UGCW Feedback v0.80

[Col_Kelly]

Well they had a part in the making of the m1 Garand and even the m14 later on but I've never heard of the 1963 model XD

[vren55]

5 hours ago, Col_Kelly said:

Springfield rifles were still a thing after WW2 ? Interesting

... woops XD

[Bigjku]

On 5/25/2017 at 9:42 PM, Wright29 said:

Caps on weapons drop? 

Never experienced that. Legendary and Hard drop levels are very low but not capped. 

Do you get weapons from shattered units?  That is where I think the breakdown may be.  I went back to my Gettysburg save and while I didn't kill a lot more people it was because I mostly shattered the units that were left and couldn't kill them.

I think what would make more sense is something like this.

10% for kills is fine.

50% for the size of each shattered unit.

75% from each captured unit.

I think that really would give you incentive to push hard all the time.  Then to me the last issue is how to get the union so they have union weapons and the CSA has more of a mix rather than mostly Springfields.  My suggestion for the union would be for the government to simply swap out like rifles for like rifles.  It's kind of weird but at least it would look better to have a bunch of 1861 and 1863's than a whole corps of Richmonds.

[The Soldier]

@Bigjku

Based solely on the number of enemy soldiers killed / cannon destroyed.  On Easy and Normal, about 25%.  If you kill 4k men, you'll get 1k weapons in return (based on what weapon they're using ofc, so you might get 700 CS Richmonds and 300 Fayettevilles, for example).  Shattered units aren't anything special, I've been able to shatter nearly the whole Union force and still get 25% of their weapons, or only kill a small number of men from each brigade and still get 25% of their weapons.  Captured units, however, give virtually of their weapons over.  If there is anything, it's so small that I can't find it in my calculations.

[Bigjku]

33 minutes ago, The Soldier said:

@Bigjku

Based solely on the number of enemy soldiers killed / cannon destroyed.  On Easy and Normal, about 25%.  If you kill 4k men, you'll get 1k weapons in return (based on what weapon they're using ofc, so you might get 700 CS Richmonds and 300 Fayettevilles, for example).  Shattered units aren't anything special, I've been able to shatter nearly the whole Union force and still get 25% of their weapons, or only kill a small number of men from each brigade and still get 25% of their weapons.  Captured units, however, give virtually of their weapons over.  If there is anything, it's so small that I can't find it in my calculations.

I think from shattered units you should get a huge bonus as the game doesn't let me kill them to a man.  My take is they three down their guns and are running.  If I do that and win I should get at least 50% of their guns.

[The Soldier]

13 minutes ago, Bigjku said:

I think from shattered units you should get a huge bonus as the game doesn't let me kill them to a man.  My take is they three down their guns and are running.  If I do that and win I should get at least 50% of their guns.

There's already incentive enough to kill near-Shattered units because it removes that brigade from play.  It might be a small bonus, but that's incentive enough.  Furthermore, there's no way to translate such a mechanic (that by Shattering an enemy unit, you get more of their loot) to the player very well short of the game outright telling you in a tutorial or guide.

Not that I wouldn't mind getting such a bonus.

[Wright29]

17 hours ago, The Soldier said:

There's already incentive enough to kill near-Shattered units because it removes that brigade from play.  It might be a small bonus, but that's incentive enough.  Furthermore, there's no way to translate such a mechanic (that by Shattering an enemy unit, you get more of their loot) to the player very well short of the game outright telling you in a tutorial or guide.

Not that I wouldn't mind getting such a bonus.

Thing is I don't think shattered units count towards casualties. If a 2000 enemy unit loses 1500 men and then you shatter it, the remaining 500 will not count as casualties. On the unit tab, it'll still say 500 men remaining and will contribute 1500 toward the casualty tabulation. 

So when you shatter a unit, their loot disappears with them. Not only do you not get a bonus, but you get nothing at all. 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:15 AM, A. P. Hill said:

Yep, Springfield was definitely still in the arms industry during WW2.

Springfield Armory is where they built the US 1903 version of the Mauser Rifle. John Garand developed the M1 at Springfield Armory, it is an incredidibly rich history at that location. But, it closed in 1968.and is now a weapons museums. 

Springfield Armory was licensed to a guy in Illinois who builds specfic weapons systems like the 1903 and ubiquitous .45 cal 1911 hand gun according to the original blueprints and specs. And a lot of merchandising crap stamped 'Springfield Armory' probably made in China and sold through their company in Illinois and flaunted by people who think the Confederate Flag is something you stamp on a beach towel. Trump's America. 

[Bigjku]

3 hours ago, Wright29 said:

Thing is I don't think shattered units count towards casualties. If a 2000 enemy unit loses 1500 men and then you shatter it, the remaining 500 will not count as casualties. On the unit tab, it'll still say 500 men remaining and will contribute 1500 toward the casualty tabulation. 

So when you shatter a unit, their loot disappears with them. Not only do you not get a bonus, but you get nothing at all. 

That is what I was wondering.  That would clear up my question on why shattering a bunch of near dead units day 4 didn't seem to add much to my haul.

[Wright29]

10 minutes ago, Bigjku said:

That is what I was wondering.  That would clear up my question on why shattering a bunch of near dead units day 4 didn't seem to add much to my haul.

That makes sense now. Yes there's little point to doing the fourth day of gettysburg  in the campaign since you've gotten the majority of loot you're going to get. 

But in the historical battle it's super fun to crush the AoNV so that you see how foolish Meade was for not attacking. 

[formothertexas]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:51 PM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

You are already incentivized to wipe out a damaged enemy: looting the weapons they drop as they fall on the field. 

Just like you are incentivized to wipe out every non-OOB unit on the field. If you're not taking them back to Camp with you, if they don't die, those troopers will carry their weapons back wherever they came from. And when they are carrying Spencers, or their equivalent; really, you don't want those? I"ll take 'em. 

 

 

I get the logic here but from a realistic standpoint, a general wouldn't throw troops away just to get rifles for his own army(unless he is a major asshole).  It's not a conducive mechanic for RPing an honorable commander.  We have a war to win here, man.  I feel bad when I get my troops decimated.  

Edited May 29, 2017 by formothertexas

[Aetius]

10 hours ago, formothertexas said:

I get the logic here but from a realistic standpoint, a general wouldn't throw troops away just to get rifles for his own army(unless he is a major asshole).  It's not a conducive mechanic for RPing an honorable commander.  We have a war to win here, man.  I feel bad when I get my troops decimated.  

There's no room for honor on Legendary - only desperate survival.

[Col_Kelly]

1 hour ago, Aetius said:

There's no room for honor on Legendary - only desperate survival.

Btw don't you want to try a hard campaign ? There's only one on youtube so far and lots of players are gonna need a tutorial upon release.

[CaptainKanundrum]

3 hours ago, Col_Kelly said:

Btw don't you want to try a hard campaign ? There's only one on youtube so far and lots of players are gonna need a tutorial upon release.

One comment I have about this game related to this. The tutorial Confederate mission in the campaign is shockingly difficult for what could be the first battle ever played. I personally thought it was a fun challenge, but I could imagine a lot of people being turned off by it.

I also just thought it was weird that there were easier missions like Newport News after it. I would have suggested Newport news as the tutorial mission as it has many different types of terrain and units as well as being a defensive mission.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

17 hours ago, formothertexas said:

I get the logic here but from a realistic standpoint, a general wouldn't throw troops away just to get rifles for his own army(unless he is a major asshole).  It's not a conducive mechanic for RPing an honorable commander.  We have a war to win here, man.  I feel bad when I get my troops decimated.  

Yes. Agreed. I am only describing what is, not what should be. 

[Wandering1]

Another little side note for the shattered units and their guns: you technically cannot kill 'shattered' men anymore, so they get to run off scot free. They become untargetable when they're shattered, and thus, you cannot get anymore guns.

There is no reward for captures, or any additional rewards for shatters mostly because it would break the economy. It's ridiculously easy to get 6k captures at least on Fredericksburg as CSA; mostly a matter of boxing the enemy in and waiting for them to surrender from having nowhere to run. Which becomes easy when Telegraph Road expands, by virtue of the only retreat path to safety being the bridges through the town.

[Kloiste]

On Legendary, I'm not sure if the change to the battle of Laurel Hill is necessarily a good one. I understand that the rewards for the minor battles leading up to Cold Harbor for both sides were increased in order to give the players more incentive to play them as they were considered 'difficult' battles where the rewards weren't worth the amount of losses you would take playing them, which I guess is a welcome change. However, making Laurel Hill even more difficult when it was considered a pretty hard battle before already might be a bit too much.

Previously, you started with 3 artillery brigades and 5 brigades of 1700~ men each, now the infantry brigades have been reduced from 1700~ to only 700~ per unit. This reduces the amount of men you start out with from 9000 to only 3,500, which makes it near impossible to hold the objectives on Legendary as each Union brigade is 2950 men each. I had to replay the battle 13 times to finally beat it on this latest patch when previously I would have no problems at all with the battle. I'd probably consider this the hardest battle of the game on this patch.

[Karri]

The Union brigades were pretty much 2950 on easy as well...I just skipped the battle and took the victory on the first phase of first day of Cold Harbor.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Karri

[Albert Sidney Johnston]

23 hours ago, CaptainKanundrum said:

One comment I have about this game related to this. The tutorial Confederate mission in the campaign is shockingly difficult for what could be the first battle ever played. I personally thought it was a fun challenge, but I could imagine a lot of people being turned off by it.

I also just thought it was weird that there were easier missions like Newport News after it. I would have suggested Newport news as the tutorial mission as it has many different types of terrain and units as well as being a defensive mission.

I know, right?? My first Play-through on hard, I literally lost. I just kind of sat there stunned for a few moments, saying "did I seriously just get defeated on the tutorial mission...?"

[Col_Kelly]

With a name like yours a short military career is to be expected ;).

Joking ofc

[jamieva]

nevermind

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by jamieva

[vren55]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:04 AM, Albert Sidney Johnston said:

I know, right?? My first Play-through on hard, I literally lost. I just kind of sat there stunned for a few moments, saying "did I seriously just get defeated on the tutorial mission...?"

Same... I was like... dafuq just happened?

On 5/30/2017 at 10:36 AM, Col_Kelly said:

With a name like yours a short military career is to be expected ;).

 

I actually managed to preserve Johnston throughout my entire confederate campaign... Issue is I probably can't finish my confed campaign now. Washington too damn difficult

[Kloiste]

4 hours ago, vren55 said:

Same... I was like... dafuq just happened?

I actually managed to preserve Johnston throughout my entire confederate campaign... Issue is I probably can't finish my confed campaign now. Washington too damn difficult

I'm actually still stuck on Washington too, but I've only tried the battle twice since how long the damn battle is. Those forts can sure take a pounding, but I'll be replaying this battle tonight and see how it goes with a new strategy. Will see how it goes!

[USPostman]

Having an issue with the layers for cover in Richmond.  The towns/buildings etc. do not provide cover bonus'.  Seems like only the woods layer is correct.  

[Kloiste]

Comments on Washington on Legndary- It was a pretty...exhausting battle.

The first time I played it it took 4 hours (defeat), the second time 3 hours (defeat) and the third time took 5 whole hours before I actually beat it. Actually I'm pretty sure I would have lost if the timer ran for just ran on for a few minutes longer, as quite a lot of my brigades were at 300-700 men and would have shattered with a few more volleys.

Some silly stats - I brought 100k infantry 3k cavalry and 148 guns. They brought 355k infantry 17k cavalry and 1632 guns. They literally sat there and pounded the crap out of you even if you were in fortifications. Over a fourth of my guns simple dissolved and shattered permanently because I placed them in the gun fortifications or anywhere near the infantry fortifications. Note to self - never put your artillery anywhere remotely near your infantry again, because the splash damage from 500 guns concentrated an an infantry brigade will pretty much wipe out the guns stationed near it in less than an hour.

Some things really annoyed me about this battle was the angles of the cover in fortifications. There were several cases where right in front of me were flanking my units in cover, even though they were directly ahead of me. Something else the fact that I had no idea that units you deployed in the Northern part of the battlefield could not reinforce those in the South, if I ever decide to torture myself again I'll know better and deliberately not deploy any units in the deployment field and see if they show up in the southern part of the battlefield, or if its fixed..

The other thing is I am still not sure if the units you do not defeat from day 1 ever come back to attack on you on day 2, I'm leaning towards no...Which meant all the time I spent encircling and destroying over 100k men on day 1 might have been pointless, as they would never appear again anyways, I might as well have saved a couple thousand troops for the second day.

The other thing that kind of irked me about the CSA Legendary campaign was that you have a lack of manpower pretty much the entire game. And then bam the last phase of the campaign you get tens of thousands of free recruits from the minor battles. If I had known this I would not have been spending my reputation on manpower the first 90% of the game, as I ended up at Washington with only 100k cash and 35k manpower after those silly minor battles. I literally could not buy any more guns guns as the shop ran out of Springfield 1842, Rebored farmers, and 1855s/Pattern Enfields, and anything else was too expensive. Its probably best to trade for guns and cash instead of recruits then, and constantly buy more rifles and stock up as the shop resets each major battle. It felt really awkward reaching that phase after spending the entirety of the game playing a different style only to have the choices you made sort of invalidated from the rewards of the final phase of the campaign.

All in all, I think Washington is a really fitting end to the CSA campaign and I enjoyed the battle a lot. I have to revise my comment from earlier, Washington is probably the most brutal battle in the entire CSA campaign. I'll probably go ahead and bash my head against Richmond next to see how it goes for the Union side, hopefully it is as good as Washington was for CSA.

Other notes about the battle or game in general:

- On Washington, bring a lot more cavalry than 4 brigades and run amok amongst their massive artillery brigades which they leave unguarded...a lot.

- Need a lot more fodder units, apparently having 12 fodder brigades with 1842s and farmers is not enough

- Need more than 100k reserve cash to refill ammunition on Washington between days. 5 x 35k ammo wagons is expensive.

- I...don't remember if there were any skirmishers on Washington other than the first near Fort DeRussy, which are shattered easily...if there isn't, then actually having a huge stock of Whitworth (TS) and J.F. Brown (TS) and actually running a few skirmishers might actually be worth it as they would outrange any infantry on the field. I've actually avoided using skirmishers in the game altogether because of the scaling but this might be a thing for Washington.

- Apparently buying every single 10 Pdr Ord and 24 Hwtz isn't enough to have reserve guns on Washington due to the two minor battles being extremely heavy on artillery losses, might have to expand and actually use 12 Pdr Napoleons...

- Not sure if -15% weapon quality does anything at all for Washington as every single enemy unit had 1863, Spencers, or Spencer Carbines. Maybe they downgraded some Spencers to 1863s...

- Considering on building a pure artillery Corps commander just for Washington with +20% ammo and artillery spec just for Washington because you can deploy so many corps stacked on top of one another in Washington, although I'm still not sure if the +20% does anything at all, but the +5% accuracy and -5% reloading time would be nice for the guns.

- 20 pdr parrotts are still useless and I have to remember to actually save enough money to switch them out next time around. They are great to train artillery as they have a long range so your artillery can farm experience, but they are quite useless even at max experience. I tried running 2 3-star 20 pdr parrots with ammo, cover (not a big fan of shooting or gunnery training as they give firearms +10, and you can farm firearms easily on artillery to 100. I always run Tactical training giving +50% rotation speed +25% cover and 200% stealth are stats that cannot actually be acquired in battles based on my understanding but I might be wrong) and long range training and they still did absolutely nothing.

Screenshots below. Game is extremely fun, I've spent over 300 hours in this game according to Steam already, and will probably spend many more. It was nice to see my player progression grow as I started on B.G., then moved to M.G., then Legendary, and keep getting better at the game. I still need better map awareness though. Definitely recommending for people to buy the game if they haven't already - great value.