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Intrepido

Hostility or Flags?

Choose your best option  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. Choose your best option

    • Hostility generation
      6
    • Flag
      17
    • Both: Hostility for PB, flags for raids.
      48
    • My proposal is...
      2


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Due to the new announcement of the changes in the RvR conquest mechanics I really need to know if it is true that the community really wants the old conquest system.

 

Edited by Intrepido

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Guest

How about instead of an "either/or", we make a list of pros and cons of each system and see if it would be possible to merge the best aspects of both into a single one?

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4 minutes ago, Aegir said:

How about instead of an "either/or", we make a list of pros and cons of each system and see if it would be possible to merge the best aspects of both into a single one?

I hope devs are trying something like that, but after reading the "removing hostility" remark I can imagine that keeping hostility in game in one or another is not that simple. Although I do like the hostility generation concept, current implementation makes it unnecessary and annoying formality.

Therefore, I am curious to see what exactly that 2.0 flag mechanics would be. With current PB mechanics (larger PB access area), region and not town-level PB, and with sensible attack cool-down time, flag mechanics might turn to be a simple and acceptable solution. Exploits are still of great concern to me, so looking forward to some news on that flag system 2.0.

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21 minutes ago, Aegir said:

How about instead of an "either/or", we make a list of pros and cons of each system and see if it would be possible to merge the best aspects of both into a single one?

Edited.

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 I dont really mind what system we eventually will have but i still stick with this:

Quote

 

I dispise the old flag mechanics for one simple reason:

Port timers: 20:00- 22:00   , flag gets pulled at 21:59, flag gets planted at 22,59 , if there would be a port battle it would end around 00:30.  That is 4,5 hours waiting and guessing every evening. Far from perfect. Fun for a while, routine and boring for the most after a certain while.

 

The only reason i liked the flag system back in the day was the feeling to chase down the flag carriers/ screening. But truth be told, defenders already have it pretty easy as is. 

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BOTH!

purchase flags->raid

Raids generates hostility, how much depends on what's done during the raid.

100% hostility triggers a port battle.

Edited by Salty Dog PVP1
  • Like 3

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Preaching to the quire at this point.  I have suggested this many times. 

Also, we need more than raids to generate hostility.  We need different types of hostility generating pvp events raids, blockades, and destroy the tower missions. 
You pull a flag for a raid, blockade, or destroy the tower mission, then sail to the port where the flag was pulled for and WHALAH, tuns of PvP galore!  Just like a port battle with all the screening and nations gathering forces together in the area where the flag was pulled.

Unfortunately though, it looks like the devs are running out of money so they are going to revert to a more simple solution, the flag system for port battles.  They dont even respond to us in these forums anymore.  :(

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You have great ideas Yar.

 

On the last phrase:

- Kickstarting models, and maybe deal a handout to freelance modelers, is beyond Naval Action that we bought.

Let's leave the financial aspect out of it because it is false information.

 

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14 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

- Kickstarting models, and maybe deal a handout to freelance modelers, is beyond Naval Action that we bought.

Let's leave the financial aspect out of it because it is false information.

 

I understand that its speculated/rumored at this point.  But if the devs are hurting for money, I wish they would be upfront about it.  I have no problem buying an expansion or paying into a kick starter if it gives us more great content.  The Devs have delivered way more than what was promised, I get that, but we are still not quite there yet with a playable game that works for everyone.  I feel like the devs are 90% of the way to having a great game.  Open world and ship models is probably the most time consuming part of building this game.  Now, we just need stuff to do other than chase each other around in the PvP zone and chasing player trade ships around. 

1) Give us Tournaments

2) Give us Lobbies to organize friendly competition where losses do not count and no gold is obtained like dueling

3)  Give us more Open world PvP content. 

I am itching for some great PvP to be had in this game!  If I have to pay more to get these things, so be it.  Make it an expansion or something.  Or sell us paints for ships.

Edited by Yar Matey
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They ain't hurting for money. They simply have to focus on finishing the game. We are always asking for more ships and forget the rest (?).

So for those of us eager to always have more ships a KS sideshow seems a reasonable one :)

I am personally against the arenas in a game that has nothing to do with it. Same idea was tested in other games in the similar vein and were promptly a failure or never popular enough. I mean, players don't come to NA because it is world of age of sail.

Regarding a store with paints, sure but if anything not now but on release. ( read again very first phrase ).

 

Sorry for the offtopic.

My proposal is...

Raids are just a squadron attacking and sacking a town. It has nothing to do with conquest but it hurts.

Without hostility I hope for Admiralty to work and let points be exchanged to form War Fleets and ticket a place in.

So any one player has to achieve things in game and not simply mindlessly grind.

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

They ain't hurting for money.

How do you know?  Unless you have run a business, I don't think you have a grasp how quickly you can go through millions.  

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They never said anything regarding that subject, therefore it is all false information and very much out of place.

Let's keep up the pace :) and not get bogged down.

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Raids are just a squadron attacking and sacking a town. It has nothing to do with conquest but it hurts.

Without hostility I hope for Admiralty to work and let points be exchanged to form War Fleets and ticket a place in.

Raiding could increase hostility as well.

Still, I think that flags should be there to capture other ports than the regional capital.  Capturing those ports and holding those, would give permanent hostility.  If you have 2 from 4 ports (50% or more), you could start a port battle to regions capital once per day, till captured.  The other side could try to capture port back from you, and deny your daily attempt.  And flags to capture other ports, like those were before.

Raiding, I only like the idea if it is part of pirate mechanism.  But this would kinda be something totally different then.

Well, just an idea, without too much thinking, definitely could have issues included.

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Made a quick draft of a merged conquest mechanic while doing a pros/cons of the systems we've tested so far. Nothing fancy, what we really need now is something that we think could really work and doesn't require a complete overhaul.

For the very short version, just read the bold text. For the long one, the gray italicized text explains it further.

---------------------

Battle reports are used to buy an attack, similar to the latest dev proposal about admiralty points for activities.

Battle reports are generated as a physical tradeable good whenever you defeat anyone anywhere in the OW and in PBs. The BR of the ship sunk in the report is its value.

Hostility basis.

- Rewards OW PvP as a whole instead of just in designated event/hostility areas. Without the enemy being able to completely deny you by not showing up (short of not sailing whatsoever) there might not be a need for other methods (e.g. PvE/supplies) to accrue points.

- Rewarding PB performance as well, regardless of a win or loss, contributes to your ability to stage an attack/counter-attack of your own.

- Non-involved parties may support either side by contributing their own reports for a cause.

- Rookie zone existence means that rookies have a safe haven if they feel targeted, rookie zones generate no points. 

- Same player sinking the same player more than twice generates no more points for a time period, limits alt farming - if circumvented by an alt being sunk by several players they increase the risk of all those players getting caught cheating and punished in large numbers. Each report may contain information about parties involved in generating it to trace such activities.

- Buying reports from others makes staging PBs a money-sink.

Redeeming a report gives that player its points. A player who holds sufficient points can purchase an attack - will mostly require other players to contribute reports to someone else. The attack is staged for a defender-determined time slot 2 days after it is purchased.

Flag + Hostility basis.

- Pooling reports is the in-game method used to determine who decides what to attack, where consensus is king. Effectively you're taking credit for the combat reports handed in, which in turns has the admiralty entrust you with staging an attack.

- It will be significantly more difficult for a lone player to stage these attacks, inhibiting trolling/spam/abusive attacks by lone players as seen with flags)

- Gathering reports is no longer tied to when the attack occurs, so that we wont end up with situations such as not having PBs on high-activity weekends because people weren't being as active during Thursday/Friday.

When an attack is purchased the day is determined by the attacker but the timing is randomized within the defender-determined 2 hour timer slot.

Flag + Hostility basis.

- Reduces the effect mass/decoy/last minute attacks if the timing isnt guaranteed. May benefit either side depending on the time.

Pre-PB timer cooldown inside the battle instance is increased to 10-15 minutes.

- Time leeway promotes heavier screening rather than a single minimum-BR tag, but doesn't spend as much of people's time as a 1-hour sail.

- If able to see the scene of the battle (and using the spyglass) this time would mostly be used to organize, discuss tactics and observe the layout, latecomers wont have that luxury.

The cost of staging an attack against enemy regions adjacent to your own regions is cheaper than regions that are further away.

Flag basis.

- Reintroduces the importance of having real borders, buffer regions and strategically placed regions instead of having a whole lot of "useless" regions as with the hostility system when you can attack anywhere at all.

- Mitigates the need for the attack cost to be dialed in perfectly - if you want an attack for entertainment, there's a cheap option to guarantee a fight, if you want it for strategic reasons, there's a pricier option.

- Capturing more expensive but strategic areas has a compounding effect since the regions adjacent to it will now be cheaper to attack.

PB is enterable until all slots are filled. The point system within the PB will now let the PB finish if insufficient attackers make it in.

- People can still enter the PB late and get a fight, entering later is progressively worse but if they're good enough they can still pull a win.

- In case of multiple attacks by a numerically superior opponent, if a PB elsewhere is won quickly through good defense that fleet may be able to enter an undermanned PB that is still being contested - numbers increase the odds, but ability may outweigh it.

Pirates can enter any PB (credit to Daguse) 15-20 minutes after it has begun.

- Gives pirates the potential to act as a mercenary force, however their chances are somewhat constrained by the time loss.

----

Under consideration:

Whether/How to work raids into it. Successful raid might result in each player getting a battle report to stage an actual assault if there's little OW PvP going on.

Whether reports should only be tradeable with pirates and allies, or across alliances as well. Doesn't make sense to take credit for a battle against your own or allies, but it may make for interesting gameplay (e.g. dissidents from one nation providing battle reports to the enemy).

OW players may fight even more conservatively (if that's even possible...) with the gain now provided by their loss.

----

Disclaimer:

None of this attempts to resolve the issues of vastly different timezones fighting eachother.

 

Now poke some holes in it ^^

Edited by Guest
Regional attack cost added.

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It doesn't matter which system just as long as PvP is the major component in the hostility or flag system of initiating a PB on a PvP server.  The monotonous PvE grind has been a server pop killer and is only suited to carebears.

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Just now, Wraith said:

I think raids should be low cost PBs as you've described them but non port/region flipping. And I like the idea of creating "fronts" again, but without removing the ability of surprise PB generation far away from the front. To implement that I would just make it harder to run up hostility in ports farther away from already owned, regional capitals?

Indeed that could work. The proximity of a region to closest allied region could have a simple cost multiplier for the points required to stage attacks, making 'fronts' easier but leaving room for pricier strategic attacks.

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We had this kind of similar topic already, to rework hostility system.

As already stated by developers, it is going to change, and should be tested.

So why again same question, in another topic?

Btw, its a bit short-sighted kind of question here..Hostility or Flags.

 

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33 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Raids sense for Pirates.  Why nationals would raid a port?

To destroy enemy ships at the docks and reduce enemy strength ? Just out of the top of my head, Raid on the Medway wasn't about conquering but about destroying the ships at dock there.

 

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14 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

To destroy enemy ships at the docks and reduce enemy strength ? Just out of the top of my head, Raid on the Medway wasn't about conquering but about destroying the ships at dock there.

 

I suppose that could make sense.

Or maybe you could make a blockade.  Causing penalties for the port + hostility.

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3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

To destroy enemy ships at the docks and reduce enemy strength ? Just out of the top of my head, Raid on the Medway wasn't about conquering but about destroying the ships at dock there.

 

Hethwill,

If you were referring to the Battle of Midway in WW2, then I would respectfully disagree with you.

The Imperial Japanese forces did have an invasion fleet that intended to land at Midway.  Midway did not have docks for any sort of major shipping.  I think that the largest ships that were based there were PT boats.  Small freighters could run supplies in from time to time.  The Japanese did intend to draw out the US fleet from Pearl Harbor by threatening Midway, and to an extent, their plan did work---they did draw out the US fleet.  Fortunately, the US Navy got the better of them.  ;-)  

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