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NERF THE DAMN GRAPE SHOT FOR SHALLOW SHIPS!


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nerf the damn grape shot on shallow ships! grape. idc about ur damn realism of fire grape through port holes. if you want to have a game that's fun then nerf this retarded playstyle of whoever can fire the first round of grape at a ship with full armor wins. dumb crap like this is why people are leaving the game like crazy. you have known about it for at least 15 days and have done nothing. fix the crap or disable the shallow water pvp event. unless you intend to have this be the meta. if that's the case let me know so I can uninstall the game.

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Well first thing stop hugging them and you won't get your deck cleared. I all ways keep a distance and let my Carros put big holes in them while they try to shoot my sails than I move in and grape.  By time I"m done they are sinking any way cause crew is in shock.  I love it when folks try to come in to grape me cause I pick the wind and let them roll that belly up at me to put leaks into them.   

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4 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Devs intend to put crew on sails/rigging too and I hope they will. Other than that, grape is absutely fine. You want to avoid grapes? Keep distance, so easy. It looks like a player with cannons complaining that in close combat with carros he loses... Are carronades the new meta? Kappa

 

 

so if I don't want to loose all my crew to grape while I have full armor then I need to play with longs only. and why doesn't this work with bigger ships. this tatic only works on small ships  a grap shot on two vics side by side with full armor doesn't kill 500 men.

ur grape formula works fine on bigger ships it just needs to be tweeked for the smaller ships

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To be fair to KoC, I did a 1v1 with French HR in the shallow PVP zone.  Both of us were in similar ships, myself in an old build HR him in a new one..but Agile hull.  Both carros.  I went for round shot on the hull and he immediately went for grape.  He was firing grape into my sides and after maybe 2-3 passes I had lost 30ish crew.  Luckily with the hull damage I had been doing my grape was obscenely more effective once I ended up switching to grape and it made up the difference quick.  In the end I think he sunk with 19 crew and I had 39.  

I controlled the wind in that fight and it was very seldom if at all he was managing to get full grape broadsides across my deck (enclosed deck mind you) with almost no armor down and still killing 10ish crew a pass.  While I'd normally agree with the crew loss if I was in a niagra or merc, a heavy rattler is a considerably different ship.

Overall I just really don't like the grape to win style of fighting that shallow boats have become.  A night or 2 before my 1v1 occurred we took on a similar in numbers pirate group of about 5-6 and most of them in niagras.  We utterly de-crewed them in minutes and if it wasn't for an almost immediate fireship we wouldn't of even been close to having losses.  The niagra is a fun ship to sail, or used to be.  Not anymore.

Edited by Christendom
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The damage system strives to be realistic, at least in some elements.
Open deck ships and small vessels are very vulnerable due to their historical crew locations. Changing that might change gameplay completely for other vessels as well. 

What are the suggestions? Can you explain?

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As crew morale and rigging damages are not modeled in game, 1vs1 have become mostly focused on crew loss and sails damages.

 Dealing broadsides is nearly marginal, at least outside of port battles. Grape open deckers, stern rake bigger ships, even chain are less effective at slowing and reducing mast turn than crew damages, at the end, usual cannonball broadsides is maybe the less viable approach, moreover with the splinter nerf.

I don't really know how to rebalance that without turning/agility nerf, or letting you turn while on brace.

 

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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. Crew on rigging / sails

Grapping ship to 0 crew is often too easy. Also sail hits should kill some crew too, unless player has turned off sailing

Crew have no reason to be in the rigging in combat. Possibly a few while tacking, but that's it.

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53 minutes ago, admin said:

The damage system strives to be realistic, at least in some elements.
Open deck ships and small vessels are very vulnerable due to their historical crew locations. Changing that might change gameplay completely for other vessels as well. 

What are the suggestions? Can you explain?

I understand that realism is a factor that yall strive for. However sometimes realism sometimes has to be sacrificed for quality of life/gameplay. you guys know this and have done it with several things already. teleporting cool downs and things like that.

all I am suggesting is making the armor/hull strength of the ship more of a factor into grape damage on the smaller vessels. killing 1/3 crew of the ship should only be possible on skill shots such as a rake which is one of the hardest things to do in the game. but broadside to broadside grape killing 50/130 crew is game breaking. I enjoy the small ship battles. really gives the players a chance to enhance their skill at the game. but the grape fests is not fun for anyone.

I do apologize for the anger in the initial post. I was winning the hull battle clearly until I lost 50 crew in one grape shot.

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This is how it has always been in Naval Action, this isn't anything new.  You should be able to win the grape battle over the armor battle if you do it right.  We do not want to take that away.

Instead, I think that the recent change in crew damage was too much.  Drop it down 25% and let's try that.  Please don't nerf it so heavy though that we are back to very little crew damage.

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Simple changes to rebalance ship to ship combat:

1-grape shots simulate too many projectiles, make them 9 instead of 12, or add canister shots for ultra short range.

2-allow rudder turning while on brace

3-bring back hull thickness to more historical values, not the buffed ones we have now. So cannonballs become more viable even outside rakes.

Next step:

-Few riggings hitbox slowering mast turn to a % and weakening masts

 

But other than that if your opponent manage to get close and get a view on your deck leaning to him, grape should be a viable way to cripple your crew, your choice to brace or surrender if you can't get out, but normal he gain advantage at this point. IMO.

 

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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8 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Muskets on top parts of the ship, for raising and dropping sails, for turning masts... For sail repairs too. Funny guy in nest telling the distance etc. There are many reasons for cre to be not on deck but on top parts of riggings etc. Just being graped to 0 is stupid in my opinion.

There would be sharpshooters in the tops, but this isn't featured in-game. Sailhandling and bracing yards can be accomplished from deck. No one does elevated rangefinding with black powder cannon. Sail repair should be contextual.

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4 minutes ago, sruPL said:

Not sure what it means, but as I've seen, people are needed on rigging to drop or raise mizzen sails etc.

Only when furling and unfurling. For momentary speed adjustments in battle all sails can be clewed up by pulling on ropes from the deck.

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3 hours ago, Christendom said:

Overall I just really don't like the grape to win style of fighting that shallow boats have become.  A night or 2 before my 1v1 occurred we took on a similar in numbers pirate group of about 5-6 and most of them in niagras.  We utterly de-crewed them in minutes and if it wasn't for an almost immediate fireship we wouldn't of even been close to having losses.  The niagra is a fun ship to sail, or used to be.  Not anymore.

They where going for the big guns or rage bording?  Seems they didn't learn to keep there distance, but I do agree when I see a Niagra in a fight the first thing it gets is the decked clear with grape. I hit one the other day with my HR and cleared 55 crew and sent him into crew shock.   He fell behind and wasn't very effective to the team so when he got back intot he fight I hit him again with only like 20 crew lost.   Than I boarded him.   Yah some of these guys need to learn they need to keep there distance with ships like that. I use one from time to time in a group as the dedicated boarder cause of it's high crew size.  But that is only when we need one.  

2 hours ago, maturin said:

Crew have no reason to be in the rigging in combat. Possibly a few while tacking, but that's it.

I get asked how my sails stay so high in fights for so long and I tell them "BATTLE SAILS."  It's there to be used, stop trying to fight every fight at max sails going full speed.  That and I find it helps make more accurate shots.   But yah there are still some crew in the rigging, but it's not a lot.  Some one has to man them so you can turn and adjust your speed and trim.

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4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where going for the big guns or rage bording?  Seems they didn't learn to keep there distance, but I do agree when I see a Niagra in a fight the first thing it gets is the decked clear with grape. I hit one the other day with my HR and cleared 55 crew and sent him into crew shock.   He fell behind and wasn't very effective to the team so when he got back intot he fight I hit him again with only like 20 crew lost.   Than I boarded him.   Yah some of these guys need to learn they need to keep there distance with ships like that. I use one from time to time in a group as the dedicated boarder cause of it's high crew size.  But that is only when we need one.  

 

I agree, but the whole point of a niagra would be those 32lbers.  Which means close combat.  

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