White Peace - France-Denmark Trade Conflict ends

[Dharus]

13 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

You guys went from creating a thread to announce a diplomatic deal and peace to almost declare war on each other again! It's amazing.

Well, the deal in OP was struck and then the Danes ran up contention on two French ports that were to be taken by Sweden.  In many minds, that is a break from the treaty.  This is after the 40 minute treaty which they then canceled and nobody really knows about.  And before that more shenanigans... there is a lot of bad blood out there from these games and it's not from losing any ships...

 

[Fastidius]

So as a diplomat to france/danes/pirates I have to say this is moving from peace to war again very quickly.  Diplomats should be a little removed from the nation in some sense.  Their goals are to broker deals for the nation but also to spend that discussion behind closed doors and come out with a clear result.  There are things diplomats should know that their nations don't.  The forums are not the place for discussions of diplomacy only of the outcomes.

1 - The ports in question are to be owned by swedes, how they become swedes is a bit of a question but if you ask the danes and sweden about it rather than jumping to "YOU BROKE THE DEAL" as a first step it might prove to be a move they wanted or can tolerate for a few days to garner an ongoing peace.  I have no contact with the swedes at this time but I suspect that the Danes have a mutual interest in them. If the swedeswould like to make contact with me i am Fasti in game

 

2 - Who is the Swedish Diplo and what's their view on it?  I haven't read pages and pages on this but it seems to have gone sideways for them and not you so their view of it is important.

 

3 - why broker a peace deal if you want to fight?  If you truely want peace at this time then you should be on a stance of discussion not of aggression.

 

4 - As an outsider, i would say that the move the danes did on the swedish ports was to be discussed between Danes and sweden and the french aspect of the agreement was in place.  If sweden and the danes are arguing about it then the outcome of their arguments is what you are to act upon not making your own assumptions prior to this.  If they did do something wrong perhaps it was something that would be resolved in short term.  If anyone should be complaining right now it should be the swedes.

 

As i say i have not read every page nor do I know all of the posters but it does seem that the agreement will be upheld at this moment just that the handovers are messy.

If the treaty over already there should be a post announcing which nation is exiting the treaty.  The clarity of this issue is very murky now with all the posts.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Fastidius

[Bach]

46 minutes ago, Fastidius said:

If the treaty over already there should be a post announcing which nation is exiting the treaty.  The clarity of this issue is very murky now with all the posts.

That's not what is happening. France isn't moving towards war from peace.  This is mostly the soldiers that fought the war sounding off in this thread about not being real happy with the diplomats solution. That doesn't mean anyone is breaking the deal.  Had that been the case we could have easily just hopped into the two port battles and started it right there. But no one did. Following the order doesn't have to equate to being happy about it.

Now as to your point of view that this is between Sweden and Danes I do not agree. That was going to be 300 CMs, roughly, going to the soldiers that put in the effort to take those ports in the war. They are getting screwed or at least that is how some of them see it. Pissing off your soldiers, that actually fight, is a dicey proposition. Both on the part of France, Sweden and the Danes.  It logical to assume that at some point in the future all three will probably need these same soldiers again for something. 

Had the Danes and Swedes wanted to make this right they would simply offer the lost marks to the soldiers. France and even BLACK should be demanding it for not being better lawyers in writing a peace deal that gets a little something for the guys that fought it. It's a matter of making the soldiers happier than they are which seems to be the one thing the diplomatic corps here don't seem to think is worth anything.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Bach

[Fastidius]

yep the spoils of those ports need to be discussed for sure but it's not a discussion for here.

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Fastidius said:

3 - why broker a peace deal if you want to fight?  If you truely want peace at this time then you should be on a stance of discussion not of aggression.

 

A nation is a spectrum of opinions and desires.  Count the limited number of players posting in this thread.  Hopefully the Swedish Meatballs are going to work hard on taking over those regions so we can collectively get over this hump, but it would not surprise me if the shenanigans continue for a long time.  Given the poor quality of communication between CCCP and FreeFrance it could go sideways at any moment.

 

[Landomatic]

19 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

A nation is a spectrum of opinions and desires.  Count the limited number of players posting in this thread.  Hopefully the Swedish Meatballs are going to work hard on taking over those regions so we can collectively get over this hump, but it would not surprise me if the shenanigans continue for a long time.  Given the poor quality of communication between CCCP and FreeFrance it could go sideways at any moment.

 

'France, as opposed to acting like a nation as a French Expeditionary Force, act more like a bunch of mercenary groups whom just happen to be French.' - David DeFocher

[Barbancourt]

56 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

'France, as opposed to acting like a nation as a French Expeditionary Force, act more like a bunch of mercenary groups whom just happen to be French.' - David DeFocher

Hooligans!  I bet they don't even know how to queue...

 

[Taurus454]

Once again, I, and I alone speak for Sweden.  The Leewards and Bovenwinds are Swedish ports and to be perfectly clear, the Danes taking of them were at the urging of Sweden.  

To France, the Leewards and Bovenwinds are Swedish ports and not of your concern so please drop the issue from this point forward.  Furthermore, the Danes are not attacking you and so long as France stays out of Gustav there will not be a war between France and Sweden unless Sweden is provoked into it again by French  players like King of Crowns attacking Swedish vessels.  So please, I humbly ask you rein King of Crowns in and send him elsewhere.  Of course, how you engage in diplomacy is up to you but take it from someone who has negotiated a bilateral treaty in real life, it helps immensely when one person is "empowered" to negotiate a deal.  Diplomacy by committee does not work, if you need a case study, look at VD, aka Dutch! 

[Serk]

For someone who negotiated bilateral agreement, can you tell me where it is said in the DN-France treaty that OW PVP between France and Sweden is forbiden?

[Hethwill]

As per 24th May, 2017 everything was wiped.

Globalist ( players that uphold full access to the game 24/7 ) players do not care IF a year and a half ago yadda yadda tales of old clans were omnipotent and others became awesome friends. More than the half of the population in PvP Global is not native to old PvP2.

New server. New wipe. New world.

Written word was matter of fact in the age of sail. If it wasn't written in oficial papers and recorded on the logs it didn't happen nor it wouldn't be upheld.

 

 

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, Serk said:

For someone who negotiated bilateral agreement, can you tell me where it is said in the DN-France treaty that OW PVP between France and Sweden is forbiden?

it's not, so enjoy.

[Slamz]

2 hours ago, Taurus454 said:

To France, the Leewards and Bovenwinds are Swedish ports and not of your concern so please drop the issue from this point forward.

That 72 hour timer can start whenever the French clans decide they want to.

You do realize we can one-port Denmark and Sweden any time we feel like it, right. And the current political climate with the Brits and Pirates not fighting each other is really boring.

France is bored.

Bovenwinds and Road Town are starting to look real nice.

Grinding port battles every night until CCCP quits is starting to look like a better option than what we're doing now, which is nothing.

[Taranis]

3 hours ago, Taurus454 said:

Once again, I, and I alone speak for Sweden.  [...]  To France, the Leewards and Bovenwinds are Swedish ports and not of your concern [...].  Of course, how you engage in diplomacy is up to you but take it from someone who has negotiated a bilateral treaty in real life, it helps immensely when one person is "empowered" to negotiate a deal.  [...]

You might want to consider a different line of work - as a negotiator, you should realize that the deal you have cut behind the scenes with the Danes was not just disingenuous but a violation of the agreement that was arrived at with France.  France agreed to what it did for a reason.  France did not agree to Leewards and Bovenwinds going to Denmark.  Need an analogy?  How about: Russian missiles in Cuba.  If you ever hope to one day rebuild the relationships you have broken, you might want to reconsider the deal you have made with your masters.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

That 72 hour timer can start whenever the French clans decide they want to.

You do realize we can one-port Denmark and Sweden any time we feel like it, right. And the current political climate with the Brits and Pirates not fighting each other is really boring.

France is bored.

Bovenwinds and Road Town are starting to look real nice.

Grinding port battles every night until CCCP quits is starting to look like a better option than what we're doing now, which is nothing.

Prates and Brits not fighting?  Where the hell you been we fight nightly?  Prob got your head stuck so far up your arse with your ego to notice but we can't get a port battle easly cause they can field over 75 players in one time zone and almost 50 in another.   While we are lucky to get 1/3 of those numbers of not half.   If ya'll are so bored than instead of bragging and picking on a 4 player nation or a one time zone nation that can field a SEA/AUS port battle slot why don't you take all that energy and attack the British your own dange self.  Last I checked they took two ports from ya'll with little to no fight, unless those are your buddies that took them?  Is France a sub clan of the British actually?  Cause I haven't been seeing many other than WO give them any trouble.   If your so great at one porting folks that aren't smaller than you than maybe come over to give British some trouble and see how well ya'll deal with them.   

@Slamz all you sound like is the Bully that throws a fit when you don't get your way and refuse to pick on some one your own size or bigger.   How about ya'll leave the Danes and Swedes to do what ever they want north of a certain line and come play with some of the bigger boys that do have players in your time zone slots of active play time.

[Taranis]

7 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Prates and Brits not fighting?  Where the hell you been we fight nightly?  Prob got your head stuck so far up your arse with your ego to notice but we can't get a port battle easly cause they can field over 75 players in one time zone and almost 50 in another.   While we are lucky to get 1/3 of those numbers of not half.   If ya'll are so bored than instead of bragging and picking on a 4 player nation or a one time zone nation that can field a SEA/AUS port battle slot why don't you take all that energy and attack the British your own dange self.  Last I checked they took two ports from ya'll with little to no fight, unless those are your buddies that took them?  Is France a sub clan of the British actually?  Cause I haven't been seeing many other than WO give them any trouble.   If your so great at one porting folks that aren't smaller than you than maybe come over to give British some trouble and see how well ya'll deal with them.   

@Slamz all you sound like is the Bully that throws a fit when you don't get your way and refuse to pick on some one your own size or bigger.   How about ya'll leave the Danes and Swedes to do what ever they want north of a certain line and come play with some of the bigger boys that do have players in your time zone slots of active play time.

"It is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Edited July 14, 2017 by Taranis

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

[blah blah]

Here's the problem:

The Aussies kicked us out of Haiti because we don't have a meaningful Aussie time zone presence.

Any attack we do on the British is going to have the same result: the Aussies will kick us out when we're asleep.

The ONE WAY we can hope to prevent this is basically to see that they are busy fighting someone else.

They should be fighting your Danish allies.

But your Danish allies have a peace treaty with the Aussies and won't fight them.

And you don't have the numbers to fight them either.

How about this:

Go tell CCCP to stop being completely worthless scrubs and to actually help you do something. Tell them to break their treaty with the British and fight. I guarantee France will be there to flank the British on one front or another if we see they are actually being engaged by a force capable of distracting them.

French clans are in British waters killing Brits but there is no point in attacking a port so long as Pirates and Danes continues to sit on their hands. We would just lose our ports if the Aussies are not being distracted.

To be clear, CCCP acted like huge douchebags for weeks so we don't like them and by extension we do not like you either. We will, however, engage in some incidental cooperation should you create a situation that allows for it. And I don't mean a weekend warrior 1-battle-and-everyone-go-home. We can't just instantly react to take advantage of a one time, one hour chance. I mean if we saw a sustained campaign start up, it would give us something to join in on.

Personally I want France to be the 3rd faction that helps push against whoever is winning the Pirate-Brit war but I look at contention every night and conclude there is no war to weigh in on. We can go poke the Brits tonight but the result will be Aussies night capping all our ports which is just the Dane war all over again.

Go kick chailang and tell him to get to work. Then maybe we'll see some fireworks on this server.

[Dharus]

9 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Here's the problem:

The Aussies kicked us out of Haiti because we don't have a meaningful Aussie time zone presence.

 

Well, in fairness, we almost won that fight.  We were down a clan who were typically active at that time.

[Slamz]

42 minutes ago, Dharus said:

Well, in fairness, we almost won that fight.  We were down a clan who were typically active at that time.

(Well I did say a meaningful Aussie time zone presence. That particular clan has not been meaningful since the reset. They can really haul a lot of coffee and pudding, though.)

[Barbancourt]

mmmm...puddddding...

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

6 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

mmmm...puddddding...

 

Its close to 90 Farenheit here. Pudding just sounds like a bad idea.

[Diggled]

8 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Prates and Brits not fighting?  Where the hell you been we fight nightly?  Prob got your head stuck so far up your arse with your ego to notice but we can't get a port battle easly cause they can field over 75 players in one time zone and almost 50 in another.   While we are lucky to get 1/3 of those numbers of not half.   If ya'll are so bored than instead of bragging and picking on a 4 player nation or a one time zone nation that can field a SEA/AUS port battle slot why don't you take all that energy and attack the British your own dange self.  Last I checked they took two ports from ya'll with little to no fight, unless those are your buddies that took them?  Is France a sub clan of the British actually?  Cause I haven't been seeing many other than WO give them any trouble.   If your so great at one porting folks that aren't smaller than you than maybe come over to give British some trouble and see how well ya'll deal with them.   

@Slamz all you sound like is the Bully that throws a fit when you don't get your way and refuse to pick on some one your own size or bigger.   How about ya'll leave the Danes and Swedes to do what ever they want north of a certain line and come play with some of the bigger boys that do have players in your time zone slots of active play time.

Classical closed minded rated-ship thinking.  Flip ports, get them in the water where you know they are at and sink them on the open sea.  Forget about the port battle, wait for them to zone in and then slaughter the screening ships.

Maybe coordinate with/hire mercenaries

You think like such a coward

Edited July 15, 2017 by Diggled

[Tenet]

8 hours ago, Slamz said:

Personally I want France to be the 3rd faction that helps push against whoever is winning the Pirate-Brit war but I look at contention every night and conclude there is no war to weigh in on. We can go poke the Brits tonight but the result will be Aussies night capping all our ports which is just the Dane war all over again.

When VCO and TF joined GB, they broke the balance of this server, they broke their word to avoid a US+GB mega-alliance, by simply absorbing a big part of US into GB. 

SKMARSH knows this is true, and this is why he is out in Global chat making threats against anyone that argues this point. Christendom knows this is true, and this is why he distracts by blaming the Developers for not merging Global with EU. It's all a distraction for a power grab, for the desire to tilt the game in their favor and win by default. 

The ICS rebellion was a distraction. This war with CCCP was a distraction. These past two threads were all one big distraction.

Stop insulting each other and open your eyes to the REAL INSULT that is the GB megathreat.

All of you French, Pirates, Danes, Dutch, Swedes have two choices:

- Keep up the squabbling and mutual insults while the GB horde laughs and makes you their bitches one by one. If you are really scared of losing some pixels in a video game, choose this route. 

- Join forces, coordinate and fight GB until two of their bigger clans agree to switch nations and bring balance to the server. You would be surprised what could be achieved when you stop trying to insult and one-up each other and work together. 

Restore proper order in the server, restore GB to it's former size, and then, after that very tough struggle, you can resolve all your other differences. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Tenet

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Tenet said:

Restore proper order in the server, restore GB to it's former size, and then, after that very tough struggle, you can resolve all your other differences. 

Why is someone from the Dutch complaining about an overpowered GB? Dutch have been in bed with them since day 1. You probably could have easily pursued some French deals early on but you made it hard when you allied with the Brits.

Oh but I'm sure you personally were out there sinking British traders left and right, helping prevent them from building up so quickly, yeah?

I am willing to bet the French have done more damage to the British than any team over the last 2 weeks. We're all up in their business on a daily basis (particularly [WO]).

[Tenet]

33 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Why is someone from the Dutch complaining about an overpowered GB?

I'm no longer Dutch, and I'm taking action, not complaining. I believe that to preserve constant fighting and growth in skill on the server, any attempts at mega-alliances and zerg-tactics need to be stopped. I'm leaving to join the front line in this struggle. If you were slightly more patient and slightly more polite to potential allies, perhaps I would have managed to convince others to join the cause. 

Please try not to jump to conclusions about people, and focus on the biggest problem. 

You are on the frontlines already? Excellent, politely pressure the rest to follow.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Tenet

[Vizzini]

1 hour ago, Tenet said:

If you were slightly more patient and slightly more polite to potential allies, perhaps I would have managed to convince others to join the cause. 

He seems like a typical Risk player , sits in Australia and tries hard to get everybody else to fight each other. For a while I wondered if he was a British spy , sewing the seeds of trouble among the French to help keep them weak. The smallest factions / countries will always need to forge alliances. It's up to the players on the smaller teams to wake up and realise the biggest teams don't need to put up with any histrionics

 

I think from a new player pov , too many old players seemed to drag baggage with them from before the wipe