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“Being Prepared…” and Norfolk’s hard lesson


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If you want the short version go straight to the bottom of the page….

 

First, grab yourself a glass of red wine…

You can tell you’re not dead by learning something new every day, and if you can’t then you’re only worm fodder in waiting. Not quite Frank Zappa but near enough. Yesterday had a great fight with @Iroquois Confederacy on PvP Global just outside Port Morant and boy did I get a lesson. It was a fight that was long overdue egos a go-go and you know the rest. I was just patrolling up and down K/PR to PM and back just to make it more difficult for @koltes  to get his third rookie scalp of the night. When I heard that a Spanish Marauder in a Surprise was inbound from La Navesse, couldn’t believe one’s luck…!

 

Tail of the Tape…

I don’t have any assets in the K/PR region just the Indefatigable given to help my addiction by my dealer (ref The Junkie & his Dealer). So, Indefatigable versus a Surprise let’s think here. Not an excuse but my preference would be the Essex over the Indef. This is going to be a simple back street knife fight, not a Gentleman’s Duel at twelve paces.

Like @koltes here @Iroquois Confederacy uses a Surprise to sink Peers and Lower. She’s also nimble enough to cap much larger frigates who are slower to prepare for boarding with a good base crew of 240. A surprise (no pun intended) boarding attempt works with or without marines getting that first attack round off and follow through. @Iroquois Confederacy needs to close in on me fast and jump. The longer the knife fight the risky the encounter…

My Indef not ideal but was sort of prepped for @koltes so can’t complain. Gun deck 26x 3-24-L (3rd Class, 24pds, Long). The Weather Deck 18x 5-12-M. Front Chasers 2x 6-9-L with Stern 2x 6-9-M. The Longs for accurate damage, the mediums for reload speed defense and close in damage effect.

 

Square off…

It’s a hazy chilly dawn morning in Jamaica. I’m just South half a square off Port Morant, fist glass of French red of the day. I see him just passing the tower east inbound… its him @Iroquois Confederacy “BEAT TO QUARTERS….”. He sees the Cult Clan Leader also and we start a game of Chicken, full speed towards each other.

Remember I need to tag him but not be to close in when dropped to BATTLE. He needs to tag me, be close in and remain close in when dropped. We meet both spin tag, both turn with wind… drop. I believe the advantage was mine at the drop, I’m half way between him and the circles edge.

 

Knife drawn, blood pumping…

We are both “On the Bow” with wind, countdown begins. Left side load Double Charge. FULL Sails set, Right side Double Ball. Check Map, telescope check @Iroquois Confederacy. Mrs nChance pops in asks for my Credit Card, going take her BFF on a shop and spar day…

“Like I give a fcuk I’m about to be in a knife fight with one of the best here…”

“Virtual knife...? Norf you’re a dick. Don’t wait up dinners in the dog…”

 

Battle Begins…

Quick hit “T” Depower Sails and turn yards edge on to the wind. This creates a near stationary boat with full sails set. [F5] Bow, Stern, Starboard (left) sides stops crew loading. When sails are FULL at 100% [F5] right side with Double Ball. When all done start boarding Prep [9] and turnoff [7] gunnery.

From a stationary position, “on the Bow” the gun platform couldn’t be better set. [x] out top deck and targeted the Surprise with the Longs. Just over the 250m range. [V] Back to front fire delivery. 1x range shot, and let go the rest…. Look at Telescope view damage.

[X] Bottom deck open top deck, same again. Quickly reload Double Ball this time. Start receiving incoming from Surprise. His right side is a mess and center health damaged taken. I’ve a few scratches, but too far away for him at present. OK think, good start…

 

Dangerous, Norfolk thinking…

I know I can’t out run him so why not do what he wants? Close in and board. I’m reloading Double Ball and have the same on the right and Prepping is under way. His sails go up, and he starts a turn into me. I’d hope he’s thinking @Norfolk nChance will still be reloading all around. Will let the sails go [F] and [T] for fast acceleration to give distance to deliver another range broadside at the Surprise… But he can’t turn or he becomes a Volvo in a wind tunnel.

He’s ( @Iroquois Confederacy ) probably assessing structural damage. Yes, Planking took a big hit even the center health but no leaks and 5 crew losses so what. Close in and turn, @Norfolk nChance in the tank is toast.

 

… the last and final round….

Trimming down a long Battle Report. @Iroquois Confederacy shown some beautiful handling of the Surprise has managed to move in close and done some damage crew loss to me from 350 down to 275-ish but more importantly my Stern is gone. I [5] and [3] to repair crew. The Repair Ratio for Indef is Hull 14, Rigs 17 and Rum 105. I’ve loaded 28-17-105. So, Rum will take 75 leaving 30 with cool down these are a waste and just extra weight. But I needed to gamble here…

Side note, crew handling is really important in knife fights. Switching off routines while predicting what and where you will need something is a skill that’s not a natural talent. It’s really hard work. The Indefectible at 350 crew I switched off routines but as I lose crew demands and stresses start to take their toll. At 275… Sail Crew, Gun Crew and Prep Boarding Crew is an impossible mountain to manage. Here is where @koltes and @Iroquois Confederacy et al are at their most lethal.

The Surprise is a bit of mess. Sides down, main health down crew down, but he’s keeping her on my 6 am stuck. I know this close in either a double deck double ball delivers he’s swimming home. The Surprise wouldn’t survive. I feel ok apart from stern and crew which is replenishing. Had to hot foot it… so both left and right sides are part loaded. and under crewed sails and toping up prepping again as he’s coming in real close…

 

Gambling with the Deadman’s Hand…

My Indef is between 20’ to 30’ off close Hauled into the wind. The Surprise is coming from my back left round to back right. I know its gonna hurt but once he’s round my right hopefully I can fire the double ball and end it…. STOP the guy know this. That arc he’s on he’ll use to round off his right and away. I need to trap him quick. OK full sails double tap [Q], Double tap [D] rudder right over. Basically, fully turning the ship into IRONs. I level up horizontal to the wind all sails. Rudder Centered. She starts reversing backwards brilliantly. @Iroquois Confederacy well-timed and calculated arc is out the window, but I will still take a hit first…

I’ve got him, I know he know he’s done fore. He won’t escape. He lets fly with the shot into my stern. My men shout in pain, He crosses my right Back to front two deck full double ball broadside FIRE, FIRE….

Nothing, nothing… wtf. I look top left CREW SHOCK. Look bottom LEFT CREW 98. It was 325 just seconds before. One rake took 222 crew out in one go…!!! Can’t repair can’t fire. He boards one round it’s all over…

The wrecked stern, while prepping for boarding opens up the crew to a really big rake loss. Both Iro and I had never seen such a loss before, but hard lesson learned…

 

In Closing…

My apologies for the full length Battle Report, but we both had so much fun here and I wanted to try to a different style of reporting. I hope you enjoyed reading my hard learned lesson as much as I did. If I might impart a word of advice to new players. To get better at PvP or PvE battles you need to get out there. If you’re not getting sunk by better players or stronger AI levels on a regular basis you are not pushing hard enough.

After server restart today, grab a boat at K/PR sail to PM find @koltes and try to sink him. When you are swimming back twenty minutes later to port pm him say GF and what did I do wrong? Grab another ship and repeat…

I just wanted to thank @Iroquois Confederacy for a “gf” and I want you buy me an Essex also what did I do wrong? How can I improve for our next encounter?

.... Also I'd like to thank [ELITE] for the piss taking afterwards, @koltes and YOU the Naval Action Community for making a great game even better.

 

Thank you

Norfolk nChance [ELITE]

Ps @admin this is a bloody good game, you stick to your guns. I’m an addict… o7

 

The Short Version…

You are kidding me, right? Seriously you want the short version, that’s like watching a Porno without a Storyline….

Stern gone, huge crew loss exposure if prepping for boarding… be careful

Now please go back and read the whole post.

 

 

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Summary: Surp vs Indefatigable has just one end (Indy is toasted) unless surp is sailed by a perfect idiot.
 

Analysis: in OS PVP firepower and tank is less important than speed AND turn rate.

 

Lessons:

1) try to put in OS PVP ships not only speed upgrades BUT ALSO turning upgrades

2) for God's sake, never, ever ... ever (did I say ever?) take a ship that turn like a brick in dangerous waters, no matter how tanky or gunned it may be!

3) a speed capped surprise sailed by a competent player is the most dangerous ship around in 1 vs 1. Only another speed capped surprise or a group can kill it (except some on purpose tweaked "against the wind" fitted 5th rate, but that's confidential information).

 

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Side note be carfull about sailing around with action boarding perp, when you are in boarding you will suffer higher crew losses. That is why that grap broadside in your stern was so deadly. Giveing out that super slow Indis to everyone is a bit of a evil joke when handing out those fast bermuda surprises as well

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1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

How can I improve for our next encounter?

My tips on how to deal with smaller, faster, more maneuvrable ships is the following: 

Always use Longs. The added range and penetration can and will come in handy. 
Make sure to spawn at a distance, don't spawn right next to the enemy because then he will have all the advantage. 

You should know the Penetration values of the cannons you carry up to 500 meters, and you should know the default mast thickness of the ship you are fighting. 
You either demast, or chain, the smaller ship. Your cannons will inflict heavy sail damage with chain and there is a good chance your cannons will be big enough to demast the smaller ship. 
- You do this to slow the smaller ship down and make it less maneuvrable. Basically if you succeed in this, you have the advantage. 

Practice with a friend the following scenario; 
You take Indefatigable, friend takes Surprise. (Whether you use your cannons or no is up to you). 
Let the Surprise get on your stern and see if you can shake it off. With enough practice you'll come up with a few way to trick the Surprise into overshooting. (Though, if your fighting an extremely skilled player there is practically no way to shake him off. So the priority is to not let him on your stern in the first place.) 

Cheers and good luck next time! 
Tommy. ^.^

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Dude, every time I read your posts im cracking up laughing lol
I'll make few comments with your permission without making this a "guide how to sink Koltes" :D  

 

20 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Remember I need to tag him but not be to close in when dropped to BATTLE. He needs to tag me, be close in and remain close in when dropped. We meet both spin tag, both turn with wind… drop. I believe the advantage was mine at the drop, I’m half way between him and the circles edge.
Actually this is not entirely true. Solo hunting Surp will most often start further away from you to wait out first 3 mins to ensure that no one has joined the fight. If he commits right away and get his sails holed like a Swedish Cheese and someone has joined the fight - he is gone. Right @Iroquois Confederacy  :lol:?
 

 

Quick hit “T” Depower Sails and turn yards edge on to the wind. This creates a near stationary boat with full sails set. [F5] Bow, Stern, Starboard (left) sides stops crew loading. When sails are FULL at 100% [F5] right side with Double Ball. When all done start boarding Prep [9] and turnoff [7] gunnery.
Here is your first mistake. You stopped. Indef has horrible turning. Your task is to prevent Surp from getting on your back. You can't do that while you are stationary.

 

From a stationary position, “on the Bow” the gun platform couldn’t be better set. [x] out top deck and targeted the Surprise with the Longs. Just over the 250m range. [V] Back to front fire delivery. 1x range shot, and let go the rest…. Look at Telescope view damage.
That's fine you've dealt some damage, but damage means nothing if he hasn't sunk. So if you dealt 90% and he is still afloat and just as nimble he can do exact same things with you as if he had 100% armor. Now you have wasted your broadside that didn't kill him. You were stationary and therefore you allowed him to get on your stern. At this state I assume he was targeting your sails which went to about 85-90%. This means your slow turning washtab just lost another 10-15% of turning.

 

I know I can’t out run him so why not do what he wants? Close in and board. I’m reloading Double Ball and have the same on the right and Prepping is under way. His sails go up, and he starts a turn into me. I’d hope he’s thinking @Norfolk nChance will still be reloading all around.
Nah, he is thinking that he is ready to sacrifice some armor to get on your back after which you are half doomed because now you are as agile as pregnant cow. Probably giving you his undamaged side too to mitigate damage received.

 

Trimming down a long Battle Report. @Iroquois Confederacy shown some beautiful handling of the Surprise has managed to move in close and done some damage crew loss to me from 350 down to 275-ish but more importantly my Stern is gone.
Yup, you have to take out stern armor to take out crew efficiently after.


 

My Indef is between 20’ to 30’ off close Hauled into the wind. The Surprise is coming from my back left round to back right. I know its gonna hurt but once he’s round my right hopefully I can fire the double ball and end it…. STOP the guy know this. That arc he’s on he’ll use to round off his right and away. I need to trap him quick. OK full sails double tap [Q], Double tap [D] rudder right over.
Again, your sails where down. There are almost no circumstances when you will need to do this ever. The only time is when you want the enemy to overshoot you supposedly avoiding boarding. You can hit full sail, but still be slow for quite some time. Idef is too heavy to take off fast, thats why you must maintain speed. Even with low crew you can sail and turn as fast buying you time to reload.

 

I’ve got him, I know he know he’s done fore. He won’t escape. He lets fly with the shot into my stern. My men shout in pain, He crosses my right Back to front two deck full double ball broadside FIRE, FIRE….
Nothing, nothing… wtf. I look top left CREW SHOCK. Look bottom LEFT CREW 98. It was 325 just seconds before. One rake took 222 crew out in one go…!!! Can’t repair can’t fire. He boards one round it’s all over…

This happened most likely because you were too slow and he could perfectly line up on your stern and connect all shots.

 

 

20 hours ago, victor said:

Summary: Surp vs Indefatigable has just one end (Indy is toasted) unless surp is sailed by a perfect idiot.
Not true mate. I had to disengage few fights when players knew how to sail Indef. It maintains speed well due to its weight. You can still out maneuver enough to have a broadside, win wind position etc.
 

Analysis: in OS PVP firepower and tank is less important than speed AND turn rate.
Solo, small fleet speed means  survival
1n1 agility is everything, but you can take this advantage away by demasting, damaging sails or smashing the rudder.
However in fleets 4vs4 when your team mates look after each other and dont let enemy to camp your stern armor, angling and the shooting skill is the pure winner.

 

Lessons:

1) try to put in OS PVP ships not only speed upgrades BUT ALSO turning upgrades
To some degree. If you are in fleet then turning is a good addition. But if you are all by yourself then everything should be speed dedicated else you will not be able to survive. You wont get all the targets, but your win/lose ration will be 99/1 because you will be able to disengage when shite hits the fan.\

2) for God's sake, never, ever ... ever (did I say ever?) take a ship that turn like a brick in dangerous waters, no matter how tanky or gunned it may be!
Shhhh :P
 

3) a speed capped surprise sailed by a competent player is the most dangerous ship around in 1 vs 1. Only another speed capped surprise or a group can kill it (except some on purpose tweaked "against the wind" fitted 5th rate, but that's confidential information).
True that, but any ship that is faster than anything is a pain to fight. Before patch my Reno was the monster. KPR population used to call it "that BLACK Reno" meaning BLACK is sailing and because it had Brest Harbor paint... The patch with its speed cap has killed it :( 

 

 

18 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

My tips on how to deal with smaller, faster, more maneuvrable ships is the following: 

Always use Longs. The added range and penetration can and will come in handy. 
Make sure to spawn at a distance, don't spawn right next to the enemy because then he will have all the advantage.

I would only engage in very close if I know for sure I wont be ganked in the first 3 mins. Normally I will start with a distance and be patient. Its a good time to talk to your enemy. Its amazing what chat can reveal about your opponent's character  and help you to predict his fighting temperament.



Practice with a friend the following scenario; 
You take Indefatigable, friend takes Surprise. (Whether you use your cannons or no is up to you). 
Let the Surprise get on your stern and see if you can shake it off. With enough practice you'll come up with a few way to trick the Surprise into overshooting. (Though, if your fighting an extremely skilled player there is practically no way to shake him off. So the priority is to not let him on your stern in the first place.)

@Norfolk nChance write this down, frame it and hang it on your wall :) 

 

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There's a lot to unpack here, and I'm not sure where to start.  First, I feel honored that you took the time to write up a report, and one, admittedly, so flattering as it was.

I know a lot of people break it down into, "if this, then do this."  I'm not sure that I do.  Like the Aubrey/Maturin novels, there are scientific sailors, and those who sail by feel.  I'm more of the second one.  I generally know when I can pull something off from experience, rather than from a cold analysis.

That said, the other advice in here is great.  My only other recommendation is to really know the whistles for what means what.  The boarding prep whistle is incredibly distinctive, so you should know about it almost immediately.  But so will your enemy know yours, if they're worth their salt.

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Damn, what a great read. Could picture the entire scene in vivid colours like looking at naval action museum pieces.

Now, as I see it and maybe totally off here, the less nimble and more powerful guns should do best keeping centered with the wind perfectly on yer back and turning to beams whenever needed.

Will bleed speed when needed with yards usage, will keep enough reserve wind to make the stern angle turns, will open up rolling from the back on opponent over takes.

 

 

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Absolutely Priceless feedback, thank you all. Am truly humbled 

I think I could sell tickets to ROUND2… but first I’m currently “Whistling while I work” stay tuned.

 

Norfolk.

 

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2 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

That said, the other advice in here is great.  My only other recommendation is to really know the whistles for what means what.  The boarding prep whistle is incredibly distinctive, so you should know about it almost immediately.  But so will your enemy know yours, if they're worth their salt.

Knowing that and the fear some have when they hear it saved me more times than I can count.  There is no whistle when you turn it off. I would pop it on and off and watch some one pull away from me suddenly a lot of time giving me that belly to put leaks in or turn into a good stern shot or even more line the mast up for me. Many times folks will pop there board prep when they hear some one else do it and now they have crews that will take more damage when I empty my broad side into them, turn off depower and push right past them or any chance to pull me.   There a lot of dirty little tricks we can do like this.  Even had another clan mate set up with grape on the weak side of a ship when I pop board on and than off....he graped the guy while I used full double charge/ball on the guy instead of boarding him....when you get them to drop crew they can't man guns or other things either.  

I'll add my 2 cents about something.  The guns you had picked I keep all longs for OW PvP ships that aren't brawler.  Though with the 24 lb and 18 lb combo if your going to brawl make the 24's M and the 18's L instead.  The longs on the top deck has better range and accuracy when makeing shots cause some times if your turning or got a lot of roll your bottom deck will be shooting the water.  The M/L combo on some guns and this works with 24/18's gives them all the same reload too.  YOu heavy hitting guns are reloading as fast as the 18 longs do so you can give them a full broadside of all your guns not just one deck or the other.  When your shooting some one from a distance just turn off the bottom deck and snip with the top deck.  Save's your reloads for when you get closer and a better shot.  I'm all about crew managment when I fight.  It's my one good thing, to make up for my suckage at proper manual sailing.   

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There's a lot to be said for unified reloads.  I run medium 6's on my Surprise, believe it or not.  It frees up a lot of crew, which gives me a buffer soak up some damage.  Since I tend to close up quickly anyway, the medium 6's work fine.  (I think 32 Carros would use too much crew and have too long of a reload, and I'd lose my unified reload)

Like the idea of playing mind games with whistles.

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Knowing that and the fear some have when they hear it saved me more times than I can count.  There is no whistle when you turn it off. I would pop it on and off and watch some one pull away from me suddenly a lot of time giving me that belly to put leaks in or turn into a good stern shot or even more line the mast up for me. Many times folks will pop there board prep when they hear some one else do it and now they have crews that will take more damage when I empty my broad side into them, turn off depower and push right past them or any chance to pull me.   There a lot of dirty little tricks we can do like this.  Even had another clan mate set up with grape on the weak side of a ship when I pop board on and than off....he graped the guy while I used full double charge/ball on the guy instead of boarding him....when you get them to drop crew they can't man guns or other things either.  

I'll add my 2 cents about something.  The guns you had picked I keep all longs for OW PvP ships that aren't brawler.  Though with the 24 lb and 18 lb combo if your going to brawl make the 24's M and the 18's L instead.  The longs on the top deck has better range and accuracy when makeing shots cause some times if your turning or got a lot of roll your bottom deck will be shooting the water.  The M/L combo on some guns and this works with 24/18's gives them all the same reload too.  YOu heavy hitting guns are reloading as fast as the 18 longs do so you can give them a full broadside of all your guns not just one deck or the other.  When your shooting some one from a distance just turn off the bottom deck and snip with the top deck.  Save's your reloads for when you get closer and a better shot.  I'm all about crew managment when I fight.  It's my one good thing, to make up for my suckage at proper manual sailing.   

Funny when I decide to run 5th rates, I like mixed gun setups.  Longs on the gun deck and carros on the weather deck. 

This way I have the range to do what is needed, and the power for when in close.  BUT only on ships with a real weather deck gun mount, not like the Reno which has what 3 guns per side on the weather deck.  

But Medium guns are by far very under rated guns.  You can get a lot of penetration with them when used with the double charge and one penetration perk.  

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8 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

 

That said, the other advice in here is great.  My only other recommendation is to really know the whistles for what means what.  The boarding prep whistle is incredibly distinctive, so you should know about it almost immediately.  But so will your enemy know yours, if they're worth their salt.

I love when people are close enough I can hear their boatswain give commands, like when they change the guns from locked to focused, or when they sound boarding, or when the are reloaded and fire.  Yes you can hear him yell, "FIRE!".

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50 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Funny when I decide to run 5th rates, I like mixed gun setups.  Longs on the gun deck and carros on the weather deck. 

This way I have the range to do what is needed, and the power for when in close.  BUT only on ships with a real weather deck gun mount, not like the Reno which has what 3 guns per side on the weather deck.  

But Medium guns are by far very under rated guns.  You can get a lot of penetration with them when used with the double charge and one penetration perk.  

I have two speed builds I like for the Surprise and one set up is to run all long 6's on it and I do this with the reno.  These are the light as a feather ships that are meant for tagging and keeping some one in a fight until the group catches up.  Though on my more solo run I do the same. 9 longs on the bottem and Carros on the top deck. I just keep them off until I get beside some one and than use them to rip into armor and grape them.

But the bigger ships suffer on getting rang on the the lower decks compared to some of the smaller ships that the roll works in there favor to get longer ranged shots.

With the reno I tend to turn off the top deck any but if I run longs on it I leave those top deck 6th's off. It's all about crew management and making the ship as light as you can.  I can run all my decks on the reno and not turn anything off and still have marines too.  The Surprise has a little better crew management you have to play with to do the same. "Really you have Marines?"

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...STOP THE PRESS...STOP THE PRESS...

next week Amazon.com to start selling the new [ELITE] Guide....


A Practical Guide on how to kill @koltes

 

this is the follow up edition from the hugely popular

KOLTES must die at all costs

(not all pirates wear BLACK]

 


don't Delay ORDER today...

 

 

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1 minute ago, Norfolk nChance said:

...STOP THE PRESS...STOP THE PRESS...

next week Amazon.com to start selling the new [ELITE] Guide....


A Practical Guide on how to kill @koltes

 

this is the follow up edition from the hugely popular

KOLTES must die at all costs

(not all pirates wear BLACK]

 


don't Delay ORDER today...

 

 

You still want me to do the graphic design for this? :lol:

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AWESOME thread. This should be pined as a must read for every new player and some older ones like myself who have spent their in game life trading, building and exploring. Someday even they will want to stick their toes into the waters of the BATTLE. To all of you on this thread, fun read and great instruction. Thanks.

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I think if I(or anyone that can handle bigger ships) could fight myself in surp vs indef the indef would still smash surprise unless its a terrible tag. Most surprises in os are tuned beasts and the indefat are sailed by less skilled and no upgrades 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Great read, even better lesson although I rarely fit ships for armor anyways. I really appreciate your writing style, reminds me of some more interesting books I read

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