Limited economy slots - coming soon

[Anne Wildcat]

Agree with you Jon, but some people just do not like port battles (or am I alone?). Luckily land deeds will be available by other means.. 

[Anne Wildcat]

Question, will the capital have deeds? Would really like to see shipbuilding brought back to capitals.

[Lord Mad Mickl]

1 minute ago, captain pips said:

c`mon,you know that this is not the reality.i remember the trouble,when players joined pb without the "permission" of the commander...

I agree totally! Your in the wrong type of ship that is wanted from the commander of the PB, screening each PB gives you the opportunity to keep the enemy out of the PB but really what does it give you? My time zone leaves me the joy of PB between 1 am and 6 am, nothing has changed to help me be competitive and use anything that will be helpful in creating new boats for our own members! I will ride the storm and see what eventuates but I see that anyone in my location on the planet will be disadvanted.

[Rifle (BluOptics)]

3 minutes ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

Get some hostility points (1 or 2 fast pve missions) in that area and you have a spot in the PB guaranteed. How is that elite? You are the only one who decides if you want to join a PB or not.

Screening changes a lot with the next patch. And even if you get screened you will get a nice fight as reward at least.

Because they did nothing to get that port, so why should they be rewarded for doing nothing? I dont think that this change will kill crafters or traders, in the end they just have to buy a resource more and demand a bit more for their crafted ships. Just economy.

I see steps in the right direction. Economy is broken right now, its literally just afk sailing from capital to capital and trading with NPCs instead of looking for demands and trading with real players. Everyone has every resource with minimal effort, its just boring and not dynamic at all.

pretty sure u can find a post letting us know that PVE missions wont be needed

as for a free hand out to crafters that is simply not my point  ... think back to when Port battles gave out so much that players turned up in trade boats just so they could get the Loot      issue the first 25 land grants to the PB and I see even more trolling of people wanting to go in then before

 

yes the economy is Broken atm, but you wont fix it  every game going has people exploiting the market its what they do

[Hethwill]

7 minutes ago, captain pips said:

c`mon,you know that this is not the reality.i remember the trouble,when players joined pb without the "permission" of the commander...

Yes. But for some reason one of the PBs that lasts in memory was a defense of Parrot Cay against a Dutch fleet, sometime at 2 - 3 AM during the United Nations offensive to end the Pirate scourge.

A motley crew was gathered, mostly OW combat fans not really PB folk, no TS, no designated commanders, chat in battle was simple.

Dutch fleet was by the book. Ours was a mix of everything from renomees, up to a couple connies with everything else in between.

Wasn't hard to have fun and drive them back with a sounding victory, like proper wolves and jackals circling the stampeding herd. We kept cool and focused, watching each other, and playing very fluid. No "military history" maneuvers nor egocentric leaders. Was really great.

But organization in Conquest is needed. It is essential. BUT... One thing is for a clan to "monopolize" a specific PB. Another thing is for clans to monopolize the entire Conquest.

[fox2run]

So you think this confusing dev team will ever move it to anything near Beta?

 

[Aphilas]

14 hours ago, admin said:

This means only 25 Captains can own something in the city. (number is arbitrary and currently is equal to the number of port battle winners)

+/-

+ Incentive to do attacking PBs

- Incentive to screen for attack PB (if you're not getting inside PB, then it is more benefitial for you that you nation fails to cap it because then you have a chance to get into next PB)

- Incentive to defend PB if you don't have land (better to lose port and hope to get into recapturing PB to get land)

- Incentive to craft if you don't have time to participate in majority of PBs

- Incentive to craft if you are new to game because nobody will ever take you to PB to get land

- Time management: you either do EVERYTHING or you do pretty much nothing. If you want to craft, you have to attack PBs, defense PBs, haul massive amounts of resources from your lands, craft shifts, sell ships/resources. To top it of... Only ~50 most active players per nation will get to enjoy most of the games systems, the rest will be cut down to "run missions, buy ship, do open world PvP".

- hello kittyed up economy: Those that do PBs will be oligarchs, rest will live on scraps. Meaning prices will be inflated due to agreements among those 40-50 players per nation that do PBs.

 

To sum it up - don't feel offended but that is a horrible game design decision from pretty much every perspective. If you want to control economy control amount of resources that is available to be produced in every port, not amount of buildings that produces them. Egzample: Port produces 10k iron per day. If there are 20 iron mines, each mine can produce 500 iron per day. If there is 100 iron mines, each mine can produce 100 iron. As a bonus to this much simplier system (and much more controllable system since all you need is adjust numbers of port production cap depending on data gathered) you get an option for port upgrades - which you are planning for port defenses but now could do for port production too.

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Aphilas

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

there are regions with 7 ports. So if you conquer 1 region your nation gets 175 buildingslots. How big is the possibility that the 25 players of the portbattle use that 175 buildingslots and the 100 buildingslots with the next region too?

I think guys are forgetting there will be no more 2 port battle limits either.  If you got enough say Redii and his guys take one PORT (not region as the Devs keep saying ports) and Say I'm of the same alliance or even nation and me my clan hits the same region at the same time or hell we hit it in our prime time.   Since we will be merging with PvP1 and PvP2 we are going to be bringing a lot of players that will prob switch nations on both servers to start new groups and nations.  I played US.  I don't plan to play US again.  I will prob be Pirate for sure, but my second fav nations is Danes and Spain.  So not every player that is US time zone is going to run off and pick US and GB.  You have a chance to get a better balanced server now with folks willing to play other nations.   Since a clan can take a port for there own resources that means other clans can take other ports for theirs.  I'm going to bet you we see way more port battles like on the old flag system, but now with a lot of the old problems worked out.  Though we are going have to wait and see what the new systems are going to be like.

I'm pretty sure the players will have limits of buildings they have so if I'm at port battles all the time I won't get to use all my land grants so I'll pass them on to other players.

[Aphilas]

7 minutes ago, rediii said:

there are regions with 7 ports. So if you conquer 1 region your nation gets 175 buildingslots. How big is the possibility that the 25 players of the portbattle use that 175 buildingslots and the 100 buildingslots with the next region too?

 

edit: keep in mind that you have limited outposts

14 hours ago, admin said:

1. If you win the port battle alone you will get all the permits to yourself.

I'm pretty sure you can figure out what will happen with limited resource regions like, for example, live oak. Doesn't require genius to figure out that holding such regions lands and not selling them let's you inflate price of such resource to whatever you want.

I'm pretty sure someone in future will be bored enough to cap such regions with twinks from enemy nation to simply deny ability for enemy nation to recap such region and deny vital resources.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Aphilas

[Koltes]

2 hours ago, admin said:

We are discussing it today internally. Do not want to promise anything but there is a good chance that pvp global will be in USA.

If you do it on the West Coast then It will cover not only USA, but Australasia as well.

[Ned Loe]

13 hours ago, admin said:

There are 300 ports. it is 7500 buildings even at 25 per port. 2 PB limit per day will be removed (it only existed to limit night flips). With no nightflips we dont need stupid limits per day. Capture and defend the port and here we go 25 buildings 

How come Potbs could hold 2500 players, have tons of buildings, loot items and billions of resources, ships etc stockpiled and they were able to run everything ok. We are talking game from 2006. Naval Action runs on a  much more sophisticated engine and since I remember you are crying about too many items will make game unstable. I can't get it, is Unity engine that shi** or you guys need a good expert. You are building MMO and now you are trying to limit econ? This idea doesn't belong in public. 

1. You can't limit econ just for 25 players (this will be the end of your Game)

2. You can't limit econ, but you can give bonus to first come first earned it. The rest can get it, but without bonus. 

Explained:

-Those who participated in PB get 'Advanced' Structure permits.

-Those who screened/participated will get a bundle with one time resources.

-Those who did not participate can still build structures, but with no production bonus and very low 'default' rate.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Ned Loe

[captain pips]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

Like jon said RoE will change. IF your nation currently only handpicks portbattleplayers you can just go in yourself in the future. Also raids will be another income of ressources except from buildings.

The leakage in players didnt come from important portbattles - it came from boring screening battles and the hostilitysystem itself. farming pve isnt much fun.

What i see will happen will be a bigger rvr playerbase and multiple portbattles each day and portbattleplayers that don't care about buildings or already have all buildingslots filled they can so they sell these things. Crafters and traders have a purpose in supporting the rvr players which return favors in giving these buildingslots away.

 

I see it as a good change. You should atleast test it because, as dev's already wrote, if it doesnt work it will be hotfixed away

reducing the pvp content to pb won`t get more players to the game and ow pvp is just working with 1500 players or even more.

[Anne Wildcat]

@Ned Loe

POTBS, major pros and cons from my experience (not all pros and cons)

 

The pros

POTBS has massively more pve, missions can be found at I think every port, both do once and done mission types or types that can be done daily. It has more variety of PVE, both ship combat variety and avcom pve. Ship combat against ai takes a lot less time and is so much easier (seriously dumb ai, sloops will try to go broadside to broadside with a frigate). It's free to play.  Having avatars due to the avcom it feels more social.  

 

The cons

Its free to play so there is no stopping alts. The econ there is absolutely awful, it drives away any casual player that wants to do econ. There are labor hours there too, per structure, but it is real time.  Unless you pay, you can only have 2 building slots (and every single thing produced requires a building) unless you buy an expansion in slots from Burning Sea Notes (that are bought from real money). The past three sentances drive alt use.  The now standard pvp ships all require premium economic structures and possibly premium blueprints to build (so the crafter type either has to pay for the Burning Sea notes out of real money or use in game currency to buy it from someone who does pay out of real money). The econ is absolutely a nightmare in that game, please do not try to turn NA econ into POTBS econ.

As a shipbuilder for my soc, I spent maybe $100-$200 to set up my econ but quit from burnout. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Anne Wildcat

[Jack Jones]

Admin 

"Increase PB participation - pb's are mostly even battles and are fun if the battle is full. We want to provide hard incentives to drive players to fun mechanics"

JUST LET US PLAY OUR OWN GAME OUR WAY!!

[Wesreidau]

15 hours ago, admin said:

• Control resource supply to avoid inflation in the future
• Provide huge incentive to conquer and participate in conquest

@admin 

You know how I get annoyed at bad economic policy? This is an example of it. You are going to limit our ability to produce resources in order to "control inflation". What you will do instead is go right back to oak crisis, hemp crisis, iron crisis problems you had a year ago.

Twenty-five players with first rates, or the friends of those players, will have all the financial dominance of owning the outposts for Live Oak or Silver or what have you,and we'll see rampant inflation in the price of these commodities because no matter how much silver might be in demand and trading for, nobody will be able to open a 26th silver mine.

You're destroying PvE play as well. How are PvEers supposed to build outposts in your gulf PvE region? And won't your gulf PvE players be the ones actually printing money with risk-free trade missions giving millions of gold.

You are creating a system that reduces the ability of players to enjoy the economic game until they either amass millions of gold or 1st rates.

What the hell are you doing.

[Anne Wildcat]

What you will do instead is go right back to oak crisis, hemp crisis, iron crisis problems you had a year ago.

 

Can see that happening, hopefully npc production of common mats on a small scale will stay. I know on the testbed there is no npc production. 

[van der Clam]

1. Can we sell Land Plots to allies?
2. Are all the buildings available in the Region Capital also available in all the Region Ports?
3. Referring to the planned PB Screening System and Raiding System (can't remember the links) Will these screeners and raiders gain any Land Plots?
[Edits]
4. Can we set a percentage of our Building Products to automatically supply the Marketplace at our set price?
5. Will we be able to set our Buildings to automatically collect Resources?
(4&5 means...will we be able to finally set up an automated business, rather than having to do each step ourselves.)

I would highly suggest that the total number of Land Plots vary based on the size of the port and how many players settled there (buy an Outpost)

Edited March 17, 2017 by van der Decken

[Wesreidau]

No NPC production was the glorious glowing hope i had that the game would finally have a player-driven economy. Now they're putting shackles on the player's ability to act in the economy. I'm only hoping the Admiralty Store allows a player to buy buildings but...

Why not just give PB winners a pile of admiralty store tokens, and let everyone buy buildings with admiralty tokens.

Instead we have this system that will have players dogpile the port battle and not give a damn if they're in the organized group. Screeners get nothing now but risk. We used to gladly have screeners fight and die to get a 1st-rate in. The hope was afterwards you'd both open a silver mine and be enriched by it. Horray. Now that 1st-rate captain gets a land grant and you don't. Wow, what a great way to lose my one-durability ship.

[Cerebro]

5 hours ago, admin said:

Everyone should relax as usual - if this idea is bad is not going to survive for long. But we believe that this idea is great. 

Problem it solves

1. Right any given city with iron can have 1000 mines in it, providing unlimited supply of free money. Landowner mechanic provides the natural easily controllable limit. If supply is too great - number of slots can be decreased, if supply is too small number of slots can be increased. 
2. In addition landowner mechanic provides great incentives to join smaller nations who have free slots available
3. Increase PB participation - pb's are mostly even battles and are fun if the battle is full. We want to provide hard incentives to drive players to fun mechanics. 
4. It actually solves the alt buildings. Alt has to have that particular port permit - that means that someone has to actually do something to gain it - someone provided content to another player by winning pb (or losing pb)

Port battles are the main mechanism to gain the land but it is not the only one. You can buy it from other players, you could get it from the admiralty store. 

Idle players problem is solved through maintenance fees. You pay for a week and if you have not paid you lose that slot and someone else can open in that location. 
Alts cannot block the slot because you cannot block it. If you got the land permit = you get the building even if there is already X buildings in town. 

All this is important ONLY if inflation is indeed a problem (based on the player feedback). If inflation is NOT a problem and money should flow to everyone then this issue is moot honestly. 

PB is stil limited to 25 ppl. And since altlest on the GB side in the EU server there is some clans controling who joins PB they will control the market.

It wont give more ppl in PB. it sill only give more PB to the ppl doing PB all rdy.

The problem u say it fixes in 4 is not true. Alt´s will stil be there. most alt´s are from player who play PB. Since they again wil be doing PB they can sell/give the landowner mark to there alt´s.

So again they control the ship market and material market. U are doing so the rich players get even more rich and the small social/casual player get poor.

Its a really bad idea and u can see that ost ppl agree.

 

[Remus]

2 hours ago, JonSnowLetsGo said:

Because they did nothing to get that port, so why should they be rewarded for doing nothing?

Do nations really want a bunch of crafters taking up slots in port battles? I think not.

Do crafters really want to decrease their nation's chance of success because it's the only way they see of getting their hands on a resource? Probably not, but if we're forced ...

The spoils of war may well go to the victors, but not usually - not since medieval times - to the soldiers and sailors who did the fighting. By all means restrict the amount of a resource a port can produce, but use a civilian, civilized way of allocating it.

[Hethwill]

Whether I agree or not, there is nothing and no one stopping a group of friends and a random group to work towards opening a PB and damn entering it and fight.

So no, PBs on paper are not limited no a specific group of players.

If toxicity comes your way after you had your fun, take the flak, report abuse and move on.

[Remus]

4 hours ago, shaeberle84 said:

Does the 5 buildings per play restriction still hold? If so, much of the talk here is rendered invalid. No "elite" can have all the buildings then. Let's say theres 50 hardcore players per nation, they will account for 500 buildings. There are 8 nations, so they will have 4000 of the 7000 port buildings at max. This is not a monopoly.

Perhaps they'll just sit on the permits.

[_Masterviolin]

This is a terrible idea. Crafting is an extraordinary asset to the game, it's wicked fun! Building your own ship is something special, worth investing great time and effort. Reducing resource gain to a mere 25 players per port would kill crafting! Clans would become infinitely more powerful as players would be forced to join in groups to even get the bare minimum of their required resources. New players would probably quit and complain about it in steam reviews; "I can't get any resources because only the clans or experienced players can get resources".

I've never doubted the devs in anything, but this is ludicrous. The benefits do not outweigh the consequences.

[Wesreidau]

There's nothing broken here except the fix.

I mean what's the problem? PB's are the main draw for a lot of players. PB's have gotten all the improvements for several patches now. PB players are already at the height of power. Why would you give them all the economic power as well?

 

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Louis Garneray said:

Yes sir.. But that's not what happen ingame usually.

Yes. I know.

We are going through a lot of changes so why not also change this "stupidifying" mentality that some own Conquest rights !? A group can go into a PB but by all means the Nation can go to ALL PBs.