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Corona Lisa

A nightmare for casuals

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I like a lot of the changes in this patch, but for casual players, noobs and returners this is not much fun.

They sit in their basic cutter, forced to do PvE missions for hours jsut to afford cannons for the next class. If they get boarded in PvE or dare to try PvP and sink they drop back to where they were before. Grinding in the cutter again, getting 7k per mission.

Meanwhile more experienced players who understood the trading system abuse national goods to their limit, making more and more money. They are already able to buy all profitable resources from multiple ports at once, leaving not much for casuals who randomly come across this port.

 

The current economy system is a spirale. The higher you get the easier it is to make money, while the noobs at the bottom are starving. You cant expect them to understand the trading system within the first hours when they play. They need to get rewarded if they do something, give them a free Snow or something with cannons after 5 basic cutter missions and they will be happy..

All they get right now is punishment and I think they will quit in a week or 2.

 

Next problem is PvP. To learn PvP you need to get on your and your ships limits. That means sinking is an important part. But right now you cannot afford to sink as a new player.

 

Suggestions:

  • Free Snow with cannons after 5 basic cutter missions (once a week possible).
  • more gold for basic cutter missions
  • less margin for national goods
Edited by Jon Snow lets go
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It's a PVP sandbox. They already have free cutters with free repairs and crew.

What else to you need? Walk them by hand? There are plenty of tutorials on steam and youtube. 

Even now people who are "experienced" for some reason jump into Surprise, spend all their money on arming it and then.. lose it and blame admin or devs or system.

It was their choice as it was my choice to not redeem Surp or Indef yet but to sail Privateer and Mercury and my Traders Brig to build workshop today. 

There is already too much free stuff given like Surps and Indefs. Traders Brig was already a HUGE help. Don't know what more is needed.

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I would say increase trading goods in all ports and decrese a bit their weights so more people can benefit from trade.

Also, all the money sinks like expand outposts, open new outposts, mining, buying ressources and medium cannons in shops should be a bit decreased.

Noobs dont trade, noobs dont need more slots for ships.

 

They need to get money from PvE missions to get started. And also more trading goods and less weight means rich players can buy even more of them at once and transport them.

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Noobs also learn from veteran clans members how to get money.

I share always my knowleddge about the game with my guys.

Cool but that does not solve the problem that this game will loose the noobs in no time, so you are left with the hardcore on the server, exactly that is the problem this game has. We NEED the casuals/noobs to drive a economy and keep the hardcore into the game.

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11 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Noobs dont trade, noobs dont need more slots for ships.

 

They need to get money from PvE missions to get started. And also more trading goods and less weight means rich players can buy even more of them at once and transport them.

Noobs always can ask the most simple question in Global: "how can I earn money". Each time they get the same answer - use traders tool and trade. Then it's just a question of whether person want to learn or just want to pew-pew.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Cool but that does not solve the problem that this game will loose the noobs in no time, so you are left with the hardcore on the server, exactly that is the problem this game has. We NEED the casuals/noobs to drive a economy and keep the hardcore into the game.

Noobs who aren't interested in learning the game mechanics will leave anyway. It's nature of modern gaming community spoiled by too many session based game. This game will never attract too many casuals. For casual playing there are buttload of other games.

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Well, I'd get rid of trading goods altogether and significantly increase gold rewards from combat, both PvE and PvP. Bring back gold for damage too.

Players should be encouraged to go out and fight.

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6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

We NEED the casuals/noobs to drive a economy

What if a newcomer doesn't want to deal with trading and just wants to do combat and commerce raiding ?

I'd say we NEED veterans to start properly showing what can be done in the game and not funnel them into powergaming playstyles where they skip essential parts of learning especially at  combat level.

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1 minute ago, Vaan De Vries said:

Noobs who aren't interested in learning the game mechanics will leave anyway. It's nature of modern gaming community spoiled by too many session based game. This game will never attract too many casuals. For casual playing there are buttload of other games.

Problem is they are problably interested in the beginning, that why they are asking, but as there is no help gamewise to know what you should/can do, they gonna leave confused.

If you design a game for only hardcore players that is also a niche game, you are doomed to try it to be MMO. Just make the game accessable, give players rewards for playing the game. Make it fun.

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8 minutes ago, Vaan De Vries said:

Noobs always can ask the most simple question in Global: "how can I earn money". Each time they get the same answer - use traders tool and trade. Then it's just a question of whether person want to learn or just want to pew-pew.

 

NOrmally I do this all the time back before patch, but right now I'll be flat honest.....I'm not going to tell any one crap cause than that means my means will be shorten on my own money making.  Though now that I got cannons up and going I'm making money on the side sailing cannons, but they aren't being bought fast mainly cause folks are broke and can't pay for them yet.

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21 minutes ago, Remus said:

Well, I'd get rid of trading goods altogether and significantly increase gold rewards from combat, both PvE and PvP. Bring back gold for damage too.

Players should be encouraged to go out and fight.

nooooo ... hush mate! I'm begging you. Do not suggest this.

then someone ... guess who :rolleyes: ... may end up using the big bad "hardcore" argument just to take half of your adivice, getting rid of trading goods while letting everything else as it is now.

Edited by victor
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54 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

 

I would say increase trading goods in all ports and decrese a bit their weights so more people can benefit from trade.

 

No. This will just make profits even more obscene for those who already monopolise the trade goods. 

AI is printing money just like before, only now no longer rewarded for PvE or PvP, just for trade goods. And now the number of people with a tap into the profits is more limited. Some players will be obscenely rich in 2 weeks tops.

Trade goods are the worst part of the economy. If we absolutely need to keep trade goods in the game because they have cool names and took time to implement, then make them exclusively available only when running trade missions, and limit the frequency with which you can take trade missions, and maybe create competition between people getting the same trading missions simultaneously.

Money from trading needs to come from producing, transporting and selling crafting resources and materials. Then you have multiple levels of limitations to prevent inflation in the market, labour hours, transport weight and not least demand.

Right now AI is printing money at an increased rate depending on your wealth. The "middle class" is shrinking away as we speak. 

160504154606-one-trillion-dollar-exlarge

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To b e honest put freaking trade goods where they need to be....ON THE TRADERS.  Part of the reason folks are doing the trade runs is cause the traders don't give you crap for cargo any more so it's really not even worth hunting them cause they give so little rewards other wise for xp and credits.

 

 

 

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Trade goods are off balance, Get rid of them.  Create trading missions out of manufactured goods. And do like Texas said, only trading goods on traders so once in a while you get a jackpot when hitting AI traders (like the hostorical artifact I got the other day).

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Trade goods are fine.  They offer an alternative to grinding cutters missions over and over.  Payouts need to be more if we're not keeping the AI traders and if all I get off a LGV is 75 fish.    

My biggest gripe is that the 1 dura system was implemented as sort of a counter for our previous system.  Everyone had too many ships and they weren't losing them.  Ok fine, 1 duras now.  But to lower the amount of ships out there you need to EITHER make ships easier to lose OR harder to craft/outfit.  Now they're easy to lose and a nightmare to craft and outfit.  And I haven't even lost a ship yet.  I dread it though.  Your average new player will take a couple days to get up to the redeemable surprise, outfit with cannons and crew, figure out he can't pull a solo mission in his home fleet and has to go to do a 4v1 Master Commandant fleet which was friggen tough for me to finish safely.  This new player will lose his surprise the very fist mission.  I'd quit.

It's simply too hard to get the ball rolling as a new player.  TF in the US nation has a new guy who just started the day of the patch.  He's like I'm so utterly overwhelmed and confused.  You can only help so much.  This is not a new player friendly game and if it does indeed go on the steam sale, things need to be fixed beforehand.  

Naval Action should be easy to learn and difficult to master.  

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Its not just the noobs. I feel the same. The fun has gone to be replaced by frustration.

Edited by SeamanStaines
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24 minutes ago, Christendom said:

,,,,

Naval Action should be easy to learn and difficult to master.  

And I thought it was very hard back when I started and it was cause of a lot of the game mechanics at the time, but I got to say if it was like it is now, a much better game but very much not new player friendly I would prob put this up on the shelf and not touch it again until it was finished.  I have lost two ships so far (not counting basic cutters as they really don't count).  One Trader Brig and a Surprise, but I got alts to fall back on for the extra ships.  That Surprise didn't evne have the cannons on it for 10 mins before it was in battle and got sunk.  Though I only had the bottom decks on it cause that was all I could afford at that time.  

I mean I have caught a few trader brings and sunk a bunch of basic cutters, but I'm not a new player.  I been around a long time and I know the ups and downs.  I just went around Crooked to look at the ships fleets and such.  Saw one British fleet of an Indefatigable, Essex and Niagara.  ALl the other ships I found was French or Spanish.  I made 100K sinking them on that trip but thought it was odd I only saw one ship.  How are we to get agro?  Turks was the same way.  Not to mention how will folks have ships to hunt when there isn't any british around at either region.  The only been getting fights with British cause we been going to KPR and camping it (mostly in cutters).   Folks aren't coming out to meet our mixed fleet of Suprises/Rennoms and Cutters with the same, it's s swarm of cutters only.   Cause they don't want to risk there ships and cannons.

I'll be honest I'm getting tired of the grind but I have to do it to get ships and the clan members into them and with cannons and than we need to have back ups and spares if we plan to do real PVP fighting that isn't running around in basic cutters.  Most of my buildings are sitting mostly full of supplies that I can't produce cause I can't afford the Fir (not one touched yet but full) and oak cause it's to expensive after I get my iron which is needed for everying thing.  Luckly the coal isn't to bad priced but still.....prodcution cost needs to be dropped big time.

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Nightmare for casuals? Hey, I'm not too proud to admit it's a FREAKING NIGHTMARE for me and I've been playing for a long time! I will express my opinion in art....this is an original and was published a while ago but still holds true:

Untitled.thumb.png.e3ca7d30a2d9d9783640909b9e0d64ef.png

 

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7 minutes ago, SeamanStaines said:

Its not just the noobs. I feel the same. The fun has gone to be replaced by frustration.

We had a guy rage big time after loosing I think it was his third ship.   He's so frustrated cause every time he gets a one with cannons and goes out some group ganks him.  Yah he keeps trying to make Mort to La Tort runs and we tell him not to go solo, but the cost of replacing stuff is not cheap.   He's frustrating a lot of us.  Games shouldn't be so hard your frustrated.  This is just going to make more folks stay in ports than they did before patch.

We have had other guys that sold most there redeemable ships to the shop cause they couldn't afford cannons and wanted some money to get started.  That how desperate some folks are.  They didn't even ask fellow flan members that would of bought it off them or helped them with the money.

And we haven't even gotten into the frustration folks are having to grind every freaking low level ship to get to the one you want to play.   Speaking of which still waiting for the ship knowledge tree Devs promised 3 days ago.

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3 hours ago, Vaan De Vries said:

It's a PVP sandbox. They already have free cutters with free repairs and crew.

What else to you need? Walk them by hand? There are plenty of tutorials on steam and youtube. 

Even now people who are "experienced" for some reason jump into Surprise, spend all their money on arming it and then.. lose it and blame admin or devs or system.

It was their choice as it was my choice to not redeem Surp or Indef yet but to sail Privateer and Mercury and my Traders Brig to build workshop today. 

There is already too much free stuff given like Surps and Indefs. Traders Brig was already a HUGE help. Don't know what more is needed.

Who here finds cutter missions exciting? I'm betting no-one.. And who here thinks that the skills u get from the cutter missions carries over to the larger ships? - only the noobs..

And the thing about choices - they are a lot easier to make on an informed ground. The question shouldn't be "does the experienced returnees make the right choices?" but rather: "how do we make this game easy to start up in, but difficult to master?" EDIT: for the new players that is.

Edited by Guest

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Personally, I'm not worried about grinding the tree. All the good mods/skill books take PVP marks which I will probably never get enough of anyways. ? 

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I am not worried about grinding the tree as well.  I play and pick knowlege as I get them.  Once I get to my sweet spot ship I may worry about knowlege slot 4/5. Not until then tho.  Play and enjoy.   

I make my money taking down AI traders  in a cutter until I can afford cannons and resources and crew.   

Resource extrsction needs to have the prices reduced by 15-25% I think.  From my early look see. 

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when-youre-a-pro-and-your-friend-is-a-noob-12540465.png

Think of the noobs......  Won't someone???  

(I sometimes wonder if people commenting about how hard it is for "noobs" think they're too "exceptional....)

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@Vernon Merrill Your not helping with your shit post.  The OP brings up a very valid point.

 

The solution is really simple, the cost to buy and outfit a ship with cannons should increase exponentially with increasing class of ships.  

Hypothetical Example:

a rank 1 admiralty order pays out 5000 gold, and possibly another 2-3k for sinking the ship.  Looting the ship before it sinks completely should reward with you with random loot, sometimes really good, and sometimes, just cheap stuff.  

average payout for doing a rank 1 mission total compensation on average is ~8000 gold.  

Total cost of a ship and cannons outfit example:

1)  Basic cutter:            0 gold cost

2)  Pickle:              2,500 gold

3)  Navy Brig:        4,000 gold

4)  Mercury:          6,000 gold  

5)  Surprise:        10,000 gold

6)  Trinc:              25,000 gold

7)  Connie:          45,000 gold

8)  Bellona:        250,000 gold

9)  Buc:              500,000 gold

10) Victory        1,00,000 gold

(not all ships included)

Another words, if I do 1 mission, that mission alone should be able to pay for 2 Navy brigs and fully outfit both of them with cannons.  This way the player feels like they are actually progressing.  It should take exponentially more work to get bigger and bigger ships so that people have goals to reach.  If someone loses a Bellona, Buc, or Victory, it should be a big deal and replacing the ship should be hard.  However, if someone loses a surprise, or frigate, it should be easily replaceable, just buy one from the NPC shop and buy new cannons for a total cost of what you would get from 2 missions.  

 

Building cannons and ships should be cheaper even than strait up buying ships, but be superior.  Easy way to do this is cap NPC ships at a maximum of 3 knowledge slots, and crafted ships get 5.  both NPC and player ships still get 3 permanent slots.  This solves 2 problems, the crafters feel valued as people can get better ships if they go through a crafter, but no one is left out hanging with no ship because you can buy NPC ships and cannons and get back into the action.  

Edited by Yar Matey
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Trading seems too risky for actual noobs.  Stuffing as much commodity as you can afford into your tiny cutter to maximize the profit and then risk losing it all for less profit than you can get from sinking a lynx which also gives you XP for no risk.  Noobs got no business redeeming the trader's brig and losing it, either.  I did one small cargo haul on day one after the wipe when I didn't think anyone was in the area yet, but now I'm just going to concentrate on learning how to sink ships and building XP.  I don't need any more money than I get from battles and looting at that pace.

The delivery mission system just sucks, too.  Almost all the missions go to hostile ports where you'd be food for the local thugs.

Edited by rownd

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