White Peace - France-Denmark Trade Conflict ends

[HoneyBaddger]

17 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Danes have now violated this twice by attacking two French owned ports.

I'm sure the Pirates and the Danes are giggling to each other about this like schoolgirls but there's going to be some repercussions.

It's only a game!

[Slamz]

5 minutes ago, airborneguy said:

It's only a game!

Great! Then why isn't everyone just fighting each other?

What's with all these lame deals and gaming of the diplomacy and backstabbing? Just sink each other. Every day I'm a little closer to just having my guild go rogue, shut down all diplomatic channels and kill everything we see.

Would be 10x more fun than what the Pirates and the Danes are having us do. Jumpin' through hoops like a buncha trained poodles.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Why don't y'all just draw a line and what ever happens north of that line is Danes/Sweds business and what ever happens south is French.   Y'all are all making things way more difficult for all parties.

[The Boneless]

1 hour ago, airborneguy said:

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by The Boneless

[Dharus]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why don't y'all just draw a line and what ever happens north of that line is Danes/Sweds business and what ever happens south is French.   Y'all are all making things way more difficult for all parties.

Because what you've never seen is the ridiculous requests from Danes even as they were losing regions.  Stuff like France giving the regions with france proper for various reason that made no sense.  

What seems like a simple NAP to everyone was, in fact, a drawn out, pain in the arse, fustrating, and annoying requests that didnt mean crap... kindof like this...

We were very close to just not negotiating any more.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Dharus

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why don't y'all just draw a line and what ever happens north of that line is Danes/Sweds business and what ever happens south is French.   Y'all are all making things way more difficult for all parties.

Thank god you're here, Captain Three Weeks Ago. That is what we proposed all along. The Danish lapdogs refused it and made more and more demands instead and then poked us in the eye over OJ and SJ as a final F-U after we thought we had everything settled.

I don't know why in the world anyone wants Danes for allies. They are impossible to deal with.

[Slamz]

17 hours ago, MaxBlackHawk said:

未來交情要是好，還能舉辦活動。讓遊戲有不一樣玩法（帆船競賽ships race，自爆船追逐戰Fire ship tag player， 逆風閃砲艇作戰 against the wind of take down Gunboat operation等更多），一切娛樂等交情好在說。

[translation: "If our relationship is good in the future, we can still organsie activities. The game can also be played differently (Sail boat race, Fireship tag war, Against the wind Gunboat avoidance operation, etc, and many more), but all these games shall wait till our relationship gets better."]

I see no reason to believe our relationship will ever be good.

CCCP has taken advantage of France at every opportunity.

Temporary ownership of OJ and SJ until the Swedes could retake it would have gone a long way to mend relations. France would have gotten some marks and some Bovenwinds refits out of that arrangement because it would have taken the Swedes a while to flip it.

By breaking the treaty and directly attacking those French ports, without asking for permission from France, CCCP has doomed this relationship just as we were trying to fix it.

We will not try again.

[Duncan McFail]

2 hours ago, Slamz said:

Danes have now violated this twice by attacking two French owned ports.

I'm sure the Pirates and the Danes are giggling to each other about this like schoolgirls but there's going to be some repercussions.

Sorry, was off game for a day. Just caught up on this post. I'm not sure what the problem is with Danes taking OJ and SJ. They're getting the pb's taken care of at the same time as you guys get the French lands currently under Danish control. Then they know there can't be any trickery when they pass OJ and SJ back to the Swedes. It's not to be closer to French border to attack. They could do that from anywhere during there time. We're not up to anything sneaky and neither are the Danes. We just need some faith.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Slamz said:

Thank god you're here, Captain Three Weeks Ago. That is what we proposed all along. The Danish lapdogs refused it and made more and more demands instead and then poked us in the eye over OJ and SJ as a final F-U after we thought we had everything settled.

I don't know why in the world anyone wants Danes for allies. They are impossible to deal with.

Dude you honestly sound like a little kid with all the name callin and behavior.  Well if that is what y'all proposed before than why do y'all care what happprns above that line and to the Swede ports?   If y'all just drop it an move on instead of all this drama than Swedes get some one they trust to get the ports back from.  I wouldn't be surprise if the Danes are helping them with CM and ships any way. The line was drawn so just stay out of the affairs of anything north.  What Danes and Swedes do is there own business.  When a country makes treaties lines they don't say it's ours until you take it back.  You move out and let them have it how ever they want.

[Slamz]

40 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

I'm not sure what the problem is with Danes taking OJ and SJ.

Because the treaty very specifically states there will be no hostile port battles between France and Danes.

They immediately start up 2 port battles against France.

Just plain dumb. Realize it's you guys making this complicated. The actual plan was very simple.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Slamz

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, Slamz said:

Because the treaty very specifically states there will be no hostile port battles between France and Danes.

They immediately start up 2 port battles against France.

Reckless and stupid.

But those aren't French regions any more they are to go to Swedes.  So by default they did not attack y'all regions.   Since by your own words they are swede ports now right?

[Tenet]

3 hours ago, Slamz said:

Great! Then why isn't everyone just fighting each other?

Because one nation has ~100 active people, while the others have 60, 50, 30 or 25. 

The only balanced way to fight is to uphold some alliances. 

[Slamz]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

But those aren't French regions any more they are to go to Swedes.  So by default they did not attack y'all regions.   Since by your own words they are swede ports now right?

You know what, I'm tired of trying to explain to you what "no hostile port battles" means or what 3+ weeks of exactly this kind of dumb metagaming has done to my ability to put up with even more of it now. Much easier to just not make any more deals that involve Pirates or Danes. Go play your stupid word games with some other sucker.

Just now, Tenet said:

The only balanced way to fight is to uphold some alliances. 

We tried that. Doesn't work. They're all idiots who think "alliance" is just a way to search for loopholes for their own benefit and screws us over at every turn.

If you know anyone who wants a REAL alliance, involving actual cooperation and mutual respect, you let me know. It ain't Pirates and it ain't the Danes.

[Bach]

26 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Because one nation has ~100 active people, while the others have 60, 50, 30 or 25. 

The only balanced way to fight is to uphold some alliances. 

It is true and it isn't.  Too many players looking to "win".  Need players that just want to play.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Bach

[Barbancourt]

I'm hoping this thread will be completely irrelevant by next weekend.  Just calm down and let things sort themselves out.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Duncan McFail]

4 hours ago, Slamz said:

Because the treaty very specifically states there will be no hostile port battles between France and Danes.

They immediately start up 2 port battles against France.

Just plain dumb. Realize it's you guys making this complicated. The actual plan was very simple.

It will take the swedes days to get each of the ports. Where on the French side it took no time at all to grab BT and you already have Rosseau in pb. The Danes are just making sure each sides ports are in friendly hands as soon as possible in case anyone goes back on their word. If you were to change your mind on this peace it would only take a handful of guys to show up for a pb against the swedes to keep them from getting it. The swedes will be working on those ports as soon as they come off cool down. No funny business afoot.

[Slamz]

25 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

It will take the swedes days to get each of the ports. Where on the French side it took no time at all to grab BT and you already have Rosseau in pb. The Danes are just making sure each sides ports are in friendly hands as soon as possible in case anyone goes back on their word. If you were to change your mind on this peace it would only take a handful of guys to show up for a pb against the swedes to keep them from getting it. The swedes will be working on those ports as soon as they come off cool down. No funny business afoot.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard in at least the last 4 or 5 hours.

But yes, please continue to think we are complete idiots and actually buy into the amazing amount of absolute rubbish that flops out of your mouth. There is a certain amount of entertainment in watching you act like a used car salesman trying to dump a 1980 Oldsmobile on us that was once completely underwater in Florida while telling us it's actually a 2016 Porsche in disguise.

Fascinating, really. You should go into politics. I kind of picture you as a sort of Richard Nixon.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Slamz

[Duncan McFail]

2 minutes ago, Slamz said:

That is the stupidest thing I have heard in at least the last 4 or 5 hours.

Yes, please continue to think we are complete idiots and actually buy into the amazing amount of absolute rubbish that flops out of your mouth. There is a certain amount of entertainment in watching you act like a used car salesman trying to dump a 1980 Oldsmobile on us that was once completely underwater in Florida while telling us it's actually a 2016 Porsche in disguise.

Fascinating, really. You should go into politics. I kind of picture you as a sort of Richard Nixon.

But it's the truth. The Danes won't feel comfortable if you guys have the exchanged ports in your hands while there endo of the bargain is also in your hands. They will give it to the swedes as soon as they come off cooldown. Either way it hurts nothing. You think if they wanted to betray you it matters if they leave from SJ or their capitol during their time. I'm not trying to sell you anything except staying out of the endless loop of empty port battles and having to constantly grind them. Just give peace a chance.

[Bach]

52 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

lIt will take the swedes days to get each of the ports. Where on the French side it took no time at all to grab BT and you already have Rosseau in pb. The Danes are just making sure each sides ports are in friendly hands as soon as possible in case anyone goes back on their word. If you were to change your mind on this peace it would only take a handful of guys to show up for a pb against the swedes to keep them from getting it. The swedes will be working on those ports as soon as they come off cool down. No funny business afoot.

I'm not one for drama but I will explain my view on this.

We never had any intention of taking Bovenwinds or Leewards from the Swedes in the first place. But the war happened and the Swedes joined it on the Danes side and it was the base we needed to attack the Danish home ports.  So I spent an hour or two of my game time flipping these two ports essentially because the Dane's made me do it as they weren't going to stop the shenanigans in our back yard till we got into theirs.  So if someone is going to collect the 1 week of CM marks its going to take the Swedes to flip those back I just as soon see it was me rather than the Danes.  A decent pay back for my trouble.  However, that isn't what happened.  The Danes flipped under a treaty that doesn't let me stop them and now they collect the CMs until the Swedes eventually get around to flipping them.  This is essentially no different than had we just signed a treaty giving both ports to the Danes. Which is not what we did. 

So lets recap.  The Danes gave me an awesome deal where they take two colonies temporarily and we flip port for CMs. That sounded pretty kewl. But then it became evident they were pushing the line of that deal to permanent hold those two counties until the alliance system came back into the game.  Seriously?  This was essentially the Danes attempting to squeeze just a little more out of the deal.  Then we fought back about it and they got all offended that we weren't happy with the deal so they said they would one port us till we quit France.  That didn't work out and we spent hours of game time pushing them back where they belong.  Then came the next peace treaty as it was almost signed the Danes came back to squeeze a little more out of it and insisted we give them BT at the last minute.  Well that didn't Fly. So we started invading them.  Danes responded with basic cutter semi exploit crap and wasted hours of my game time.  Then they got into the Tribunal for using French alts? to finish a flip of their main production port in their best time frame.  Not honorable no matter how you look at it. So then we get the 40min peace treaty as the Danes try yet again to squeeze more out of us.  So we attacked them again and this time they sign it. But now they declare a loop hole that lets the swedes give them territory we were giving the swedes so they can squeeze just a little bit more out of us.

Duncan, if you can't see why we're still pissed at the Danes you aren't looking at this very hard.  They always stick their hands back into the cookie jar to get one more for themselves. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Bach

[Duncan McFail]

4 hours ago, Slamz said:

 

If you know anyone who wants a REAL alliance, involving actual cooperation and mutual respect, you let me know. It ain't Pirates and it ain't the Danes.

I'm not seeing much of this mutual respect in this thread judging from half of these posts. That is going to doom this peace very quickly. Remember @chailang uses a translator so it's hard to get perfect communication. With the language barrier there must be patience involved.

[Landomatic]

I see diplomacy is going well.  I believe the Swedes may be referring to the former deal that CCCP made with France, via ICS, which I'm assuming is no longer in play with the aforementioned 'new' hostilities from some of France.  It was to be a peace arrangement with the Danes & Swedes that also involved free trade and allied combat action against France's enemies.   As 'nu-peace' is being brokered with the voice of the other French clans now largely more involved and openly hostile, since getting more organized, I'm not sure where that leaves arrangements with the 4 man, 2 clan Swedish nation.  Personally, I don't see the merit in open hostilities with 4 dudes against 50+, but we all enjoy 'playing' the game differently as my friend molecularbiology stated previously.  Additionally, the 'former' deal was peace with the Swedes as well, as CCCP negotiated on behalf of Sweden.  I see no provisions in what I'd like to coin as 'DanishFrancoPeace 2.0' or DFP2.0 affectionately for peace with Sweden.  I can tell you that making open threats, belittling your adversaries, and general grandstanding is a failure in communication from ALL parties.  If you guys REALLY want peace, ask for it, and get ready to compromise, or don't and continue war. 

[Duncan McFail]

2 minutes ago, Bach said:

I'm not one for drama but I will explain my view on this.

We never had any intention of taking Bovenwinds or Leewards from the Swedes in the first place. But the war happened and the Swedes joined it on the Danes side and it was the base we needed to attack the Danish home ports.  So I spent an hour or two of my game time flipping these two ports essentially because the Dane's made me do it as they weren't going to stop the shenanigans in our back yard till we got into theirs.  So if someone is going to collect the 1 week of CM marks its going to take the Swedes to flip those back I just as soon see it was me rather than the Danes.  A decent pay back for my trouble.  However, that isn't what happened.  The Danes flipped under a treaty that doesn't let me stop them and now they collect the CMs until the Swedes eventually get around to flipping them.  This is essentially no different than had we just signed a treaty giving both ports to the Danes. Which is not what we did. 

So lets recap.  The Danes gave me an awesome deal where they take two colonies temporarily and we flip port for CMs. That sounded pretty kewl. But they it became evident they were pushing the line of that deal to permanent hold those two counties until the alliance system came back into the game.  Seriously?  This was essentially the Danes attempting to squeeze just a little more out of the deal.  Then we fought back about it and they got all offended that we weren't happy with the deal so they said they would one port us till we quit France.  That didn't work out and we spent hours of game time pushing them back where they belong.  Then came the next peace treaty as it was almost signed the Danes came back to squeeze a little more out of it and insisted we put their puppet ICS Jonny K in charge of all French negotiations.  Well that didn't Fly. So we started invading them.  Danes responded with basic cutter semi exploit crap and wasted hours of my game time.  Then they got into the Tribunal for using French alts? to finish a flip of their main production port in their best time frame.  Not honorable no matter how you look at it. So then we get the 40min peace treaty as the Danes try yet again to squeeze more out of us.  So we attacked them again and this time they sign it. But now they declare a loop hole that lets the swedes give them territory we were giving the swedes so they can squeeze just a little bit more out of us.

Duncan, if you can't see why we're still pissed at the Danes you aren't looking at this very hard.  They always stick their hands back into the cookie jar to get one more for themselves. 

Sorry it took longer to get a consensus on the agreement from the Dane side than I thought. They were in agreement a day earlier, but needed to wait for the weekend to hear out all their players. They had asked for a cease-fire until a decision was reached. That was denied which I understand. You didn't want to slow down your momentum in case it was disagreed. But it sounds like the biggest problem I hear is that you guys were expecting mark income and bovenwinds mats for a longer period. That shouldn't be expected. If the reasoning is the time put in then that's the best reason to let it go. With the peace there will be no more pointless exchange of ports that just swap back 4-5 days later. Overall mark generation as a nation will be more steady than before without having to grind a port and attend an empty port battle nightly.

[Bach]

18 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

I see diplomacy is going well.  I believe the Swedes may be referring to the former deal that CCCP made with France, via ICS, which I'm assuming is no longer in play with the aforementioned 'new' hostilities from some of France.  It was to be a peace arrangement with the Danes & Swedes that also involved free trade and allied combat action against France's enemies.   As 'nu-peace' is being brokered with the voice of the other French clans now largely more involved and openly hostile, since getting more organized, I'm not sure where that leaves arrangements with the 4 man, 2 clan Swedish nation.  Personally, I don't see the merit in open hostilities with 4 dudes against 50+, but we all enjoy 'playing' the game differently as my friend molecularbiology stated previously.  Additionally, the 'former' deal was peace with the Swedes as well, as CCCP negotiated on behalf of Sweden.  I see no provisions in what I'd like to coin as 'DanishFrancoPeace 2.0' or DFP2.0 affectionately for peace with Sweden.  I can tell you that making open threats, belittling your adversaries, and general grandstanding is a failure in communication from ALL parties.  If you guys REALLY want peace, ask for it, and get ready to compromise, or don't and continue war. 

Pretty much when a nation sides against you and starts screening for the nation your at war with it generally goes without saying all previous alliance deals become null and void.

Just sayin

[Landomatic]

6 minutes ago, Bach said:

I'm not one for drama but I will explain my view on this.

We never had any intention of taking Bovenwinds or Leewards from the Swedes in the first place. But the war happened and the Swedes joined it on the Danes side and it was the base we needed to attack the Danish home ports.  So I spent an hour or two of my game time flipping these two ports essentially because the Dane's made me do it as they weren't going to stop the shenanigans in our back yard till we got into theirs.  So if someone is going to collect the 1 week of CM marks its going to take the Swedes to flip those back I just as soon see it was me rather than the Danes.  A decent pay back for my trouble.  However, that isn't what happened.  The Danes flipped under a treaty that doesn't let me stop them and now they collect the CMs until the Swedes eventually get around to flipping them.  This is essentially no different than had we just signed a treaty giving both ports to the Danes. Which is not what we did. 

So lets recap.  The Danes gave me an awesome deal where they take two colonies temporarily and we flip port for CMs. That sounded pretty kewl. But then it became evident they were pushing the line of that deal to permanent hold those two counties until the alliance system came back into the game.  Seriously?  This was essentially the Danes attempting to squeeze just a little more out of the deal.  Then we fought back about it and they got all offended that we weren't happy with the deal so they said they would one port us till we quit France.  That didn't work out and we spent hours of game time pushing them back where they belong.  Then came the next peace treaty as it was almost signed the Danes came back to squeeze a little more out of it and insisted we give them BT and put their puppet ICS Jonny K in charge of all French negotiations.  Well that didn't Fly. So we started invading them.  Danes responded with basic cutter semi exploit crap and wasted hours of my game time.  Then they got into the Tribunal for using French alts? to finish a flip of their main production port in their best time frame.  Not honorable no matter how you look at it. So then we get the 40min peace treaty as the Danes try yet again to squeeze more out of us.  So we attacked them again and this time they sign it. But now they declare a loop hole that lets the swedes give them territory we were giving the swedes so they can squeeze just a little bit more out of us.

Duncan, if you can't see why we're still pissed at the Danes you aren't looking at this very hard.  They always stick their hands back into the cookie jar to get one more for themselves. 

Your details, and your presentation of what occurred here is largely conjecture and contains falsehoods. You were advised that the late night port flip that occurred was an accident. There were no Danish alts at that PB yet you and the 'other' french clans continue to grandstand on this incorrect point, because you use it to keep your misinformation campaign going; which supports and justifies some of your hostility.  Additionally, the 'other' french clans benefitted more than the supposed 'puppet' one did as almost all of the CM flips had more of the 'other' clans in them than ICS. Which by they way weren't happening at all until the Danes assisted with the flips.  I've explained this via the leadership chat, nation chat, and other direct channels for weeks now.  Yet the brilliance of my French fellows continue to disavow logic in the face of facts, which blows my mind. Additionally, as the 'Diplomacy System' will not be reintroduced into the game, we asked for clarification from the Danes as to how long they'll hold the ports, and they intonated they would return them shortly after our incursion with the Dutch was done, which I'd imagine wouldn't have taken too much time given potential round the clock battling.  This, I also personally mentioned to my leaderships French fellows.

I can appreciate the concern about the Danes taking the ports they otherwise reserved for the Swedes.  I can also see why the Danes don't trust some of the French as our nation continues to demonstrate it's inability to be cohesive for reasons I was otherwise told were in the 'past' but obviously now continue to resurface for the sake of justification and war-mongering, while our other enemies build ships and sprinkle parmesan in their popcorn bowls.

If you're worried about Danish occupation of those ports from a security perspective, and the Danes are to occupy the area so the Swedes can get 25 additional CMs daily, why not let France occupy them, and have some French diplos send the allotment to the Swedes directly? I bet the short answer would be it's a pain in the ass, but I'll reserve judgment. They otherwise get to build ships and play the game they'd like to, not get bullied by other nations, and still maintain their identity without being assimilated to a different collective, nation.

 

Also, in recent times the Danes have demonstrated to ICS, and I also believe the Pirates, and some others they keep their word.

I look forward to feedback about the suggestion and discussing it further.

 

[Bach]

2 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Sorry it took longer to get a consensus on the agreement from the Dane side than I thought. They were in agreement a day earlier, but needed to wait for the weekend to hear out all their players. They had asked for a cease-fire until a decision was reached. That was denied which I understand. You didn't want to slow down your momentum in case it was disagreed. But it sounds like the biggest problem I hear is that you guys were expecting mark income and bovenwinds mats for a longer period. That shouldn't be expected. If the reasoning is the time put in then that's the best reason to let it go. With the peace there will be no more pointless exchange of ports that just swap back 4-5 days later. Overall mark generation as a nation will be more steady than before without having to grind a port and attend an empty port battle nightly.

Its not the CMs. Those are just a symbolic last cookie from the jar.  Its the whole style the Danes took in their approach to dealing with us.  They changed the first deal. Then THEY tried to one port us. Then they essentially jerked us around on the second and third peace deals. They used crap semi-exploit tactic to fight us. Then they pushed the Swedish loophole to poke us again. Does it really matter if the Swedes take the ports from the Danes or the French? 

I'm not jumping for joy that this peace deal is stopping the port ping pong. We figured out how to win it after they threatened to one port us.  2 weeks from now they would have been one ported.  This peace deal isn't protecting France from the Danes. Its protecting them from us.  Now what's done is done and we'll abide by it. But don't expect us to be happy about it.