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White Peace - France-Denmark Trade Conflict ends


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45 minutes ago, Bach said:

Hehe. No need for to much drama we all knew this was coming eventually.

Well it may not be fair to blame Chialang. Seems Fasti was behind the Pearl Harbour move.  Sure we may have attacked pirates who were allied to the Danes. But that doesn't remove the 72hr notice clause in our NAP.  Honor would have dictated simply dropping the 72hr notice and then proceeding.  The Pearl Harbour style attack just makes CCCP look bad.

 

Always felt that you were the calm head in France. Even though our two nations are at war and it seems people wish to point blame and make personal attacks, I just want to say France should be very grateful to have an individual such as yourself and it would be an honour to either sink or be sunk by you. 

 

Now i do see where you are coming from with the whole "honour" bit. The previous agreement was made by CCCP on the Danish side. Neither SCAR, HOST, or even DICS signed to such an agreement and no effort was made to include them. 

Edited by Davos Seasworth
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20 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

Now i do see where you are coming from with the whole "honour" bit. The previous agreement was made by CCCP on the Danish side. Neither SCAR, HOST, or even DICS signed to such an agreement and no effort was made to include them. 

It's an honorable thing to maintain a reasonable respect for your nation mates agreements with others. For example, when BLACK made agreement with WO. Technically it didn't include any other French clans. But it was still respected by the others.  Now it may be a loophole that SCAR, HOST and DICS are not in the agreement but you certainly can not say they were not aware of it. Also, I find it unlikely that SCAR, HOST and DICS were ever signatory to the original CCCP-BLACK agreement they claim to be honoring.  So it's a bit of the new clans coming in and then choosing which of the existing agreements they wish to honor and which not.  Nothing wrong with that. But the possibility to honor both agreements did exist in the 72hr break clause.  Not implementing it before CCCP ships participate in attacks on France falls squarely on CCCP captains shoulders.  Does any of the that matter in the grand scheme?  Perhaps not. But much of the drama around the first Dane v France conflict centered around honor of agreements made.  So in this particular instance it was a battle of whom could hold out NOT breaking the agreement longer. Turns out CCCP lost that contest. Though I personally think it was due to much external influences.

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1 hour ago, Bach said:

It's an honorable thing to maintain a reasonable respect for your nation mates agreements with others. For example, when BLACK made agreement with WO. Technically it didn't include any other French clans. But it was still respected by the others.  Now it may be a loophole that SCAR, HOST and DICS are not in the agreement but you certainly can not say they were not aware of it. Also, I find it unlikely that SCAR, HOST and DICS were ever signatory to the original CCCP-BLACK agreement they claim to be honoring.  So it's a bit of the new clans coming in and then choosing which of the existing agreements they wish to honor and which not.  Nothing wrong with that. But the possibility to honor both agreements did exist in the 72hr break clause.  Not implementing it before CCCP ships participate in attacks on France falls squarely on CCCP captains shoulders.  Does any of the that matter in the grand scheme?  Perhaps not. But much of the drama around the first Dane v France conflict centered around honor of agreements made.  So in this particular instance it was a battle of whom could hold out NOT breaking the agreement longer. Turns out CCCP lost that contest. Though I personally think it was due to much external influences.

Exactly. We got a war. No point in going over minuscule details that currently are irrelative. 

24 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

*puts the most surprised face mask and just stares in theatrical disbelief *

... how could you...!

What is this referencing to? 

Edited by Davos Seasworth
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7 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:
31 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

*puts the most surprised face mask and just stares in theatrical disbelief *

... how could you...!

What is this referencing to? 

To smuggling of debts and decay of uncommon currency.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bach said:

It's an honorable thing to maintain a reasonable respect for your nation mates agreements with others. 

I completely agree with you. Which is weirdly ironic as your clan's position on this matter is one of hypocrisy and eroded integrity, regardless of how you word it or wiggle out of your blatant disregard for the peace that was made before Bork and Purge needed to make their own; while crying wolf about the Terre regions which I'm told were useless to all parties involved.

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57 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

I completely agree with you. Which is weirdly ironic as your clan's position on this matter is one of hypocrisy and eroded integrity, regardless of how you word it or wiggle out of your blatant disregard for the peace that was made before Bork and Purge needed to make their own; while crying wolf about the Terre regions which I'm told were useless to all parties involved.

Well, WO asking "HEY DONT SHOOT THESE GUYS" is a bit different from ICS saying "HEY WE'RE GIVING THOSE GUYS TWO COUNTIES THAT SOME OF YOU HAPPEN TO BE LIVING IN". 

But I get your point.

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The Terres are far from useless.  They had great economic value and provided a valuable buffer to the north, but additionally there was also the contemptuous attitude of CCCP lording it over France which was intolerable.  Anyhow, it is moot now since the game has changed entirely.  Nobody knows where we go from here, but we do know that there's no going back.

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BT and GT are good for war supplies (granted alts can do that work). BT was additionally useful because of Aves. When we needed to teleport home from Dutch waters, tow-to-port towards Aves was the quickest way (and then from an outpost in Aves, you're in FR). And a lot of people were using GT + La Des as a money farm and shipyard at the start of the server -- basically the French Belize. So when ICS surrendered those ports, it pissed off a lot of French.

At the time, nobody really knew anyone so we didn't want to step on toes. ICS made a deal and while we didn't sign it or agree to it, we let it sit at first. It changed when CCCP said they changed their minds and we could only have them back if Alliances came back into the game, so never. That's when we took them back and forced CCCP to give them up. 

They are less useful today, of course.

We don't really need money. We have alts for war materials. We live in free ports and rarely go back home.

We never really did understand why CCCP wanted them, though, unless it was Aves as a launching point?

We don't frankly understand why they want them today. Unless they plan to challenge the Pirates for the #1 spot, it's just pac manning the dots in empty port battles. So 2016!

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35 minutes ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

French broke agreement with Pirates as well. Simple. What goes around comes around.

Only agreement I know of was WO's and that was only so long as France had a port in Haiti.

If you're talking about pre-reset stuff, that was a completely different set of players.

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1 hour ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

It is a problem for you, because your ports are being taken as a result of this broken agreement.

Not like I could do anything about it.  Oh well.  They can take dots where you get to look at primitive blue UI screens, but they can't take the sea. 

 

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4 hours ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

It is a problem for you, because your ports are being taken as a result of this broken agreement.

Most ridiculous post patch statement yet.  What it will do is the exact same thing we're doing for the pirates right now. Its just going to remove the PVE players. Most of which already just joined the Danes.  There are no hard core pvp players living out of the French ports. If they were they would have been sailing 2hours a day to pvp off Mortimer Town.  I abandoned almost all my French ports over a month ago to free up slots for free ports.  I'm probably not alone.

No one is actually going to get hurt by sustained night flips anymore. The Devs did a pretty good job in the way they adjusted the econ system.  The game is now more about pvp and less about owning dots like last year.

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6 hours ago, Jean Pual Vilvenue said:

With WO there was

@Jean Pual Vilvenue @Duncan McFail

Unfortunately you are incorrect. There was no NAP with BLACK post the Haiti loss. Le Grand/Lone Wolf asked KoC point blank and he was told point blank (the day after the loss) that our agreement existed while we held Haiti. WO will honor any agreements that we make, and will honor them today, if you can provide some separate agreement I'm not taking into account.

Following Duncan helping mediate the Chailang NAP we discussed moving on a British Les Cayes, I wanted to come take Les Cayes as a forward base against the Brits, but the other clan leaders didn't have any interest, so we shifted direction and that new potential pact never materialized.

This scuffle we are having is nothing personal, we just want to sink the big aggressive nation, since Pirates are king of the hill right now, the bulls eye appears to be on your back. I'm sure everyone's figured out by now that France enjoys being the wild card, and we don't care about the dots, or the PB's. We've all been there and done that on EU1. We just want to fight in the OW; the bigger the fight the better.

The Danes moving on us, is just another proxy war that will result in massive AI grinding, with no content. They never moved on the previous British Aussies, who were their only real source of engagement in their timezone. Now that they have formed a giant oceanic block, they've relegated themselves to PvE and trading due to the time zone differences with the rest of the player base.

In any case, I've had more fun sinking the pirates this week than I have sinking the brits in the last two weeks, you guys have so many more ships concentrated in one area than anyone. See you on the ocean, o7.

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4 hours ago, Rabman said:

@Jean Pual Vilvenue @Duncan McFail

Unfortunately you are incorrect. There was no NAP with BLACK post the Haiti loss. Le Grand/Lone Wolf asked KoC point blank and he was told point blank (the day after the loss) that our agreement existed while we held Haiti. WO will honor any agreements that we make, and will honor them today, if you can provide some separate agreement I'm not taking into account.

Following Duncan helping mediate the Chailang NAP we discussed moving on a British Les Cayes, I wanted to come take Les Cayes as a forward base against the Brits, but the other clan leaders didn't have any interest, so we shifted direction and that new potential pact never materialized.

This scuffle we are having is nothing personal, we just want to sink the big aggressive nation, since Pirates are king of the hill right now, the bulls eye appears to be on your back. I'm sure everyone's figured out by now that France enjoys being the wild card, and we don't care about the dots, or the PB's. We've all been there and done that on EU1. We just want to fight in the OW; the bigger the fight the better.

The Danes moving on us, is just another proxy war that will result in massive AI grinding, with no content. They never moved on the previous British Aussies, who were their only real source of engagement in their timezone. Now that they have formed a giant oceanic block, they've relegated themselves to PvE and trading due to the time zone differences with the rest of the player base.

In any case, I've had more fun sinking the pirates this week than I have sinking the brits in the last two weeks, you guys have so many more ships concentrated in one area than anyone. See you on the ocean, o7.

There doesn't have to be a NAP or an agreement with BLACK. When I approached you guys I stated the Danes are full allies and we'd have to come down if a resolution wasn't met. When you guys flipped Cap Francois into port battle that is a declaration of war. Did you guys really think it would be okay to flip our ports and still be cool with the Danes? Do you really think we're not going to take it personally when you ally with Brits, US, and Spanish to camp our capitol 24/7? Either way you can continue having fun camping our capitol area while those meaningless blue dots disappear. Nothing personal we just enjoy the RvR.

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5 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

There doesn't have to be a NAP or an agreement with BLACK. When I approached you guys I stated the Danes are full allies and we'd have to come down if a resolution wasn't met. When you guys flipped Cap Francois into port battle that is a declaration of war. Did you guys really think it would be okay to flip our ports and still be cool with the Danes? Do you really think we're not going to take it personally when you ally with Brits, US, and Spanish to camp our capitol 24/7? Either way you can continue having fun camping our capitol area while those meaningless blue dots disappear. Nothing personal we just enjoy the RvR.

You take blue dots, red takes black dots, green takes black dots, blue takes maroon dots (danes).   Lots of dots changing colors.  

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10 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

There doesn't have to be a NAP or an agreement with BLACK. When I approached you guys I stated the Danes are full allies and we'd have to come down if a resolution wasn't met. When you guys flipped Cap Francois into port battle that is a declaration of war. Did you guys really think it would be okay to flip our ports and still be cool with the Danes? Do you really think we're not going to take it personally when you ally with Brits, US, and Spanish to camp our capitol 24/7? Either way you can continue having fun camping our capitol area while those meaningless blue dots disappear. Nothing personal we just enjoy the RvR.

@Duncan McFail my comment was addressing @Jean Pual Vilvenue saying, WO had broken some agreement with Black, which we have not. The remainder is fine, everyone enjoys their own aspect of the game, happy sailing.

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3 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

When you guys flipped Cap Francois into port battle that is a declaration of war. 

It's like this:

We're not lawyers. We come up with pretty reasonable "treaties" that take about 5 minutes to write. The treaty said nothing about the safety of pirates or pirate ports or what happens if allies get attacked. It said the treaty could be honorably ended with a 72 hour warning, and that was it.

If you want to sit here and play word games and go on about how such and such event triggered such and such hidden clause then what I'm really hearing is that next time we make a deal involving pirates or CCCP, we need to hire a lawyer and really make a rock solid treaty with no loopholes at all and spend a couple hours on it.
 

We are not going to do that.


You have made it clear that you are going to make us put more effort into dealing with you than we are prepared to put up with in a video game. In order to keep our lives simple, we will simply not deal with you at all any more. Pirate and CCCP trade ships will be sent to the bottom of the ocean until such time as we independently decide to stop, good day sir.

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11 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

There doesn't have to be a NAP or an agreement with BLACK. When I approached you guys I stated the Danes are full allies and we'd have to come down if a resolution wasn't met. When you guys flipped Cap Francois into port battle that is a declaration of war. Did you guys really think it would be okay to flip our ports and still be cool with the Danes?

 

You aren't relevant to the agreement CCCP made.  They were free to give notice, and we have always expected them to invade eventually, one way or another.  (I actually wondered if they had stopped playing)  The swedes had been telegraphing that for days.  There has never been anything "cool" about the Danes.  They have always made their intention to subjugate us very clear. 

 

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