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Yar Matey

The Imbalance Between Different Rated Ships:

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True, but the forum qq happens regardless. It would be nice to give captains the tactical challenge of having to think 'what is my mission, what am I likely to be doing before I get to the next port, am I in danger of being drawn into a large fight? What do I need to store in the hold to meet my potential needs?' 

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Let em whine. Any game that isn't totally 'pew-pew' arcade has limited ammo. I see the devs erring on the side of more than historic capacities to lessen the pain anyway.

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Yes, an interesting dynamic for traders as well. Especially Indiamen that are likely to see combat. 

Edited by SirSamuelHood

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1 minute ago, Hodo said:

I would love to see ammunition limitations placed on the ship, where I have to choose between cargo space or ammo.   

who would ever choose cargo space on a non trader ship? will be pretty one sided

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33 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

who would ever choose cargo space on a non trader ship? will be pretty one sided

A sea rover. So it can take what he can carry with increased hold space without having to sail the prized ship.

Just as an example. I did use it extensively while playing pyrate and raiding. Sink the prize and fill the raider hold.

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2 hours ago, rediii said:

 

who would ever choose cargo space on a non trader ship? will be pretty one sided

Come, my dear rediii. Where will I store copious amounts of fish during my long sea voyages if I didn't reserve some space for cargo? A man must eat! 

Edited by SirSamuelHood
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So a guy boards you.  He goes in turtle mode and defends the whole battle, until you disengage.  At the same time another ship rakes you.  Question, is this realistic?

 

Damn, I have to say I hate boarding in this game more than anything else, and also how you initiate boarding.  You ram the other guy, and click G, you both drop your sails.  Wait, why the hell I just insta dropped my sails?  Ok, that lynx is pulling my 1st rate, what the F those 30 men are pulling my 1st rate?  Lesson to be learned for bodybuilders.  Everything related to boarding is so shitty that even "No Man's Sky" is amazing compared to it.

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Just now, Hodo said:

Boarding is being reworked... "soon".

And if a Lynx boards your 1st rate, just use grenades and watch his crew vanish in the first round.

I know it is been reworked, still I hate the current one a lot.

Lynx should not be even able to board a 1st rate, if asked from me.

You sail a ship right next to another and board.  They stay in defense and let their friends rake.  Like wtf?  Seriously?  Was this actually happening in real life?

Rake crew damage is hard to balance.  There will be many things that will show up sooner and later, that need balancing because of it.

 

I recommend btw. that tactic.  Just freeze the other guy by rage boarding it, let your friends rake.  100% success.  Would be nice if you would abuse that as much as possible.  I want an angry mob to wipe this shit.

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38 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

So a guy boards you.  He goes in turtle mode and defends the whole battle, until you disengage.  At the same time another ship rakes you.  Question, is this realistic?

 

Damn, I have to say I hate boarding in this game more than anything else, and also how you initiate boarding.  You ram the other guy, and click G, you both drop your sails.  Wait, why the hell I just insta dropped my sails?  Ok, that lynx is pulling my 1st rate, what the F those 30 men are pulling my 1st rate?  Lesson to be learned for bodybuilders.  Everything related to boarding is so shitty that even "No Man's Sky" is amazing compared to it.

If you get boarded by a Lynx it's your own fault.

 

Last time I got ganked I was sailing a slow-as-balls indiaman. Half a dozen heavy frigates tried to ram-board me for half an hour as I simply ran for the coast, making small course adjustments. Half the time I was getting T-boned from two sides while pushing a third ship out the way. Eventually I caught fire and blew up, taking two enemies with me.

Silly physics? You bet! But rage-boarding by light vessels is NOT a gameplay problem.

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5 hours ago, Hodo said:

I would love to see ammunition limitations placed on the ship, where I have to choose between cargo space or ammo.   

 

5 hours ago, SirSamuelHood said:

Yes, an interesting dynamic for readers as well. Especially Indiamen that are likely to see combat. 

I was thinking about this and remember admin making a statement about ammo limits somewhere. Sure enough from the Forthcoming Shipbuilding Changes thread:

Definitely will be done

  • For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality
  • If they want to have additional slots for upgrades they will have to sacrifice space or increase weight
  • If you take more crew you might need to reduce hold
  • Cannons and ammo and powder supply will affect cargo hold and will reduce ship performance if you overgun it

Under consideration

  • If you want to take 200 shots per gun instead of normal supply to battle you might need to sacrifice some space (this will solve cases of light ships unloading 10000 rounds in a battle into a first rate)
  • You can determine the number of repair kits you can take for the vessel and affect the weight.
  • Unstable designs - add to much sails (to increase speed) your ship might capsize in some cases
  • Other experimental ideas like 1 durability ships and other changes

 

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30 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

 

I was thinking about this and remember admin making a statement about ammo limits somewhere. Sure enough from the Forthcoming Shipbuilding Changes thread:

Definitely will be done

  • For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality
  • If they want to have additional slots for upgrades they will have to sacrifice space or increase weight
  • If you take more crew you might need to reduce hold
  • Cannons and ammo and powder supply will affect cargo hold and will reduce ship performance if you overgun it

Under consideration

  • If you want to take 200 shots per gun instead of normal supply to battle you might need to sacrifice some space (this will solve cases of light ships unloading 10000 rounds in a battle into a first rate)
  • You can determine the number of repair kits you can take for the vessel and affect the weight.
  • Unstable designs - add to much sails (to increase speed) your ship might capsize in some cases
  • Other experimental ideas like 1 durability ships and other changes

 

I'd definitely like to see them try all of this, even if they end up not permanently adopting some of it. 

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I still think that the relation between SoL and smaller ships must be rebalanced. It is too easy to take down the big ships with smaller, agiler vessels. There is a reason why frigates in historical battles stayed away from SoL fights. Even when for gameplay reasons not the full historical difference can be shown, it should be bigger then now.

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32 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

I still think that the relation between SoL and smaller ships must be rebalanced. It is too easy to take down the big ships with smaller, agiler vessels. There is a reason why frigates in historical battles stayed away from SoL fights. Even when for gameplay reasons not the full historical difference can be shown, it should be bigger then now.

I'd still say it isn't quite as easy to take down larger ships if they actually are sailed correctly. What never stops surprising me is how bad a lot of people are at understanding the tactical aspects of combat in this game. For every player I run into who sails larger ships and understands how to actually sail it I swear I run into a 100 who don't. What I won't argue is that smaller frigates are much more forgiving when it comes to sailing and foresight in maneuvering. Yes, it can get difficult in a larger slower turning vessel when being attacked by 3-4 smaller faster turning ships but even then all hope is not lost. I wholeheartedly believe that a huge problem for many players is that they only take easy fights....where they have a clear advantage in numbers, ship class, or both. It is because of this that they really do not advance in terms of skill or ability. You learn a lot more sometimes losing a fight than you do from a roflstomp. 

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For me the imbalance lies in the fact there is no mod on the market to protect crew or to reduce crew loss or even repair crew damage, So the line ship has to destroy the smaller ships sails not once but twice because of repair, it has to destroy its armour once and then again when he repairs. But crew loss is unpreventable by mods or repairs and so is almost certain death for the bigger ship, because it has more crew to loose and also needs more crew to function, everything is stacked up against the bigger the ship at the moment.

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4 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

I still think that the relation between SoL and smaller ships must be rebalanced. It is too easy to take down the big ships with smaller, agiler vessels. There is a reason why frigates in historical battles stayed away from SoL fights. Even when for gameplay reasons not the full historical difference can be shown, it should be bigger then now.

 

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3 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

I'd still say it isn't quite as easy to take down larger ships if they actually are sailed correctly. What never stops surprising me is how bad a lot of people are at understanding the tactical aspects of combat in this game. For every player I run into who sails larger ships and understands how to actually sail it I swear I run into a 100 who don't. What I won't argue is that smaller frigates are much more forgiving when it comes to sailing and foresight in maneuvering. Yes, it can get difficult in a larger slower turning vessel when being attacked by 3-4 smaller faster turning ships but even then all hope is not lost. I wholeheartedly believe that a huge problem for many players is that they only take easy fights....where they have a clear advantage in numbers, ship class, or both. It is because of this that they really do not advance in terms of skill or ability. You learn a lot more sometimes losing a fight than you do from a roflstomp. 

Why waste time to develop tactics or ''skill'' when you can and are used to bring overwhelming numbers, it's not some balanced arena game where skill would matter. Quite amusing that they put a lot of energy into combat system and the whole potential of it is flushed down the drain by the nature of open world gankbox. Also doesn't help that if people moan loud enough on forums then devs actually give in and throw some handhold perk/mod at the crowd that supposedly helps to counter some ''problem'' which most likely is just lack of experience and could be countered by player-made decisions.

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Ball rakes are too good imo, current ball rake casualty numbers should be transferred to grape rake (and then perhaps increased a little).

The reason I say this is that there is no longer decision making and risk taking in play when setting up a rake.
It used to be a higher risk/reward maneuver (dare I say "skill") where you had to reload grape and subsequent dps loss against ship sides for a good result and when you got outpositioned while doing so you were left with useless ammo against the enemy's broadside. Today you have 1 ammo type that does it all and good rake results can happen by accident when the enemy presents his stern even though you never anticipated it nor forced the enemy into it.

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Reality vs meta of the game

 

Reality

2 frigs 38 cannons vs  a victory

1 volley of the vic well placed and one of the frig is out   and this if we not count the fact that 2 frigs in reality would not even dare to engage a firstrate

 

meta of the game:

Incredibly resilent ships+repair etc

The vic can even double triple volley one of the frig at best he bring it to 30-50% the frig lose 50? 100 crew if vic is incredibly lucky, frig repair, now  both frigs are on the stern of the vic, end of the game they can stern camp forever if vic and frigs player are equally competent.  Game over for the vic.

 

The game was much more realistic pre may 2016 where for real a victory was able to onevolley a cerberus and 2-3 volley a trinco , now a frig in na liveoak stronghull etc have values of 70-80 armor like a 2nd rate.         Armor hp/tickness got boosted during last 9 months by 70%  while cannons pen/dmg still the same.    Demasting is very hard also so is not that a vic could demast the frig incoming for slow them down, becouse even if he demast they repair and again once they in stern camp position game over.

to give you an idea back in may a conny got 5400hp liveoak buildstrenght and an armor value of 60 if i recall...... now  a conny have what 8k and 70-80 armor liveoak stronghull ?  a trinco was at 4000 hp     now even a 4th rate have 10k and the armor of an old vic

 

Edited by Lord Vicious
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Balancing rakes basically mean...

Strong Hull -> Smaller rake damage

Weaker Hull -> Greater rake damage

The same thing applies to the masts.

 

Also agree that the regionals and stacking everything -> This really sucks.  Simply idiotic thing if asked from me.

Connie is fast when running with the wind.  Surprise is fast when sailing upwind.  But wait!  Surprise has all speed bonuses so it is now faster than your Connie.  You have to stack speed as well to be faster with your Connie (especially you MUST HAVE Pirate Refit).  This created "builds" which I do not like at all to be honest.  Would like to still see that a Connie is a Connie and a Surprise is a Surprise and not some stacking shite.  Months ago I wrote about the same subject.  Dev told that they know the issue and they will tune the values like before.  These are the tuned values?  Like multiplying the values 10x?  This really sucks.  Like really-really sucks.

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This games developed in a direction where you have two strategies. If you are in the bigger, less agile vessel you have to take down the enemy's sail or you will be raked to death. If you are in the smaller ship you rake the bigger one, just have to stay clear of his broadsides.

 

For me a naval battle should be mainly taking down the sides of the enemy's ship with few chances of demasting and stern raking. But both shall only be elements of the battle, not the main purpose.

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