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PVP1 - Diplomacy Summit (Sat 1/28 15:00 GMT)


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18 minutes ago, Lord Vicious said:

Nightflips are not the issue they where happening all the time the difference is that 2 months ago denmark have enought nerds on as everyone else for defend a port from 15 USa, now it does not, and that have nothing to do with nighflips.

 

The issue is that beside PB, there is nothing else to do in this game , and right now  The pop is not enought for allow nations to be able to defend in a different timezone since they struggle to have 1 fleet in their prime.

 

420 ppl at saturday 24.00 Eu time. Thats the issue      when a sandbox  go under the minimum population amount for keep the rvr activity going on it go snowball down. pretty quick.

The moment 1 nation fail to bring 25 to defend is death sentence in the current pb system. 

I honestly agree with you here, but I think everyone is starting to see or already know the problem here. The point is now to find a way to improve or fix it WITHOUT alienating a portion of the player base and also making the foundation so that the new system works with large population servers too. Here lies the problem, and hopefully people are starting to realize how difficult it is to find a good solution :P.

I've brought up Eve Online waaaaay back in the past but they do have a time window system in the game, but the time window "length" is determined by how much you "use" the system or area you live in. not sure how to put it in NA terms but it would be like a 2 hour window in the regions next to the US capital, but as you go further away from your "homeland" the regions are used by less folks, and so the Time window for the port gets bigger - ultimately giving a better oppurtunity for others to come in and take regions that aren't "used" often.

Edited by Teutonic
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A couple of ideas....

Problem: night flips. (also known as port battles fought during someone else's prime time.)

Solution: 1) add incintives to play as a nation with a lower Active population. Maybe the incintives take the form of extra experience, gold, or even some new currency like valor points.
 Solution:  2) Allow players to maintain multiple characters of different nations on the same server. 
Solution: 3) Mercenaries.
Allow players to be "hired" to fight for nations with low population or those fighting port battles at off peak times. (Perhaps the nation doing the hiring has to provide the ship or something?)

Problem: low server population. Naval Action is an in depth game that is still in development! There is no manual - it takes time and research to play this game. We need more returning and new players.  

Proposed solution: Perhaps if we spent more of our time helping people learn to play, some of the current challenges we face would be alleviated. From my limited observation (200 ish hours in game) two thirds of the active players are among the highest levels of the game . 

I propose an in game option on the home screen or missions page that would allow players of any nationally to help players who request assistance. How disheartening is it for a new player to go to the open world in the beginner area, flounder around until you finally find a mission/ battle only to be sunk. It's a hard introduction to the game.

 Let's ask the game developers for a new, in game, mechanic to help new players learn the game and level up.

Thank you to all the players who are working to improve a game we all love. 

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

I honestly agree with you here, but I think everyone is starting to see or already know the problem here. The point is now to find a way to improve or fix it WITHOUT alienating a portion of the player base and also making the foundation so that the new system works with large population servers too. Here lies the problem, and hopefully people are starting to realize how difficult it is to find a good solution :P.

I've brought up Eve Online waaaaay back in the past but they do have a time window system in the game, but the time window "length" is determined by how much you "use" the system or area you live in. not sure how to put it in NA terms but it would be like a 2 hour window in the regions next to the US capital, but as you go further away from your "homeland" the regions are used by less folks, and so the Time window for the port gets bigger - ultimately giving a better oppurtunity for others to come in and take regions that aren't "used" often.

More pop is the best solution since there will be more usa-ozzy in every nation. POP is the issue.     When Sorry took carslile we where mainly and usa timezone clan and ppl where complaining we hold port at usa timezone, but brits where able to field 60-80 ppl even in that timezone  problem was this 60-80 not where as good as main eu timezone brit fleets :P so the timezone was only an excuse. (there was 600-700 ppl on during carslile time-window wich back that was used as an excuse,    when we have playd in last  6 months with a same amount pretty well i think )

PPl jump on timezone as excuse any time they can for excuse their failure.              USa where attacking at usa timezone 1 months ago as 3 months ago the difference is dane coalition got enought for  hold them back and win. Now that they dont  and SUDDENTLY IS A PROBLEM.  

So timezone  are not the issue , lack of pop is, wich relegate more and more each community to be able to hold only stuff in their prime and concive other player timezone as a major evil becouse they cant handle it anymore.

 

Relegate certain nations purely by their timezone is a bad idea

1) We dont know if there will be more usa or eu playng usa on release, so their timezone can change

2) It will make impossible for usa to expand vs Eu

3) IT will be impossible for eu to take usa territory

4) Artificially divide the map into timezones, will create segregation 

5) Plenty of usa in brits and other nations who will never have a pb in their timezone

6) Any forced mechanic in a sandbox is doomed to fail 

The behavior of the dane coalition not helped the other communities to fill pity for them now. And thats another factor that not help  to make ppl be inclined to find a resolution that now will accomodate only one coalition. their..    i am sorry to say that but the should have think ahead instead take advantage as much as they could when they could.. 

Unfortunately the key factor is the pop, and no meeting or agreement will fix it, the ball are on the hand of the devs 

Edited by Lord Vicious
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==> Suggestion to be criticized & adjusted together in order to possibly Test it assuming it could be coded by Devs.

The below proposal might offer a solution for NIGHTFLIPS as well as ALLIES limitation for PB events:

 

Number of Primetime per one NA day?

Primetime to sort out PB from xx:xxh to xx:xxh ?

Maximum number of PB per faction & per day ?

 

New Hostility system proposal:

1 PB is built up with 3 steps

 

Step 1: BLOCUS PHASE day one, during Primetime window.

  1. Attacker must exchange 1 “blocus order note [BON]” against a targeted Enemy regional port. (similar to old system), from that moment the PB process starts, it is announced & it enters In PB list.

  2. Each “BON” is only useful for the player that collected it (only activated by him from any national Faction port). The BON owner and his ship cannot be identified by any other players (neither enemies nor allies/nationals) in open world and in PVP battle.

  3. The BON is active for only 40min, that time is important as it will allow limited war projection from friendly/national Ports.

  4. The blocus area can be visible in open world & map by global player base, it’s a large circle around a selected attacked port.

  5. In that circled area attackers & defenders have PVP, (screening fights).

  6. The BON owner ship must reach blocus area (can be sunk accidently before).

  7. From the instant the BON owner ship penetrates into the defense circle zone, it is publicly announced “Blocus event started”. This Blocus phase last 40min.

  8. A maximum attackers war ships must manage to enter the Regional port gate (Crossed swords as it is today) during that 40min Blocus phase.

  9. However, a Minimum BR must be reached by attackers to allow PB process to carry on = ex. .3500BR depending on Port size type.

  10. During that first PB process 40min + 40 more min the whole defender Faction cannot be attacked by any other Factions, (means the Defender Faction hostility is entirely closed for a maximum of 80 min). The hostility switch on again as soon as Blocus phase has ended, all enemy Factions can launch PB process against that same Faction and same region.

  11. However, from Step 1 starts to Step 3 ends, that targeted region hostility remains closed for the Faction that launched the attack.


 

Step 2: 24h COOL DOWN PHASE.

  1. Minimum attacker BR has been reached.

  2. Attacker must exchange 1 “Port attack order note |PAON]” against the Blocated Enemy regional port (it validates the PB for day two). Information updated into PB list.

  3. Each “PAON” is only useful for the player that collected it (only activated by him from any national Faction port, like old flag system).

  4. The attacker ships that entered the PB are kept in a specific “attacking War queue” in the enemy port (the attacker list is frozen during the cool down). This “attack war queue” grid will allow players (without his ship) to leave/enter by TP to/from any friendly port or capital.

  5. The PAON owner must be included in that “attack war queue”.

  6. During cool down phase the frozen “attacking War queue” BR is shown in PB List, the PB defense organization is therefore relying on BR data (not on ship numbers).

  7. Whatever the BR of attackers have managed to enter the Port, the defenders will have the possibility to even that BR or to present a lower BR fleet of their choice.

  8. During cool down the defenders must choose PB defense participants and enter them in a “defense war queue” that will remain adjustable and the defense war queue list will become final (frozen) instantly after 24h cool down (PB start).

  9. The “defense war queue” grid will not allow exceeding the attacker BR value.

  10. To avoid spying! it will be recommended to finalize the Defense war queue list at the latest moment.

  11. Only after PB starts the “defense war queue” will be viewable by attackers it will reveal the number of ships defenders have decided to show for the PB.

  12. Also, (in case the PB occurs in low active player numbers timing) defenders will be able to drop purposely their defense fleet to a Minimum of 5 ships (that attackers will have to match), if defenders cannot enter these 5 ships into “defense war queue”, the battle will proceed anyhow with 5 attackers. In case of zero defenders the battle is won.

 

Step 3: PORT BATTLE day two, during Primetime window.

  1. If PB has been validated by PAON owner before end of cool down, then follows:

  2. Port battle start” is publicly announced.

  3. The “attack war queue” players can get into PB setting. This means that the PAON owner player must be included & active into that war queue and takes his mandatory slot into the PB attack fleet, in all PB cases including a minimum PB situation with 5 ships.

  4. The PB starts after 3min PB setting (as it is today) with matching numbers of belligerents & presence of the PAON owner.

  5. During these 3min setting the attacker team must choose the participant (whatever the BR) in order to match the defense ship numbers (by ticking into ship/player list) that will be revealed only at this time, if attacker team still exceeds ship number after the 3min time, then the ticked list is not taken into account and attackers number will be automatically & randomly selected always preserving the maximum BR for attackers (including PAON owner).

  6. This mandatory player/ship selection (by choice or automatic) means that players that participated to Blocus are not guaranteed to participate to Port battle.

  7. In case, for any reason, the attackers cannot show a minimum of 5 active ship/players out of the war queue after the 3min, the battle is won by Defenders (without fighting).

  8. In case, for any reason, the defenders cannot show 1 active ship/player out of the defense war queue after the 3min, the battle is won by attackers (without fighting).

  9. The PB is fought same way as it is presently. It lasts same time.

 

The possibility for Defenders to purposely reduce Fleet size down to 5, allows that system to involve both sides ALLIES to help on screening Blocus phase ONLY. No ALLIES are allowed into Port Battle (into Attack or Defense War queues) but only the 2 Factions Attacker Vs Defender.

 

Conditions that can make PB abort:

  1. BON owner cannot penetrate blocus area within allowed 40min.

  2. PAON owner cannot enter targeted port (Attack war queue list) within allowed Blocus phase 40min.

  3. Attackers have not added minimum BR into Attack war queue.

  4. PAON has not validated the PB during cool down period.

Conditions to win PB:

  1. Battle are fought as today

  2. Defenders win automatically if Attackers are not showing enough active selected players (to match with Defense number).

  3. Attackers win automatically if defenders are showing zero ships into PB.

  4. Defenders win if PAON player is not "active" in PB setting phase.


 

THE WAY TO COLLECT “BLOCUS OR ATTACK ORDER NOTES” : To be defined

  1. Can be collected only by players with maxi Craft XP and/or maxi Rank level

  2. BON & PAON could ramdomly appear (like Blue Prints) when crafting an exceptional ship, or they could be coming from loot of Epic events or similar.

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The big problem over all other is the low population.......... All other problem will be covered if we had 2500 people as LV said..... "   he difference is that 2 months ago denmark have enought nerds on as everyone else for defend a port from "......... he said......

But today not........ we are a small population and all problems exploit on our face...........

My purpose is not about PB......... Devs must clarify timers and PB's............

We need to group the few players that we are as it is ...... an option would be only to be able to warm up and conquer a region bordering our own region ......... Try to make a kind of "battle frontiers" .. .......... try to concentrate the population and facilitate the pvp ...........

In addition, create events in that border for players of both sides and allies ............ this should give a fast and close pvp.

Sample of mission: "Tomorrow, at 19:00 a fleet of 25 transport ships will arrive to la habana, They will cross this zone before (Round zone like actual event in front of Islamorada ). As many ships arrives to La habana, more points for spain , as many ships are sunk more points for the enemy.

4 or five of these missions on different frontiers of the map, can give us one easy and fun afternoon of pvp.....

It could be a good emergency measure while other problems are solved.......

Edited by Alvar Fanez de Minaya
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So, if we were to leave things as it is and assume that it is to be resolved just by having a high population again, what countries were ever consistently able to field a EU timezone PB fleet, and/or an AUS timezone PB fleet, and/or a US timezone PB fleet?

How many at once, and for how long (e.g. 2x EU PB fleets until summer, 1x EU PB fleet after summer) ?

And I'm not talking about people taking time off or staying up to achieve it, I'm talking about actually having ~25 active PB fighters from those timezones.

- For the Swedes, my guess would be that we've never actually been able to consistently field more than 1x EU PB fleet (boy I wish we had two against the Dutch), and never had enough players from other countries to cover any other timezone.

What about the rest? For example I think the French at some point used to have enough Chinese players for a single Aussie timezone fleet when we were fighting them, though not sure if that was consistent or had EU players filling the ranks as well.

After all, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Edited by Guest
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22 minutes ago, Aegir said:

So, if we were to leave things as it is and assume that it is to be resolved just by having a high population again, what countries were ever consistently able to field a EU timezone PB fleet, and/or an AUS timezone PB fleet, and/or a US timezone PB fleet?

How many at once, and for how long (e.g. 2x EU PB fleets until summer, 1x EU PB fleet after summer) ?

And I'm not talking about people taking time off or staying up to achieve it, I'm talking about actually having ~25 active PB fighters from those timezones.

- For the Swedes, my guess would be that we've never actually been able to consistently field more than 1x EU PB fleet (boy I wish we had two against the Dutch), and never had enough players from other countries to cover any other timezone.

What about the rest? For example I think the French at some point used to have enough Chinese players for a single Aussie timezone fleet when we were fighting them, though not sure if that was consistent or had EU players filling the ranks as well.

After all, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

I said many times that There's no possible that european players and american players play together at the same time........ So, we need two servers, is the only way to have at least one server working............. But this is a problem for the devs..... they must decide......... Meanwhile, i propose this to try to reagrupe players and avoid this finally death while we wait........

Edited by Alvar Fanez de Minaya
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3 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

Unless you don't know about it :D there are already 2 servers: PVP1 and PVP2... and PVP1 is still the biggest with the most diverse population... while pvp2 is not. So we know that it doesn't really work to have 2 servers.

Two servers with two different timers of course............. Not the joke that we have today.....  :D

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8 hours ago, Alvar Fanez de Minaya said:

I said many times that There's no possible that european players and american players play together at the same time........ So, we need two servers, is the only way to have at least one server working............. But this is a problem for the devs..... they must decide......... Meanwhile, i propose this to try to reagrupe players and avoid this finally death while we wait........

I completely agree that the only real solution is regional servers, which is why the "Oh we just need more players, then more players from other timezones will join X nations and everything will be fine" statements bother me, so I was putting those claims to the test.

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Here's the thing though. New mechanics are all nice and well- but they more or less require a shake-up of the current alliances.

Why would I, as a British Captain, /ever/ wish to ally myself with the opposing faction?

Edited by Crowley
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2 hours ago, Aegir said:

I completely agree that the only real solution is regional servers, which is why the "Oh we just need more players, then more players from other timezones will join X nations and everything will be fine" statements bother me, so I was putting those claims to the test.

Average players don't think like that. They join if the game is playable and fun. The ladder is individual, though and a everlasting platform for debate.

NA is the wargame where battles are hardest to get. Fix this somehow. IMHO.

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7 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Average players don't think like that. They join if the game is playable and fun. The ladder is individual, though and a everlasting platform for debate.

NA is the wargame where battles are hardest to get. Fix this somehow. IMHO.

This I agree. Regarding the wargame part I cannot but compare it to other conquest system where any individual can contribute with whatever activity.

One of the "rules" I've been studying the most ( regarding my own tabletop board ) is the way to achieve the same "victory" effect by different means.

While combat is the muscle, the rest must be be the sinew and bones. From trade wars, to supplies, to politics.

Sailing about for prolonged times without combat happens often and is not kind for the action junkies ego shooter kinds which in that regard are relegated to Conquest and Port Battles - which obey to schedules which obey to organized fleets which often demand presence in voice comms

So back to the design board. How to engage everyone of whatever playstyle and not only your, or his, or hers, or my playstyle but a whole no matter where we are in the world no matter what nation we play.

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1 hour ago, Crowley said:

Here's the thing though. New mechanics are all nice and well- but they more or less require a shake-up of the current alliances.

Why would I, as a British Captain, /ever/ wish to ally myself with the opposing faction?

Because it's not you who is allied to the opposing faction, it's the nation, and government. You are roleplaying as a navy captain and you do what the king says. Democracy is still a swear word in this age. Don't like that arrangement? The game has a historically accurate solution: take The Black :)

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Just now, Louis Garneray said:

As we all know there is no silver bullet, not one design for all.

Take for example Elite Dangerous: everybody can contribute to any goal set by the game and choose to play it on PVE or PVP server as their action on either server are connected.

All participants will receive something if they contribute enough to the community goals.

So the bright side: everybody can participate. The bad side? The game instances are limited to small number of players (which is a bummer especially with the size of ED map :D). 

True but the multi instanced ( depending of the players connections btw as they are grouped by the leader or by package drop handicap ) takes care of it even with the capital ships and the warzone goes on until solved so everyone in every TZ can play.

Back to NA. The road to conquest, the moving of the invasion fleet, the response of the opponent, the final show down. It should be, at least, a progressive chain of events on its own and open to all if they so wish it.

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55 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Average players don't think like that. They join if the game is playable and fun. The ladder is individual, though and a everlasting platform for debate.

NA is the wargame where battles are hardest to get. Fix this somehow. IMHO.

I didn't quite understand how your point related to having regional servers, mind elaborating?

 

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17 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Read above. It was response to a post that stated that more servers was needed in order to get more players in. I think the problems lies somewhere else.

Well, it was my post that you quoted, which had nothing at all to do with adding server to get more players in but rather to opt for regional servers to cope with timezone issues.

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