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Solving the griefing tagging and screening problem


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Why not just do it by classes? A fifh rate can only attack a fourth rate and a third rate, etc. This would also reflect the reality of the time. Code of conduct didn't allow SOLs to open fire on small vessels. In order to screen some first rates you need a second rate at least.

How about that?

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4 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Why not just do it by classes? A fifh rate can only attack a fourth rate and a third rate, etc. This would also reflect the reality of the time. Code of conduct didn't allow SOLs to open fire on small vessels. In order to screen some first rates you need a second rate at least.

How about that?

Most PBs are with 4th rates. So it wouldnt fix the problem for the most part.

Tell me a situation where the new system would restrict you, except for screening abuse close PBs.

Edited by JonSnowLetsGo
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6 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Why not just do it by classes? A fifh rate can only attack a fourth rate and a third rate, etc. This would also reflect the reality of the time. Code of conduct didn't allow SOLs to open fire on small vessels. In order to screen some first rates you need a second rate at least.

How about that?

Loss of life ? We don't feel it in the game. They knew their fate if they would even think of doing it. And the ones that did... go read what the hell happened, hence why they didn't.

Regarding gameplay...What's the problem of a daring sloop captain to take on a cruiser frigate ?

Or a Lynx taking on yer Indiaman ? See where this is leading ? It makes open ship choice matter more than the meta-game of "must take this ship or else can't tag"

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

Loss of life ? We don't feel it in the game. They knew their fate if they would even think of doing it. And the ones that did... go read what the hell happened, hence why they didn't.

Regarding gameplay...What's the problem of a daring sloop captain to take on a cruiser frigate ?

Or a Lynx taking on yer Indiaman ? See where this is leading ? It makes open ship choice matter more than the meta-game of "must take this ship or else can't tag"

I like the 1 v 1 or 2 v 1 versus a bigger ship - the Surprise and/or Pirate Frigate taking on a SOL.  That is a good challenge.   25 Surprises versus 10 Victories would be a good challenge, but 25 Surprises versus 25 Victories would be a slaughter

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11 minutes ago, Anne Wildcat said:

Won't this lead back to 25 basic cutters griefing a pb fleet?

not if it is done on BR - it would stop it entirely

You should be able to have 3 or 4 cutters against a 4th rate, but 25 cutters against 5 SOL would be about the maximum the formula should allow.

Edited by ElricTheTwo
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Overall this looks to be a good change.

One may not like getting attacked out of port, but if the numbers and BR are similar...you're still getting the fight you ultimately wanted... Or am I wrong in saying all of us creating Port Battles is to get the big fights? either way, you'll be able to sink more ships it seems while still sailing solo from time to time.

Edited by Teutonic
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Looks like a good and promising change.  One questions though:

What is the largest min/max BR ratio allowable in this new formula? 

Certainly there has to be a BR ratio limit so a cutter cant grief a player in a victory by pulling him into battle. 

Edited by Yar Matey
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40 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Looks like a good and promising change.  One questions though:

What is the largest min/max BR ratio allowable in this new formula? 

Certainly there has to be a BR ratio limit so a cutter cant grief a player in a victory by pulling him into battle. 

I think the current 5:1 ratio is decent - a Vic has 600BR, so you need 120BR to attack a solo vic with one ship - That equates to a Surprise versus a Vic - a decent fight.  Or a cutter could take on a Frigate

Edited by ElricTheTwo
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Some problems i see so far.

1 - how dose this help 4th rate battles at all?  People already screen those with 1st and second rates, a curve will not save them.

2 - how dose this help with player involvement?  The bar to be in a screen just became a first rate or a second rate, and in addition rather then small battles to delay or funnel you will simply get in a big battle and never make it to the port. 

                        - An example of my own, french fleet approaches Castries, my screen cant tag them, I undock my fleet and tag fleet to fleet .  Their screen can't stop me as only their PB fleet can tag my PB fleet, there is now no port battle unless they bring a screen large enough to tag my fleet.  so in this scenario the french need more screeners to enter the port not less 

3 - why cant we try raising the BR rate for a tag to 1/3 or even 1/2 first rather then trying whole new system

Also if this is supposed to "stop gerifing" i really hope cutters are not going to be able to tag in vics because that is the height of gerifing 

I would really like to know the formula rather then an exaggerated example though before i make a final Judgement

Edited by Augustus Charles Hobart H
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3 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

I think the current 5:1 ratio is decent - a Vic has 600BR, so you need 120BR to attack a solo vic with one ship - That equates to a Surprise versus a Vic - a decent fight.  Or a cutter could take on a Frigate

a surprise vs a vic is not a decent fight unless the surprise is asleep at the wheel or the vic is good at demasting 

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1 minute ago, Augustus Charles Hobart H said:

a surprise vs a vic is not a decent fight unless the surprise is asleep at the wheel or the vic is good at demasting 

heh heh heh - yup...  the price you pay for venturing out in a vic on your own...  my kind of odds..

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This at the very least seems better than the current system. Using a curve, most one on one engagements will be possible, whereas a large group of ships will need a BR much closer to their own BR to engage.

I would imagine the curve would be something like this

Total Target BR is 600. You need 150 (same as current)

Total Target BR is 2000 you need 800 (25% more than current)

Total Target BR is 6000 (a 4th rate fleet) you need 4000 (60% more than current)

Total Target BR is 12000 (a 1st rate fleet) you need 10000 (or maybe even 12000). (75% more than current)

So no longer can the equivalent of 6-7 1st pull in 25 1sts. This seems good.

Is the circle any smaller by the way ? the current circle covers about a 1/3rd of the new world ?

Really the only whole left by this is 1st-3rds screening 4th rate battles. Well it just means the 'attack' screen needs to be similarly comprised.

Combined with 3 dura 1st rate change on test bed and this will be less of a problem.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jeheil
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3 minutes ago, Pagan Pete said:

I foresee a problem… If not carefully controlled, small fast pyrate ships will NOT be able to attack anyone with two fleet ships… Which would extremely suck!

I did have the impression NPC br doesn't count anymore.

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captains

in my opinion, the whole system is going to be to difficult in some point

i rather see a ow where there is no br (and throw it overboard)

and free to attack 

i rather see a protected area, for beginning captains (till captain level) where they have help from the coast guard in that area(just like eve in HS ((space police/coastguard just when they are pulled in to battle give them 2 ai ships to his side with devastating fire power))) when  they are attacked by a experienced captain, outside that area it is free to attack. 

when there is a pb there is a circle area (the event circle)where the br circle is in count with restrictions (that's fine,just to even the ods)

the psychological effect when a captain attacks a ship(outside protected nooby erea) and sees it can't do anything because of the restrictions of the game will drive them away

make it a mens/womans game not a kiddy game (in that context I also see rather 1 dura ships where the upgrades are not attached to the ship but to the builder or the captain)

and a other thing > where the powder monkeys (a upgrade) are also a part of the crew management system instead of drop(upgrade) in a mission game

it must make sense, just to give you my 1 cent

 

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21 minutes ago, rediii said:

They will not even notice that because they are not stupid enough to attack 6 ships when they have only 1. And even if they will possibly get the fight because the 6 ships will be happy to kill him.

This system is avoiding stupid fights on the lower BR side in large numbers, that's all.

 
 
 

when i am attacked in a vic vs a other vic 

and i sink

and  afterwards is see him again in my 3 dura vic again, outside the port putting a finger to my vic (because he want to get away in his basic cutter or scout)

i must have the ability to kill his basic cutter pod to....(its called revanche)

and in this system it is not possible (that will drive people away, that's called kitty stuff, its about the captain, not the ship )

 

or letter of mark (kill mails ) must be put in place.

 

Edited by Thonys
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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Ofcourse it's possible. Well you will not sink a basic cutter in a victory but you can enter the combat if you are beside him in the OW.

I don't see your problem here. Guess you missunderstood the Br ratio curve.

 

and that is my problem with it

he can get away in a basic cutter (he pulls a finger to me, as a captain, because his basic cutter is invulnerable )

the solution to that is: give me a letter of mark and that problem will be solved then

but if not, i dont like the whole scenario.....

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Sounds like it has good potential, let's try it out.

- How will this work out in situations with the 50-ship cap on battle instances? E.g. if you try to screen 25 victories with 30 pavels, or say 40 constitutions, are they unable to tag a fleet because they didn't bring 25 1st rates?

- Will AI fleets be factored in? One of the ways I've gotten around their continuous presence is to attack people regardless of the AI fleet and just try to end the fight quickly before they catch up, not being able to tag at all would erase that option.

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13 hours ago, Bearwall said:

Nobody likes a showoff :)

 

It's not a showoff, just information that admins are not first to come up with the idea. But their idea is more broken.

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