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In response to our most honourable enemy the spanish nations tribunal complaint 'British using basic cutter exploit'


JCDC

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2 minutes ago, JCDC said:

For some reason, best known to them, the admin ruled on another thread that Cutters deliberately shooting each other to set each other on fire is allowed. made no sense to us but I 'think' it was used on the brits by someone else, and we now use that idea with the admins bizzare consent.

 

Personally I think any form of Blue on blue, for fireship or otherwise, should not be allowed. its clearly not in the spirit of the game and is terrible. but when you are in a situation as bad as the british are in, you have to use all methods of defence that are allowed. and, it is allowed, so we use it.

 

We have Sorry, the Spanish and soon the danes coming for us. we have no big ships and very few CMs. we simply have 2 choices, fight dirty (within the rules) or don't bother fighting at all. anyone who complains about the tactics we use needs to realise its them who are forcing us into that position. we as a nation are attacking no one, so it is those that attack us who are reaping what they sow.

I understand your point, but the problem is that this way you shall expect that also the big nations could use your arguments in order to justify their possible future exploit against you. And I do not know if it would be a good thing for your faction. 

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19 minutes ago, victor said:

I understand your point, but the problem is that this way you shall expect that also the big nations could use your arguments in order to justify their possible future exploit against you. And I do not know if it would be a good thing for your faction. 

I don't 'like' it, but when you are in a corner and being attacked on multiple fronts, you do what you have to to survive at the time, and worry about the consequences later.

there is no point in this game being strictly 'honorable' if you are dead!

In any case, the other big nations also use many exploits against us in the past, an I am sure will do again. so, every nation uses them against everyone. its just a sad thing about the internet.

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2 hours ago, Batman said:

hard work aka port activating with pirate help. But then freaking out when danes and brits do the same. Heresy!

Wrong.

We get CM from four battles, totally clean battles.

1-Santiago (defeating british, the only full battle)

2-Cartagena (defeating dutch fleet that flees without fight)

3-Santa Fe (we heat that port and pirates do not defend, simply)

4-Louisiana (same, we heating the port and empty battle, however the british try to blockade outside)

 

NO DEALS

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1 hour ago, JCDC said:

For some reason, best known to them, the admin ruled on another thread that Cutters deliberately shooting each other to set each other on fire is allowed. made no sense to us but I 'think' it was used on the brits by someone else, and we now use that idea with the admins bizzare consent.

 

Personally I think any form of Blue on blue, for fireship or otherwise, should not be allowed. its clearly not in the spirit of the game and is terrible. but when you are in a situation as bad as the british are in, you have to use all methods of defence that are allowed. and, it is allowed, so we use it.

 

We have Sorry, the Spanish and soon the danes coming for us. we have no big ships and very few CMs. we simply have 2 choices, fight dirty (within the rules) or don't bother fighting at all. anyone who complains about the tactics we use needs to realise its them who are forcing us into that position. we as a nation are attacking no one, so it is those that attack us who are reaping what they sow.

So, as I can understand, you wanna mean:

Because British are loosing in the game, we have to play with exploits. We apologise but we cant find another way to win in the game.

So, in 2 weeks, if Spain is loosing the game and using your cheats&exploits, could I expect you are not gonna cry ?

Is correct ? Cause if this is you idea of fair play ... many of us can spent time&money in other game with better mechanics and no exploits.

 

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At the end of the day all this bullshit has started from a fail system that the devs have implemented yet again, they have no idea on how to properly implement structures and systems that provide a proper balance to the game for all nations, its all broken by the way the game is constantly being played, there is not enough put in place from the start to stop all the work around loopholes to get an advantage, 3 years and there has always been someone exploiting some system to gain a massive advantage, this game needs to go back to basics and then look at what other games have done well and work on trying to get those kind of ideas into this game to stop all this toxic and bullshit behavior that we constantly keep on seeing!!! 

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2 hours ago, victor said:

I understand your point, but the problem is that this way you shall expect that also the big nations could use your arguments in order to justify their possible future exploit against you. And I do not know if it would be a good thing for your faction. 

exploding ships are not exploits. So stop calling them that.

Captains should find a counter. There are multiple counters to avoid exploding ships. The free nature of the basic cutter ship is going to be fixed, but i have a different question

I wonder what will happen when players will lose a fleet of Santisimas to a fleet of exploding cheap frigates? Frigate explosions are going to be a lot more powerful. And it will cost approximately 2.5 mil to destroy a fleet worth 25 mil by fire.

Will we see tribunals i wonder?  

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2 hours ago, victor said:

So - basically - yo are telling us that - according to the Devs - you cannot use a BC swarm (without green on green fire) to harass a frigate but you can use it (using green on green fire) to sink a 1st rate?

Don't spread somebody's else BS further please
IF and ONLY IF your friend is not against friendly fire you can shoot him. 


 

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29 minutes ago, admin said:

exploding ships are not exploits. So stop calling them that.

Captains should find a counter. There are multiple counters to avoid exploding ships. The free nature of the basic cutter ship is going to be fixed, but i have a different question

I wonder what will happen when players will lose a fleet of Santisimas to a fleet of exploding cheap frigates? Frigate explosions are going to be a lot more powerful. And it will cost approximately 2.5 mil to destroy a fleet worth 25 mil by fire.

Will we see tribunals i wonder?  

Ok how about this?, why you can't add something to counter stern camping exploit?  if you read history then you will know that they used sharp shooters and stern guns to take out helmsman and change the balance of battle, please read here:

I call it exploit because you allow people to camp sterns, but give victim nothing to defend themselves. You also do not have critical hits for Captain, Surgeon, and other important members of the crew who died during battle and resulted in a different final outcome. 

Edited by Lordicious
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3 minutes ago, Lordicious said:

Ok how about this?, why you can't add something to counter stern camping exploit?  if you read history then you will know that they used sharp shooters and stern guns to take out helmsman and change the balance of battle, please read here:

I call it exploit because you allow people to camp sterns, but give victim nothing to defend themselves. 

please avoid off topic

how is your question relates to Spanish vs British fireship brawling?

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30 minutes ago, admin said:

exploding ships are not exploits. So stop calling them that.

 

And ships exploding by means of green on green deliberate fire what are?

Really ... I do not understand!

Edited by victor
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HMS Africa, 25 danish gunboats. Looks fairly similar in a different scale. End result is fairly similar. This is fairly RL example.

On another note regarding gameplay, US Wappen assaulted by 7 or 8 cutters, pre wipe. didn't take long for the battle to end. Still a couple lost officer lives with the cutter fleet in full retreat.

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2 minutes ago, victor said:

and ships exploding by means of green on green fire what are?

mutually acceptable friendly fire is allowed. 
If you are ok with your friends destroying your ship - it is allowed, it was like that all the time. 

If you are NOT ok (you must be a target). You can report it to tribunal. 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

mutually acceptable friendly fire is allowed. 
If you are ok with your friends destroying your ship - it is allowed, it was like that all the time. 

If you are NOT ok (you must be a target). You can report it to tribunal. 

So, you will allow alts to blend in, and once a group of 1st rates sail together catch fire and sail in causing devastating results and financial collapse to 'green team' ? then say sorry I am new. I am talking about someone who catches fire and causes friendly damage. 

Is this allowed?

Edited by Lordicious
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1 minute ago, admin said:

mutually acceptable friendly fire is allowed. 
If you are ok with your friends destroying your ship - it is allowed, it was like that all the time. 

ok, now its clear.

Yet allowing using BC as "kamikaze bombs" while you cannot use them as "normal" attack ships seems to me rather incoherent, But that's my opinion.

 

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32 minutes ago, admin said:

exploding ships are not exploits. So stop calling them that.

Captains should find a counter. There are multiple counters to avoid exploding ships. The free nature of the basic cutter ship is going to be fixed, but i have a different question

I wonder what will happen when players will lose a fleet of Santisimas to a fleet of exploding cheap frigates? Frigate explosions are going to be a lot more powerful. And it will cost approximately 2.5 mil to destroy a fleet worth 25 mil by fire.

Will we see tribunals i wonder?  

They can spend 2.5 mil to attempt to bring down a santi fleet, rather than spend zero money and zero hours gameplay to bring down a fleet that captains have invested a lot of time building up ! If you dont understand the problem with this then the game is doomed to failure.

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

mutually acceptable friendly fire is allowed. 
If you are ok with your friends destroying your ship - it is allowed, it was like that all the time. 

This is a LOVELY game, thanks admin for your impartial-partial-nosense aportation to forums.

arcoiris-04.jpg

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1 hour ago, fremen said:

Wrong.

We get CM from four battles, totally clean battles.

1-Santiago (defeating british, the only full battle)

2-Cartagena (defeating dutch fleet that flees without fight)

3-Santa Fe (we heat that port and pirates do not defend, simply)

4-Louisiana (same, we heating the port and empty battle, however the british try to blockade outside)

 

NO DEALS

I see ya'll have folks blaming deals on the other server like we do.  We gave up Santa Fe with no fight to the brits and they think cause we took Cap Frans we made a deal with the french.  No we told them we where taking it and if they show up plan to be sunk.  They didn't show up.  That is not an agreement that is just declaring our intentions.

30 minutes ago, admin said:

exploding ships are not exploits. So stop calling them that.

Captains should find a counter. There are multiple counters to avoid exploding ships. The free nature of the basic cutter ship is going to be fixed, but i have a different question

I wonder what will happen when players will lose a fleet of Santisimas to a fleet of exploding cheap frigates? Frigate explosions are going to be a lot more powerful. And it will cost approximately 2.5 mil to destroy a fleet worth 25 mil by fire.

Will we see tribunals i wonder?  

My shallow water/light frigate Pirate has 4/5th rate Fireship fitting....along with grenades and well add in open Mags. I'm pretty sure it will be put to good use in a battle some time soon.   TO REAL GOOD BOOM USE.  Good use of any crappy captured ship we might come across.

2 minutes ago, victor said:

And ships exploding by means of green on green fire what are?

Really ... I do not understand!

As long as they are ok with the damage and don't report it.  Than it's not against the rules.  Last night Brits on GLOBAL failed a frigate fire-ship in an open world battle.  It did more damage to his own ships than to ours.  Yah I lost most my sails and 200 crew, but the frigate that I was in board lost 200 crew also.  A bigger hit to him than me as I was in an Aggy with 500 crew.  Sneaky move on there part, but it's still a tactic and we will be watching for such in the future.  Even more sneaky they where in our capital waters so it was like they did a suicidal mission.

Shortly after that we caught another Brit clan that been bugging our traders. 5 Trincs and a speed fit Aggy.  They tried to sink the Aggy since it wasn't going to escape...they couldn't and we ended up capturing it while the Trincs escape.  Perfect acceptable tactics to try to keep a ship out of the enemy hands.  

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6 minutes ago, Lordicious said:

So, you will allow alts to blend in, and once a group of 1st rates sail together catch fire and sail in causing devastating results and financial collapse to 'green team' ? then say sorry I am new. I am talking about someone who catches fire and causes friendly damage. 

Is this allowed?

You need to more clearly state your example please. I"m not sure what you're saying.

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Change the fireship mod so that the ship which has it equipped becomes a real fireship and not an armed to the teeth and fully crewed potential bomb. It should serve only one purpose. Thus having a minimum of crew and no cannons (they are expensive, why waste them?) or only a fraction of the normal cannon count. 

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11 minutes ago, victor said:

ok, now its clear.

Yet allowing using BC as "kamikaze bombs" while you cannot use them as "normal" attack ships seems to me rather incoherent, But that's my opinion.

 

you can use them as normal ships if you are attacked or pulled into the pve battle
i have no idea where you see the difference

 

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

you can use them as normal ships if you are attacked or pulled into the pve battle
i have no idea where you see the difference

 

cutters can pull AI fleets to the pull players into that battle is what we are saying nothing wrong with a fireship but using a BC & AI to pull players that a cutter should not be able to tag for pvp 

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57 minutes ago, admin said:

you can use them as normal ships if you are attacked or pulled into the pve battle
i have no idea where you see the difference

 

I'll try to explain better.

1) A "kamikaze" Basic cutter is not just any other kamikaze ship since it is a free kamikaze ship.

2) you told us (or at least this was what I understood) - when you changed BC rules of engagement - that BC, being free ships, should not be used (in swarms) to tag and kill costly ships, because there is no risk on the side of the BC swarm, since - if they die - they do not suffer any loss while the loss of the costly ship would be an actual loss. And this "no risk" kind of engagement was unfair.

so I do not see why free BC could be used (alone or in swarms) to kill costly ships when they are pulled into battles on purpose: also in BC kamikaze tactics there is no risk on the side of the BC: they die and they do no suffer any loss while the costly ships that blows up with them is destroyed and suffers an acutal loss. Also here I see some kind of "no risk" engagement on the side of the BC.

Edited by victor
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2 hours ago, Bountyhunter said:

They can spend 2.5 mil to attempt to bring down a santi fleet, rather than spend zero money and zero hours gameplay to bring down a fleet that captains have invested a lot of time building up ! If you dont understand the problem with this then the game is doomed to failure.

RHfDZXL.jpg

It is just your opinion. Not an opinion of 15-20 successful light ship captains who will remember this exciting moment forever (and probably a line ship owner will remember it too for a couple of years). Someone will be unhappy in those experiences but those are the historical experiences we are selling.. Sorry if it does not suit your personal plans. BC issue will be solved but ships will burn and will die from cheap ships if they are not careful

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