Armory shop replenishment

[Draluigi]

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering : how does the shop replenish its number of buyable guns between each turn/battle exactly? Does it increase by a fixed amount for each rifle, or is the pool set to a fixed number for every turn/battle? Basically, should I stock up on repeaters, rifled muskets and sharpshooter rifles as soon as I can, or will the guns that I haven't bought in turn one be available and added to those that appear later?
 

Thanks a lot,

Antoine

Edited February 13, 2017 by Draluigi

[GeneralPITA]

It's a fixed amount, resets after each grand battle. There appear to be no variables to modify aside from  difficulty level. 

Get 'em while they're hot.

At the very least, buy up those good cannons and Fayettevilles early (sabres too).

Don't waste your money on spencers and henrys. They're junk. A shame, really. 

[Mr. Mercanto]

2 hours ago, GeneralPITA said:

It's a fixed amount, resets after each grand battle. There appear to be no variables to modify aside from  difficulty level. 

Get 'em while they're hot.

At the very least, buy up those good cannons and Fayettevilles early (sabres too).

Don't waste your money on spencers and henrys. They're junk. A shame, really. 

I learned that lesson the hard way :(. The Spencer is seriously underpowered...

I must remember to complain about that sometime...

[jimcarrel]

So, at this time in development, is there a list of "junk" armaments laying around, it can sure be disappointing to  implement a gun-running plan for the building up of good armaments for later use in campaign and then find out you were scammed. 

[Draluigi]

Thanks guys for the replies. It would be really cool if brigade fire was more varied. Say a mass volley to start and continuous fire at will after that, and a button that would toggle volley fire only, in case you want the morale shock. The repeaters should have a huge advantage in free fire im guessing. A rectangle of 500-2000 men firing these things constantly was probably a constant firework!

Edit : that would probably also mean modifying the reloading mechanism and transform it into a fire rate stat, I guess it's quite a huge change

Edited February 15, 2017 by Draluigi
Second thought

[GeneralPITA]

2 hours ago, Draluigi said:

Thanks guys for the replies. It would be really cool if brigade fire was more varied. Say a mass volley to start and continuous fire at will after that, and a button that would toggle volley fire only, in case you want the morale shock. The repeaters should have a huge advantage in free fire im guessing. A rectangle of 500-2000 men firing these things constantly was probably a constant firework!

Edit : that would probably also mean modifying the reloading mechanism and transform it into a fire rate stat, I guess it's quite a huge change

Continuous fire might be realistic but will alter tactics hugely. It's all about getting off your volley first. 

[Hitorishizuka]

On 2/13/2017 at 5:35 PM, GeneralPITA said:

Don't waste your money on spencers and henrys. They're junk. A shame, really. 

Out of curiosity, what bad results have you witnessed with those two? And is it only those two or any of the shorter range very high ROF infantry weapons? I've not yet had enough time looking at their results in multiple scenarios yet but I've not yet seen them performing poorly personally, at least for Henries...I think.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Hitorishizuka

[GeneralPITA]

7 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said:

Out of curiosity, what bad results have you witnessed with those two? And is it only those two or any of the shorter range very high ROF infantry weapons? I've not yet had enough time looking at their results in multiple scenarios yet but I've not yet seen them performing poorly personally.

In a side by side with Fays and Henrys it's no contest. Given their similar availability and price it's an easy choice. Henrys fire too slowly and Fayettevilles are deadly accurate.

There truly aren't enough Spencers for me to make this comparison. I tend to play CSA lately. 

[Hitorishizuka]

27 minutes ago, GeneralPITA said:

In a side by side with Fays and Henrys it's no contest. Given their similar availability and price it's an easy choice. Henrys fire too slowly and Fayettevilles are deadly accurate.

There truly aren't enough Spencers for me to make this comparison. I tend to play CSA lately. 

Interesting. I've actually seen a difference at least in the ranged cavalry level between the higher range vs higher reload ones that the higher reload models fire noticeably faster and for comparable kills. I'll try to drill down and watch my infantry blocks a little closer when I'm fielding multiple units wielding each. The Fayetteville are definitely murder but I still don't have enough to outfit everyone, so it's really more a comparison of Henry/Spencer vs 1855.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

7 hours ago, Draluigi said:

Thanks guys for the replies. It would be really cool if brigade fire was more varied. Say a mass volley to start and continuous fire at will after that, and a button that would toggle volley fire only, in case you want the morale shock. The repeaters should have a huge advantage in free fire im guessing. A rectangle of 500-2000 men firing these things constantly was probably a constant firework!

Edit : that would probably also mean modifying the reloading mechanism and transform it into a fire rate stat, I guess it's quite a huge change

Yes. Allowing Fire by Company/Squad/File would be helpful. if another brigade is closing, and they are waiting for your to expend your one volley, you can hold them at bay firing by infantry sections. It keeps up a constant harrassing fire, but reserves the volley for the charge. 

However, it would be a bitch to implement in the game. The beauty of this is simplicity; make it too complicated and you lose the elegance. It's like trying to add 'Buck and Ball' to 1842's to obtain a shotgun like blast at very short range before charging, like the Irish Brigade was wont to do. It's modeled by the game as part of the melee component of the weapon, not a round selection. 

[Draluigi]

11 hours ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Yes. Allowing Fire by Company/Squad/File would be helpful. if another brigade is closing, and they are waiting for your to expend your one volley, you can hold them at bay firing by infantry sections. It keeps up a constant harrassing fire, but reserves the volley for the charge. 

However, it would be a bitch to implement in the game. The beauty of this is simplicity; make it too complicated and you lose the elegance. It's like trying to add 'Buck and Ball' to 1842's to obtain a shotgun like blast at very short range before charging, like the Irish Brigade was wont to do. It's modeled by the game as part of the melee component of the weapon, not a round selection. 

haha so 1842s have high melee stats due to buck and ball ? That's funny is that the case for all smoothbores?

[vren55]

5 hours ago, Draluigi said:

haha so 1842s have high melee stats due to buck and ball ? That's funny is that the case for all smoothbores?

Seems so. It's possibly a game thing b/c I'm not aware of them being more melee friendly historically.

[Wandering1]

I was under the impression that the higher melee stats for the cheaper weapons was derived from the fact that the guns were heavier (and thus, hurt a lot more when you club someone with the rifle butt).

M1842s were 10 lbs, whereas the 1855s and the 1861s were 9 lbs. Depending on what the Farmer's muskets were supposed to be modeled after, like the Hawkens, those are between 10-15 lbs according to the wikipedia.

[Hitorishizuka]

11 hours ago, vren55 said:

Seems so. It's possibly a game thing b/c I'm not aware of them being more melee friendly historically.

My guess is it's almost entirely just game balance. Early rifles with bad firearms related stats get good melee stats so if you wanted to use a melee brigade, which will take heavy casualties, you don't need to throw away expensive rifles to do so. It's also partially a catch-up mechanic to let players in bad situations get back into the game by being able to outfit some rookies with bad rifles and throw them into melee and hope for the best instead of trying to shoot it out fruitlessly.

Gun weight shouldn't matter when everyone's got bayonets on.

[Wandering1]

11 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said:

My guess is it's almost entirely just game balance. Early rifles with bad firearms related stats get good melee stats so if you wanted to use a melee brigade, which will take heavy casualties, you don't need to throw away expensive rifles to do so. It's also partially a catch-up mechanic to let players in bad situations get back into the game by being able to outfit some rookies with bad rifles and throw them into melee and hope for the best instead of trying to shoot it out fruitlessly.

Gun weight shouldn't matter when everyone's got bayonets on.

Well, we ARE making the assumption that Farmer Joe bothers to buy a bayonet for farm work.

[Nuvag]

Are you sure the shop will provide more weapons if you buy the available ones before a great battle?

I tried this two times an it did not seem to make an difference so i stoped doing it.

[Hitorishizuka]

On 2/14/2017 at 8:22 PM, GeneralPITA said:

In a side by side with Fays and Henrys it's no contest. Given their similar availability and price it's an easy choice. Henrys fire too slowly and Fayettevilles are deadly accurate.

There truly aren't enough Spencers for me to make this comparison. I tend to play CSA lately. 

 

On 2/14/2017 at 8:52 PM, Hitorishizuka said:

Interesting. I've actually seen a difference at least in the ranged cavalry level between the higher range vs higher reload ones that the higher reload models fire noticeably faster and for comparable kills. I'll try to drill down and watch my infantry blocks a little closer when I'm fielding multiple units wielding each. The Fayetteville are definitely murder but I still don't have enough to outfit everyone, so it's really more a comparison of Henry/Spencer vs 1855.

FWIW I might suggest taking another look at Henry rifles. I went back and tracked the performance of the unit I had them on in my last battle and they did just as well as the Fayettevilles did and in fact outperformed them once it came to shooting at basically defenseless targets. The fire rate may have gotten changed on them?

[Aetius]

22 hours ago, Nuvag said:

Are you sure the shop will provide more weapons if you buy the available ones before a great battle?

I tried this two times an it did not seem to make an difference so i stoped doing it.

It's not that the store will provide more, it's that the previously available weapons disappear if you don't buy them. In other words, if you want to build up a stock in your inventory, you have to buy everything in the store before the next grand battle. This is critical for rare weapons like the Whitworth TS, for example - otherwise, each store iteration gives you too few rifles to equip a unit big enough to survive.

[civsully1]

On 2/18/2017 at 0:50 PM, Aetius said:

It's not that the store will provide more, it's that the previously available weapons disappear if you don't buy them. In other words, if you want to build up a stock in your inventory, you have to buy everything in the store before the next grand battle. This is critical for rare weapons like the Whitworth TS, for example - otherwise, each store iteration gives you too few rifles to equip a unit big enough to survive.

Ok so as a new guy trying to sort this all out....what purpose does "available weapons disappear" serve?

[civsully1]

And as a request from new guy to experienced play testers and players.....Would really like a chart or listing of the best "game" weapons to outfit your; Infantry, Skirmishers, Cav, and Artillery. There is a post about artillery pieces that I thought was excellent for the newer player. Thanks in advance!

[Nicolas I]

1 hour ago, civsully1 said:

And as a request from new guy to experienced play testers and players.....Would really like a chart or listing of the best "game" weapons to outfit your; Infantry, Skirmishers, Cav, and Artillery. There is a post about artillery pieces that I thought was excellent for the newer player. Thanks in advance!

There is a weapon guide on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=839842511

 

[civsully1]

Thanks Nicolas I... I was unaware of this resource so again many thanks!

Kind regards

civsully

[Hitorishizuka]

1 hour ago, civsully1 said:

Thanks Nicolas I... I was unaware of this resource so again many thanks!

Kind regards

civsully

Using the classifications in the listed guide (which look roughly correct at an eyeball glance)...

Infantry: Best rifle you can up to Improved on your best brigades, combine division with them into a large brigade of rookies so the combined number hits the 2500 max. Repeaters are actually very good if you can keep the unit in combat and flanking a little closer than max range, they're not as good if you're in a max range stand off fight.

Skirmishers: Whatever combo of best range + high accuracy you can afford. Unlike infantry, skirmisher fire range actually is affected by the range of the weapon you give them, so the closer range repeaters are generally unsafe unless you are very good at taking advantage of flank shots and have perfect timing go in and out appropriately.

Ranged Cavalry: Repeaters are deadly now in 0.75 IF you have the micro to keep the unit in combat to take advantage of their very fast fire rate. Otherwise what are classed as the Shooting Carbines are fine.

Artillery: see other topic, but basically skip Parrotts, James, Whitworths and aside from that heavier caliber is generally better.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Hitorishizuka

[civsully1]

20 hours ago, Hitorishizuka said:

Using the classifications in the listed guide (which look roughly correct at an eyeball glance)...

Infantry: Best rifle you can up to Improved on your best brigades, combine division with them into a large brigade of rookies so the combined number hits the 2500 max. Repeaters are actually very good if you can keep the unit in combat and flanking a little closer than max range, they're not as good if you're in a max range stand off fight.

Skirmishers: Whatever combo of best range + high accuracy you can afford. Unlike infantry, skirmisher fire range actually is affected by the range of the weapon you give them, so the closer range repeaters are generally unsafe unless you are very good at taking advantage of flank shots and have perfect timing go in and out appropriately.

Ranged Cavalry: Repeaters are deadly now in 0.75 IF you have the micro to keep the unit in combat to take advantage of their very fast fire rate. Otherwise what are classed as the Shooting Carbines are fine.

Artillery: see other topic, but basically skip Parrotts, James, Whitworths and aside from that heavier caliber is generally better.

Thanks for taking the time to answer the question Hitorishizuka and for the helpful content!

[Draluigi]

Thank you indeed good people