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Forthcoming changes in the next testbed patch

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I was looking to some real life career progressions and funny enough new commissions to newly laid keels was given to officers that have proven themselves in previous ships.

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30 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

I was looking to some real life career progressions and funny enough new commissions to newly laid keels was given to officers that have proven themselves in previous ships.

Yes, but without seeing the full tree, it looks like to unlock the final slot on any ship you will have to have mastered (mastered, not merely sailed) every single combat ship in the game below it, probably right back to a cutter.

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Will look into that when I have more time, kind of limited in NA time at the moment, a couple sessions per week, but I am not alarmed if that is indeed the case. If the idea is to add a career simulation ( with 3x pvp should be pretty straight forward progression ) it can be fine tuned for sure.

As a prototype, the idea doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

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7 minutes ago, Remus said:

Yes, but without seeing the full tree, it looks like to unlock the final slot on any ship you will have to have mastered (mastered, not merely sailed) every single combat ship in the game below it, probably right back to a cutter.

Not the final slot. Anything past the 2nd.

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28 minutes ago, Remus said:

Yes, but without seeing the full tree, it looks like to unlock the final slot on any ship you will have to have mastered (mastered, not merely sailed) every single combat ship in the game below it, probably right back to a cutter.

Yah this exactly what I don't think folks are getting. Has any one maxed out the basic cutter, does it send you to max out another ship.  Why are we having to max out other ships to specialize in one ship?   I can see maybe doing this for the 5th slot that you have to get 3 slots in another like ship, but not as early as the 3/4th slot.  Maybe make the 5th slot unlocked once you get one slot on all other ships of that class.  So you want 5th slot on the Connie you need one slot on teh Ingerland and Aggy too.  Wappen could be counted but I think that is to much going to be a rare gift ship so any rare ships should not be counted in the equation.

 

55 minutes ago, Wraith said:

But what this equates to is very small edges that likely won't mean that much, and if you manage to cap one of these ultra specialists you get all of the benefits of said ship right? That will make these ultra ranked ships rare and valuable.

I don't thin your getting it.  You basicly have to unlock slots in every ships just to get your 3rd slots.  I haven't even gotten that far as i bene setting up econ stuff to get ready for the next update with the crafting stuff, but if we have to unlock 3 slots on every freaking ship to master one than screw that crap.  I play a lot and even I won't go back into some ships just to master one and I still use many ships that many won't touch any more just for fun.

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49 minutes ago, Wraith said:

No, I'm getting it. But I'm just not convinced that we all need to be sailing full, 5 slot unlocked ships all the time, let alone 3 slot unlocked ships.  I'm reserving the right to change my mind, of course, but for now I think it makes sense to level the playing field somewhat between vets and new players with regards to the ships they're sailing. By restricting the number of slots you're actually increasing the value of the mods you choose. And it greatly increases the range of value placed across capping ships of varying qualities.

It also encourages people to get back into other, lower class ships, after they rank up quickly to increase their crew. There's now motivation for the completionists to go back and sail those 7th and 6th rates again, and for those of us that like spending time in a ship of a certain class then we'll do what it takes to make that class work.  I for one greatly appreciate that there will likely be something to work towards, even after achieving max rank.

Hmm.

Explained :)

 

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

No, I'm getting it. But I'm just not convinced that we all need to be sailing full, 5 slot unlocked ships all the time, let alone 3 slot unlocked ships.  I'm reserving the right to change my mind, of course, but for now I think it makes sense to level the playing field somewhat between vets and new players with regards to the ships they're sailing. By restricting the number of slots you're actually increasing the value of the mods you choose. And it greatly increases the range of value placed across capping ships of varying qualities.

It also encourages people to get back into other, lower class ships, after they rank up quickly to increase their crew. There's now motivation for the completionists to go back and sail those 7th and 6th rates again, and for those of us that like spending time in a ship of a certain class then we'll do what it takes to make that class work.  I for one greatly appreciate that there will likely be something to work towards, even after achieving max rank.

Again why should they be on the same playing field as some one that has been more active and playing the game more.   I'm sorry I don 't do no rules games and every one gets a trophy.   If they wan't to be on the same playing field they need to do the same PvE/PvP grind as any one else.  My reward for being a more active player is having more skill options for my ships.   Any other MM you see out there the guy that grinds out the best items and gear is prob all ways beat the noob/casual player that doesn't.   So why should they have an equal playing field?  It all ready takes a lot of xp each step to game mastery in a ship so it's not like the vets can do it over night.  

Again that is why I said one level in like ships to get folks back into those other ships to gain Mastery (level 5).  We are limited to 5-20 dock space.  I don't have enough dock space to master every dang ship to level 3-4 so I can master one ship.  Your still not getting this.  If I want to master the Connie I have to get several other ships, prob every ship that is below it down to level 3, cause you can't get them there until you do so with another ship. Well what is that first ship the Basic cutter?  So really we aren't being a master of one, we are being a jack of all trades.

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28 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm not saying I think everyone should be on an equal playing field, just more equal.  We shouldn't be going from one extreme of have/have-nots (gold marines, gold powder, etc.) to another (no-lifers with 5 slots, everyone else with 2). And I think you're being a bit hyperbolic here, I mean, once you've unlocked one ship class, and you don't want to sail it any further then you sell it, freeing up your dock for you next set of ships you're trying to max rank.

I just don't see the issue in slowing down the hypermaxed ship creep, as long as the functional ship progression is manageable for the new player? If we have no variability in the quality of ships we see/cap/fight on the open world then we should all just be playing the arena game... 

All that said, until we actually have full servers, with a moderate amount of PvP occurring and a mix of player ranks all competing at the same time, it's hard to say whether the system will be outrageously grindy or hit the progression sweet spot.  You might be right, and we should reserve just the last rank for such ladder progression, but I think it requires some testing.

Actually the current system does the oppisite than you are thinking.  If I have to get the rank three unlock on the ship before the one I want unlocked Say the Connie.That can be up to 20 ships I have to unlock to rank 3 cause you have to unlock the one before it to get it to rank three.   How it that going to help the little casual player?  Instead of you let some one rank up in one ship only with out major restrictions it helps the casual player cause now he doesn't have to unlock 20 something ships half way (I bet it's less than that but I'm throwing numbers out here and even 10 is to many).  So the only folks that will be able to master ships will NO-LIFERS as you like to call them who will have time to unlock all the ships.  While you casual player wil never get more than two slots unlocked on any ships.  And remember NO-LIFERS like myself can unlock all the stats, set them and than sale the ship to some one that is a casual player so they don't have to take the time to grind out all those levels (I have all ready gave my alt a 2 state unlocked Surprise to use).  What we are saying is they should make it easier for the casual players to master one ship and only that one ships so they don't have to go through every ship. 

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Each player has its own rhythm. Can't assume how and when and why.

Mechanic has strong pros and strong cons.

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5v1, one gets the kill, the other 4 will receive xp according to their participation and in relation to the target ship.

Meaning a Snow will yield the same in a 1v1 or a 5v1.

If I-m not mistaken, but you can test it.

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Both. Maybe reset characters in testbed and do not redeem any XP to test ?!

Hard to spot when running Rear Admiral :)

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You get the ship, if you have a fleet perk, and the cargo/repairs, etc.

So the decision falls into you, either you destroy or you capture, each with its own reward.

Ran a few tests and both are equivalent. Cargo captured gives more income. Sinking gives slightly less, depending on BR divider, but yields the XP.

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See where you're coming from Wraith but I think Texas is probably right on this. Those who can sink huge amounts of hours into the game will have all their unlocks, it's the casuals who will always be in sub-par ships.

One way around this could be to allow people to declare a 'primary' ship. They would be able to unlock all 5 slots on this ship without any prerequisites. All other ships they would need to unlock as normal. Perhaps the primary choice could be changed for a hefty donation in marks or something.

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Not always.

Nelson, wasnt the first commander of the HMS Victory, but he was given command of it.  And the Agamemnon was definitely not new when he took command.   He is a GREAT example of a proven commander who wasnt given the newest vessel.  

Calico Jack Rackham commanded a brig his whole career.   

Some captains were definitely better at smaller vessels than larger ones. 

I dont like having to sail around in 4 different ships to unlock fully my Essex or a Navy Brig.

Really do not understand the point you are trying to make care to elaborate?

 

Nelson is hardly an example to use to make any point, he was an exception in almost every way, I believe he refused promotion to stay in eggs n bacon and when he was stationed in Victory it was simply because of his rank it had a 'Captain' he was an Admiral. Apologies if I am wrong feeling I am bit full of myself just read 'Empire of the Deep' and one of the many bio's of Nelson.

 

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4 minutes ago, Hodo said:

He was never given the newest ship.  That is the point.  He was probably England's greatest admiral and naval tactician during that time.  He was assigned to ships as needed and available.

 

That's the point. Not as he wanted, but as was needed. And was assigned due to performance.

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On 4/18/2017 at 7:19 AM, The Red Duke said:

Will look into that when I have more time, kind of limited in NA time at the moment, a couple sessions per week, but I am not alarmed if that is indeed the case. If the idea is to add a career simulation ( with 3x pvp should be pretty straight forward progression ) it can be fine tuned for sure.

As a prototype, the idea doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

The problem is that it's only the 3rd slot to unlock and you have to pretty much go back to the cutter or lynx to unlock all the 3rd slots up to that ship to unlock the one you want to master. I though we wheren't going to do Careers in this game cause it's a sand box.  Seems like that is exactly what we are going towards.  Cause with the perks reset now I'm going to have to have one char that is only econ/trader (ship builder) and another for combat and than my third will prob just be a floater.  A game should not push folks to use alts.   Now back to the topic of the ships.   We are only talking about the 3rd slot for the ship.  What do we need to do to unlock the 4th one?  GO back and unlock the 4th slot on the 20 other ships (say it's a connie and you have to unlock every ship below it or even half for 10).  Than what about the 5th slot?  Do we have to unlock the 5th slot of all the other ships so basicly to master one we have to master them all?  

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

Not always.

Nelson, wasnt the first commander of the HMS Victory, but he was given command of it.  And the Agamemnon was definitely not new when he took command.   He is a GREAT example of a proven commander who wasnt given the newest vessel.  

Calico Jack Rackham commanded a brig his whole career.   

Some captains were definitely better at smaller vessels than larger ones. 

I dont like having to sail around in 4 different ships to unlock fully my Essex or a Navy Brig.

And some captians do great in small ships and terrible in big ones.  The other way around for many others.  I just don't understand why I have to learn every ship up to mid expierence level to continue on with Mastering one?  I can see maybe getting one slot in all other 4th rates for me to move up in the Connie.  Than make it two slots for all 4th rates for the 4th slots and maybe 3 slots to get the final Master level on the connie.  That would make more since than having to get three slots on 10-20 ships below mine and even worse some of those ships we currently can't craft.  The Connie needs three slots on the Enymion if I'm, correct?  You might not find a three slot grey AI ship out there to get even that far but you can't unlock it without I think unlocking the Trinc.

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The ship knowledge ladder is a very interesting concept.  At first I was somewhat shocked as most are. But the more I think about it the more I may be seeing the potential. It's certainly a system with wide ranging pros and cons.

Does anyone know if the knowledge trees are all the same or different?

example:

to unlock slot 3 in any 4th Rate requires = 4 in Endyiomen + 4 in Mercury + 4 in Lynx 

or is it specific of ship like:

3 Connie = 4 Endy+ 4Mercury +4LynX

3 Ingermanland = 4 Indefatigable+4 NavyBrig + 4Cutter

if it's specific to ship this could open up a whole diverse sea of ships typically seen.  It might be nice to sail a 2 slot Aggy when they become available to me but if I already have learned a 4 slot Ingermanland I might not change.

Edited by Bach
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35 minutes ago, Bach said:

The ship knowledge ladder is a very interesting concept.  At first I was somewhat shocked as most are. But the more I think about it the more I may be seeing the potential. It's certainly a system with wide ranging pros and cons.

Does anyone know if the knowledge trees are all the same or different?

example:

to unlock slot 3 in any 4th Rate requires = 4 in Endyiomen + 4 in Mercury + 4 in Lynx 

or is it specific of ship like:

3 Connie = 4 Endy+ 4Mercury +4LynX

3 Ingermanland = 4 Indefatigable+4 NavyBrig + 4Cutter

if it's specific to ship this could open up a whole diverse sea of ships typically seen.  It might be nice to sail a 2 slot Aggy when they become available to me but if I already have learned a 4 slot Ingermanland I might not change.

I think that is one thing a lot of us want to know.  WHAT IS THE TREE's for each ship.  IF I just have to sail a lync, Merc and Endy than I will start on the Lynx right now, but the problem is no one knows until you do the tier below, than get it to the rank, than you have to do the tier below and than the next one....and by they looks it's more than just 2-3 ships it's half the ships below.  What does a light frigate have anything to do with my experience in a heavy frigate.  Why am I having to get half skilled at a light ships to be master in a Heavy frigate, this is what I"m not getting.  It should be more same class ships not a tree like say..>WORLD OF TANKS<  Cause right now that is how I'm kinda feeling this is going and they say they don't want that type of arena style game?  I also though we weren't going to have classes and it seems that we are slowly going that way too.  Crafting should be a sperate officer perk tree so you can set yourself up for crafting while in port and fighting while out of ports.  Not having to blow a bunch of PvE marks every time you wnat to craft a ship or go back to fighting.

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On 4/6/2017 at 8:03 AM, jodgi said:

If this particular XP grind includes PVE activities we can almost be sure of what will happen: People will føkk off to some OW corner and grind out the XP for their fav. ship(s) and wait with PVP until they're fully "PVP ready". It may not be a problem for most of you but I find it sub-optimal.

Then hunt the little twerps down and give them a little PvP as spice... (He, he, he.) There should be very little bot activity away from the population centers so they need to be near those to get the points they need..

I just think some of the "skills" should actually BE upgrades. Magazine access, for example, is about cutting wider hatchways and clearing -- possibly widening -- the companionways. It has nothing to do with experience. Powder Monkey on the other hand is learning (xp) to take the time to see that the boy gets trained in the details of the job. So there are things I think need to be upgrades you can build in or add on later. Adding on should take the ship out of service for a time.

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Will the ships that are unlocked to 5 slots get the increased benefit to their trim too? Like a current Gold ship gets 10% for Build strength where grey get 1%.

Edited by Elbizor

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Why would you need to unlock anything other than the ship you sail.?? (Time sink horror, more grind....)

If I throw darts every day for a year, I will never get any better at throwing a spear.

There is enough grind in the game.

 

Edited by Honourable Bluetooth
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7 minutes ago, Honourable Bluetooth said:

Why would you need to unlock anything other than the ship you sail.?? (Time sink horror, more grind....)

If I throw darts every day for a year, I will never get any better at throwing a spear.

There is enough grind in the game.

 

I agree, I am of the opinion that just because it's historical doesn't mean it should be in the game because a lot that is historically accurate doesn't make good gameplay. We have to remember that this is a game first, and a game is supposed to be enjoyable. Unless we have forgotten that?

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When i was a noob, i sailed the basic cutter untl i was able to fully crew that niagara redemable.

I think, locking new (or old restarting) players into a progression scheme takes away too much freedom of play.

I do dislike the announced progression plans very much. 

Please, dear delevoper, make it at least per class, that would be bearable.

What makes players stay with the game will never be the grind. Too much grind will just lock out too many average players.

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