Important! Chat. Politeness and such

[Hyperion74]

Balck, servers down, bad, bad for you. My sympathies.

 

Name is on ignore.

[Edward Vernon]

This is disturbing to hear your comments re Mr Doran and I am not saying they are not accurate, BUT, I have had the pleasure (and I DO mean pleasure) of being in battle both with and against him on a number of occasions in the past days. We even had a scenario where he jumped into a PvP at the last second, when I and a Guild member were looking to do some manual tacking training. We explained to him that was our intent and he readily agreed to not fire on us if we didn't fire on him, without asking.

 

So... I guess my point is let us not tarnish an individual with 1 bad experience, we all have our off days etc. So perhaps we should confine ourselves on this public forum at least to only "outing" serial offenders. That is not to say that the AUSL should not keep a collective "watch list" but only when we get repetitive bad behavour should we out people here. I am sure most of us are guilty at some point in time of being precipitous in our responses and then getting carried away.

 

I believe what i am saying here is more in the spirit of the fairness we seek, than this instant public damnation.

[RAMJB]

This is disturbing to hear your comments re Mr Doran and I am not saying they are not accurate, BUT, I have had the pleasure (and I DO mean pleasure) of being in battle both with and against him on a number of occasions in the past days. We even had a scenario where he jumped into a PvP at the last second, when I and a Guild member were looking to do some manual tacking training. We explained to him that was our intent and he readily agreed to not fire on us if we didn't fire on him, without asking.

 

 

Sadly seems he finds anyone who doesn't want to dance a close range tango with two trincomalees in a big-arsed stiff brick as the constitution "Gay". And sadly, it seems he also wants to voice such an opinion very loudly, repeatedly and both in-game and in the lobby chat. And when reprimanded for such attitude, seems he also likes to even go harder on it, insist on it, and take it to troll-like levels.

 

Let's leave it at that, for that was precisely the scenario.

 

If you know him so well and he's so nice as you say he is, then tell him the next time you see him that the should zip it instead of being a loudmouth about other player's decisions and tactics ,and that he should refrain from insulting others because he finds their tactical decisions different than his own preferences. Specially when such decisions and tactics carry him to a win. Because that stunt was just shameful and is exactly and precisely the thing we want to keep out of this game.

[Balck]

Well, he went for close range after a victory in his surprise earlier, that didn't go as planned.  Them stern chasers... 

[Lord Hood]

It's good that people are addressing the politeness issue and calling out those that are not abiding by the conduct required; however I am inclined to agree with Vernon in that it shouldn't be based on one scenario. Now if it has happened more than once then that is fine or should it happen on so grand an occasion as RAMJB has put it both within the fight and in the lobby (in front of a greater audience) than that is most understandably a red flag to be raised. Should the chap be using terminology such as 'gay' with regards to his teams tactics then I would say its childish and tactically ignorant behaviour on that occasion. I believe that if we act in haste then there is the possibility of this thread becoming a breeding ground for "forum qq" which I do hope does not happen. I would state that currently I have had no issue with other testers and that I'm glad that everyone else has come to think that we have a very good community here as technically we are all proponents of making that a good feature of this community. 

[Roadkill]

Have to be honest and say that the majority of the chat and banter has been great but my pet hate is people getting over serious in pve. I understand the team ethic in Pvp and the importance of working together but when it's a fairly balanced pve match and people want to play their own game I respect that as it is probably why they chose pve. We've all done the slog of putting damage on to move up a level. What I struggle to understand is the need to criticise other players on how they sail (providing it doesn't include shooting at you!). Let people learn at their own rate and make mistakes and keep the serious strategy banter for Pvp. There are a lot of people who just want to log in and learn in peace, respect that if it is the case. If they ask for help take the time to remember what it was like to learn yourself.

[chappy]

I am uncomfortable with the calling out concept and naming names. While in the majority of cases it would likely be an appropriate and truthful description of events it nonetheless can lead to a mob mentality and also a guilty until proven innocent onus.

Lets please not publicly name individuals, create threads for the purpose and generally devolve into a name calling cycle of negativity.

 

Wait for the ability to report individuals through the game, and if it is really serious then contact the admin via the pm function discretely, as i have done. They take your concerns seriously and I have no doubt they handled my complaint appropriately, do i know what they did in response? no I do not and nor do I need to as I trust them to act in the interest of their game.

 

Anonymous and discrete reporting of players is effective. If they behave commonly in a poor manner regularly the evidence against them will mount and it will not be tainted by mob mentality or the court of public opinion  which actually makes the admins and mods job of sanctioning such individuals far easier. Please consider this approach rather than public shaming methods.

[Saintduiex]

I like the open discussion on this topic. I appreciate the open sharing of views and information. RAMJB had an altercation, it's noted. Edward Vernon, whom I also highly regard, has had different experiences with the same player.

My point here is that they both can be valid. As several others have suggested, as did I, repeat issues by the same player are the issue. Anyone can have a bad day. Note the issue, suck it up and move on and let's leave the drama for our momma. While it's a game I have zero interest in playing at this effort, let's not make it part of the game. At the same time, I will do whatever I can to help eliminate the serial problems that can eat away a community.

Court of public opinion is a very sharp tool that cuts two ways. You can have a different opinions about that same topic, that's fine.

This is an evolving communitity so how we chose to deal with issues is still a work in progress and many of us have pledged to do what we can to keep it from turning into the rat holes that some of the other forums that have been noted had done.

So, with that said, my opinion and continued suggested course of action is that relevant information and observations should be noted, as RAMJB and Edward Vernon have done. Those of us with opinions about the player in question without any relevent observations and not directly involved should try to hold off on any additional commentary of opinion and not rush to final judgement.

So, no harm, no foul, keep moving

[Edward Vernon]

Sadly seems he finds anyone who doesn't want to dance a close range tango with two trincomalees in a big-arsed stiff brick as the constitution "Gay". And sadly, it seems he also wants to voice such an opinion very loudly, repeatedly and both in-game and in the lobby chat. And when reprimanded for such attitude, seems he also likes to even go harder on it, insist on it, and take it to troll-like levels.

 

Let's leave it at that, for that was precisely the scenario.

 

If you know him so well and he's so nice as you say he is, then tell him the next time you see him that the should zip it instead of being a loudmouth about other player's decisions and tactics ,and that he should refrain from insulting others because he finds their tactical decisions different than his own preferences. Specially when such decisions and tactics carry him to a win. Because that stunt was just shameful and is exactly and precisely the thing we want to keep out of this game.

Not disagreeing with you RAM at all, simply trying to bring some balanced thought and opinion. I do not know him well, I just had a completely different experience. Yours does sound unpleasant and I would condemn it also. I think my wider point is that before this forum becomes a kangaroo court we should look for a pattern of similar behaviour rather than condemn a man on a single instance.

[RAMJB]

Not disagreeing with you RAM at all, simply trying to bring some balanced thought and opinion. I do not know him well, I just had a completely different experience. Yours does sound unpleasant and I would condemn it also. I think my wider point is that before this forum becomes a kangaroo court we should look for a pattern of similar behaviour rather than condemn a man on a single instance.

 

 

No worries, Edward. I fully agree that several accounts about any reported individual should come each time a report comes up, so we get a general impression of the real attitude of the reported player. I know first hand that I've lost my temper in certain occassions with other games myself, but those ocurrences are rather rare, so the same can happen with other players. It's only fair to hear the opinions from different persons around to figure out if a guy is really an asshat or was just having a bad moment that shouldn't really be weighed against him.

 

My intention is not to form a court martial that executes anyone who happens to goes ballistic in-game, but to keep some kind of track on bad behavior to spot recurring incidents with the same players. One report should condemn noone. But several of them...should .

[nornica]

I always wonder, what devs can do if some player behaviour is bad, very bad.

About the man that RAMJB mentioned, i fought with him once, and hopefully never again. But You can't report nasty sailing behaviour like getting in back of Vic in supri and sailing like this for 40 minutes, even not shooting cause his front cannons got wrecked, and answering why is he doing that: "i want to waste as much time as possible". xP

But coming back to rude behaviour i have different opinion then most of You guys. The faster we start to point out such people, the bigger chance the rest of them will think twice before they call someone in same bad way.
If we just say "nay, its not ok to tell his name in public" the rest of funny people will think there is no punishment for such.
People are not scared of few days ban or some other things that devs can do, people are scared of public ostracism.

Althrough some people never learn.

My temporary solution fighting with such people? always have 4 beers in fridge and chill.
But the ignore button or "dont put me in battle room with that player" would be nice xD

[RAMJB]

About the man that RAMJB mentioned, i fought with him once, and hopefully never again. But You can't report nasty sailing behaviour like getting in back of Vic in supri and sailing like this for 40 minutes, even not shooting cause his front cannons got wrecked, and answering why is he doing that: "i want to waste as much time as possible". xP

 

That's griefing and would be rather bad and borderline unacceptable in a released game.

 

In an alpha test stage freezing a player in battle for 40 minutes is preventing that player for joining another game and keep playtesting the game. That kind of player is exactly the one I would loathe to see in mass numbers in this game, and mixing this report with my own experiences with him just makes me believe the guy is just a griefing troll.

 

At any rate seems the individual at hand is not a shining instance of gentleman behavior. I'm glad we all know about him now, we know what to expect. And the devs also have a good account of what his practices seem to be, so they might look at him carefully to decide wether they want to take action or not.

 

 

I wholeheartedly support the idea of an exclusion list, btw.

[PrezesOi]

I  like idea of such list. BUT-I'm not sure if official forum/website is proper place for such thing. In my opinion, G-L should not take part or sponsor list which stigmatize players. As game developers, they have  (or they will have in future) their rules of conduct, and a list of behaviors that they will punish at their discretion.

Such list could be a approved and carried out by the organization of which I read on the forum http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2147-announcing-the-association-of-unified-society-leaders-ausl/

Maybe on facebook?

[RAMJB]

 G-L should not take part or sponsor list which stigmatize players.

 

 

Correction here: the list doesn't stigmatize players.

 

Those who report bad behaviors don't stigmatize players.

 

Noone sponsorizing or taking part on the creation of such a list is stigmatizing players.

 

Players on that list stigmatize themselves by behaving like pricks.

 

 

It's fully on them to make it into that list, and by doing so they'll be hurting themselves. Noone but them is liable for any responsabilities. The whole concept is that the second a player is identified as worthy of making it into that list, there will be noone to blame about his inclusion there, and the later consequences, than HIMSELF. and that noone but him can remove himself from such an "Hall of infame of the unworthy" by apologizing and starting to conduct himself in a proper, polite and acceptable way.

Let's stop political correctness here for a second. If someone comes to a party at my home and starts acting like a douchebag I'm going to kick his arse out of my frontdoor faster than the speed of light. And I'll proceed to tell everyone I know that the individual is a dick and that they shouldn't invite him to their own social events. And I won't be the one stigmatizing him. He did so himself. It's fully on him. To somehow imply that the dev's can't take official action is alike to saying that I can't take measures to stop a douche acting as a dick in a party I'm hosting at my home. And that doesn't hold water.

 

And as a result I don't see why the devs or anyone should refrain from having such an official "list of dishonor" because of bad behavior listing the "merits" of each one listed there. Following with my avobe-mentioned instance, this game is their "home". the "party" is their testing (and later, release). If anyone misbehaves, the party host is more than entitled to take any action he deems adequate to deal with the misbehavior. From calling the offender's attention out in front of everyone, to kicking him out of the party and telling everyone else not to invite him ever again.

[PrezesOi]

All true - but servers are G-L property, so douchebag player comes to a party at G-L home.

[RAMJB]

All true - but servers are G-L property, so douchebag player comes to a party at G-L home.

 

Precisely. I don't see why anyone would have any complain in them creating their own "Dishonorable list of honor" with players who did merits to be there, for everyone to watch and learn from .

[PrezesOi]

I just hope that the creation of such a list will be not necessary, because GL will be sufficiently sensitive to signs of excessive rudeness and effective in enforcing discipline.

 

This:

22. If any person in the fleet shall quarrel or fight with any other person in the fleet, or use reproachful or provoking speeches or gestures, tending to make any quarrel or disturbance, he shall, upon being convicted thereof, suffer such punishment as the offence shall deserve, and a court martial shall impose

 

THE ARTICLES OF WAR 1757

The Articles of War on board a Royal Navy ship matched the gravity of holy writ. It served as the law practiced upon His Majesty's Ships.

The Articles were originally established in the 1650s, amended in 1749 (by an act of Parliament) and again in 1757.

[Balck]

Ram, you're in essence arguing for our very own system of tarring and feathering.

 

This wasn't always just even if it may have been sometimes justified.  Please consider the unseen consequences of handling bad apples this way.  I don't want them in the game if this is all they'll ever do.  Still, perfectly good and descent players may end up tarred and feathered because of one mistake or because someone has a gripe against them.  Pandora's box.  

 

There needs to be a system whereby the innocent are cleared and the guilty are dealt with.  Otherwise this will end up hurting the community more than helping it.

 

While I sympathize and agree with your sentiments, I'm obliged to disagree on the methods.  

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Massive +1 for invoking the Articles of War Sir!

[chappy]

Agree with Balck on this, i think we're on the same wavelength.

 

 

 

Correction here: the list doesn't stigmatize players.

Im sorry but i disagree wholeheartedly with this line of reasoning. The list does. and the ability of anyone to post whatever they want on it means that players can be stigmatized unfairly.

 

perhaps the person being complained about is actually a serial nuisance. its possible sure. . And perhaps the guy that has decided to name and shame someone also had a bad day and took offence at something another reasonable person wouldnt. And perhaps in their vile mood they embellish the story somewhat. Once its posted and people read it, it's very hard to truely retract and thus the stigmatization occurs.

 

 Trying to defend yourself publicly on the internet is also typically a futile exercise that degenerates into an unpleasant mudsling. Such a thread would likely devolve in this way as people attempt to defend their reputation, rightly or wrongly. From a game community POV, having such a smelly threadnaught (and it would become a threadnaught) is surely undesirable.

[Petrov]

It's the internet.  We will never be able to rid of the trolls.  Having a list can lead to abuse on both sides.  What we need is good game mechanics and tools to deal with them.  If there is clear trolling, submit a video and have Game-Labs deal with them.

[SeethDark]

Personaly it makes me laugh if i see someone insulting in game, thats just funny people getin so much angry coz they lost in virtual world or takin it too much serious, games was invented for relax and fun, if u too much stressing yourself probably you should choose some other way of relaxation in your free time;)

 

but anyway, insulting can made bad influence to lot of players, so the solution could be temporary disable for use chat window for those whos inisulting or shouting too much, either in local chat or in the battle. For recognize the bad behavior can either give the 'locking power' for most active and honorable players in game (we can even vote here in forum who could it be to get those duties;) ,..or by making report/ignore button in game, if one will be ignored or reported by enough number of players than he will simple loose ability to use chat anymore for a while.

 

For trolling behavior in game such as 'wasting time coz i want to do it', ..well best solution is cpt. Nornica advice to chill with a beer;), ..or followin the potbs, if u not shoot or get hit in few mins, u can exit the battle with a draw.

[NorthernWolves]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this, so I'll put it here.

 

I'm not going to name the person because he's a polite player I've played with a lot and after I pointed the following out, he agreed it was a bad idea.

 

Towards the end of a match I started getting blasted by a teammate, I asked him what he was doing and he said getting some damage in before the game ends.

 

I told him to not do that again because then everyone will start doing it, and then they will start doing it earlier and earlier in the game and then there will be a huge stink.

 

However, if I see anyone else doing this, your name will go here. I'm not talking about friendly fire or accidentally lag ramming someone etc, I'm talking about intentionally blasting your teammate to get damage points. That is cheating and the devs already had to do a big patch to fix the problem.

 

The devs could fix this by not allowing damage for friendly hits, but I don't think that needs to be done, NA overall seems to have a good set of players and I think we can police ourselves and not force the dev to waste valuable time trying to stop more cheating.  

 

If anyone sees this happening, say something.

 

That is all

[Petrov]

I didn't want to make a new thread for this, so I'll put it here.

 

I'm not going to name the person because he's a polite player I've played with a lot and after I pointed the following out, he agreed it was a bad idea.

 

Towards the end of a match I started getting blasted by a teammate, I asked him what he was doing and he said getting some damage in before the game ends.

 

I told him to not do that again because then everyone will start doing it, and then they will start doing it earlier and earlier in the game and then there will be a huge stink.

 

However, if I see anyone else doing this, your name will go here. I'm not talking about friendly fire or accidentally lag ramming someone etc, I'm talking about intentionally blasting your teammate to get damage points. That is cheating and the devs already had to do a big patch to fix the problem.

 

The devs could fix this by not allowing damage for friendly hits, but I don't think that needs to be done, NA overall seems to have a good set of players and I think we can police ourselves and not force the dev to waste valuable time trying to stop more cheating.  

 

If anyone sees this happening, say something.

 

That is all

I can't even understand why someone would do that.  A solution.  Keep FF on, but damage dealt to teammates does not count.

[Saintduiex]

If it were to continue the way to easily eliminate it during alpha is to put the damage on the guy shooting, not his teammate.

So, broadside a teammate? Great, that's about 1,000 points of damage that you just inflicted on yourself with no damage points added to you total.

Seems right