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Raids explained - forthcoming feature

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I'm game. I'd hope that these things aren't set in stone and the plan is to iterate upon the successes of this initial test and learn from any mistakes that are encountered (i.e. we won't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater like we did with fine woods)? Thank you for developing a system for such player-generated encounters. Hopefully there will be more of such content in the future. :) 

p.s. players hate RNG for production (fine woods) and do like *reasonable* RNG for loots. The key here is *reasonable*.

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Raids

They will provide an opportunity for a group of people to raid and rob any port in the Caribbean. 

Ports for raids will be defended by a random number of NPC ships depending on several factors from city size to port status or other parameters. Basically you can get lucky and find a rich lightly defended port or you might have to fight through 20 ships and find dirty socks. Sometimes letters will drop telling that certain ports have good resources stocked and in this case you are better of not linking that letter to chat as the port will be raided. 

But there is a PVP twist. Raids can be invaded. 
Any player of the allied nation who owns the port can join the instance and take a NPC bot ship helping them defend the port from the raid.

This can be done by two methods. 

  • You can enter the raid on defending side from the raided port
  • You can enter the raid using invasion ticket (available for battle ensigns in the admiralty)

Successful raids give City keys (marks of conquest) and port resources. Port resources are split for all participants so the less captains you bring the more rewards you get. You also have to get them to the nearest friendly port after a raid unless you are in a raiding trading ship with smuggler flag. 

 

Can we get them as redeemables instead?

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1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

As for the raid syste...oh look more PvE content.  As you take more and more PvP content away.  What the point even going on the OW any more?  Most of us thought the raids would be more like the old flag system but better managment and only vs ports.   Maybe even 15 vs 15 so they are like small battles instead of the big port battles.   To be honest I would prefer  raid system like that for pirates to have a port for 3-5 days instead of doing the regional stuff.

Did I misread something or did they not say that players can jump in to make these PvP events? If it works in this way I think it might be a reasonable compromise for player-generated content that's not necessarily uncontested but can be quite PvP heavy if the nations involved are active at the same time that the raid is generated, etc.  

I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we see how they work in any case, because anything is better than the ridiculous PvE hostility grind we have now.

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Well I like the idea that a bot can suddenly get taken over by a player - surprise! 

I agree with @Sharpe that there should be some warning for players to jump into the defense, otherwise you might have all PVE. Overall I like it and let's test it out. For the loot there should be a way to load everything on an Indiaman and have the players divide up the spoils back at home port. 

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Any player of the allied nation who owns the port can join the instance and take a NPC bot ship helping them defend the port from the raid.

Isn't it ridiculous to allow players to have an NPC puppy with them? With all do respect, this gonna ruin the entire raid gameplay. No, i agree that there should be some NPC ships guarding the port with a bastion but...Players shouldn't have a possibility to bring any NPC ships with them, imho. Please, don't make the same mistake twice.

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6 hours ago, sruPL said:

I talk about this. Players will not be happy to fight 20-25 ships in raid for 1:30h and then find out that their reward is peace of crap worth nothing. Maybe make the reward 3 Snappers for that battle?

 

Or maybe you wait and test it before you complain ... you know nothing about how it will play out or did you play it? no? (random rewards doesnt mean 100% or 0% percent only you know i bet Devs are able to adjust the table of rewards)

 

Btw. What i forgot when people always complain about its not pvp i ask myself always what is so difficult to find other people like you meet at a specific time with a specific range of ships and have your match o.O in the end its a sandbox in minecraft no one complains ...

 

This thread needs mods ...

Edited by Lonar

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1 hour ago, el_mariachi said:

Isn't it ridiculous to allow players to have an NPC puppy with them? With all do respect, this gonna ruin the entire raid gameplay. No, i agree that there should be some NPC ships guarding the port with a bastion but...Players shouldn't have a possibility to bring any NPC ships with them, imho. Please, don't make the same mistake twice.

From how I read it you assume control of an NPC ship already in the raiding instance, instead of sailing your own ship. For all the complaints about this being more PvE, I think its actually a rather good move in implementation - people can raid and still have to fight their way in, with the danger of players taking over AI ships to create a rather heated PvP battle (greater danger the closer you are to popular shipping lanes), but even if other players don't join it means that it isn't a walkover for people to 'farm' these City Key things if no-one is able to defend.

I'd be interested to see this in action.

Edited by Rikard Frederiksen
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Guest sruPL
23 minutes ago, Lonar said:

 

Or maybe you wait and test it before you complain ... you know nothing about how it will play out or did you play it? no? (random rewards doesnt mean 100% or 0% percent only you know i bet Devs are able to adjust the table of rewards)

 

Btw. What i forgot when people always complain about its not pvp i ask myself always what is so difficult to find other people like you meet at a specific time with a specific range of ships and have your match o.O in the end its a sandbox in minecraft no one complains ...

 

This thread needs mods ...

What is so difficult? Most people don't wanna do Small Battles and in OW people don't like even / balanced battles because they can lose duras, officer. Expect most enemies to run from even fight.

Edited by sruPL

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10 hours ago, admin said:

Basically you can get lucky and find a rich lightly defended port (...)

Sometimes letters will drop telling that certain ports have good resources stocked (...)

Basically you can get lucky and find a rich lightly defended port(...)

 

The entire Raid business seems like a good option. Just from those 3 lines I can see that it is well grounded on historical fact, from the well known ports that served to ship treasures back to Europe to the small ones that no one hears about but that were actually the ones that had the mines of gold and silver.

On top of that the "hearsay" about defenses of the ports was an essential part of raiding so we get the Letters giving us clues.

It is a interesting twist that players can control the NPC fleet inside the port. I'm still not clear how it happens and where the player must be located to enter. Must he be in the Region where the raided port is located ? Can he join from anywhere ? Must he be AT the port itself ?

Other than that is a course of action that might be undertaken by some smaller groups that enjoy the playstyle. Seems to me like a very good move.

As with all other sandbox options... no one has to do it, so it really builds up the experience of those that do it and doesn't affect (much) those that don't - town still gets stripped of resources and other shiny goods :)

 

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My scepticism aside, I have some questions about these raids:

  • Will the defending NPC ships that you can spawn to take control of have a standardised fitting? Or do you risk getting insta-killed because you spawned in a fir frigate with medium cannons next to a Pavel?
  • And will spawning as the defender mean you might take over a ship that is already engaged and sailing around in the battle instance, or do defenders only spawn while the battle instance is loading?
  • Any chance these raids will be 5th rate and below only, please (or different rates depending on ports)? Would make them more interesting in any case. I miss @Fellvred's "Small Battle Challenges". This could in a best case scenario work out to be somewhat similar to those fights.
  • I imagine most of these raids will be arranged by the raiders with timezones and diversions and so on that they are mostly PvE, but probably with some random player defenders joining and being targeted instantly because their sailing is going to be extremely easily distinguishable from NPC defenders. 
  • Will defenders spawning in suffer losses, like crew loss or officer lives loss from being sunk in raid defence? Or will it be practically lossless for defenders?
  • Will raid defenders have a guaranteed numbers advantage to "make up for" likely being mostly NPCs? 

I do imagine that these raids will often be a group of 10-15 organised players with teamspeak, tactics and organisation, against any number of random pubbies and noobs with no teamspeak, no coordination, and also no idea if the allied ship sailing next to them is a player or an AI.

However I also see potential for this as a way to get random players and pubbie clans involved in RvR, and to spread the RvR contents around a bit in the population and not just to the "elite" RvR players. There is a chance that these raids, both offensively and defensively will appeal mostly to pubbie clans, and that the RvR players we have now will keep fighting the Port Battles and territory conquest we have now, with their/our "elite" fleets of the same 25 players every day. While pubbie clans will take care of the raiding against enemies until they get enough practice to join (or replace) the "elite" RvR fleets.

I have expressed some scepticism of this feature, but I do also see some potential in the raids for getting more players involved and spreading the game's content around more. So more players have something to enjoy and not just the "PvP elite". With the currently suggested implementation of raids I do however think that it is important to give this more of an economical impact than a military RvR impact. That players who want to do port battles do not have to personally do raids all the time in between to get those conquest markers to enable them to create or join port battles.

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10 hours ago, admin said:

But there is a PVP twist. Raids can be invaded. 
Any player of the allied nation who owns the port can join the instance and take a NPC bot ship helping them defend the port from the raid.
 

Sounds really interesting  - am I right in thinking if the defending side has 10 AI ships and then 10 players join to defend the port   that those 10 AI ships will then be controlled by the players?  (rather than an extra 10 ships joining). If so will this mean those players won't lose ships/crew by doing this?

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2 hours ago, Rikard Frederiksen said:

From how I read it you assume control of an NPC ship already in the raiding instance, instead of sailing your own ship. For all the complaints about this being more PvE, I think its actually a rather good move in implementation - people can raid and still have to fight their way in, with the danger of players taking over AI ships to create a rather heated PvP battle (greater danger the closer you are to popular shipping lanes), but even if other players don't join it means that it isn't a walkover for people to 'farm' these City Key things if no-one is able to defend.

I'd be interested to see this in action.

I read this the same way.  (Keep in mind, admin's first language isn't English.)

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11 hours ago, Donnerschock said:

 And yes, an Indiaman is the perfect ship to fight PvE, raid the Port and sail back to homeport, kappa!

Well, we should be allowed to load cargo in your fleet's hold now, so bring an indiaman in your fleet, order him to leave at battle start and escort him back to port with the loot?

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This sounds great! How would an instant "Jump to PvP action"-button not promote PvP? I think the ship names should change to player names tho, i like to chat with my opponents while were sinking each other :(

 

Is there any info about the defending force before the raid? Because i dont wanna come with 5 ships and find 20 enemies, or come with 20 and find 5... The rates matter a lot aswell. There needs to be at least some sort of prediction and balancing to get a fun and mostly even battle.

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13 hours ago, admin said:

But there is a PVP twist. Raids can be invaded. 
Any player of the allied nation who owns the port can join the instance and take a NPC bot ship helping them defend the port from the raid.

Does this mean the player joining the defense will captain an NPC ship already in the defense, not their own ship? i.e. they arrive in an all gold Victory, but defense fleet is a bunch of grey frigates, and when they join they now captain a grey frigate.

Edited by William Doggett

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9 hours ago, Wraith said:

Did I misread something or did they not say that players can jump in to make these PvP events? If it works in this way I think it might be a reasonable compromise for player-generated content that's not necessarily uncontested but can be quite PvP heavy if the nations involved are active at the same time that the raid is generated, etc.  

I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we see how they work in any case, because anything is better than the ridiculous PvE hostility grind we have now.

Thank you! My understanding is that the raid starts...

  • no advance warning
  • a defense force of NPC ships is deployed
  • I'm hoping an announcement is sent to port owning nation that raid is in progress (unconfirmed)
  • defending nation and allies can take command away from the AI, and start controlling one of the defending ships.
  • I assume it is not possible to bring your own ship to the defense of the port. (unconfirmed)

The knee-jerk reaction of always seeing only problems and flaming the devs is getting very very old. Calm the hello kitty down, read it again, look for ways you've misread it, read it again, go away and think for 5 minutes, then write a post with questions and/or suggestions.

IF I were a dev or mod, a few people would be temp-banned just from crap in this thread.

Edited by Angus McGregor
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3 hours ago, sruPL said:

What is so difficult? Most people don't wanna do Small Battles and in OW people don't like even / balanced battles because they can lose duras, officer. Expect most enemies to run from even fight.

 

Well then you should take into consideration that you and your playstyle is a minority and people dont want to play like you wich they would. this would make creating the raiding part of the game to fit your needs even more stupid ... I think now you know your choices including convincing people of your playstyle and if you fail you have other options ...

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Please clarify: are you saying that the only way to join the raid defense is to take over random AI, or can a player arriving from OS join the raid instance from an outer circle in their own ship?

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I see a problem in bigger clans or groups just bringing 1st rates and steamroll port after port. There is just no reason to bring a mix of ships because there is no downside in big lineships. We really need a shallow system in the game. I can't be the only one who bothers this "bring the biggest ship and we win" situation we have.

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15 hours ago, sruPL said:

I talk about this. Players will not be happy to fight 20-25 ships in raid for 1:30h and then find out that their reward is peace of crap worth nothing. Maybe make the reward 3 Snappers for that battle?

But to be honest, if there is more work needed to gain the rewards, the feeling of satisfaction when you finally manage to get it is so much better.

If you make it so Admin give us 3 Snappers people will be upset tho. Just saying.

 

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