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baron1282

Brigade formations and regiment formations with a side of uniforms.

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While I understand you have the game set up in a way that allows me to be the Ultimate General, where I just give orders and the units do all the formations themselves.  I still feel as if I have very little control over the battlefield.  This is due to the fact that formations are very difficult to create on the battlefield without maneuvering each regiment on their own into the formation you want.  Keeping them in that formation is a nightmare!!

I would like to see options for brigade formations implanted.  It would be helpful to be able to set up formations within the "camp" menu so we can click on that option while on the battlefield and all the regiments form up into the brigade formation.  The way this could be done in game for a more realistic feel is to have the options in the commanding general menu for the brigade.


Maybe I want the brigade to form into one big line so I can attack with my line being as wide as possible.  Maybe I want three regiments up front and two in reserve in the back.  Depending on how big the brigade is, the formations would be carried out.  Maybe I have a brigade that has only two regiments, so the best option is almost always a full line for attack.  A brigade with three regiments could form up with two regiments in the front and one of them in the middle rear as reserves.  An option to set all my units in column formation while marching on the road would give my marching units a speed bonus while in column formation and on the road.  The general would be out in front and when they get closer to the battlefield, I would be able to click on the general and click on a formation option to set up an attack formation I want. It would be fun for us in the camp menu to make our own formations that can be implemented on the battlefield.

As far as individual regiment formations, I should be able to click on one regiment and have basic options.  Such as wheel right or left so I can face them easily to a flanking enemy without having to maneuver my mouse all over the place.  I can set open formation so they spread out a little, but still maintain their ranks.  This way it would give them a speed bonus while maneuvering though wooded area's, but their concentrated firepower would be effected. A skirmish formation would be nice as well, to allow me to spread out the line as far it it would go for less contradicted firepower but a more maneuverable unit.   It is basically the men are spread out in a row of two at least 10 paces apart, the front group fires and the back group moves forward to become the front group and fires.  A leap frog type of maneuvering.  A lot of times a brigade formation would throw out a company or two of skirmishers in front of the main advancing line in order to draw the fire away from the main line.  That could be a way to set up a brigade formation as well.

I hope you can implement more options for troop deployments, the game is fun but maneuvering individual regiments all the time gets tedious.  Options within each generals menu to form up a brigade fast would be very helpful.  Also just as a quick afterthought.  Have an option to attach a regiment to a brigade.  Say a regiment from another brigade is on their own due to the brigade being wiped out, it's still combat effective and can just quickly be attached to another brigade for the rest of the battle. 

One last thing.  I have not played the campaign a lot so I really don't know if you modeled different uniforms.  A lot of Civil War units had different uniforms, it would be cool to see that implemented into the game.  What would be REALLY cool is if you guys could have a uniform editor within the camp menu.  This way I could edit uniforms for a regiment that I really like and I could always see them on the battlefield.  Being that the campaign is my campaign and not necessarily historically accurate, I think that would be very cool.  In preset historical battles make the uniforms accurate.

In short, give me more formation options that were historically accurate or allow me to build formations within the camp menu.  Give me more historically accurate uniforms in preset historical battles and let me edit uniforms when I play a none historical campaign. 

Thank you guys for all the hard work you are putting into this game.  I was really itching for a good Civil War game and this game really scratches that itch! ;-p

Edited by baron1282

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59 minutes ago, baron1282 said:

One last thing.  I have not played the campaign a lot so I really don't know if you modeled different uniforms.  A lot of Civil War units had different uniforms,...

Why do people insist on saying this. This is outright not knowing your topic.

By late 1861 early 1862 both sides, had established their military quartermasters departments which came complete with entire published and enforced regulations on uniform design and colors.  The Union side chose a dark blue jacket with sky blue trousers, and the Confederates chose cadet gray. However, thanks to the lack of materials or the varieties of materials available, the Confederates ended up with a variety of shades of gray/homespun/brown/tan/etc., many received clothing from home for a mixture. And while at the beginning of the war, the USSS (United States Sharp Shooters) who were equipped in green, they eventually traded those in for the government issue of dark blue and sky blue, they personally removed the brass buttons and used wood or other non reflective materials.

As soon as all the militia, (where you get the different uniforms,) were accepted into the volunteer ranks, they were immediately outfitted with the standard military uniform from their respective sides. Standardizing on uniforms managed costs and a general uniformity in the ranks.  Elaborate militia uniforms were far too expensive to maintain and re-equip, they were banished from both sides military services.

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Let's see, where do I get this information?  I don't know, I only reenacted the Civil War for many years.  While true that the standard blue and gray was the standard issue later in the war, the key word being LATER in the war, plus just because something is standard did not mean many units followed the standard.  Many uniforms were modified to reflect where the unit came from and a lot of the times the kepis were replaced with civilian hats. This could be reflected in the game.  Artillery officers wore red kepis and pants, Calvary wore yellow kepis and don't forget the Zouave units. https://www.infoplease.com/us/american-wars/civil-war-uniform

So many different variations of uniforms existed late in the war as well.  A lot of the times the standard was changed to suit unit commanders or represented where the unit was from.  While the units had the basic look with the blue and the gray the uniforms still varied.  I really don't think you have a grasp on Civil War uniform history to make the argument that all units wore the basic battle uniforms.  Confederates  soldiers especially!

One thing I noticed in the game that needs to be addressed as well when it comes to formations.  Units hardly EVER fought four deep.  Most of the time units were shoulder the shoulder double ranked. The units being so deep in ranks is just wrong.  Do double ranks please!

Edited by baron1282

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In truth when one looks at each side's uniform specifications there was mostly a difference in trim when it came to Northern Units.

The Infantry uniforms were designed to have light blue trim.  The artillery red.  The cavalry yellow, the dragoons orange, and the mounted rifles green (though these were all re-designated as cavalry in 1861).  In many cases the Union army was rebranded within the first year and a half of the war and eccentric uniforms removed unless someone else chose to foot the bill.  The black hats of the Iron Brigade were gathered from extras from the regular units.

The Southern arms had a much wider array and differing view.  Many of the units were initially raised and clothed by their individual states or leaders.  This was generally phased out due to the cost and inability of the south to provide that kind of differentiation to its units.  This was the side that preferred to color the whole kepi for artillery officers and so on. 

On both sides there were different uniforms allowed, so long as the government did not have to foot the bill.  Many a fortune was spent clothing a unit for its first engagement and then the person who funded the unit went broke trying to keep the regiment clothed and thereby the differing clothing was done away with.

While I appreciate the idea of the uniform craze for a game I think this brings up a major argument that has been going on in various threads in regards to the game.  

The argument is generally perfect historical accuracy vs. better game play

There are so many things that can be argued on both sides of that argument.  As a historian of the U.S. Cavalry I would love to see that part more historically accurate, yet having played other massive strategy games in the past I understand the difficulty of balancing historical accuracy with gameplay.

I think the best way to address the uniform question would be DLC later once the game is finished.  In the armory screen you could purchase different uniforms at a higher cost.

As for the unit formations, again while I agree with you in principle, allowing more flexibility would be awesome.  I believe the game scale would have to be drastically redrawn with maps remade to a different scale for it to work correctly.  There were a couple of the old Bull Run games that did a great idea of formation moving yet they did not continue the games long enough to make full campaigns.  Though it could be possible, I don't know if the game is ready for that idea yet.

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Buford

I agree, playing the game more I found the battle line drawing fun.  Generally it allows for my units to form up where I want them, but I guess I like a locked formation setting.  Where I can lock my units into a formation and just push a button to have them advance or fall back.  For example, I have my units in a full battle line and instead of drawing the battle line again for them to advance forward, I would like to just press a button and let them advance a few paces forward and I just keep pushing until they advance as a line to where I want them.  I also found the detach skirmishers option, so that was a neat find and bravo to the development team for adding that!!  

The one thing they do need to fix above all is simply the ranks!  I had units five deep shooting over the shoulders.  I know this would never happen with how I fought when reenacting the Civil War.  Two deep for a reason!  Simply make the numbers the same, but the animations with just two ranks instead of 4 or 5 deep. 

Overall I do think clicking on a general and issuing formation orders wouldn't be a hard thing to program.  Animations could be cleaned up and the scale wouldn't need to change.  Just make the units two deep, but the numbers of the unit the same.  Just for a more accurate look.

As for historical accuracy.  I think you need the basics down.  Like how units actually moved and fought, and during historical battles that are kind of preset authenticity should be number one with how units actually looked.  During the campaign being how you are a general and this is your corps, I believe you can have a unit editor and just have some fun with it for game play.  If you want historical accuracy within the campaign, the developers need to just have an option where you click and set the campaign to historical accuracy.  Meaning you don't create the Army's, the army is preset how it was during the battles and throughout the Civil War.

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On 5/28/2017 at 7:29 PM, baron1282 said:

I agree, playing the game more I found the battle line drawing fun.  Generally it allows for my units to form up where I want them, but I guess I like a locked formation setting.  Where I can lock my units into a formation and just push a button to have them advance or fall back.  For example, I have my units in a full battle line and instead of drawing the battle line again for them to advance forward, I would like to just press a button and let them advance a few paces forward and I just keep pushing until they advance as a line to where I want them.

This would be really nice - a command to advance or fallback whole formations. Also not have them go quite so far when falling back.

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@Quicksabre.

Yes, I agree!  All this can be done with though the generals command menu.  In a locked formation the general would be a fixed unit within the formation.  I can still command individual regiments like now if needed.

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