Brits & Spanish agreement 24-06-2017

[Quineloe]

What's this bug you keep throwing around? A port being flipped outside PB times being defaulted to the earliest next slot?

[Celtiberofrog]

A small summary to refresh minds and explain the current bitterness:

PLVS-VLTRA's made tremendous efforts of organization since the begining of the wipe with peeps spending hundreds of hours to create wealth & ships.

It's true that Spain started with the huge territory we know, even if many regions were given away to Danes, Dutch and Brits, our ownership was and still is great.

It's true that Brits did start with fewer territories, but they did not organize and utilize the "mutual friendly flips" soon enough. Till yesturday, Brits did not own a 3CM port, while Spain is stocking large amount of CM.

Then started a large Propaganda from Brits claiming that the game is unbalanced, Brits did not have a chance to catch up with the Spanish large fleets.

At this stage, things became very nasty, the hostility of Omoa was purposely spoiled by hords of Brits friendly explosion basic cutters into our 1rst rate ships... Spain put it to tribunal as "unacceptable gameplay", Dev's rejected our claims despite it was clearly durty gameplay.

PLVS-VLTRA got very upset about it, hence over-reaction of "Total war" declaration.

Then came this major bug...somehow a ridiculous bug that suddenly occured while Brits were grinding hostility on 2 strategical Regions. At that stage some PLVS-VLTRA players got totaly disgusted seeing that Dev's kept the 2 PB's in a clear disadvantage for Spain.

Now, Clarion call just mentioned above "...Because of the bug, the devs were approached and the timers were reset for the port battles...." !!! PLVS-VLTRA have never had the priviledge to approach Dev's, it seems that some Brits players have this chance.

Somehow, from an objective point of view, Brits could deserve a larger Conquest Marks revenue to fasten its economical progress, (could be the Dev's point of view), but the way all this happened is bitterly unfair for the Spanish players who made great efforts for weeks to control regions (as per the new rules & mechanics).

 EU server's Spanish faction is presently in a "burn out" state, many players have decided to throw the towel after Dev's saturday decision. 

 

Let's hope our players community will always try to put themself in shooes of others, to keep away from eccessive role playing that destroys any possible rational & fairness understanding. This is totaly necessary for the EU server health.

Let's also hope, that our "Gods" the Dev's (that made this NA world) will keep their optimisation without destroying groups of tester/players motivation.

Cheers 

     

Edited June 25, 2017 by Celtiberofrog

[Batman]

I still don't see your bittnerness. It was the same surprise to us that the Pbs got scheduled. Yet you had a all day to get your players out and start working against hostility. You didn't because you wanted to drop warsupplies the next day. That was your decision. It didn't work due to the bug. But the devs reset the battles to 2200 Hrs - I think to reward the british players who worked all day in those regions. You simply should have reacted earlier, but decided to wait.

[Clarion Call]

20 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

A small summary to refresh minds and explain the current bitterness:

PLVS-VLTRA's made tremendous efforts of organization since the begining of the wipe with peeps spending hundreds of hours to create wealth & ships.

It's true that Spain started with the huge territory we know, even if many regions were given away to Danes, Dutch and Brits, our ownership was and still is great.

It's true that Brits did start with fewer territories, but they did not organize and utilize the "mutual friendly flips" soon enough. Till yesturday, Brits did not own a 3CM port, while Spain is stocking large amount of CM.

Then started a large Propaganda from Brits claiming that the game is unbalanced, Brits did not have a chance to catch up with the Spanish large fleets.

At this stage, things became very nasty, the hostility of Omoa was purposely spoiled by hords of Brits friendly explosion basic cutters into our 1rst rate ships... Spain put it to tribunal as "unacceptable gameplay", Dev's rejected our claims despite it was clearly durty gameplay.

PLVS-VLTRA got very upset about it, hence over-reaction of "Total war" declaration.

Then came this major bug...somehow a ridiculous bug that suddenly occured while Brits were grinding hostility on 2 strategical Regions. At that stage some PLVS-VLTRA players got totaly disgusted seeing that Dev's kept the 2 PB's in a clear disadvantage for Spain.

Now, Clarion call just mentioned above "...Because of the bug, the devs were approached and the timers were reset for the port battles...." !!! PLVS-VLTRA have never had the priviledge to approach Dev's, it seems that some Brits players have this chance.

Somehow, from an objective point of view, Brits could deserve a larger Conquest Marks revenue to fasten its economical progress, (could be the Dev's point of view), but the way all this happened is bitterly unfair for the Spanish players who made great efforts for weeks to control regions (as per the new rules & mechanics).

 EU server's Spanish faction is presently in a "burn out" state, many players have decided to throw the towel after Dev's saturday decision. 

 

Let's hope our players community will always try to put themself in shooes of others, to keep away from eccessive role playing that destroys any possible rational & fairness understanding. This is totaly necessary for the EU server health.

Let's also hope, that our "Gods" the Dev's (that made this NA world) will keep their optimisation without destroying groups of tester/players motivation.

Cheers 

     

Celtiberofrog,

To clarify my statement, since you have taken it partially out of context, it was SPAIN that complained to the devs if you look in the other threads here in the forums.  It was SPAINISH players that requested the port battle timers be reset by the devs.... and you posted in another thread that the developers said "this is a bug and will be addressed." Further, you intimated in another thread that there might be a "technical" solution to the issue.

So, using logic, I deduced that the devs had been approached by SPAIN and decided to honor their requests to reset the port battle timers.

The only thing I was saying is that there was no "illegality" to the capture of the port battle, that's all.

 

[Richard Whitby]

23 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

EU server's Spanish faction is presently in a "burn out" state, many players have decided to throw the towel after Dev's saturday decision. 

Let's hope our players community will always try to put themself in shooes of others, to keep away from eccessive role playing that destroys any possible rational & fairness understanding. This is totaly necessary for the EU server health.

So you seem to think brit players have a good life with the current situation of our nation?

A lot of ppl quit here too, because of the 24/7 ganging and lack of ability to take part in fair pvp fights.

You want us to be fair and get into your shoes but your not able to do the same with us but declare a total war on us because we basically were victories within gameplay mechanics in omoa for the first time?

You lost that ships because you thought we were easy bait and didn't protect them right.

We have literally nothing since wipe and you complain and quit because you lost some ships and ports although you have your mastermind organisation hording hundreds of CM?

 

As for the bug:

I can totally understand your feelings about that and I would feel the same about it if it happened to my nation.

But we didn't expect that bug nor we worked for it. We were surprised just like you. 

You called for Devs, They have made a decision. Now you are complaining again. If you want a game that always runs with your rules go and develop your own.

 

 

[Celtiberofrog]

14 minutes ago, Clarion Call said:

Celtiberofrog,

To clarify my statement, since you have taken it partially out of context, it was SPAIN that complained to the devs if you look in the other threads here in the forums.  It was SPAINISH players that requested the port battle timers be reset by the devs.... and you posted in another thread that the developers said "this is a bug and will be addressed." Further, you intimated in another thread that there might be a "technical" solution to the issue.

So, using logic, I deduced that the devs had been approached by SPAIN and decided to honor their requests to reset the port battle timers.

The only thing I was saying is that there was no "illegality" to the capture of the port battle, that's all.

 

Ok I got it now, but posting here or in other topics, is not really the term to "approach" the Dev's.

My apology for misunderstanding your wording.

Cheers    

[Magallanes]

20 minutes ago, Batman said:

 It was the same surprise to us that the Pbs got scheduled.

So, Why did you do it ? Get adventage of that. Just explain to community.

 

[Clarion Call]

Just now, Celtiberofrog said:

Ok I got it now, but posting here or in other topics, is not really the term to "approach" the Dev's.

My apology for misunderstanding your wording.

Cheers    

No worries,

Glad the misunderstanding was cleared up!

<0

[Celtiberofrog]

28 minutes ago, Batman said:

I still don't see your bittnerness. It was the same surprise to us that the Pbs got scheduled. Yet you had a all day to get your players out and start working against hostility. You didn't because you wanted to drop warsupplies the next day. That was your decision. It didn't work due to the bug. But the devs reset the battles to 2200 Hrs - I think to reward the british players who worked all day in those regions. You simply should have reacted earlier, but decided to wait.

The mentioned bitterness is related to an addition of circumstances with a final effect, not only about this last Bug (with effects that have been sorted out without Dev's help). 

[Snaker]

3 minutes ago, Magallanes said:

So, Why did you do it ? Get adventage of that. Just explain to community.

 

If the Devs didn't want anything to happen they would've set them down to 50% hostility etc, You are lucky there was an agreement made because fleets were fielded for both ports.

VLTRA declared 'Total war' and claimed no quarters will be given and there would be no diplomatic relations yet there was a diplomatic agreement made due to the pleading of the spanish, we did not have to even communicate with you guys over the matter yet we did. Just accept what you've got and deal with it or better still come and retake Cartagena

[Celtiberofrog]

8 minutes ago, Richard Whitby said:

So you seem to think brit players have a good life with the current situation of our nation?

A lot of ppl quit here too, because of the 24/7 ganging and lack of ability to take part in fair pvp fights.

You want us to be fair and get into your shoes but your not able to do the same with us but declare a total war on us because we basically were victories within gameplay mechanics in omoa for the first time?

You lost that ships because you thought we were easy bait and didn't protect them right.

We have literally nothing since wipe and you complain and quit because you lost some ships and ports although you have your mastermind organisation hording hundreds of CM?

 

As for the bug:

I can totally understand your feelings about that and I would feel the same about it if it happened to my nation.

But we didn't expect that bug nor we worked for it. We were surprised just like you. 

You called for Devs, They have made a decision. Now you are complaining again. If you want a game that always runs with your rules go and develop your own.

 

 

I think you got me wrong.

Omoa ==> what was nasty gameply is "friendly explosion of costless basic cutters", or do you justify this ?

"We have literally nothing since wipe" ==> I mentioned that fact, slightly minimized though.

"You called for Dev's" ==> Not complaining, I know they're "NA's Gods", but we precisely applyed God's rules since wipe, with huge efforts, never imposed our supposingly rules.

[Grundgemunkey]

1 hour ago, Celtiberofrog said:

It's true that Brits did start with fewer territories, but they did not organize and utilize the "mutual friendly flips" soon enough. Till yesturday, Brits did not own a 3CM port, while Spain is stocking large amount of CM.

it is hard to organise a mutually friendly flip ..when no one else is willing ...thankfully the Danes became willing

At this stage, things became very nasty, the hostility of Omoa was purposely spoiled by hords of Brits friendly explosion basic cutters into our 1rst rate ships... Spain put it to tribunal as "unacceptable gameplay", Dev's rejected our claims despite it was clearly durty gameplay.

PLVS-VLTRA got very upset about it, hence over-reaction of "Total war" declaration.

I find it strange that you should think we should sit back and let you raise hostility in Omoa ...without trying to spoil your plans... our use of basic cutters is a tactic that we learned from the spanish nation at Isla de Pinos...

Then came this major bug...somehow a ridiculous bug that suddenly occured while Brits were grinding hostility on 2 strategical Regions. At that stage some PLVS-VLTRA players got totaly disgusted seeing that Dev's kept the 2 PB's in a clear disadvantage for Spain.

As I explained in  discussion we were as suprised as anyone else with this bug ...we started grinding these battles on Thursday ..throughout the grind we detected no anti hostility from the Spanish .. in fact you seemed to be more interested in grinding hostility in Remidios  we assumed this is because you were confident that you could defend both ports .

in fact if we had been an hour or so quicker the ports would have been flipped for 2200 on Saturday anyway and the bug issue would have been irrelevant you would have had no chance to counter grind throught Saturday

Now, Clarion call just mentioned above "...Because of the bug, the devs were approached and the timers were reset for the port battles...." !!! PLVS-VLTRA have never had the priviledge to approach Dev's, it seems that some Brits players have this chance.

As far as i know the British Nation has no direct access to the Devs other than the posts made on this forum

Somehow, from an objective point of view, Brits could deserve a larger Conquest Marks revenue to fasten its economical progress, (could be the Dev's point of view), but the way all this happened is bitterly unfair for the Spanish players who made great efforts for weeks to control regions (as per the new rules & mechanics).

Again you make it sound as if we knew of this bug and exploited it ..which is untrue .. secondly we had no idea of what soloution the Devs were going to implement st maintenance on Saturday ... We saw how this may have been unfair and hence our diplomatic talks to resolve a situation ..which we bothn agreed to and was honourably implemented by both sides

 EU server's Spanish faction is presently in a "burn out" state, many players have decided to throw the towel after Dev's saturday decision.

To be honest if flipping empty ports with Sorry ..and making one 2-3 hour attempt to raise hostility in Omoa is causing burn out maybe the Spanish Nation should refrain from declaring total war ..and should have stayed at the diplomatic table longer 

Let's hope our players community will always try to put themself in shooes of others, to keep away from eccessive role playing that destroys any possible rational & fairness understanding. This is totaly necessary for the EU server health.

agreed .. lets hope the Spansh nation understands this too ..accusing British of exploiting  on forums when no exploit occured does not help feelings of mutual understaning

Let's also hope, that our "Gods" the Dev's (that made this NA world) will keep their optimisation without destroying groups of tester/players motivation.

Cheers 

     

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Grundgemunkey

[Celtiberofrog]

1 minute ago, Grundgemunkey said:

I find it strange that you should think we should sit back and let you raise hostility in Omoa ...without trying to spoil your plans... our use of basic cutters is a tactic that we learned from the spanish nation at Isla de Pinos...

Grundge, did we ever use the "friendly explosion with costless basic cutters" tactic ? nope. As a matter of fact, Dev's corrected that bug since explosions were far too devastating upon larger ships. So this was a desparate action, but are players rightfull to use a bug to get away from a tactical inferiority ? i say no and it was nasty gameplay. you could confess it.

[Clarion Call]

Just now, Celtiberofrog said:

Grundge, did we ever use the "friendly explosion with costless basic cutters" tactic ? nope. As a matter of fact, Dev's corrected that bug since explosions were far too devastating upon larger ships. So this was a desparate action, but are players rightfull to use a bug to get away from a tactical inferiority ? i say no and it was nasty gameplay. you could confess it.

Celtiberofrog,

The Spanish used basic cutters to counter hostile fleets previously, which has been posted in screenshots by those who were present when it happened. So, at the time of the hostilities at Omoa, the British players used a tactic they remembered the Spanish had previously used.  As you said yourself, this has been addressed and fixed by the devs, so no need to try and beat this dead horse anymore.  Its dead....

BLUF: if you considered the British using basic cutters as nasty gameplay, then you (Spanish Nation) are guilty of it as well.

 

Let us delcare that henceforward, we will fight in honorable ways as officers and gentlemen (and Gentlewomen) of our respective nations and strive to make this a fun world to fight in.  Are you with me?

[_Alucard_]

9 hours ago, Admiral Horatio Hornblower said:

Blame your stupid leaders of VLTRA that declares a total war against a nation which have more numbers than yours.

Deal with it.

And remember, no diplo talkings are promoted in this total war of yours. It is going to be fun to reduce your foolish spantards to Habana.

 

You are reported.

Go and call stupid anyone you know, not us.

 

I haven't seen a coment about my words on how a small faction like ours can deal with other factions huge numbers.

So, I put it here again: why is the game favouring with these mechanics always the factions with huge numbers?

If you have 400 players and we have 50, how the hell can we get to the port and enter the port battle? We can't. Never. That's a fact.

Devs know it and still do nothing about it.

So this game right now is a mess even though it still has an amazing combat system. 

Figure out new conquest mechanics now.

[Celtiberofrog]

10 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

EU server's Spanish faction is presently in a "burn out" state, many players have decided to throw the towel after Dev's saturday decision.

To be honest if flipping empty ports with Sorry ..and making one 2-3 hour attempt to raise hostility in Omoa is causing burn out maybe the Spanish Nation should refrain from declaring total war ..and should have stayed at the diplomatic table longer 

Friendly port fliping is legal, you know it but did it very late.

Omoa flipping was totaly legal & within the rules, but our first rate fleet was unacceptable for you...did we misplay somewhere ?

Total war declaration was an over-reaction to what happened to Omoa, eccessive role playing I guess...

[Richard Whitby]

2 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Grundge, did we ever use the "friendly explosion with costless basic cutters" tactic ? nope. As a matter of fact, Dev's corrected that bug since explosions were far too devastating upon larger ships. So this was a desparate action, but are players rightfull to use a bug to get away from a tactical inferiority ? i say no and it was nasty gameplay. you could confess it.

I could confess that it wasn't fair..  

It wasn't the british gentlemen solution but it was within game mechanics and you would have to confess that grinding hostility with first rates with maximum 4 rates as enemy is nasty gameplay exactly to the same amount.

You came with something we couldn't defeat by normal means, so we came up with something that is outside the box of thinking.

If we had used privateers instead you would have complained too..  If there was a button to set your own ship on fire without some one to shoot at you i would have pressed it. 

[Chakal16]

Just now, Richard Whitby said:

I could confess that it wasn't fair..  

It wasn't the british gentlemen solution but it was within game mechanics and you would have to confess that grinding hostility with first rates with maximum 4 rates as enemy is nasty gameplay exactly to the same amount.

You came with something we couldn't defeat by normal means, so we came up with something that is outside the box of thinking.

If we had used privateers instead you would have complained too..  If there was a button to set your own ship on fire without some one to shoot at you i would have pressed it. 

So use the only thing we have, 1st rates made with a lot of work and hours because we don't have the numbers is nasty gameplay equally to the use of free fireships and exploting broken tagging systems? Nothing more to say.... is all totally clear.

[Celtiberofrog]

3 minutes ago, Clarion Call said:

Celtiberofrog,

The Spanish used basic cutters to counter hostile fleets previously, which has been posted in screenshots by those who were present when it happened. So, at the time of the hostilities at Omoa, the British players used a tactic they remembered the Spanish had previously used.  As you said yourself, this has been addressed and fixed by the devs, so no need to try and beat this dead horse anymore.  Its dead....

BLUF: if you considered the British using basic cutters as nasty gameplay, then you (Spanish Nation) are guilty of it as well.

 

Let us delcare that henceforward, we will fight in honorable ways as officers and gentlemen (and Gentlewomen) of our respective nations and strive to make this a fun world to fight in.  Are you with me?

Please, I may not be precise enough, sorry for that.

What is blameworthy is to purposely friendly fire at your costless basic cutters among much larger ships, (with overpowered explosions) not the fact of using basic cutter itself.

[Clarion Call]

Just now, Celtiberofrog said:

Please, I may not be precise enough, sorry for that.

What is blameworthy is to purposely friendly fire at your costless basic cutters among much larger ships, (with overpowered explosions) not the fact of using basic cutter itself.

And I'm saying, let bygones be bygones, and let us strive to have honorable combat in the future.  Are you with me on this?

[Grundgemunkey]

1 minute ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Grundge, did we ever use the "friendly explosion with costless basic cutters" tactic ? nope. As a matter of fact, Dev's corrected that bug since explosions were far too devastating upon larger ships. So this was a desparate action, but are players rightfull to use a bug to get away from a tactical inferiority ? i say no and it was nasty gameplay. you could confess it.

we used a tactic that was in game at the time ..i could give you the same stupid answer everyone else uses when the British claim a bug has been used against them ."we are testers"  but i wont stoop to that level

I would ask why the Spanish Nation decided to use expensive first rates to raise hostility ..is it because you knew we couldnt match your fleet strength ...

if you had tried to raise hostility in faster ships the use of Basic Cutters would have been redundant ....but that would have given us a chance ...

you used your economic strength to try and take Omoa without risk .to give us no chance ...good tactics

but you cannot complain when we use the legal tools within the game to undermine your plans ..that is not nasty gameplay ..if the devs see this as a loophole they should  close it

If you are concerned about losing expensive first rates ,,to cheap fireships ...dont bring them ..bring something faster

 

[Grundgemunkey]

11 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Friendly port fliping is legal, you know it but did it very late.

Omoa flipping was totaly legal & within the rules, but our first rate fleet was unacceptable for you...did we misplay somewhere ?

Total war declaration was an over-reaction to what happened to Omoa, eccessive role playing I guess...

i never said it wasnt legal ...just that if flriendly flipping is burning you out maybe you should reconsider declaring total war

you didnt misplay ...but neither did we ..you used what was available to you legally within the game ..we used what was legally available to us ..what is legal or not is the devs concern to manage to satisfy all players

maybe your declaration  was an over reaction ... but we all choose our nations to play for .....make decisions in within those nations .... who is ally who is enemy ...sometimes for good sometimes for bad ..

Every nation has players on the forums who like to troll and fan flames ..im not adverse to it myself ...

each nation has its pros and cons ...Spains may be asset rich low player base ..ours may be high player base low asset ...

which position do you want ... where there is enough to for everyone ..and you can manage your nations player base

or where your almost having to fight your own nation over assets and have no chance of managing anything

pros and cons for both ...

But nothing brings a group together more than been attacked

[Celtiberofrog]

5 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

we used a tactic that was in game at the time ..i could give you the same stupid answer everyone else uses when the British claim a bug has been used against them ."we are testers"  but i wont stoop to that level

I would ask why the Spanish Nation decided to use expensive first rates to raise hostility ..is it because you knew we couldnt match your fleet strength ...

if you had tried to raise hostility in faster ships the use of Basic Cutters would have been redundant ....but that would have given us a chance ...

you used your economic strength to try and take Omoa without risk .to give us no chance ...good tactics

but you cannot complain when we use the legal tools within the game to undermine your plans ..that is not nasty gameplay ..if the devs see this as a loophole they should  close it

If you are concerned about losing expensive first rates ,,to cheap fireships ...dont bring them ..bring something faster

 

Grundge,

Something is game mechanic and something else is game strategy.

- As soon as a group of players understand the new mechanic rules they are supposed to work them, that is what we did. We organized and built ships. Is there any unfairness here ??? nope.

- Is it the fault of those organized Spanish players that another Faction (outnumbering Spanish) cannot progress the way they would like ??? nope.

- If we built very costy first rate ships is to use them, why should we build them otherwise ? why should we look for a risky flipping ? 

- Because a Faction cannot show heavy ships, we should refrain and bring same level of war ships...Then, because we cannot show enough players for screening, we would appreciate the enemy to bring even number of players... 

- Friendly fire to set explosion of ships is not legal tool is a "nasty gameplay". I will change my position if you give us a confirmation that friendly fire to set explosion is allowed by Dev's.

   

 

[Grundgemunkey]

8 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

Grundge,

Something is game mechanic and something else is game strategy.

- As soon as a group of players understand the new mechanic rules they are supposed to work them, that is what we did. We organized and built ships. Is there any unfairness here ??? nope.

- Is it the fault of those organized Spanish players that another Faction (outnumbering Spanish) cannot progress the way they would like ??? nope.

- If we built very costy first rate ships is to use them, why should we build them otherwise ? why should we look for a risky flipping ? 

- Because a Faction cannot show heavy ships, we should refrain and bring same level of war ships...Then, because we cannot show enough players for screening, we would appreciate the enemy to bring even number of players... 

- Friendly fire to set explosion of ships is not legal tool is a "nasty gameplay". I will change my position if you give us a confirmation that friendly fire to set explosion is allowed by Dev's.

   

 

I am not aware that the rules on lighting a fire ship  have changed .... and that friendly fire to light a fireship is allowable as long as the fireship captain agrees with the action

maybe @admin  can clarify and confirm

[Clarion Call]

Just now, Grundgemunkey said:

I am not aware that the rules on lighting a fire ship  have changed .... and that friendly fire to light a fireship is allowable as long as the fireship captain agrees with the action

maybe @admin  can clarify and confirm

Admins say in this thread that ships can shoot at each other to light them up as fireships so long as both sides consent to it.  They further go on to say that the brits could have used bigger ships and it wouldn't have been an issue.. Which is why they fixed the basic cutters to not go boom....