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Ned Loe

'Pirate refits' help prevent 1st rate catastrophe once again.

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As we all know Devs rolled back 3 durabilities on Rates. This can only mean that best rates can be produced on Nat toons and then quickly given up to Pirate toons as 1 dura boats, making Pirate Nation - a Fiction Nation who sails 25 best 1st rates in no time. My proposal is to prohibit construction of 1st rates on Pirate nation. Pirates never could manage and never had a dockyard that big to construct 1st rates anyway. Instead, they can capture 1st rates (it doesn't matter how they acquire it), ship will have -25% to all stats, but can be refitted with preferred Refit build. ex. Basic Refit will restore 25% to stats and will make it the same ship other Navies sail, or they can pick speed or reload refits with less armor. This will prevent multiple accounts dumping 1st rates into Pirate nation making them unbalanced. With this system Pirates can still make 1st rates dangerous in their hands , but with extra production step. Pirates can still sail recently captured unrefitted ships, but with penalty to certain stats. Refit is the only way to restore specs or make some specs even better. 

It's up to Developers to decide what materials should be required to construct the Refit, but it should not be very easy. PvP/PvE/Raid drops should be connected to refits. Refit will require 1 durability 1st rate ship of any type + Refit Package  (crafted) + Quantity of Marks/Penants etc..  Propose refit types. Current refit values are used to show an example. 

Pirates should be able to construct everything up to 2nd Rates with no problem, but not 1st rates. 

More sugestions in discussion \/

6vFmkHt.jpg  

Edited by Ned Loe
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Yeah nerf pirates even more, so nationals will have cheaper 3 dur first with gold modules while pirates 1 dur with no gold modules  (since ppl not gonna risk it) and even 25% worst 

they really need to be nerfed those OVERPOWERED pirates 

 

since fighting coalitions  1 vs 3 is not enouht already LOL 

 

ps. how many firstrartes usa danes sweden got in the caribbean exactly? 

Edited by Lord Vicious
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20 minutes ago, Ned Loe said:

As we all know Devs rolled back 3 durabilities on Rates. This can only mean that best rates can be produced on Nat toons and then quickly given up to Pirate toons as 1 dura boats, making Pirate Nation - a Fiction Nation who sails 25 best 1st rates in no time. My proposal is to prohibit construction of 1st rates on Pirate nation. Pirates never could manage and never had a dockyard that big to construct 1st rates anyway. Instead, they can capture 1st rates (it doesn't matter how they acquire it), ship will have -25% to all stats, but can be refitted with preferred Refit build. ex. Basic Refit will restore 25% to stats and will make it the same ship other Navies sail, or they can pick speed or reload refits with less armor. This will prevent multiple accounts dumping 1st rates into Pirate nation making them unbalanced. With this system Pirates can still make 1st rates dangerous in their hands , but with extra production step. Pirates can still sail recently captured unrefitted ships, but with penalty to certain stats. Refit is the only way to restore specs or make some specs even better. 

It's up to Developers what materials will be required to construct the Refit, but it should not be very easy. PvP/PvE/Raid drops should be connected to refits. Propose refit types. Current refit values are used to show an example. 

Pirates should be able to construct everything up to 2nd Rates with no problem, but not 1st rates. 

6vFmkHt.jpg  

People who peddle this type of idea don't playPirate and have no intention of doing so. What on earth would make anyone want to play Pirate under this sort of scheme? What counter balance will make the Pirates stronger in another area to make this penalty worth while?

Make a pirate game that YOU would want to play, not one that stops the enjoyment of others.

Buster

Kicks the cat.

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45 minutes ago, Lord Vicious said:

Yeah nerf pirates even more, so nationals will have cheaper 3 dur first with gold modules while pirates 1 dur with no gold modules  (since ppl not gonna risk it) and even 25% worst 

they really need to be nerfed those OVERPOWERED pirates 

 

since fighting coalitions  1 vs 3 is not enouht already LOL 

 

ps. how many firstrartes usa danes sweden got in the caribbean exactly? 

Pirates were pirates, poor outlaws who never sailed 1st rates. Pirates never had strength to conquer the world, hurt and raid ports yes. People who pick Pirate nation should know that it will need extra work to match World powers like England, USA, Spain etc...Who in the world gave pirates Navy Ships of the line right from the start? Simply stupid. 

Edited by Ned Loe
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1 minute ago, Ned Loe said:

Pirates were pirates, poor outlaws who never sailed 1st rates. 

Agreed.

Being it not a player choice but a mechanic ( suggestion ) how to make them "competitive" at the same level as nations ?

What would they have in exchange ? Ruses would be nice but hard to implement, maybe. What else ?

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18 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Agreed.

Being it not a player choice but a mechanic ( suggestion ) how to make them "competitive" at the same level as nations ?

What would they have in exchange ? Ruses would be nice but hard to implement, maybe. What else ?

Add better refits, I only suggesting refits on 1st rates. However, this idea can be expanded on Frigates as well. Pirates could enhance certain stats when Crafting refits. Now compared to Pirates,  Nationals will be stuck with default crafted ones or can Capture pirate Refits and 'Certifying them for Navy Service using Marks in Admiralty office. This will result in both sides can't simply sail each other ships without extra work. 

Make Pirates capture Navy Frigates without penalty and be able to adjust certain specs when refiting, but capturing 1st rates will result in -25% to stats and must be refit to restore it's sailing capabilities to it's full. All these actions must use marks in Admiralty.

This will make nationals hunt Pirates because they have refits, and Pirates can hunt Nationals to steal Navy ship for a refit. End result - more pvp and rewards.. 

Important note* - Only captured 1 dura Navy ships should be available for a Pirate Refit. Crafting 5 dura Frigate on Pirate won't work. 

Edited by Ned Loe
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Here we go... again. Players who want 1 druability ships because it's more realistic, are against the slightest effort to make the one, the one faction just a little more realistic.

And no, players who peddle this idea have played Pirate and it wasn't what they hoped it to be. 

Nations may not have had more than 7 first rates at the same time, but Ned is not suggesting that Pirates not have them, rather that they acquire them in a more "Pirate" manner.

As Hethwill has pointed out, the problem is how to make the Pirate's (or maybe just the proposed Outlaw's) competitive while at the same time making them a truly unique faction to play.

No one wants to nerf Pirates just for nerfing's sake.

 

Edited by Captiva
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10 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

BIG NO.

Explain why? I said big YES and explained myself. 

Edited by Ned Loe

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42 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Because nerfing pirates without ANY new unique mechanics for them is idiotic and has no benefits for the gameplay.

Pirates should not be equal in power when compared to Other nations, but they can have unique refit capabilities and can be stronger in Frigate vs Frigate PvP.

Making them alt dupe 1st rates is just silly. This is what you are asking for

1 Crafted National/Pirate (1st rate) = 3 Pirate 1st rates or simply I use my alt and supply rates to pirates. 10 rates = 30 1 dura first rates, Pirates attacking any national port much faster with x2 speed and force compared to all other Nations. Are you crazy?

Not only they will be able to Produce 1st Rates, but they will also be able to take over National Alt built ones without any penalties. 

These 1 dura rates will be used to take Nats ports without any problems any day of the week. 1 National well organized clan can supply 1st rates and put every Pirate in 1st rate ship withing weeks, so they can quickly take any ports without any construction/material/labor problems. I understand you want easy mode, but this is game breaking. There will be no balance because Devs don't control ship loses from account to account resulting in alts giving up boats to their Pirate toons. We are going to see a new catastrophe developing very soon. 

Ex. USA signs the deal with Pirate Nation and start supplying them with rates. Pirates are now weakening preferred US enemies while USA fleet is flanking and taking their ports from another side. This all will result in Pirates and Nation who supplies Rates to pirates as Invincible force who will control the Caribbean. 

Do you want this? if yes I am more than eager to test it and break the game completely. Expect durabilities to flow like water filing Pirate Flasks. 

Edited by Ned Loe

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33 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Because nerfing pirates without ANY new unique mechanics for them is idiotic and has no benefits for the gameplay.

The benefit is that only a unique kind of player will roll pirate.

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1 minute ago, maturin said:

The benefit is that only a unique kind of player will roll pirate.

:rolleyes: That is indeed one of the strong points regarding the whole robbers at sea discussion.

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2 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

As we all know Devs rolled back 3 durabilities on Rates. This can only mean that best rates can be produced on Nat toons and then quickly given up to Pirate toons as 1 dura boats, making Pirate Nation - a Fiction Nation who sails 25 best 1st rates in no time. My proposal is to prohibit construction of 1st rates on Pirate nation. Pirates never could manage and never had a dockyard that big to construct 1st rates anyway. Instead, they can capture 1st rates (it doesn't matter how they acquire it), ship will have -25% to all stats, but can be refitted with preferred Refit build. ex. Basic Refit will restore 25% to stats and will make it the same ship other Navies sail, or they can pick speed or reload refits with less armor. This will prevent multiple accounts dumping 1st rates into Pirate nation making them unbalanced. With this system Pirates can still make 1st rates dangerous in their hands , but with extra production step. Pirates can still sail recently captured unrefitted ships, but with penalty to certain stats. Refit is the only way to restore specs or make some specs even better. 

It's up to Developers to decide what materials should be required to construct the Refit, but it should not be very easy. PvP/PvE/Raid drops should be connected to refits. Refit will require 1 durability 1st rate ship of any type + Refit Package  (crafted) + Quantity of Marks/Penants etc..  Propose refit types. Current refit values are used to show an example. 

Pirates should be able to construct everything up to 2nd Rates with no problem, but not 1st rates. 

More sugestions in discussion \/

6vFmkHt.jpg  

@Ned Loe I dont understand your logic.

The game needs to be balanced and fair to everybody. Pirates been nerfed already. Being pirate today is hardly fair. They cant have alliances. You are now trying to further nerf them. Switch their name to say Portugal. What will change? All of a sudden they are not OP? Lol

Removing ability to craft 1st rates will further nerf them from having regions and supplies (remember they cant even have supplies from your allies if you are a pirates).

You tried to avoid alt switching, but in reality will achieve only that. Today if you are a pirate and want to be competitive you must have a nation alt to survive. I would love to have another pirate alt, but thats what I have to do in order to have supplies.

Besides we already sail best 1st rates in the game and always have been.

Until pirate faction is done properly with separate mechanics it needs to be treated just like another nation.

And give us back our alliances FFS!

 

 

Edited by koltes
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2 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

Pirates were pirates, poor outlaws who never sailed 1st rates. Pirates never had strength to conquer the world, hurt and raid ports yes. People who pick Pirate nation should know that it will need extra work to match World powers like England, USA, Spain etc...Who in the world gave pirates Navy Ships of the line right from the start? Simply stupid. 

12 years a is a long time, but while not a super power it was still a force in the area.  Until we have our on mechanics that isn't national like than we will play as a nation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Pirates

People also forget what most pirates where.  Many of the  most known Pirates started out as Privateer for one nation or another.  It was when there was no war that they tend to turn to Pirate status.   This is why I suggested the Privateer/Outlaw/Pirate mechanics several times so we are not a nation, but a assortment of Privateers and  Outlaws/Pirates instead.  We don't own any Regions our self (other than Kidds which should be the Pirate/Outlaw capital).   Make Mort neutral for all nations so it becomes a trading hub (though other than the green zone still not safe to travel in).   The other ports can be used by all nations to give every one more than one region to craft in.  Kinda like how Pitts was for National it will be neutral zone.  Than allow Privateers to join a nation as one to work for them.  Would need a reputation system so that you can only work for nations your on good standing.  You can use those ports while working for that nation, but if your not on a contract than you an Outlaw/Pirate and can only use Kidds region (Pirate Refit) and free towns.  They could give them one shallow region too (the other pirate refit region).  So that one aspect is special for Pirates/Outlaws/Privateers.  With the reputation system you can earn enough to become a full member of that nation over time.  The same system can be used to leave a nation. You leave a nation and become an outlaw/Pirate.  Than you can move to Privateer for a new nation and earn the rep to become a member of the new nation fully.  While working for a nation you can only join that nations Port Battles and use there regions, you can't use or join any of there alliances Port Battles or regions (without the smuggler flag or it's replacement which could be Trade Reputation for that nation.)  I would say use the Admirality officer as a means to get a Letter of Marque for a nation. Have them only work for a week at a time you have to buy them from the nation.  Prob through PvE/PvP marks system so that it fuels the reason your being a Privateer for that nation...the PvP.  This would make the Pirates nation truelly your hard core PvPers in game that isn't truelove interested in the RvR part but can still get invovled.

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

It's a good idea for Outlaws.

See below on ships.....

1 hour ago, Otto Kohl said:

Because nerfing pirates without ANY new unique mechanics for them is idiotic and has no benefits for the gameplay.

Ok as for the ships and crafting.  Pirates/Privateers/Outlaws once a system like above is put into place can be limited to ships they can craft to 4th rates and below.  The only way they can get a SOL capture it.   When the ship is capture it's a 1 dura ship just like the current system.  The only change will be that Nationals that capture ships that are SOL's will be sold back to the admiralty as per like the current system for NPC's ships captured in missions.   All other captured ships of 4th rates and below can be keeped.  Ships like the Pirate Frigate can only be crafted by the Pirates as it's truly a refit and it can be done like how another game done it.  You bring a Frigate to a pirate port (Kidds) and turn it in to get the exact ship build as a Pirate frigate with the same 1 (Captured) or 5 (new ships) duras.   They will prob have to make a few more ships like this for the Privateer/Pirates/Outlaws.   They can use current ship models, but change the  stats and names of the ship that has been refitted.  I can see them doing a few of the trader/war ships that can cross overs.  Trader Snow and the Snow.  The Belle Poule and the LVG.  Give you more trade space for the raids but not enough as it had as a trader, but give it more guns than the trader version.  This would allow to have a new perk.  False flag:   It can make the ship look as if it's actually the trader version of the refit ships or a normal ship could carry a false flag of a friendly nation.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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To add with this give the Pirates true raid system .   Not the crap that the devs are coming up with, that can be keep as a national raid system.   What pirate/outlaws and only they can buy a flag (like the old flag system).  If you are currently a Privateer working for a nation you can't buy a flag and do a raid cause you are working under that nation rules.   The raids will be like the old flag system, but needs a cool down for false flags.  When a port is raided it's a 15 vs 15 battle for that port only, this will give better numbers to be filled on the spur of a moment.  Capitals of regions and ports in the capital regions can't be raided.  If you win the fight than that port is raided for 3-5 days.  While it's raided all production is stopped for the Nation that owns that region.   While raided the Pirates/Outlaws can produce goods and make ships in that region (limited to 4th rates and below).   If a false flag is not planted or if a port is raided there is a cool down just like normal regions captured until it can be raided again.  If some one buys a false flag and don't plant it (not counting if sunk with flag) than they can't buy any new raid flag for that same time.  5-7 days would keep from there being abuse of the system like the old flag system and folks buying 5 flags for one battle.   If you are sunk with the flag on you going towards a raid than the flag is dead and there is a normal 24 hour cool down until server resets until a new flag can be bought.  If a flag is bought that port can't have a new flag pulled on it until after the server maintenance.  This keeps ports from being attacked multi times a day.

Penalize that nations region that have been successfully raided.  All agro put on it is increased to make it easier for other nations to attack that nations region while it's in chaos during a raid.  There can only be two raids active at a time like the current port battle timer.  This would mean pirates would have to pick the port careful that needs to be raided.  The flags need to be costly and not gold.  PvP Marks would be great for this.   You need a lot of marks to get a flag to raid a port.

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2 hours ago, koltes said:

Until pirate faction is done properly with separate mechanics it needs to be treated just like another nation.

 

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 Until we have our on mechanics that isn't national like than we will play as a nation. 

Why can't you understand that this is exactly what Ned - and every other player who wants Pirate's to be meaningful and powerful in their own unique way - is trying to do? He's merely offering one suggestion to the road map for making Pirates unique and powerful in their own right. He and others are not trying to take something away from Pirates without giving back advantages to them that other nations can't have. We all want Pirates to be a meaningful part of this game.

The following is not directed at either of you. You've both offered solid ideas and provided valuable player feedback on this forum; but for those players who are against changes to playing the Pirate character - in order to make them at least somewhat closer to their historical reality - I don't believe they really want to play as a true Pirate, and would be better off joining one of the other seven nations - and again, I played Pirate for a long time. 

 

Edited by Captiva
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44 minutes ago, Captiva said:

 

Why can't you understand that this is exactly what Ned - and every other player who wants Pirate's to be meaningful and powerful in their own unique way - is trying to do? He's merely offering one suggestion to the road map for making Pirates unique and powerful in their own right. He and others are not trying to take something away from Pirates without giving back advantages to them that other nations can't have. We all want Pirates to be a meaningful part of this game.

The following is not directed at either of you. You've both offered solid ideas and provided valuable player feedback on this forum; but for those players who are against changes to playing the Pirate character in order to make them at least somewhat closer to their historical reality, then I don't believe they really want to play as a true Pirate, and would be better off joining one of the other seven nations - and again, I played Pirate for a long time. 

 

Many of the others that put there input into the pirate mechanics don't play it and seem to put very one sided info into there concepts.  Like listed that make SOL captured only by pirates, Nationals that capture get paid out like NPC SOL's.   There is all ways going to be abuse of system, but to be honest 100% of our first rates on PvP2 are pirate built.  We captured North C the other day just to pump out a tons of  Strong Hull Ships and than let it go.  The ships we capture we give to new players and other smaller nations cause hate to say it Nationals make some pretty crappy ship combo's. I think it's cause they do it more for PvE than PvP design in use.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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3 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

Pirates should not be equal in power when compared to Other nations, ...

 

2 hours ago, koltes said:

...

The game needs to be balanced and fair to everybody. ....

 

 

Bottom line for me in this game is, I agree with Ned Loe's statement above, and I disagree with koltes statement above.

Choosing pirate should be the hardest of all choices in this game, and the gameplay should make it so.  It should be more difficult, and that by design.  Truly this was also the devs intentions when you first chose your faction and the game told you what was the harder role to play.  I think this should still be the case.  Perhaps the suggested way of making this happen for pirate play isn't the best (I don't think I agree with the methodology proposed either), but pirate should be harder to play and balanced against them.  Pirates should not be able to stand toe to toe against conquering civilizations, regardless of what Black Sails tries to make you believe.

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Sandbox still offers the players that want to play as sea rovers that opportunity. It is just subjective to the player self-imposed playstyle rules.

I think the entire suggestion lies more into packing the pirate option in a box, like many times before and to make them... rare and not the obvious choice.

On the other hand it offers liberty of action ( let's dismiss the %% bonuses presented ) that might suit a lot to limited time players.

 

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I will try to answer all your posts in one so I could go away from this thread. Not trying to be rude, but we already expressed how we feel about it. No need to stir it more.

 

9 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

Pirates were pirates, poor outlaws who never sailed 1st rates. Pirates never had strength to conquer the world, hurt and raid ports yes. People who pick Pirate nation should know that it will need extra work to match World powers like England, USA, Spain etc...Who in the world gave pirates Navy Ships of the line right from the start? Simply stupid. 

We dont need ports to have the power. In fact not having ports unties our hands as we can roll whatever and don't need to defend anything. You see us as pirates. But the fact is there are NO PIRATES in this game. There is only a fictional Pirate nation that never really existed.
 

 

9 hours ago, Captiva said:

Here we go... again. Players who want 1 druability ships because it's more realistic, are against the slightest effort to make the one, the one faction just a little more realistic.

And no, players who peddle this idea have played Pirate and it wasn't what they hoped it to be. 

Nations may not have had more than 7 first rates at the same time, but Ned is not suggesting that Pirates not have them, rather that they acquire them in a more "Pirate" manner.

As Hethwill has pointed out, the problem is how to make the Pirate's (or maybe just the proposed Outlaw's) competitive while at the same time making them a truly unique faction to play.

No one wants to nerf Pirates just for nerfing's sake.

 

Exactly mate! The key word is UNIQUE. Tell me please in this current form what is so unique about pirate nation apart from the nerfs that you guys seem to coming up all the time? Yes we DO WANT to roll differently, but it does not mean that we want to be nerfed not for your own sake, not for nerfing sake itself.

 

 

8 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

Pirates should not be equal in power when compared to Other nations, but they can have unique refit capabilities and can be stronger in Frigate vs Frigate PvP.

Making them alt dupe 1st rates is just silly. This is what you are asking for

1 Crafted National/Pirate (1st rate) = 3 Pirate 1st rates or simply I use my alt and supply rates to pirates. 10 rates = 30 1 dura first rates, Pirates attacking any national port much faster with x2 speed and force compared to all other Nations. Are you crazy?

Not only they will be able to Produce 1st Rates, but they will also be able to take over National Alt built ones without any penalties. 

These 1 dura rates will be used to take Nats ports without any problems any day of the week. 1 National well organized clan can supply 1st rates and put every Pirate in 1st rate ship withing weeks, so they can quickly take any ports without any construction/material/labor problems. I understand you want easy mode, but this is game breaking. There will be no balance because Devs don't control ship loses from account to account resulting in alts giving up boats to their Pirate toons. We are going to see a new catastrophe developing very soon. 

Ex. USA signs the deal with Pirate Nation and start supplying them with rates. Pirates are now weakening preferred US enemies while USA fleet is flanking and taking their ports from another side. This all will result in Pirates and Nation who supplies Rates to pirates as Invincible force who will control the Caribbean. 

Do you want this? if yes I am more than eager to test it and break the game completely. Expect durabilities to flow like water filing Pirate Flasks. 

Pirates today is just another nation. Since it is another nation it MUST have same tools and means to fight in PVP game of supremacy.
All your post and even the title seem to be a storm in a bottle. You need to stop this hysterical panic.
We ALREADY have so many 1st rates we have to open multiple alt accounts to store them. Let it settle for a bit. ALREADY have!
Now I'm not saying that I all agree with 3 duras. I'm rather with the camp that wants all ships to be 1 dura only.

 

7 hours ago, maturin said:

The benefit is that only a unique kind of player will roll pirate.

We are all unique.  In order to play unique faction (presumably you mean Pirates) this nation needs to be unique in the first place.
Right now you are nerfing pirates again without making them... well... unique? funny that

 

5 hours ago, Captiva said:

 

Why can't you understand that this is exactly what Ned - and every other player who wants Pirate's to be meaningful and powerful in their own unique way - is trying to do? He's merely offering one suggestion to the road map for making Pirates unique and powerful in their own right. He and others are not trying to take something away from Pirates without giving back advantages to them that other nations can't have. We all want Pirates to be a meaningful part of this game.

The following is not directed at either of you. You've both offered solid ideas and provided valuable player feedback on this forum; but for those players who are against changes to playing the Pirate character - in order to make them at least somewhat closer to their historical reality - I don't believe they really want to play as a true Pirate, and would be better off joining one of the other seven nations - and again, I played Pirate for a long time. 

 

Why can't you understand that offering this:
" Instead, they can capture 1st rates (it doesn't matter how they acquire it), ship will have -25% to all stats..."
means nerfing without making unique. You are trying to build a house without the frame. Or build frame AFTER you have built the house. As this has been subtly mentioned before this is just plain stupid.

I'm all for pirates being unique. Fine. But before making all these nerfs, we must become unique faction FIRST before you start changing all pirate ROE, ships, crafting, trading etc.
Dont want pirates to capture ports - remove this from the game altogether. But there must have to be something in return. Like @Sir Texas Sir been trying to get through your peoples heads for months - give us Raids that are pirate only mechanic. We wont take ports, but we can still attack and have same/similar PBs. Do it THAT way, but not some BS ship nerf.

Want to really make this unique faction? Make free ports only available to pirates to establish Outposts. The nationals must OWN the port to make the Outpost. How do you about that? At the end of the day pirates were best sailors. They lived on sea and lived of the sea. It only makes sense that they have better access to different parts of the sea without need to capture ports.

Then pirates wont care if we have ports or not. I would go with that. Question is - would YOU go with that?
How would you feel of being nerfed that way? Wait why not? Don't you want to be unique???? Common, this nerf WILL make you unique from pirates! Yes? No? Huh, thoughts so.

Yet you want to make pirates unique by what? Nerfing them? Thank, but no, thanks!

 

4 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

 

Bottom line for me in this game is, I agree with Ned Loe's statement above, and I disagree with koltes statement above.

Choosing pirate should be the hardest of all choices in this game, and the gameplay should make it so.  It should be more difficult, and that by design.  Truly this was also the devs intentions when you first chose your faction and the game told you what was the harder role to play.  I think this should still be the case.  Perhaps the suggested way of making this happen for pirate play isn't the best (I don't think I agree with the methodology proposed either), but pirate should be harder to play and balanced against them.  Pirates should not be able to stand toe to toe against conquering civilizations, regardless of what Black Sails tries to make you believe.

Hardest faction to play should have NOTHING to do with what ships we can or cannot sail.
In good settlement PVP game hard nation would mean full time PVP. Anyone can attack you without consequences to them. No secure place to be. For pirates its PVP 24/7 while nationals needs to have their capital a high security safe place. etc etc.

This is how you make one nation harder to play. Not by taking away the means to fight. I have bought this game to be a pirate. I have also bought this game to sail what I want. Just like most of the pirates too. So what now?

 

 

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sandbox still offers the players that want to play as sea rovers that opportunity. It is just subjective to the player self-imposed playstyle rules.

I think the entire suggestion lies more into packing the pirate option in a box, like many times before and to make them... rare and not the obvious choice.

On the other hand it offers liberty of action ( let's dismiss the %% bonuses presented ) that might suit a lot to limited time players.

 

This is where you people are keep making same mistake over and over. This game is an Open World game, but is NOT a sandbox game. They are completely two different things. In Sandbox there are no levels, timers, ranks, skills, perks. Nothing. You just have tools, your own time. In true sandbox you could jump and sail that 1st rate first second in the game if you had access to it. Since you have to grind... this is not a sandbox.

I tell you what pirates needs to be:
1. Pirates needs to live among nations. All pirates are people of SOME nation right?;
2. There needs to be professions available to players that gives access to specific mechanics;
3. Some of pirate profession could be Smuggler, Privateer and the Outlaw;
4. Smuggler is basically a pirate trader with ability to trader with nations and sell on black market;
5. As Outlaw player has access to more Outposts (mere example);
6. As Privateer pirate has ability to fight for the nation he works for;
7. Some of nation professions could be Bounty Hunter, Navy Officer, Merchant etc etc;
8. Pirates have pirate ports that historically are La Tortue, Nassau, Kingston Port Royal and some others;

All in all there is no pirate faction.All pirates were free people and worked together though contracts if it was beneficial to them.
Pirates live among nations and are part of nation, but under different rules. Still PVP 24/7 for them etc.
This means that British Privateers will be fighting Spanish Privateers because they were on different side.
The uniqueness of Pirate faction is that its not one single entity, its a faction of people divided by nations.

This powerful yet simple nation mechanics will sort all pirate issues then and now. There you have it. You just ruled out pirates without a single nerf.
Now you have pirates fighting on nations side still sailing what they want.
Huh WHAT?! Yes. Done

 

 

 

Edited by koltes

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8 hours ago, Ned Loe said:

.

Making them alt dupe 1st rates is just silly. This is what you are asking for

 

Ok I'm kinda getting sick of seeing this and it tells me you have no clue what pirates do.   From my many years of player dupe a ship/item is by some way using an exploit to get a copy of something.  How exactly are we doing this?  Though since your bring up alts and such I think he's thinking of the way folks use to do this one POTBS to get none pirate ships including 1st rates.   They would give it up with there National alts to there pirates.  The problem is I don't know how it goes on PvP1, but on PvP2 we don't need national alts to make our ships.  WE MAKE THEM OUR SELVES.  I have two level 50 crafters in my clan.   Just about ever member of our clan is Curse and Level 50 crafters.  Many of us have rare BP.  Hell I think I'm one of the only folks that is active and has the gunboat right now.   So why would we need to us our alts in Nations if we had any to get first rates?  We can just make them exactly how we want them.  That are you just trade them over from one char to another there is no reason to dupe anything.    Hell even more funny is the BLACK clan has been producing ships for the small nations on our server cause we have more level 40 crafters with the proper BP's than they do. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Ok I'm kinda getting sick of seeing this and it tells me you have no clue what pirates do.   From my many years of player dupe a ship/item is by some way using an exploit to get a copy of something.  How exactly are we doing this?  Though since your bring up alts and such I think he's thinking of the way folks use to do this one POTBS to get none pirate ships including 1st rates.   They would give it up with there National alts to there pirates.  The problem is I don't know how it goes on PvP1, but on PvP2 we don't need national alts to make our ships.  WE MAKE THEM OUR SELVES.  I have two level 50 crafters in my clan.   Just about ever member of our clan is Curse and Level 50 crafters.  Many of us have rare BP.  Hell I think I'm one of the only folks that is active and has the gunboat right now.   So why would we need to us our alts in Nations if we had any to get first rates?  We can just make them exactly how we want them.  That are you just trade them over from one char to another there is no reason to dupe anything.    Hell even more funny is the BLACK clan has been producing ships for the small nations on our server cause we have more level 40 crafters with the proper BP's than they do. 

I think he meant dupe as break down one 3 dura 1st rate and multiply into x3 1 dura 1st rates. I would certainly NOT do that. I would simply buy from nation or get my alt to craft it for me and happily sail 3 dura 1st rate with gold marines, powder monkeys etc.
They don't know what they are talking about man.
BLACK clan on PVP2 single handedly can provide the entire server with 1st rates and still have too many left to be able to use them all.
Soon enough we ill be giving away 3 dura ships too lol. No need to make them inferior

Edited by koltes

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In the end, whichever way the developers choose to make pirates different is totally fine with me. I definitely don't want them to do something that will make you or anyone else unhappy, because that would not be good for the game. And I certainly didn't want a sincere, thoughtful suggestion from Ned Loe to devolve into adolescent responses such as..."yes? No? Huh, thought so" or "Huh WHAT?! Yes. Done" or the extremely arrogant "They don't know what they're talking about man." No one on this forum has the ability to divine the thoughts and intentions of anyone else on this forum, and no can say with certainty that they are right when debating ideas.

I believe that nerf is the wrong adjective to use when describing any suggested change to pirates. If a pirate mechanic is changed with the intent of making the pirate faction a bit more historical, then that should and probably will be balanced by giving the pirate faction something in return which the other seven nations can't have. In this way no nerf is being deployed, just a different mechanic.

I was one of the first 15 members of your clan - Pete's Black clan - playing under a different name. I switched nations after a major wipe and realized that the pirate faction was identical to every other nation. That was a disappointment to me. Since that time, whenever the subject comes up for making pirates truly different from other nations, I offer my opinions. 

God bless you man, I only wish that players wouldn't take the knee jerk reaction that anyone who offers a suggestion for making pirates different, must then by default, have sinister reasons for doing so. Quite the contrary.

 

Edited by Captiva
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