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Confederate Campaign -- Kinda Impossible


Lazamataz

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3 minutes ago, Jamesk2 said:

How can it be possible? I think it's a bug, because every single post/vid I've seen about this battle put the number of Union way less than Confederates (make sense since Confed is the attacker). Even when you add the 25% from Hard mode it's Union still only slightly outnumber...

He's talking about Antietam. For hard the numbers seem about right. 

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I should comment that for my wins of Malvern, I wasn't using 3 corps. My campaigns are using essentially minimum # of corps required to even enter the battle. Just my little predilection to not touch Farmers or Re-bored Farmers with a 10-foot pole because of how inferior stat-wise they are compared to M1842s.

 

Edited by Wandering1
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2 hours ago, Wandering1 said:

I should comment that for my wins of Malvern, I wasn't using 3 corps. My campaigns are using essentially minimum # of corps required to even enter the battle. Just my little predilection to not touch Farmers or Re-bored Farmers with a 10-foot pole because of how inferior stat-wise they are compared to M1842s.

20161229143505_1.jpg

Hi just wanted to say don't necessarily rule out re-bored farmers yes their stats aren't great but they can be very effective if used in the right situation.....for example equiping a 2 chevron unit with them...and then in battle using them to flank that extra damage right up close on the flank can rip enemy brigades twice their size to shreds you don't need many just a couple used when the situation is right...and watch the carnage lol :)

 

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7 minutes ago, eduncan0028 said:

Hi just wanted to say don't necessarily rule out re-bored farmers yes their stats aren't great but they can be very effective if used in the right situation.....for example equiping a 2 chevron unit with them...and then in battle using them to flank that extra damage right up close on the flank can rip enemy brigades twice their size to shreds you don't need many just a couple used when the situation is right...and watch the carnage lol :)

 

I find that using melee cavalry or sniper skirmishers to crush flanks is a lot less casualty intensive than using infantry for melee. Melee cavalry being a lot easier to level up to 100 melee, considering their massive melee bonus in comparison to everything else later (due to enemies upgrading to M1855s, which reduce their melee efficiency).

As of current until cavalry lose their invulnerability from meleeing in trees, melee cavalry are a lot easier to break defensive formations on forested hills because there's no minimum range on cover, like Company of Heroes does. Even better if you have a forest to approach the hill with, and as long as you're not charging into 5 squads, you can break the front and let the infantry walk in, so they don't have to grind it out in the open.

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I'm so close to having a Brigade of either infantry or skirmishers with some of the really high reload/efficiency rifles...probably next map progression on Union. Getting repeatedly flank shots off with those is brutal against morale.

Re-bored farmers are garbage at anything but being in cover at close range against someone who's not in cover so they can use their full damage bonus and not get penalized by accuracy. If you can somehow set that up they're fine but once range and accuracy advantages start coming in from everyone on the enemy have 1855s they're really hard to use.

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16 hours ago, Jamesk2 said:

How can it be possible? I think it's a bug, because every single post/vid I've seen about this battle put the number of Union way less than Confederates (make sense since Confed is the attacker). Even when you add the 25% from Hard mode it's Union still only slightly outnumber...

Anteitam! Wow what a fight.

Well I lost, but I think it's possible to win if I do a few things differently. Until the final wave I was doing very well. The Union were losing three casualties to every one of mine, then the final wave attacked the sunken road, and while I was attending to another part of the battlefield they pushed my men out of the defences. By the time I noticed what had happened I lacked the combat power to counter-attack.

But I learned some valuable lessons for the next attempt.

Mount a stout defence of Nicodemus Hill, here you can really make the Union bleed. The key is massed artillery just behind your infantry line. Every battery you can scrape together.

Instruct your artillery to hold fire until the enemy is in canister range. Long range shooting isn't worth the cost in ammo, and ammo is going to be critical in the later phases. You really need to look after your artillery as I believe well handled artillery is critical to obtaining a victory.

Again massed artillery just behind the infantry at the sunken road is essential to beating off the massive attacks during the second and third phases, every single battery you can spare, also position every spare infantry brigade you can manage to support the sunken road. I lost the battle here because I didn't do this.

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8 hours ago, eduncan0028 said:

Hi just wanted to say don't necessarily rule out re-bored farmers yes their stats aren't great but they can be very effective if used in the right situation.....for example equiping a 2 chevron unit with them...and then in battle using them to flank that extra damage right up close on the flank can rip enemy brigades twice their size to shreds you don't need many just a couple used when the situation is right...and watch the carnage lol :)

 

As confederates, I find that I have no choice but to use re-bored farmers. They're ok as long as the brigades equipped with them are at full strength.

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23 minutes ago, Speedkermit said:

Anteitam! Wow what a fight.

Well I lost, but I think it's possible to win if I do a few things differently. Until the final wave I was doing very well. The Union were losing three casualties to every one of mine, then the final wave attacked the sunken road, and while I was attending to another part of the battlefield they pushed my men out of the defences. By the time I noticed what had happened I lacked the combat power to counter-attack.

But I learned some valuable lessons for the next attempt.

Mount a stout defence of Nicodemus Hill, here you can really make the Union bleed. The key is massed artillery just behind your infantry line. Every battery you can scrape together.

Instruct your artillery to hold fire until the enemy is in canister range. Long range shooting isn't worth the cost in ammo, and ammo is going to be critical in the later phases. You really need to look after your artillery as I believe well handled artillery is critical to obtaining a victory.

Again massed artillery just behind the infantry at the sunken road is essential to beating off the massive attacks during the second and third phases, every single battery you can spare, also position every spare infantry brigade you can manage to support the sunken road. I lost the battle here because I didn't do this.

Perhaps this can inspire you a bit 

 

Numbers went crazy on the beta and col Kelly sent me his save challenging me to win it. 

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53 minutes ago, Koro said:

Perhaps this can inspire you a bit 

 

Numbers went crazy on the beta and col Kelly sent me his save challenging me to win it. 

I'll take a look at this. I did watch your other Antietam video - well played sir.

You might want to look into getting a quieter mouse. The clicking noises are louder than your voice :)

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10 minutes ago, Speedkermit said:

I'll take a look at this. I did watch your other Antietam video - well played sir.

You might want to look into getting a quieter mouse. The clicking noises are louder than your voice :)

Alresdy done along with a more quit keyboard :). No voice in this one though but there are discussions with col_kelly instead. 

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Malvern Hill, I've beaten it twice on regular, never lost it as CSA.  The key is to see beyond the frontal assault and look at the locations in the briefing.  I usually send a brigade down the swampy side.  This demonstration force keeps at least one US brigade opposing them.  The key is to be in sight but out of range.  If they come for you, they are crossing the river, and you are in good cover.  On the far right, I usually send skirmishers and cavalry.  Once again, they draw off a few brigades to face them.  Two small demonstrations, and they split their forces.

Up the middle, mass batteries and take a lot of supply.  Bombard their positions and wait for the second wave.  The second wave artilley should form to bombard the US right, and any cavalry or skirmishers should join the demonstration force on the right, drawing even more US troops to counter them.  Skirmishers and cavalry are useless in a frontal assault anyways.  Form a solid line across their front with reserves behind and a strong assault force on the US right, across from that low wall that sticks out- that is exposed and vulnerable. Then you advance to musketry range. You break through at the low wall on your left  and you split their forces.  You can roll up the line and flank them.  When they readjust to compensate, the cavalry massed in the demonstration force swings forward and overruns batteries/secures the rear victory points.  Bloody, yes.  Painful, yes.  Impossible?  Nope.

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25 minutes ago, DaveWoodchuck said:

Malvern Hill, I've beaten it twice on regular, never lost it as CSA.  The key is to see beyond the frontal assault and look at the locations in the briefing.  I usually send a brigade down the swampy side.  This demonstration force keeps at least one US brigade opposing them.  The key is to be in sight but out of range.  If they come for you, they are crossing the river, and you are in good cover.  On the far right, I usually send skirmishers and cavalry.  Once again, they draw off a few brigades to face them.  Two small demonstrations, and they split their forces.

Up the middle, mass batteries and take a lot of supply.  Bombard their positions and wait for the second wave.  The second wave artilley should form to bombard the US right, and any cavalry or skirmishers should join the demonstration force on the right, drawing even more US troops to counter them.  Skirmishers and cavalry are useless in a frontal assault anyways.  Form a solid line across their front with reserves behind and a strong assault force on the US right, across from that low wall that sticks out- that is exposed and vulnerable. Then you advance to musketry range. You break through at the low wall on your left  and you split their forces.  You can roll up the line and flank them.  When they readjust to compensate, the cavalry massed in the demonstration force swings forward and overruns batteries/secures the rear victory points.  Bloody, yes.  Painful, yes.  Impossible?  Nope.

That's still too crude of an approach. The best way to win is keep the firefight in the centre as attrition, but don't commit to any major attack, then use the reinforcement to swing around the Union right and envelope them from behind.

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Depends on your definition of bloody, I guess.

The screenshot I posted above, I wiped out the entire Union army and never had to cross the west ford or the east bridge. Just penetrate the left wall, and pour everything through the breach since you outnumber the Union troops on Malvern. Most of the union artillery is parked on the forest near the east bridge, so as long as you skirt the artillery while you're penetrating the wall, you won't suffer as many casualties from being in the open while the enemy is dug in.

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1 hour ago, Wandering1 said:

Depends on your definition of bloody, I guess.

The screenshot I posted above, I wiped out the entire Union army and never had to cross the west ford or the east bridge. Just penetrate the left wall, and pour everything through the breach since you outnumber the Union troops on Malvern. Most of the union artillery is parked on the forest near the east bridge, so as long as you skirt the artillery while you're penetrating the wall, you won't suffer as many casualties from being in the open while the enemy is dug in.

I, um...you managed only a 1.3:1 kill ratio and lost half your force. That is exceptionally bloody. Now a fair part of that is probably due to just taking a lot less forces than you were allowed but it's still very steep.

Edited by Hitorishizuka
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6 minutes ago, Hitorishizuka said:

I, um...you managed only a 1.3:1 kill ratio and lost half your force. That is exceptionally bloody. Now a fair part of that is probably due to just taking a lot less forces than you were allowed but it's still very steep.

I would argue it's more like a 1.5:1, because the game doesn't allow units to fight to the last man. It just automatically destroys the squad when they are beyond 75% attrition.

The backdrop of that is that I have 40000 manpower available to reinforce that level of casualties, so losing 8000 of 19k isn't that big of a deal if you ask me.

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Just now, Wandering1 said:

 

I would argue it's more like a 1.5:1, because the game doesn't allow units to fight to the last man. It just automatically destroys the squad when they are beyond 75% attrition.

The backdrop of that is that I have 40000 manpower available to reinforce that level of casualties, so losing 8000 of 19k isn't that big of a deal if you ask me.

Manpower is fairly unimportant unless you're actively going for a max size army. The bigger determination is the $ spent on veterans to rebuild your forces or the wastage of grinding down a Green unit too fast before they've seasoned enough.

Either way, the point was that the criticism levied was that your approach was too bloody. Whether or not you can sustain the losses is immaterial if there are approaches that can achieve similar results but with less losses.

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I will admit, in that run of Malvern HIll, I had plenty of time left over to not fight as aggressively once I breached the wall. In the end, I believe I had around 30 in game minutes left on the timer when I killed the last Union unit.

Whether there was another option that could yield less casualties? Probably, if you used the west side to skirt the artillery again. Most of the casualties were in the green divisions I used to break the left wall.

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So I won at Antietam on the second attempt.

Odd AI behaviour, it didn't attack at all during the first and second phases of the battle. However it did launch a huge attack from the southeast (Burnsides bridge) during the final phase, in conjunction with an attack on the rest of the line. 

I have never seen the AI do this before. Do you guys think it's a bug or just the AI trying something different. It nearly worked after all. 

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