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Actually, there is another way, but it would require some work on the backend which I don't think is possible given current time constraints:

Have an econ perk called...  "Businessman" or something like that.  Let you drop them off in different ports, and from there, allow you to access that ports menu, harvest goods, and send off goods at X price/ton on next available AI trader.  Traders become more full, a new market emerges (hauling goods on AI traders), and capturing/sinking AI traders has a more meaningful impact, as they're only partially AI.

But that'd require a fair bit of coding, I suspect :X      --- Powderhorn

Thats actually pretty genius.  What it also does is get rid of the need for an "econ alt".  If you can set up "business agents" in your ports to manage resources, then the need for TP'ing your "character" for strictly clicking buttons goes away.  That being said, you still should have a very finite amount of labor hours and the goods produced/traded should still be subject to risk.  All in all, its merely similar to sending a post via packet ship informing your business agent what you would like done instead of sailing there yourself.

 

 

So, the exchange above got me thinking that this may be an idea to pursue.  I understand the Devs are probably super-busy with trying to get all their ideas put into the game and such.  However, does anyone think that having the ability to put "Business Agents" into your ports would make their lives easier, quality of life wise, while still preventing your "character" and ship from teleporting all over creation?   Obviously, you would only be able to perform business/econ transactions.  

It's basically production building/warehouse management via mail.  Moving your goods would still be subject to risk.

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Business agents sounds like a good idea. You don't have to sail to every production port in a basic cutter just to use your labour hours. If people should still have to haul everything themselves, just skip the part about AI traders moving stuff for you. The business agent would still be able to move put your extracted production in your warehouse for you until you go pick it up.

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12 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Dont like the part of sending stuff via AI traders. You have absolutely no influence whether the trader will reach its destination or get sunk on the way, that means losing stuff is very frustrating.

To be fair, in my mind I was still thinking that you would have to manually ship your resources.  This was just for saving the trips in between trade runs where you moved stuff out of your production buildings into your warehouse.

 

However, I suppose it could also be expanded to include "Shipping Contracts" for additional content.  I know there are times where I would gladly pay someone to move some goods for me.  

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4 minutes ago, Sir Joseph Blaine said:

However, I suppose it could also be expanded to include "Shipping Contracts" for additional content.  I know there are times where I would gladly pay someone to move some goods for me.  

A tavern would be cool where you can put up your notes against a fee, like those:

"Need a trader to ship 20.000 tons goods to La Mona"

"searching for people to do some chilled AI missions"

"LF players to gank the swedish traders around Hat Island"

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2 minutes ago, Sir Joseph Blaine said:

Even if they have to be split due to hold size?

Contract for 1000 units. Your cargo hold is 500. You make 2 trips.

Also, as a trader fulfilling a contract you can try to hit a profit in the market. Buy here, sell there.

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4 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Contract for 1000 units. Your cargo hold is 500. You make 2 trips.

Also, as a trader fulfilling a contract you can try to hit a profit in the market. Buy here, sell there.

How does risk management work?  Person who accepts the contract puts up an "insurance binder"?  Say you make two trips and lose the second load to pirates.  Consequences for each party are what?  This is assuming I want that player to bring goods from one of my warehouses to another one.  For my use in, say, shipbuilding....

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Contract says deliver 1000 units to a port where someone will buy them at the Contract established price. Can't get more simple than that.

Guess if you take up the contract you are expected to deliver within X days.

Insurance ?... that's a loophole in MMOs unless it is 100% insurance in advance.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

But what if there are no traders? I believe AI/NPC could fill the gap and can be adjusted up or down depending on player contracts languishing in markets. And I still like the idea of NPC smugglers still being a thing, moving goods between nations in ways players can't.

Of course. It comes down to the choice of the player. Will he save time and risk a AI voyage ? Will he do the voyage himself and ask a buddy to escort ? Will he place a contract and wait time ? Choices. Consequences. Reward. Risk.

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I like this, and even MORE like the idea of having the option to ship via AI trader. Allow players to intercept these, and you have worthwhile risk to the trader sending things to make up for not having to sail, and increase rewards for commerce raiders. 

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I like the idea. I think it is essential that crafters can more or less instantly access their crafting facilities, warehouses and the local shop and this may be the means if teleporting between outposts is curtailed.

I don't really like it costing perks. These are too finite. Increasing amounts of gold and a cap like outposts are now, perhaps.

I don't think I'd ever trust hauling to an AI, but each to their own.

I think there then needs to be some sort of teleport between outposts to access trader ships (warriors doubtless say much the same about warships), but this could probably be managed on a timer, which would be far too restrictive for accessing crafting facilities.

I don't see how it has any effect on eco alts. These are primarily to provide extra hours, building slots or building slots in foreign ports, none of which are changed (that I can see) by Business Agents.

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Perks as I see it is a way of deciding what "career" the player is more focused at a point. Maritime trader ? Navy corsair ? Smuggler privateer ?

While the choices can be limited at the moment a expansion of those ( and reviewed effects ) can make those choices have a lasting impression. While nothing is blocked and a player can still engage in all activities his focus, at any given moment, can be told by the perks he selects.

I don't see them as a way to "overpower" the player but rather a way to "define" the path the player wants to make... until he resets them that is.

So maybe, just maybe, similar to the Fleets, this is also a good subject to be perked.

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The ability to arrange shipments on AI traders would require a lot of extra coding (I think) but it should be relatively easy for them to allow harvesting, buying, selling, and crafting in national ports where the player has an outpost without the player actually having to sail or teleport there. Then remove all teleports. Player has to go there to move goods or ships in or out of port but otherwise, his agent can handle things.

Devs, this idea makes sense. Please.

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If the system can manage 1500 AI ships.

It could be done so that the system reserves X ships for these traders.  If there are none available, you can still make an order, but it informs that there are no traders in the port atm.  Then your transport order is just waiting its turn in the port.  When someones trade order has been completed, and AI ship is freed, your cargo will start to move.

Random AI traders, these could be removed or numbers could be decreased. Or work dynamically, if there is a high demand for AI transportation, remove "random" AI traders from the world.  etc.

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I would like to be able to hire a "Business Agent"  in any port where I have an outpost.   It would be great to be able to manage econ without having to travel to each port each time.  I wouldn't mind a response delay delay to simulate the time it would take for a letter to arrive.   It would be an option to tele-port to a port with out being able to sail while there.

I would like to keep deliveries between outposts but understand the logic to remove the option in hope to create more ships out on the sea.   It would okay to  send one of my ships via NPC control or contract an NPC ship to make the run.  Higher risk would be okay too.  

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/19/2017 at 7:25 AM, Jon Snow lets go said:

A tavern would be cool where you can put up your notes against a fee, like those:

"Need a trader to ship 20.000 tons goods to La Mona"

"searching for people to do some chilled AI missions"

"LF players to gank the swedish traders around Hat Island"

I built a bulletin board site that would serve as a tavern bulletin board and rumor mill. Players could post for free. It doesn't have critical mass but maybe someday...

Scuttlebutt from the Harbor Master

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On 4/19/2017 at 7:02 AM, The Red Duke said:

You save time but you risk loss.

Pretty balanced outcome.

And, in fairness, in a post-teleport world, you risk loss even if you sail it yourself - which is good, too!

I have been advocating for some form of hiring NPC ships to deliver player-owned trade goods through the open world for a long time. Mainly as a way of mollifying those who lament the loss of teleports, while also still keeping the cargoes themselves in the OW and subject to risk. Because otherwise, we have a completely contrived player-driven economy, one where risk is minimal... leading to hyper inflation.

TLDR: We have to take the leap if we really want this system to work, I think NPC cargo fleets would be a good solution to the "trade runs are boring" complaint, much better than teleports, which break the system.

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