+60 KNOTS! invisibility super power

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Prater said:

Ok, and a trader can defensive tag at extreme range and make it impossible to get caught in the first place.  You shouldn't even be able to initiate combat unless you are in combat range in my opinion.

 

 

Many months ago I suggested a fix to the defensive tagging problem, but it was ignored. Simply have the tagging circle offset so it is greater in direction of travel, that way the person running cannot defensive tag till the attacker is quite close already.

[Slamz]

Defensive tags will be riskier now.

Previously, defensive tags would give you a good distance and probably split the guys chasing you. Anyone not in range of your defensive tag (centered on you) against the closest ship won't get pulled in.

Now, your defensive tag will put the entire enemy gank fleet in the tag circle (centered on them) with you alone on the edge, more likely splitting your own group if you had one. Hope none of them are too fast or have good front guns.

Of course, similar-speed attacks against a fleeing opponent on the OW are always the worst tags and that won't change much. They'll probably get away in that case. But we all know this. The best tags are the ones where you can somehow surprise someone or box them in and get nice and comfy with them before the tag completes.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Slamz

[Prater]

I was referring to trader defensive tags.  If the Trader defensive tags, it will be impossible to catch them now.  Me:  Lynx.  Enemy:  Trader Lynx.  Process:  Sail into range of Trader Lynx.  It can take 1-5 minutes just to close the gap from outer edge attack ring to the enemy ship, sometimes even more.  Now they can just defensive tag at extreme range (even outside cannon range) and after we get out of combat, poof they are gone.  Because I am faster, given the time I will catch them, but with defensive tags + battle leave timers, I won't be able to unless they are afk or not paying attention.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prater

[Wolfram Harms]

I'm afraid my MERCURY isn't built for such speeds. Will the insurance pay for any damage???

[z4ys]

2 hours ago, Prater said:

If it is 30 seconds, 60 knots is enough to travel out of or to the edge of site range.  If it is 45 seconds, it is site range + half site range.  If revenge fleets want to catch someone now, they will have to station in intervals pretty far out, which means a revenge gank can't be a gank unless the entire navy is there with 25+ ships.

I hope outlaw battle doesn't give this boost.

+1

[Sven Silberbart]

 

18 minutes ago, Prater said:

I was referring to trader defensive tags.  If the Trader defensive tags, it will be impossible to catch them now.  Me:  Lynx.  Enemy:  Trader Lynx.  Process:  Sail into range of Trader Lynx.  It can take 1-5 minutes just to close the gap from outer edge attack ring to the enemy ship, sometimes even more.  Now they can just defensive tag at extreme range (even outside cannon range) and after we get out of combat, poof they are gone.  Because I am faster, given the time I will catch them, but with defensive tags + battle leave timers, I won't be able to unless they are afk or not paying attention.

1Billion% agree. This is biggest fail ever. Too much equal ship speeds and now this turbo speed shit on the top. This game does't go the right way.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

impossible

Defensive tags definitely seems to be a likely problem. If you can definitely catch someone but they tag you at extreme range of tagging then you are screwed.

[Hodo]

44 minutes ago, Prater said:

I was referring to trader defensive tags.  If the Trader defensive tags, it will be impossible to catch them now.  Me:  Lynx.  Enemy:  Trader Lynx.  Process:  Sail into range of Trader Lynx.  It can take 1-5 minutes just to close the gap from outer edge attack ring to the enemy ship, sometimes even more.  Now they can just defensive tag at extreme range (even outside cannon range) and after we get out of combat, poof they are gone.  Because I am faster, given the time I will catch them, but with defensive tags + battle leave timers, I won't be able to unless they are afk or not paying attention.

I am sorry but I have to disagree.  I havent had a trader lynx out run my lynx or even my privateer in battle.  And they are hard pressed to counter tag that puts them in an advantage vs my Lynx/Privateer that will allow them to get away.   Unless I am sleeping or lax in my pursuit then they are mine if I am in tag range.  

But I am also that oddball hunter that runs area control.  

[Prater]

 

5 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I am sorry but I have to disagree.  I havent had a trader lynx out run my lynx or even my privateer in battle.  And they are hard pressed to counter tag that puts them in an advantage vs my Lynx/Privateer that will allow them to get away.   Unless I am sleeping or lax in my pursuit then they are mine if I am in tag range.  

But I am also that oddball hunter that runs area control.  

I don't think you know what a defensive tag is.

I run control.  My Lynx is extremely fast.  If they tag you right away as you enter tag range - this is a defensive tag - you can't catch them in time because they are outside the 750 meter control range (the distance is 1000-1500+ meters) when battle starts and there isn't enough time to get into control range by the time the leave timer expires.  Now in the past they get away, I guess which direction they will run, get it right, and come out of invisibility right on top of them and initiate my own tag.  Now that won't be the case.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prater

[Hodo]

8 minutes ago, Prater said:

 

I don't think you know what a defensive tag is.

I run control.  My Lynx is extremely fast.  If they tag you right away as you enter tag range - this is a defensive tag - you can't catch them in time because they are outside the 750 meter control range (the distance is 1000-1500+ meters) when battle starts and there isn't enough time to get into control range by the time the leave timer expires.  Now in the past they get away, I guess which direction they will run, get it right, and come out of invisibility right on top of them and initiate my own tag.  Now that won't be the case.

No but I can drop sail and get out of the tag circle forcing a reset in the counter.  And most of the time I can close the distance long before the timer runs down on a d-tag anyway.   Putting them well with in Control range before the fight gets underway.

[Prater]

33 minutes ago, Hodo said:

No but I can drop sail and get out of the tag circle forcing a reset in the counter.  And most of the time I can close the distance long before the timer runs down on a d-tag anyway.   Putting them well with in Control range before the fight gets underway.

Yes, you can do that, but they will just retag you again anyway.  And if their TLynx is super fast, you will never be able to get close.

 

If you are able to close the tag distance in 15 seconds they either didn't do a proper defensive tag, their ship is really slow, or they are at max weight.  Which yes, you will catch them.  But why should a super fast TLynx be able to outrun me when I am in a faster Lynx all because the tag range is too far and they can defensive tag me, pulling us into battle no where near each other?  In the OW and in battle I would eventually catch him.  I think the tag distance should actually be control range.  If someone tags me they should only get away if they are faster or they out maneuver me or they shoot my sails up enough to get away.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prater

[Liq]

All we need is a 1-2 minute "you cannot attack" timer AFTER the invisibility - can still get attacked! Other than that I'm glad the devs finally did the right thing and dealt with the revenge fleet nonsense.

[Hodo]

34 minutes ago, Prater said:

Yes, you can do that, but they will just retag you again anyway.  And if their TLynx is super fast, you will never be able to get close.

 

If you are able to close the tag distance in 15 seconds they either didn't do a proper defensive tag, their ship is really slow, or they are at max weight.  Which yes, you will catch them.  But why should a super fast TLynx be able to outrun me when I am in a faster Lynx all because the tag range is too far and they can defensive tag me, pulling us into battle no where near each other?  In the OW and in battle I would eventually catch him.  I think the tag distance should actually be control range.  If someone tags me they should only get away if they are faster or they out maneuver me or they shoot my sails up enough to get away.

If he is super fast, he is hauling nothing of note, so why bother.

 

A T-Lynx is only as fast as its hold is empty.  I know I have one.  Empty it will do 34kn OW, loaded at 80% max it will do 26kn OW.  HUGE difference, seeing as my hunting Lynx does 34OW and my Privateer does 32.

[Prater]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

If he is super fast, he is hauling nothing of note, so why bother.

 

A T-Lynx is only as fast as its hold is empty.  I know I have one.  Empty it will do 34kn OW, loaded at 80% max it will do 26kn OW.  HUGE difference, seeing as my hunting Lynx does 34OW and my Privateer does 32.

I dont care if he doesnt have anything of note.  My Lynx goes 35.

[Hodo]

Just now, Prater said:

I dont care if he doesnt have anything of note.  My Lynx goes 35.

Then you fail to understand what it means to hunt sir.  Good day.

[Prater]

7 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Then you fail to understand what it means to hunt sir.  Good day.

No, I do not fail to understand.  You only go for fat traders, I go for anyone.  You fail to see the issue.  Replace Trader Lynx with Lynx.  Combat pvp right there.  My ship is faster, I can't tag.  This goes for any two ships in open world that have similar speeds but where the one wanting to fight is faster and the one not wanting to fight is slightly slower (the defensive tagger).  If the defender doesn't want to fight, all he has to do is defensive tag and get away.  Granted, this is how it has always been.  I am just saying that with the increase in OW speed/invisibility, defensive tagging needs to be harder, so make the tag circles smaller, or increase the time back to 20 seconds.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prater

[Archaos]

8 hours ago, Prater said:

 

I don't think you know what a defensive tag is.

I run control.  My Lynx is extremely fast.  If they tag you right away as you enter tag range - this is a defensive tag - you can't catch them in time because they are outside the 750 meter control range (the distance is 1000-1500+ meters) when battle starts and there isn't enough time to get into control range by the time the leave timer expires.  Now in the past they get away, I guess which direction they will run, get it right, and come out of invisibility right on top of them and initiate my own tag.  Now that won't be the case.

I agree defensive tagging is a problem, but the old method of when they escaped you just re-tag them is a problem too, what happens in that case if they escape you again? you just keep re-tagging till you get it right, which is a broken mechanic. There are two separate mechanics here that need tweaking. The defensive tag one as I say should be easily solved by offsetting the tag circle or making it more elliptical, The re-tag issue is a bit more difficult to solve, and I do not think the current solution of invisibility and speed boost is the best.  

[ajffighter86]

12 hours ago, Sven Silberbart said:

Never understood this speed thing. Adjust the invisibility timer a bit up. That was all we needed. But, like the thread owner said, the devs just know the max or min. Nothing in the middle like so often.

Problem with longer invisibility timers is that people learned to exploit it.

Time will tell how people manage to exploit this new mechanic, but for now, let us pray that we get to have nice things. I've long felt that escaping in battle means you . . well, escaped lol. We'll see if it's enough to make both sides happy.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ajffighter86

[Wolfram Harms]

10 hours ago, Sven Silberbart said:

1Billion% agree. This is biggest fail ever. Too much equal ship speeds and now this turbo speed shit on the top. This game does't go the right way.

A BIG PLUS to this.

The new feature can easily be misused. When a group of ships leave BATTLE one after the other,
each new BATTLE LEAVE INFO bar will also bring a new SPEED BOOST for those who are already out - every time someone new leaves.
So it can easily be exploited to get the most and the best ships out and far enough away.
Only the last leaving BATTLE would have to make do with only a single SPEED BOOST.

All these unrealistic attempts in the game to give some collectible advantages, or aids in desperate situations, are - well:
unrealistic and very wrong. They just don't feel right to me at all.
Different ships should have different features, which maybe the player could advance to a certain extent.
It shouldn't be possible to UPGRADE almost all ships to death to 15 knots SPEED or anything like that,
only to end up with some players with "super-power-UPGRADED ships" dominating the others.

This is competition in a badly wrong direction IMHO.

 

Another point that worries me is the strength of some NATIONs. Although I am well off, belonging to one of the strongest,
I fear, that these NATIONs might dominate the others so much in the near future, that a huge misbalance might happen.
After all, the "original Sweden" only had a handfull of small islands in the Caribbean.
One idea to counter that might be, that NAVAL ACTION evenly distributes all new players to the NATIONs; player cannot choose for himself.
But that would of course be the badest way to sort it out - many of us want to be in a specific NATION surely.

Perhaps there are other ways possible; perhaps anyone else has suggestions and ideas?

Edited July 18, 2017 by Wolfram Harms

[Hethwill]

Finally got to feel the power-ranger mode exiting a battle.

It is fairly comical of course ( pretty sure that at one time we did test a OW accelerated mode that looked fairly similar to it, long ago ). The distance travelled is equivalent to view range extreme. No more no less.

A coast guard network can still counter any raiders IF they do spread out and keep on the move, as opposite to sitting in one place.

Not sure if I like it or if I don't but would definitely leave it for the moment being with one tiny addition:

- players under invisibility should not be able to see any ships in the OW, either AI or players.

[Hethwill]

Just now, rediii said:

It's too long. You don't only travel 1 viewrange. More like 4.

Seconds invisible have to go down, "can not tag someone" timer has to go up

We tested it. It is extreme view range. Invisibility pops out and ship in distance suddenly vanishes out of view range.

[Wolfram Harms]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

It's too long. You don't only travel 1 viewrange. More like 4.
Seconds invisible have to go down, "can not tag someone" timer has to go up

Why not make it an "either-or-thing"?

You either have a certain time of invisibility with normal speed - or you have a high-speed-escape time, but are visible.

[Archaos]

It has already been shown in another thread that the invisibility speed boost is being used to attack unwary targets, so while it may have solved the revenge fleet problem it has introduced sneak attack problems and given the raiders too much advantage. Raiding deep in enemy waters should come with increased risk, the revenge fleets issue is a problem but I do not think this is the solution.

[Wolfram Harms]

Just now, rediii said:

because 1. doesnt work and 2. looks stupid  

Why should 1) not work? Depends on the timer.

And if 2) looks stupid - well, there is so much unrealistic, stupid stuff by now... In German we call it "Verschlimmbesserung"...

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

It could be the solution but timers have to be changed.

"can not tag" to 3-5 minutes after invis and less invis time in my oppinion

This could work, would need testing to see if there are any issues. If nothing else it would at least solve attacker appearing out of nowhere and instantly tagging.