I AM BORED: Why I am thinking of quitting Naval Action

[SeamanStaines]

Don Sanchez and others are voicing the opinion of many of us. And unless you are one of the "lucky" players that enjoys cutthroat hit-and-run, piracy or ganking (and its sequel revenge ganking), then this patch (and maybe this game) may not be for you. 

Naval Action has changed so much in the last few weeks that its barely recognizable to many players who have been around since the beginning. Some of the more  unpopular things we thought had gone away for good have returned, and some good hard-won changes have gone away. A host of new untried features have suddenly appeared out of the blue.

Sadly for many, its an epically regressive patch. Progression is replaced by grind, battles by ganks, RvR by under-the table-deals and excitement by frustration. The word "fun" has disappeared to be replaced the strange notion of "a sense of loss" that is apparently imperative in a game nowadays. For me its a very fine line between a "sense of loss" and being demoralized.

Worse still, Admin now appears to be disinterested in mainstream opinion and has clearly stated the new direction of the game in a series of surprising posts in the Naval No-Action thread. Although its recognized that the game is indeed more "challenging" and may in fact be too much for some players, this is not seen as an issue (although there follows some motivational nonsense about leadership that I could not understand). Fun does not appear to be high on the agenda these days.

Many of us have plenty of real challenges, frustrations and (indeed) boredom in our lives without taking on an additional load in our leisure time. Not all of us are massively competitive "win at any cost" types. Some of us are revolted by "seal clubbing" as a way of getting ahead and actually have an unfashionable sense of fair-play. Many of us are mature people interested in naval history, not juvenile gamers, and shudder at the thought of clan orders and  "charismatic leadership". Many of us only require some degree of mental stimulation, some hope of progression and a reasonable amount of entertainment without the need to devote our lives or sell our souls to obtain success. 

As the current incarnation of Naval Action offers little to a sizable number of us (including many some veterans), I am predicting that many will stop playing. This is indeed a terrible shame as the game has much potential. I truly hope that sanity eventually prevails and that the DEVS realize that they need a more inclusive game rather than this bizarre hardcore vision that they propose.  But I suspect that this wont be the case until the player base has once again been whittled down sufficiently to make denial impossible.

 

[zaba]

Just now, Don Sancho Navarro said:

And it's going to lose the remaining 1000 if the game does not become less demanding and more fun.

Past loose is is a fact, future is unknown

[Don Sancho Navarro]

32 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Yes. Player decision, not game mechanics decision. Sorry for sounding blunt but we are making ourselves more harm than good with proving everlasting peace all around us and then blame the mechanics which have nothing to do with it.

The fact is a given region from a faction neighbors another region from another faction.

Dear  Mr Red Duke. 

Please, do not deviate from the main issue. I'm not complaining about the location of Habana, I'm complaining about the unbalance between time invested and fun in the game. This game is no longer fun for me because I have to spend too much time farming money and resources. And I offered a simple way of fixing this. 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Don Sancho Navarro

[Don Sancho Navarro]

27 minutes ago, victor said:

Of course: make everything more costly by keeping the same average gold income for players. Futher deflation is exactly the best medicine to save a starving player driven game economy.

Just for sake of completeness, I remind you that two month ago the population was so low mainly because the Devs had the genial idea to announce a total asset wipe and then to delay it further and further.

Even when the population was so low I continued playing because the game was so fun. Now I'm seriously weighing the option of leaving, the game is not so fun any more, because of boring repetitive ways of obtaining scarce resources.

[zaba]

1 minute ago, SeamanStaines said:

Don Sanchez and others are voicing the opinion of many of us. And unless you are one of the "lucky" players that enjoys cutthroat hit-and-run, piracy or ganking (and its sequel revenge ganking), then this patch (and maybe this game) may not be for you. 

He is not talking about that problem. 

What i see here is people asking for something like that:

I´m a gym client, but a casual one, only when "i feel sportive". Because i have a work, a life, bla, bla, bla. And gym is a hobby, only do it for fun. Everythin ok till now.

BUT, because this is a gym and i´m a customer, WTF i can´t get the CR7 body, like these other freaks who spend here all his time. Let´s blame the gym for that, ok?

 

I know that sounds rude, but is the first example i find.

What i want to say is that seems that we have a divided playerbase, and blocks have totally opposite point of view. Make happy one group and you´ll have unhappy the other half.

I think devs have made his choice and hope this is continue the way they start after the wipe, because if we get the play you want, itñs me who is going to quit, and yes, in this case, you can get my stuff , here is the main problem i think 

[Ronald Speirs]

When you think about it Naval Action Legends was announced to take this game back to the basics of being just a fun PvP arena game, it worked and many enjoyed it. The whole open world concept for the game should have been the pinnacle but lack of real capacity to make it work has show that now the developers seem to want to go back to the basics instead of finding the right balance and structures to make the actual Open World game work, if i was a betting man i think after NAL comes out that development and actual steps forward in the OW game will just about be non existent and probably shutdown as a failure and just focus on the NAL game.

[Sir William Hargood]

4 minutes ago, zaba said:

I think devs have made his choice and hope this is continue the way they start after the wipe, because if we get the play you want, itñs me who is going to quit, and yes, in this case, you can get my stuff , here is the main problem i think 

Of course the Devs have a right to Develop the game whichever way they wish or determine is correct. That doesn't necessarily mean its going to attract the required player base to be sustainable nor profitable. The balance is of course to satisfy sufficient players to keep the game alive. And that means enough predators and prey...I fear though if you turn the game into work you may get the unintended results.

[Hethwill]

23 minutes ago, Don Sancho Navarro said:

Dear  Mr Red Duke. 

Please, do not deviate from the main issue. I'm not complaining about the location of Habana, I'm complaining about the unbalance between time invested and fun in the game. This game is no longer fun for me because I have to spend too much time farming money and resources. And I offered a simple way of fixing this. 

Was a direct reply to the "time it takes to sail to war". 

offtopic: check your PM.

[Don Sancho Navarro]

21 minutes ago, zaba said:

He is not talking about that problem. 

What i see here is people asking for something like that:

I´m a gym client, but a casual one, only when "i feel sportive". Because i have a work, a life, bla, bla, bla. And gym is a hobby, only do it for fun. Everythin ok till now.

BUT, because this is a gym and i´m a customer, WTF i can´t get the CR7 body, like these other freaks who spend here all his time. Let´s blame the gym for that, ok?

 

I know that sounds rude, but is the first example i find.

What i want to say is that seems that we have a divided playerbase, and blocks have totally opposite point of view. Make happy one group and you´ll have unhappy the other half.

I think devs have made his choice and hope this is continue the way they start after the wipe, because if we get the play you want, itñs me who is going to quit, and yes, in this case, you can get my stuff , here is the main problem i think 

I'm sorry, but you chose a very bad example which has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Let's continue with your analogy. If I get enrolled on a gym and I have a couple of hours to do some exercise,  I don't want the gym to grill me with a daily health check up, including a digital rectal examination, plus filling forms for every machine I use, watching health and safety videos, or have a chat with a psychologist to find out the reasons for my chubbiness. If I go to a gym is not to get a CR7 body, whatever that is. I go to the gym to do some exercise and stay healthy. If the gym takes too much time from the exercise for other non related activities, then I will en toll in another gym, or practice more sex to stay fit. 

Do you understand it now?

[zaba]

2 minutes ago, Don Sancho Navarro said:

Let's continue with your analogy. If I get enrolled on a gym and I have a couple of hours to do some exercise,  I don't want the gym to grill me with a daily health check up, including a digital rectal examination, plus filling forms for every machine I use, watching health and safety videos, or have a chat with a psychologist to find out the reasons for my chubbiness

Nobody forces you to do this, continuing tha analogy. Depend of what you want to get (CR7 body)

Edited June 19, 2017 by zaba

[Don Sancho Navarro]

3 minutes ago, zaba said:

Nobody forces you to do this, continuing tha analogy. Depend of what you want to get (CR7 body)

 

Exactly. I want to have fun. I used to have a lot of fun, and I am not having fun any more. And it seems I'm not the only one. 

[m31k0r]

First, I feel my poor English.

The second, I am 100% agree with the Don Sancho, the game is horrible at the moment.

Marine life is hard, but this is a game not a torture.

 

En primer lugar siento mi nivel de ingles.

En segundo lugar, estoy al cien por cien a favor con lo que a expuesto Don Sancho, en estos momentos es horrible jugar a este juego sin tiempo.

La vida del marinero es dura pero recordemos que esto es un juego no una tortura, todos queremos JUGAR y DIVERTIRNOS.

 

 

As always I want to thank the google translator my faithful colleague and friend in the forums.

Como siempre le quiero dar las gracias al traductor de google mi fiel compañero y amigo en los foros.

 

[shaeberle84]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Monetary supply was cut drastically in the wipe patch. For example will be relaxing costs for some of the lower tier vessels in the near future. 
 

Concerning the grind, you should really also consider lowering some other costs, for example repair kits, or increase some rewards.

Using one hull repair kit wil most certainly cost as much as one pve mission gives you as rewards (not counting loot, okay). For example lower the iron ingots requirements for hull repairs by 50% or lower the hemp requirements of canvas rolls by 50%.

Regarding pve, I would really like to see loot increased, more varying cannons drop for fighting ships (sometimes longs and carronades!) and more loot in general for trader AI ships. 

Concerning capturing ships, the game is very inconsistent right now.

For PVP you say either sink the ship and get reward, or get the ship as a reward.

For PVE you say sink the ship, there is no alternative. This is not only unrealistic, but also severly hurts the economy, which had been built in large parts on ship captures. I suggest to being able to capture AI ships, with no PVE rewards, similarly to the system in PVP. You can then decide on three options, 1. sell the ship for 1/3 of the NPC value (= equivalent to the PVE reward right now), 2. breaking up the ship for about 20% of the materials needed, 3. capture and sail the ship, but this requires a permit that uses PVE marks (similar to the system for 4th rates and above).

This would increase player motivation, reduce the grind, balance the economy, and increase the availability of (cheap) ships to do PVP.

[zaba]

1 minute ago, Don Sancho Navarro said:

 

Exactly. I want to have fun. I used to have a lot of fun, and I am not having fun any more. And it seems I'm not the only one. 

And i´m sorry about that and i´m not trolling now, because If it were backwards, sure that my feelings were likw yours. Because i like the game like it is now and have a lot of fun.

And because all that, again, I "leave the barricades". You want one game and me another diferent, it is a matter of taste. 

Hope that at the end, We both have a game with which to have fun. Although it seems difficult

[SeamanStaines]

6 minutes ago, zaba said:

And i´m sorry about that and i´m not trolling now, because If it were backwards, sure that my feelings were likw yours. Because i like the game like it is now and have a lot of fun.

And because all that, again, I "leave the barricades". You want one game and me another diferent, it is a matter of taste. 

Hope that at the end, We both have a game with which to have fun. Although it seems difficult

Zaba whereas we may be on opposite sides of the fence I applaud your politeness. Its very rare these days.

[Don Sancho Navarro]

11 minutes ago, SeamanStaines said:

Zaba whereas we may be on opposite sides of the fence I applaud your politeness. Its very rare these days.

I agree. Im so surprised by the level of civility in this thread. Where have all the trolls gone?

[fox2run]

7 hours ago, admin said:

lower level ships should be a bit cheaper. 

 

All levels should be cheaper. We need this game to be living. All kind of players should have access to the game. Not only the hard core guys. Before any player could advance and build his own lineships. Now this is almost impossible. It shouldnt be like that.

[Marques]

FOR two years I was playing this game....but everyday become worse....no captures...no money....bad trade....no politics...where are the changes that players asking for across two years ago ??....Is incredible how the DEVs change everyday to do a bad game.  Please refund the basic rules from one year ago !  The game was some fun.....now is very awfull boring !!!!...shit wasting time, to do nothing....even fishing does not work...imposible to make money.....the last wipe is a list of terrible mistakes....Now you even cannot fight cutter vs cutter..why ??? can you explain...  is the worse idea someone can imagine.......If they need to do nonsenses changes ...please include Portugal Faction  (d u P v) ( sorry not traslation for this...De una puta vez)...Thanks

I would recommended you to fix the game..... Merely is not playable. You wil see how the people leave everyday.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Marques

[EdWatchmaker]

Don Navarro,

Don't let the game frustrate you. With all these changes it'll take some time for it all to sort out. Remember it is not complete and will be in flux till it is. ATM I would suggest you take a little break and go to the PVE server. Just sail around, meet some people and get used to the new ways. Hop back on the PVP server from time to time and see if it is better for you. Also could try the other PVP server if you want more battles. Spain needs you on Global, it is very underpopulated. If your clan is interested you could all go as a team. Make it a crusade. Save Espana! For the King and glory! Use your imagination. I myself only have an hour or so each day that I can play so I have to make it count.

Take care and have a great day.   

[Farrago]

I don't want to minimize the frustration that you (and In fact, most players) are facing. The economy is tough right now. But my opinion is it is better for it to be too tough than too easy as things can always be loosened but are harder to tighten up. What has helped me is making smaller goals and working on them in a more focused way. Whether it's have a 400k cushion, be able to afford more dock space, not buy guns until I can get crafted, less expensive guns, slowly assemble the mats to have a 4th rate built, etc.

The days of us all having every ship with every skill, every mod, and being filthy rich are behind us.

Hang in there. I hope you find your fun. 

Edited June 19, 2017 by Farrago

[King of Crowns]

7 hours ago, Nelson Hornblower said:

But how many hours do you play per day. The OP is making a point that the casual gamer, can't succeed in this game, due to the hours it takes just to make money. And the 1 ship is tough, you lose it and start over. The argument of "don't lose a ship you can't afford" is great in theory, but makes for a boring game for the casual player, as they have to spend MORE time, getting more money and ships, to lose that one ship. 

 

Part of the problem is the map is too large, I don't have the time to sail 2 hours to look for a PVP fight and then sail home; so maybe this game isn't geared towards me and really is geared for people who can play 6 hours a day. The solution was teleport to freetowns, let me set up an outpost deep in enemy territory so I can do some raiding quickly!

I'm not sure naval action is designed to be for the casual gamer........ it does say hardcore age of sail game in the description on steam. but a casual can find comfort in a large clan such as ultra or sorry or w/e they will give him 90% of the crap he needs if he will just show up to help them with a pb or something.

[King of Crowns]

this is the first time since the steam release of the game that the game isn't bleeding off players like crazy. I remember you could watch it drop by about 100 each day this time last year. the numbers seem to be holding somewhat steady/growing. so while some are fustraded perhaps the majority is content. but we can all agree that at least some minor changes need to happen and the devs have already said that they will be doing some. For me I think those 1st rates are way to easy to get. I think they need to multiply the amount of CQ marks it takes by at least 10. this way there would at least be some diversity in ships in pbs. one 1st rate takes about 3months for 25 people get the marks together. 

[Bach]

12 hours ago, Don Sancho Navarro said:

Hello fellow captains and developers.

I would like to share with you my thoughts on the latest patch, and the changes that have been introduced in the game which, in my case, are forcing me to seriously consider quitting the game.

First of all, let me confess that i am no power gamer. Naval action is the first online game I have bought and probably the last. I have no double, triple or quadruple account, and the best I can do is 2-3 hours of playing daily, after long hours of boring office work. I'm just an average so-so captain that still struggles with the manual sails, and the aiming of my cannons.

I belong to a small clan in the Spanish Faction called La Santa Hermandad. Small but very tight and organized. Over the two years and many hours of talking over the TS, we have become friends, and right now they are the only reason I'm still playing Naval Action.

After the last patch, I have been working hard to try to recover from the wipe. To the best of my ability I have tried to earn money, doing missions and trading to be able to extract resources in order to be able to craft ships for my clan. I know my clan mates have been doing pretty much the same.

And after three weeks of work, I have the feeling of being pretty much where I started. I'm stuck, my keel has struck the shoals and I'm going nowhere.

Here is what I think the fundamental flaw of the patch: The imbalance between time invested versus rewards received. Money is too hard to earn, it takes a lot of time. All of this time spent earning money (missions/trade) is not spent doing the fun stuff (PVP). As a result, I AM BORED. This is especially sad because I have had long hours of fun and entertainment with the previous versions of this game, and i know the potential of Naval Action.

So, my humble suggestion would be: 1) Increase the amounts of rewards in the missions, 2) revert the economy to its previous version, in which trading was a viable way of earning money, and 3) lower the cost of resource extraction. These three simple things would free time for all of us to actually play the game, and enjoy the new game mechanics.

Also, transport between ports has become another very boring exercise. If I have only two hours to play I don't want to spend them sailing to Havana. Teleport to capital should return, maybe even tow requests.

An additional imbalance which is creating a lot of frustration is the fake port battles to earn conquest marks. This mechanic is being exploited by big clans to earn defence/conquest marks, which allows them building of bigger ships and widens the gap between small and big clans. I'm not saying conquest or defence marks should not be awarded in port battles, I'm saying that fake, staged battles with the sole purpose of farming conquest marks are creating a lot of frustration in some segments of the player community, which cannot, or are not allowed to participate in these port battles. A fake battle would be very easy to identify by the number of shots fired, damage done and ships sunk. If the goal of the NA developers is creating a realistic game and a level playing field for all players, I do not understand why this obvious and public exploit is allowed to remain.

I have shared my frustration with many other veteran captains in the Spanish faction, and i can see that they are all in a similar or worse situation.

Please, make the game easier and more fun, give us more money for our time, i'm fed up of doing boring mission after mission against super accurate raking expert IAs just to see all the money earned disappear inside my mines.

Thank you.

Don Sancho Navarro

Jefe de Escuadra

What server are you playing on?

There actually are casual ways to make gold. However, there is no game manual to explain them.  The old traditional methods don't work casually anymore.

[Slamz]

Just wanted to chime in and say that a Fir/Fir Trincom is only about 80k to click out. I think I made more than enough money for several Trincs yesterday just casually grinding XP on my Surprise to unlock boxes.

Granted that assumes an ideal communist clan environment and doesn't account for hauling times and so forth, but just in terms of pure cash you need to build one, that's about what it takes: 80k.

What's crushing a lot of people is this insane need to build line ships.

And I wonder how many of them are going to quit when they lose their first line ship.

Could probably fight 25 1st rates vs 25 5th rates, sink like 3 of the first rates and win the war because those 3 people quit and never come back whereas the 25 Trincs and Essexes just shrug and click out another one. A few battles like that and they're out of 1st rate pilots..... (and 1st rates).

 

This game is not as hard as some of you make it be.

[Pigafetta]

Don Navarro,

I am back playing the game after a hiatus. I understand your frustration and I think that a game should be entertaining, funny to play, and/or relaxing if you wish. I still love the game and its mechanics. I think it is challenging, complicated, and funny to play.  So I will continue to play and see where the Devs will take it. 

If there is a suggestion for the Devs, is to create ASAP a clear tutorial for new players. The game, right now, has a very slow beginning and I can understand how new players feel confused... there is so much to do and it could be difficult (I think that is the real challenge) how to manage things, get money, and progress in the game.

I wrote it so many times in the past and I will repeat it here: I am here for the journey so I will keep playing the game and see where the Devs will take me with it.

Best of luck Don Navarro.