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Forthcoming changes in the next testbed patch

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9 hours ago, Aventador said:

@admin Will you at least keep the teleport to capital? (please say yes)

Yah until release and even after than I think this one option should stay.  While I didn't use it early one for bugs and such, but there was so many times I got lost as a new player I just had no clue where I was.   We didn't have the map cords back than so now it's a bit more easy for folks to figure out where they are, but I can still seeing this being a big problem for new players getting lost and just wanting to return home to there capital.

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry to step in Aventador. But as a player tester I know the teleport was introduced to free players from being stuck in the world due to bugs and without having to wait for support. Eventually turned to become a comfort rather than a permanent technical necessity. Personally I think it is still useful but, as per rulebook of late, no cargo in the hold and no fleet attached if wanting to teleport.

I don't see any reason not to dismiss it unless all sticky spots where we can get stuck have been eliminated. ( most have )

And yes there are still spots.  I was coming back from Bermuda with a load of cedar some one gave me. Was going to hit Little river and send it to the port I need it at.   Well I went west from Bermuda.  Went to do somethings and well kinda forgot about atl tabing and noticed i was in land.....I mean deep in land.  I some how was on the very north part of the map and you can get behind the coast up there and get stuck.  While I could dump my cargo and use return to capital as a final option to get unstuck, but I was stuborn.  An hour and half later I was able to get back out by going back around the north top map and back out.   Yah moral of story is don't AFK sale and forget where you are going when your that close to the map edge.  Just the other day I did it way down Southeast corner too, but that was only like a 10 min detour from goign to south.  So I think the return to capital should stay and keep it the same, no cargo in your hold as a safe way to return home if you get stuck or lost.  Hell even if you want to give it a longer cool down that would work.

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18 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Yah until release and even after than I think this one option should stay.  While I didn't use it early one for bugs and such, but there was so many times I got lost as a new player I just had no clue where I was.   We didn't have the map cords back than so now it's a bit more easy for folks to figure out where they are, but I can still seeing this being a big problem for new players getting lost and just wanting to return home to there capital.

And yes there are still spots.  I was coming back from Bermuda with a load of cedar some one gave me. Was going to hit Little river and send it to the port I need it at.   Well I went west from Bermuda.  Went to do somethings and well kinda forgot about atl tabing and noticed i was in land.....I mean deep in land.  I some how was on the very north part of the map and you can get behind the coast up there and get stuck.  While I could dump my cargo and use return to capital as a final option to get unstuck, but I was stuborn.  An hour and half later I was able to get back out by going back around the north top map and back out.   Yah moral of story is don't AFK sale and forget where you are going when your that close to the map edge.  Just the other day I did it way down Southeast corner too, but that was only like a 10 min detour from goign to south.  So I think the return to capital should stay and keep it the same, no cargo in your hold as a safe way to return home if you get stuck or lost.  Hell even if you want to give it a longer cool down that would work.

If you enter battle next to shallows with a few people in deep water ships you will occasionally get stuck in the shallows when you leave too.. just some bugs that are annoying

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Its going to take some time to get stuff organised after wipe thats for sure.

Aside from the fact there'll be numerous hours of AFK sailing involved, I kinda start to like the idea of having a very hirstoricaly correct situation where fleets move slow and can't be all over the place at once. There'll be new frontlines and campaigns going. And much of it will be the same as at the beginning of EA.

However I feel this will only realy be fun if we have a good amount of players to actualy make this fun.

When can we have the testbed patch? :)

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In regards to the Arena game - Please direct questions or concerns about it here so that we can focus this thread purely on feedback on the patch notes.

There is a bit of overlap in some posts, where they address both the Arena and the patch.  For those, I am going to split them to the Arena thread, and if you need to, repost just the patch feedback here.

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3 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

In regards to the Arena game - Please direct questions or concerns about it here so that we can focus this thread purely on feedback on the patch notes.

This topic will change much if the patch already was applied. Currently we haven't had maintenance for three days. I have 6 ships in transit to Mortimmer, and we are falling asleep on the testbed.

People are coming on the testbed and are moving away again. It is stale. My previous post that there were 3 people on the testbed is removed. I promise with all this racket, people will populate the testbed fast, but currently there is nothing to do.  Please hurry up!

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6 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry to step in Aventador. But as a player tester I know the teleport was introduced to free players from being stuck in the world due to bugs and without having to wait for support. Eventually turned to become a comfort rather than a permanent technical necessity. Personally I think it is still useful but, as per rulebook of late, no cargo in the hold and no fleet attached if wanting to teleport.

I don't see any reason not to dismiss it unless all sticky spots where we can get stuck have been eliminated. ( most have )

Now regarding a lot of the things that we did playtest and do not work in the last 8 months, mechanics and so forth - our memory is really short. We did push for those changes, we the playerbase. And the developers put it all the effort for them to be in the game. From their data they see it is not working as they intend - they being the developers with their vision of the game. We managed to corrupt a lot of mechanics with unintended misusage and loopholing and transformed the OW into something we wanted to shape into and not what was intended. So good ideas, good development, trial and error testing opened way for odd ends to be explored by us. It is good alpha testing. We did show that despite the ideas looking great on paper when we throw in the multiplayer element they don't work.

The truth is, for me, with the mindset and playstyle of exploring, sailing, expecting the unexpected encounter in the high seas, planning my sailing and raids, the game will not feel any different. I simply have to go back in time to the no teleport time and have a couple more days of planning outpost and sail there; absolutely nothing else changes, so game still remains grand.

Many of the mechanics we see removed were totally subversed by the players themselves to create a lot of discomfort to opponents and loopholes to create comfort for themselves, hence those same mechanics serve no purpose anymore...

Isn't hard to understand if, as Jeheil well puts, we step outside our own bubble and look to the whole picture.

-

Regarding Global Chat - "By God Sir, this is the Navy. Not some tavern brawl ! You shall act according to your station and grant your defeated enemy no reason to feel ashamed."

I would keep it as it is essential for the social part and I believe the community can present itself with good examples. Roll back trade with foreign power to the Free Ports ( as it was 1 year ago ) and that's it.

 

I don't think you can. It's essentially our "I'm stuck" button that accounts for player errors as well as bugs.  Just last week I had to use it when my ship somehow got hung up on a piece of land coming out of a battle instance.  Once and I guess I'll admit this, I was leaving France to the west to Aves. I went away from the computer and got side tracked in a pet emergency. Forgot all about NA and came home to find my ship nose in on the beach at Panama.  I was thankful for the T-Port to capital button that day. ?

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7 minutes ago, Bach said:

I don't think you can. It's essentially our "I'm stuck" button that accounts for player errors as well as bugs.

Yeah it would be nice to come up with a way to fix stuck ships that doesn't involve free teleports and is not somehow prone to abuse.

I guess ideally Admin goes in and traces a line all around the coastline (every coastline!) that's just a bit offshore. When you get stuck, it will only move you to the nearest point on that line. Maybe there's some way he can figure out how to do that programmatically, I dunno.

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things to focus :

1)pz'don't remove tp'to capital before 

- a strong tutorial explaining how works the map

- adding a solution for the ones who spawn in rookie area to tp to the main capital

2) put all the marks in the upgrade slots.

then people will be able to get them every time.

as mark are showing your courage it.s not good to make them something you could loose. The better things should be an admiralty building listing them as they represent your victory. They ar snot really "materials " stuff that could be lost.

so I recommend you to place them in upgrade capitain slot

=> no weird développement to make delivers just for that

=> no problem to have 5 marks per outpost useless when you should have enough to buy you a ship.

 

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1 hour ago, Slamz said:

Yeah it would be nice to come up with a way to fix stuck ships that doesn't involve free teleports and is not somehow prone to abuse.

I guess ideally Admin goes in and traces a line all around the coastline (every coastline!) that's just a bit offshore. When you get stuck, it will only move you to the nearest point on that line. Maybe there's some way he can figure out how to do that programmatically, I dunno.

What might work better is the new, to me, exit battle instance to friendly port option. If the "I'm stuck" button simply did the same thing it could be less abuseable than the teleport to capital while still un sticking people.

Edited by Bach
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remove teleport is the worst what you can do it will destroy the game even more

people will stay in capital waters cus they dont want to sail every day for 1 battle

you wont see US in dutch waters you wont see spanish in French waters

 

but devs please GIVE WHAT THE PLAYERS WANT NOT WHAT YOU WANT otherwise players quit

Edited by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Unnecessary image removed. Discussion of moderation removed. Keep it on topic sir.
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15 minutes ago, NielsVisser said:

but devs please GIVE WHAT THE PLAYERS WANT NOT WHAT YOU WANT otherwise players quit

That is the exact thing they did last year. How many have left because of our suggestions?

The only thing we could blame them for is listening to us. But i wouldnt do that. I am glad they did it.

Edited by z4ys
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I thought I had this all understood, but now I feel hopelessly confused. There are several different teleports in the game, with different things happening to each. Here are the ones I can think of:

  1. Teleport to capital. Free. 2 minute delay(?). 3 hour timer. Ship with guns and upgrades but nothing in the hold apart from fish you caught after hitting the button.
    As I understand, this one stays till the devs figure out a way of coping with all eventualities of being stuck, but it is expected to be removed at some point.
  2. Teleport between outposts. Free. Instant. No timer. No ship, no cargo, but you carry upgrades and marks with you. Needs a slot to leave your ship (if you are in one) at your starting outpost. I think this one stays, but I am really not sure.
  3. Teleport between freeports. Goods only, 1000 weight and 4 slots max per transfer. Costs gold. Takes hours. Max limit of concurrent transfers. This one is disappearing
  4. Teleport out of battle. Ship, fleet and all cargo to unspecified nearest friendly port. Free. Instant. I think this one stays.
  5. Teleport another ship out of battle to chosen outpost. Free. Instant. No cargo. This one disappears.
  6. Ship tow between outposts. Ship with upgrades and guns only. Costs gold. Implemented daily. Max number of concurrent tows. This one is disappearing.
  7. Ship duel teleport. I've no idea how this works as I've never used it, but since ship duels are going this will disappear too.

Have I got these right? Are there any I've missed?

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1 hour ago, Remus said:

I thought I had this all understood, but now I feel hopelessly confused. There are several different teleports in the game, with different things happening to each. Here are the ones I can think of:

  1. Teleport to capital. Free. 2 minute delay(?). 3 hour timer. Ship with guns and upgrades but nothing in the hold apart from fish you caught after hitting the button.
    As I understand, this one stays till the devs figure out a way of coping with all eventualities of being stuck, but it is expected to be removed at some point.
  2. Teleport between outposts. Free. Instant. No timer. No ship, no cargo, but you carry upgrades and marks with you. Needs a slot to leave your ship (if you are in one) at your starting outpost. I think this one stays, but I am really not sure.
  3. Teleport between freeports. Goods only, 1000 weight and 4 slots max per transfer. Costs gold. Takes hours. Max limit of concurrent transfers. This one is disappearing
  4. Teleport out of battle. Ship, fleet and all cargo to unspecified nearest friendly port. Free. Instant. I think this one stays.
  5. Teleport another ship out of battle to chosen outpost. Free. Instant. No cargo. This one disappears.
  6. Ship tow between outposts. Ship with upgrades and guns only. Costs gold. Implemented daily. Max number of concurrent tows. This one is disappearing.
  7. Ship duel teleport. I've no idea how this works as I've never used it, but since ship duels are going this will disappear too.

Have I got these right? Are there any I've missed?

I have the same understanding as you do.  Whereas #1 was a much needed function over a year ago, I think that the teleport back to capital is now largely superfluous.  I can't recall the last time I got stuck or ended up on the other side of the map from a bad re-spawn.  There had even been suggestions that folks should be able to set their own capital, and have the "teleport to capital" re-mapped accordingly.

Edited by Taranis
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7 hours ago, admin said:

Don't waste our time by unnecessary sarcasm, veiled trolling and pizza crap. We value your contribution but everything comes to the end, We found that giving someone like you (a good person) a minor break usually leads the whole thread trashed by trolls posting dying animals and pizza photos. If you are a constructive person (as you say) you should have told them that that is nor place nor time to post crap in the topic, but you did not. Thus raising doubts about your intentions..If it happens again you will get banned.


We recommend players trying to push off topic or sarcasm into development discussions to avoid that at all costs. Feel free to express yourself in the tavern. Development topics are moderated areas where we come to get information. 

Now lets get back to patch discussion.

 

7 hours ago, admin said:

Your question was about team size and recruitment. hiring decisions and team size are completely irrelevant to the forthcoming testbed patch information. Lets slowly help you to post relevant questions or comments in the relevant topics. Start a new topic in the general discussions or in the QA section. For this thread - your question was completely off topic and irrelevant. Its impossible to gather feedback on patches when players like you past whatever they want wherever they want. Making our job harder.

Do it one more time and we will think that you want to clutter this thread on purpose. 

Please stop the sarcasm and aggressive attitude. You accuse players of doing this but then do it yourself.

I understand that English is not your native language, so maybe you just don't understand how aggressive and sarcastic and rude you sound but trust me....that is how you are coming across to native English speakers.

Thanks

 

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1 minute ago, NavalActionPlayer said:

 

Please stop the sarcasm and aggressive attitude. You accuse players of doing this but then do it yourself.

I understand that English is not your native language, so maybe you just don't understand how aggressive and sarcastic and rude you sound but trust me....that is how you are coming across to native English speakers.

Thanks

 

Good. You got it of your chest. Post will stay in place. Now do not return to that subject in this thread.

Carry on gentlemen, sorry for the interruption.

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3 hours ago, Bach said:

What might work better is the new, to me, exit battle instance to friendly port option. If the "I'm stuck" button simply did the same thing it could be less abuseable than the teleport to capital while still un sticking people.

Although of course we know this is abuseable too. There are places in the game where the quickest way from A to B is to sail 51% of the way to B and then get into a battle and teleport to a friendly port, which is incidentally on the other side of Cuba and you just saved yourself a ton of OW sailing by not having to go around Cuba.

Really I think all forms of teleportation should go away but we do have to have some sort of plan for the possibility of stuck ships.

 

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When removing teleport to capital what happens in case someone build a deep water ship in a shallow port? 

Will deep water ships building restricted to deep water ports only?

Edited by z4ys
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The worst part of the game is how battles are started and how people enter them. The border between OW and Battle Instance. 

The details of crafting, economy, captain skills, battle itself can be spun in almost any direction with little real change in the outcome I would think.

People do  not trust the way that battles start. I can not imagine how to fix that without re architecture the game to have sub servers that can handle the ships that are on that server and economy changes so that only historical sized fleets will ever be seen on each instance.  So that you are always in open world or something even for fights.

That being said, I like the concept of grinding up your proficiency with a ship type so that when ever you replace it you get that upgraded type of result with the ship. 

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45 minutes ago, z4ys said:

When removing teleport to capital what happens in case someone build a deep water ship in a shallow port? 

Will deep water ships building restricted to deep water ports only?

Well, you could always return to port and put it in the shop for some unsuspecting buyer :D

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I do think that now that we have a clearer vision for the game, in terms of OW focus, we should revisit the ROE (picking up on Jeheil's earlier comments).  The timer limited battle instance entries seemed to be the result of wanting tom combat certain player conveniences: (1) being able to zip around via teleport, (2) players hiding in nearby ports, (3) cutter into a port (to then sneak tow SOLs into position),...  As some of these conveniences are being revisited - i encourage us to revisit the ROE.  How about increasing time entry windows a bit? 

Also, as an aside, why not have an OW indicator of players that may be in a port?  As a result, if one is sailing around in a Trinc, coming across a lone Cerberus, near a port that has a indicator of 20 next to the name (indicating 20 players are in said nearby port) - perhaps they might want to think twice about jumping that Cerberus...

Edited by Taranis
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Long join timer just lead to that people stay in port and wait for action popping up right in front of their nose. 

When we look at the upcoming changes that should bring people to the open world why we need a tool (long timers) to be lazy again?

And in my opinion in a crowded open world you will be thankful when you fight what you saw. At least I would.

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Last week I was playing Sweden. I exited Gustavia but when I appeared in the OW I was next to Key West.  I put in a bug report and hit the teleport to capital.  Without the Tel to Cap that was a 3 hour sail back to my play area.

Now in the upcoming patch if Tel to Cap were removed how would we get out of that? I could just sink the ship off Key West. Ships won't be worth that much when they don't have mods on them. But I'm not sure if that would make me appear in one of my out posts or just the closest Nuetral port still stuck across the map. But then if I had a free outpost slot I could just create an outpost at the Neutral and move myself back just losing the ship.  Of course if that ship had been a first rate instead of a Brig it would be a different story.  I'm certainly not opposed to removing the Tel to Cap but those game bugs are definetly still there now and after a big patch probably then too for awhile.

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1 minute ago, Bach said:

Last week I was playing Sweden. I exited Gustavia but when I appeared in the OW I was next to Key West.  I put in a bug report and hit the teleport to capital.  Without the Tel to Cap that was a 3 hour sail back to my play area.

Now in the upcoming patch if Tel to Cap were removed how would we get out of that? I could just sink the ship off Key West. Ships won't be worth that much when they don't have mods on them. But I'm not sure if that would make me appear in one of my out posts or just the closest Nuetral port still stuck across the map. But then if I had a free outpost slot I could just create an outpost at the Neutral and move myself back just losing the ship.  Of course if that ship had been a first rate instead of a Brig it would be a different story.  I'm certainly not opposed to removing the Tel to Cap but those game bugs are definetly still there now and after a big patch probably then too for awhile.

I think teleport to capital is staying

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45 minutes ago, Bach said:

Last week I was playing Sweden. I exited Gustavia but when I appeared in the OW I was next to Key West.  I put in a bug report and hit the teleport to capital.  Without the Tel to Cap that was a 3 hour sail back to my play area.

Now in the upcoming patch if Tel to Cap were removed how would we get out of that?

The thing is, unless you are based in your capital you'd be screwed anyway. Let's say I'm French, operating out of their Louisiana holdings. I exit a port and end up off the coast of South America due to a bug. Well, it's a long sail back to Louisiana, I guess! "Teleport to Capital" putting me in the Antilles is doing me no favors.

And really I think this should be the norm: players operating out of remote areas and generally leaving the capital behind. There's nothing special about the capital. Sweden is kind of an exception because they don't have anything else but for most other nations the capital is nothing but a starting point you might never see again after day 1.

Basically I don't think it's worth keeping it the way it is to support a use case that I suspect will rarely be of use to anyone but opens up a lot of avenues for abuse.

Also, leaving it the way it is encourages people to stick close to home just for that convenient teleport, even though relocating elsewhere might be a lot better for them overall.

 

Needing to make sure we can't craft deep water ships in shallow water ports is a valid concern though -- or maybe allow it but warn the user (maybe they are just doing it for crafting XP and planned to scrap it, in which case sure).

Edited by Slamz

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"Exit to nearest Outpost" & "Exit to nearest friendly/free port" after LOSS in a battle.

Also players, and this is a old suggestion, should be able to change their "capital" naval base ( the teleport to capital ) trom time to time, like once every 60 days. So fleets can organize themselves in areas of influence and establish their "capital" for a while.

 

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