a bully. Your specific words were that if NA didn't change its ways one of the two niche players that will be left playing NA will be the PVP bullies. I am pointing out that you are just wrong. Their will be PVP players left that are not bullies as well.

 

You certainly aren't describing my reality. Is it possible you are pushing your own frustrations onto us expecting us to understand you when in-fact "we" actually enjoy the things that frustrate you? Just maybe this is you not us.

I re-read your post multiple times and it certainly seems you are complaining about PVP to me.

I have seen your same post by multiple players in many games going back 20 years in UO and EQ1. You have no problem with PVP as long as it is convenient for you. As soon as it isn't convenient then you certainly have a lot of criticism for PVP then.  

My entire point is players like you can never be happy with PVP because you simply can't build a quality PVP game and have PVP always be convenient. So either you have to accept that or you should play another game. Something like ESO or Warhammer where you can enjoy your PVE elements without any worry about PVP and when you feel like PVPing you can jump into a battleground.   

 

This isn't a fact, this is your opinion. You have no clue what the motivation is behind another ship unless you somehow have some magical telepathy that can read people minds through your router. I haven't seen any data that supports your supposition.

I am living by my own rules and I stand by my prediction.  Yes, currently most PvP players are not selfish bullies.  But if the developers keep reacting to and catering to the very vocal bullies more and more of the PvP players who are not bullies will quite.  All of the players I know who have quite were PvP players who were not selfish bullies.  All of the players I know who are considering quitting are PvP players who are not selfish bullies.  If the trend continues fewer and fewer of those players will remain because the game will end up appealing mostly to two niches.

Or maybe I am describing your reality but you either are blind to it or you are fine with it.  Perception is reality to the perceiver, but perceptions are not always accurate.

Where and how do I express any frustration?  I have no frustration with the game per se.

Well, it looks like you need to read my comment a few more times because the way you are characterizing my comments and position could not be more wrong.

And THERE it is - the lame stereotyping about my kind of player and my playing style.  You don't have a clue about what kind of player I am nor what my playing style is because I have not said a single thing about my style nor my preferences.  My comments have NOTHING to do with what I find convenient or inconvenient.  Nice try with that lame red herring.

ROFL  And THERE it is again - another dumb stereotype about how I supposedly can't be happy with PvP because I supposedly don't find PvP convenient.  The way you people usually resort to that same kind of lame stereotyping nonsense is amusing.  I don't have any problems with convenience or inconvenience regarding PvP.  That is why I have played exclusively on the PvP server for more than 18 months.

It is a fact.  Forming a rational conclusion from observable evidence is MORE than a simple opinion.  Extrapolating motivations behind observable behavior is MORE than forming a simple opinion.  Clearly you don't understand bullies very well.  Also, I know for a FACT that/how bullies ruin the fun for some players because I know for a fact that is why some people have quite.

Edited July 22, 2017 by BK-KnightRider

[Rebel Witch]

On 7/20/2017 at 8:15 AM, Hodo said:

So you have never heard of the Sheep, Wolf, Sheepdog comparison have you?

MMO PVPers, come in three basic flavors.

There are Sheep, the PVEr who wants nothing to do with PVP, and only wants to enjoy the little things in the game.  

The Wolves, who love to prey on the sheep, and generally only concerned with the hunt and kill.

And the Sheepdogs, who are there to enjoy all aspects of the game, but dont go seeking out PVP, but dont mind it when it happens. 

 

You sir are a sheep.  

Actually Hodo there are four, you missed the fourth, the troll which is the category you fall under. I know this because you told us so

In all seriousness , this OP dude has some points. This game is cucked if the devs don't figure out what they are going to do with this game. They keep throwing things at the wall trying to see what sticks and players are getting tired of seeing their ideas fall overboard. This is probably the best tall ship sim ever made, its gorgeous , its sailing mechanics and combat well rounded. However the devs cannot figure out how to make this into an mmo for a wide variety of customers. I honestly don't think they know what they are doing anymore regarding the mmo mechanics. Gotta give them credit for trying though.

I would tell them they need to look at EVE online as a model for their MMO part of the game, but thats so last years suggestions that so many others recommended and the devs ignored. hey, its their game, they have to pay for its success or failure, we get to move on to other games. So while they "ain't" too good at the customer satisfaction of their alpha...beta..whatever it is stage, lets hope they get it together so trolls like Hodo can keep getting sunk.

 

 

 

[Macjimm]

6 hours ago, BK-KnightRider said:

No, the rate of progress and what we can own and when we can own it are totally irrelevant to the purpose and point of my comments.

I totally missed your point and purpose then. 

[BK-KnightRider]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:18 AM, Peter Goldman said:

KnightRider, stop trying to fight everyone around you. Where is this crowd that agrees with you, like the way you speak on behalf of huge group of players as "WE"??? You just try to make the game being designed to fit your playing style. Try to be objective and stick to the game direction. Read Steam description of the game:

 

Something I have thought of since the first time I responded to this comment is that the crowd of players who most likely agree with me have QUIT, partly or largely for the reasons I explain.  I know for a fact some of them quit for the reasons I explain because, again, they told me that is why they quit.

[BK-KnightRider]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:46 AM, Rebel Witch said:

Actually Hodo there are four, you missed the fourth, the troll which is the category you fall under. I know this because you told us so

In all seriousness , this OP dude has some points. This game is cucked if the devs don't figure out what they are going to do with this game. They keep throwing things at the wall trying to see what sticks and players are getting tired of seeing their ideas fall overboard. This is probably the best tall ship sim ever made, its gorgeous , its sailing mechanics and combat well rounded. However the devs cannot figure out how to make this into an mmo for a wide variety of customers. I honestly don't think they know what they are doing anymore regarding the mmo mechanics. Gotta give them credit for trying though.

I would tell them they need to look at EVE online as a model for their MMO part of the game, but thats so last years suggestions that so many others recommended and the devs ignored. hey, its their game, they have to pay for its success or failure, we get to move on to other games. So while they "ain't" too good at the customer satisfaction of their alpha...beta..whatever it is stage, lets hope they get it together so trolls like Hodo can keep getting sunk.

 

 

 

EXACTLY!  You put this very well; and I completely forgot about that fourth category.  Good catch.

I grew up playing tactical and strategic war games, including "Wooden Ships and Iron Men."  This game is indeed a gorgeous tall ship sim, and naval tactical sim, and a strategy sim.  This game has fantastic potential to be sooooooo much more than a wet FPS with ships instead of an individual soldier or tank or plane.  To me it seems very obvious that the developers probably never played any tactical or strategic war games and probably not many RPGs, but they have played shooters and real time strategy sims.  I also give them a lot of credit for their vision and for trying.

[BK-KnightRider]

You sir are obviously more honorable than the vast majority of the pirates I have come across.  So, I assume you are not a pirate.

Still, just for the record and the sake of clarity, the players I am talking about who have quit were not the kind of troll you describe.  They didn't have an issue with the situations you describe.  Indeed, they did the same things to others.