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Here is sequence of (screenshots) Victory masts going down from single broadsides and the AI rebuilding masts. It's kinda funny actually, but I don't see it being something intended. Devs may be aware of it, but just in case I thought I would show how it happens.

 

In a little over 3 minutes one AI Victory ship loses 4 masts cumulative and rebuilds 2.

 

 

Exhibit 1: Notice Benito de Soto on the left Time 56:28

fna720.jpg

 

2: De Soto after 1 broadside, two masts down Time 55:22

2uyra0o.jpg

 

3: De Soto has rebuilt a mast. Time 54:28

wjyoub.jpg

 

4. Broadside takes down middle mast Time: 54:04

 

 102v6ms.jpg

 

5. He just has the bottom sail of the middle mast remaining Time 53:56

 

2pre5w9.jpg

 

6. He has rebuilt half of the middle mast  Time 53:23

 

 9lcy9v.jpg

 

7. Next broadside takes out his front mast  Time 52:51

 

 ogl62u.jpg

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What I dont want to see is Masts being shot, going down and then magically reappearing..... ships never carried spare complete masts.

I think mast repairs should be dramatically slower, but be taken from a completely separate pool of repair as hull patches. That's a plus for realism and gameplay.

And this is one of those gameplay concessions over realism that I personally don't have a problem seeing in the game .

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It didnt take long for 3 broadsides to rip off every mast on my brig when I was up against 2 trincos, that was after I was forced to use repairs from previous demast. I was left static in the waters while they sailed away with the rest of our fleet heh.

 

I was thinking along the lines of 2-4 demast average per battle not per ship. :P

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2 heavy broadsides demasting a brig is very realistic. On all paintings ships after battle are mostly demasted :)

but we know it's game changing and boring. Realism does not equal gameplay.

One solution is to separate mast repairs from hull - making it a skill on a cool down. It is not magic because ships carried extra mast parts and canvas and could use existing broken parts for repairs.

Another one is to give 4 repairs.

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Mast repairs should DEFINITELY be separate. But also much slower. Much, much slower. That way, taking down a mast gives you a fleeting tactical advantage that only affects part of a battle. You must seize your opportunitu or lose it. That is good fair gameplay.

Ships should carry many replacements for topgallant masts, one of each topmast and no lower masts. But lower masts should be pretty much invulnerable until sails and hull lose around 30% HP. This is realism-inspired balance.

Personally I think dismasting is the most exciting thing that can happen in this game.

And at the end of the day repairs will extremely cartoonish until we get some specific animations for them. Jury rigs would be awesome too.

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I like the separated repairs idea.

On the topic of masts, I think is cool that finally is here. I don't think is specially overdone either (and I say this after having been reduced to a big canoe with guns some times now). However I think it's a bit binary at the moment. I've seen whole masts falling down under heavy fire, but I've not seen any portion of the masts going away. It's either losing a whole mast, or nothing. You can't lose a topgallant (not that I've seen at least) while the rest of the mast remains there....

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I do love the de-masting and I even posted an extensive quote from a firsthand account in general discussion some weeks ago demonstrating how many ships were dismasted at Trafalgar...however all at extreme close range, often yardarm to yardarm and all of them after several 1st and 2nd rate broadsides.

 

So, captains, I propose this for consideration:

  • As Maturin said, lower masts should be very hard to bring down. HP should increase rapidly with size; a mast on the Victory should never ever be brought down with five rounds (or any number?) of chain shot (as I showed with the 'L' data screenshot in the patch thread) and should be a half days work for something like a Surprise to bring down. On the other hand if one were to cut loose once at a cutters mast and rigging from close range with the Constitution, she should have no masts.
  • I very much like the idea proposed of a mast specific repair, one time use, very, very slow, which can replace the middle and upper portions of a mast. The bigger the ship, the longer it takes. If you've lost your entire mast, which as mentioned should be very hard to do, you cannot repair that mast in combat. Go anchor off the coast of Brazil and find a tree that's suitable...open world hint ;)
  • Screens 2 and 3 should never happen in my opinion. From that range, a Victory should never lose two masts and then completely rebuild 1 in under minute.
  • I am totally up for the mast damage and repair mechanic being tweaked several more times and discussed further before alpha release, I mean that's what we are here for :)
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I like the separated repairs idea.

On the topic of masts, I think is cool that finally is here. I don't think is specially overdone either (and I say this after having been reduced to a big canoe with guns some times now). However I think it's a bit binary at the moment. I've seen whole masts falling down under heavy fire, but I've not seen any portion of the masts going away. It's either losing a whole mast, or nothing. You can't lose a topgallant (not that I've seen at least) while the rest of the mast remains there....

I can't say in this build, but in previous builds you could just lose your topgallant or masts in sections. I've had it done and done it to a few others in the past.

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All ships actually carried material for one or two temporary masts, Charles Caldwell. Ships often lost masts in storms. this is called emergency rig

Therefore it is historically correct to reconstruct a PART of the mast. Not the entire mast. 

/T

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I'd say this is a problem with the graphics vs. reality.  Many things that would put a mast 'out of commission', but not actually dismasting, aren't shown.  Therefore, it's either holes in sails or dismasting.  I'm happy that they seem to have at least masts being dismasted at different areas, but there are many other things, such as shooting a yard, cutting the braces, or just weakening the shrouds/stays enough could force a ship to at least clew up a lot of sails or make it impossible to rotate the sails.  However, with some quick splicing of lines or running backup jury rigging would put them back in operation, at least for a battle.  So, with these problems (and more damage possibilities) not actually shown in the game, they resort to loosing the mast.  In this way, it is somewhat realistic, except that the graphics just don't show what's really going on.  I don't think it's realistic that they model every single line individually, know the effects of a cannon ball cutting it, and show that specific damage to the ships.

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And at the end of the day repairs will extremely cartoonish until we get some specific animations for them. Jury rigs would be awesome too.

 

Repair visuals are fine for a computer game. 

 

What I dont want to see is Masts being shot, going down and then magically reappearing..... ships never carried spare complete masts.

 

Nice try.

Lets not waste time fiction and just use facts. We can prove everything with have in the game by written research or references. if you argue them provide scans of sources.

 

Ships were carrying spare yards, mast parts and canvas. Very often.

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Ok, first battle in Vic vs Vic after latest update:

Chain shooting him for 25 minutes, nothing, only sails go down. Never achieved mast going down.

 

I don't think I've achieved a demast with chainshot only. Firing roundshot across the decks, however, is a whole different story. A good couple of broadsides with roundshot blazing at deck level, a bit of good luck of getting some to hit a mast, and you perfectly can achieve a demasting.

 

OFC my experience is reduced to dealing with Constitutions and smaller. Haven't fought a Bellona yet since the update, and Victories are rare (THANKFULLY XD) so I didn't see any since the update either.

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I like the mast repair mechanic.

 

I think the masts in general should have a more hitpoints. They should be a little slower to come down.

 

I also think the lower masts, the ones that extend into the hull of the ship should almost never come down. And I don't think ships carried a spare main mast. But I don't have any references handy.

 

I also think there should be more rigging and mast damage on a collision, taking all current collision factors into account (angle, speed, etc.). Plus often times when ships with yards and rigging far outstretching their hulls, would often get endlessly entangled on a collision/boarding. Not sure if that is modeled currently or will be.

 

Is rigging damage part of the model? if so, would that mean certain sails are not able to be set?

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Repair visuals are fine for a computer game.

Nice try.

Lets not waste time fiction and just use facts. We can prove everything with have in the game by written research or references. if you argue them provide scans of sources.

Ships were carrying spare yards, mast parts and canvas. Very often.

No ship carried a spare lower masts because it would have been pointless. They wouldn't be able to replace a lower mast at sea. The only thing that could be done is to replace the lower mast with a much less effective "jury rigged" mast that would not be able to carry as much sail or additional upper masts. That is why people think that if the entire mast (including lower mast) comes down, it should not be instantly and completely repaired.
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I don't think I've achieved a demast with chainshot only. Firing roundshot across the decks, however, is a whole different story. A good couple of broadsides with roundshot blazing at deck level, a bit of good luck of getting some to hit a mast, and you perfectly can achieve a demasting.

 

OFC my experience is reduced to dealing with Constitutions and smaller. Haven't fought a Bellona yet since the update, and Victories are rare (THANKFULLY XD) so I didn't see any since the update either.

 

Ive noticed yesterday all my demast were from ball rounds. I've actually spent a whole game in my trinco firing broadside after broadside of chain shot at the victory from his stern, brought down his sails to 70% but nothing else really.

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Ok, after hard beer fulled testing with RAMJB and Balck we found out few things about demasting and chain shots.

First of all, u cant demast using chain shots, or it is nearly impossible.

Chain shots damage sails.

If You want to demast a ship You use normal or double ammo. Sometimes a single hit can put a mast down, sometimes more, I'm not sure if it depends of the mast size. But You would have a sniper crew on board or big luck to hit it.

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Repair visuals are fine for a computer game.

Nice try.

Lets not waste time fiction and just use facts. We can prove everything with have in the game by written research or references. if you argue them provide scans of sources.

Ships were carrying spare yards, mast parts and canvas. Very often.

I think the earlier poster was referring to "whole mast" as all three sections of mast with all the yards and sails.

No warship ever carried even one single lower mast replacement. Replacing a lower mast was completely impossible.

That's a fact, and an unusually obvious and indisputable one.

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Nice try.

Lets not waste time fiction and just use facts. We can prove everything with have in the game by written research or references. if you argue them provide scans of sources.

 

Ships were carrying spare yards, mast parts and canvas. Very often.

 

Nice try? Are you implying I'm trying something on?

 

I'm not denying that ships carried spare yards, canvas and other spares to Jury rig some sort of repair... but if a Main mast went, they would not have one lying around. I can see a mizzen mast, even a fore mast being semi erected, but a main, suddenly appearing from the darkest depths of the hull, no. I can also see the smaller vessels knocking up a temporary mast, but not the rated vessels.

 

I think my issue is with masts returning as new. If they could perhaps be half height, and reduced effectiveness then thats reasonable......

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