Confederate Campaign -- Kinda Impossible

[fallendown]

I already gave up on the game being realistic at all. I just had the Union AI run out of ammo and charge whore me with like 2 X 2500 man brigades. Watched the union stack 7,000 men into a space barely big enough for 1,000 (Stone Bridge) and fire with the same efficiency as if they were on a parade field. It's pretty evident the Dev's have never been to any of these places and gotten a proper scale.  For instance, in the screenshot below the actual area around the Stone Bridge is really only about 300 yards wide. I know this because I pass it every day on the way to work. That's enough room for 1200 men in line, not 7,000. The golden rule is that a regiment of 400 men in line will have a frontage of 100 yards.

Edited December 16, 2016 by fallendown

[Koro]

41 minutes ago, fallendown said:

I already gave up on the game being realistic at all. I just had the Union AI run out of ammo and charge whore me with like 2 X 2500 man brigades. Watched the union stack 7,000 men into a space barely big enough for 1,000 (Stone Bridge) and fire with the same efficiency as if they were on a parade field. It's pretty evident the Dev's have never been to any of these places and gotten a proper scale.  For instance, in the screenshot below the actual area around the Stone Bridge is really only about 300 yards wide. I know this because I pass it every day on the way to work. That's enough room for 1200 men in line, not 7,000. The golden rule is that a regiment of 400 men in line will have a frontage of 100 yards.

It is a weakness of the game that units can blob like this unfortunately. Probably the biggest one. Doesn't mean it can't be realistic in other areas and ruling it out completely :). 

[KaleRaven]

Fall back a little bit and force them to cross. They are especially vulnerable (negative cover) while on the bridge.

[JaM]

your main problem here is that you moved artillery away... keep that arty there and no matter how many they send, your men will easily hold that bridge... canister is the answer to that situation.

[Lincolns Mullet]

I put the arty to the north in those trees. You get great cover, AI units can't attack you except for their arty, and you get great flanking fire on the entire Union army. Focus on their arty first and then target anyone crossing the bridge. Keep a brigade in the woods with your arty to keep any Union cav or troops coming across there. If necessary turn your arty around to canister fire anyone coming that way.

I dont like keeping my arty on that hill because union arty pick it apart.

[Don't Escrow Taxes]

Like in Koro's video the key is to charge and hold that first cluster of trees on the union right, adjacent to the creek.  Once you accomplish that and set up shop there it can anchor your attack on the center.  It also helps to have two brigades in the trees, down the hill on the union left, to keep the union busy and draw support away from their center.  Malvern Hill is a high-casualty exercise for me but is always winnable if you do this. 

[Karri]

I was thinking about this today, as there are other similar issues. There should be somekind of bottleneck feature, an area where only limiied amount  of men or units can be engaged at one time.Never mind the firing, but 7000 men charging across a bridge don't make a difference if only ten can walk abreast.

[JaM]

9 hours ago, Lincolns Mullet said:

I put the arty to the north in those trees. You get great cover, AI units can't attack you except for their arty, and you get great flanking fire on the entire Union army. Focus on their arty first and then target anyone crossing the bridge. Keep a brigade in the woods with your arty to keep any Union cav or troops coming across there. If necessary turn your arty around to canister fire anyone coming that way.

I dont like keeping my arty on that hill because union arty pick it apart.

but arty should be behind your infantry on top of that hill.. enemy arty usually aims your infantry, and so do those infantry brigades.. and canister shot fired at that blob of men at the bridge would cause them to rout pretty quickly.. I just played that battle and had no problem holding that bridge entire battle. they tried to charge me, but each time got a canister into face and routed back.. 

 

putting arty at that treeline means it cannot fire canister, and it doesnt have advantage of higher ground..

[Hitorishizuka]

I wouldn't really even recommend holding that bridge long term once the Union forces start sweeping in from the north. Spreads your line out too much because you have to now guard north all the way to there to prevent them from getting flanked and there's previous little cover to do so.  By the time forces are pulling back to Henry Hill those guys at the bridge should have left as well.

[Lincolns Mullet]

I've had a lot success putting arty in those trees. They barely lose any men due to cover and can rack up to 2000 kills. Put them on that hill and enemy arty will pick off a lot of your men/cannon. I used to do that before and it does work, but I usually lost my unit or it was severely depleted. Cool that different tactics work though either way.

[General Hancock]

The devs have stated that they need to adjust the scaling and outcomes of battles. I am hopeful that these changes will improve the game.

[General Hancock]

On 12/16/2016 at 4:36 PM, fallendown said:

I already gave up on the game being realistic at all. I just had the Union AI run out of ammo and charge whore me with like 2 X 2500 man brigades. Watched the union stack 7,000 men into a space barely big enough for 1,000 (Stone Bridge) and fire with the same efficiency as if they were on a parade field. It's pretty evident the Dev's have never been to any of these places and gotten a proper scale.  For instance, in the screenshot below the actual area around the Stone Bridge is really only about 300 yards wide. I know this because I pass it every day on the way to work. That's enough room for 1200 men in line, not 7,000. The golden rule is that a regiment of 400 men in line will have a frontage of 100 yards.

Don't give up yet. I'm hopeful the next patch will balance the game and make it more realistic.

[vren55]

I did Confederates on Medium Difficulty and while I won all the battles... l'll agree... Malvern Hill and Gaines Mill were annoooyyiinnnng. Malvern Hill Moreso.

I did it without ANY cavalry or skirmiseshers (b/c I think it's useless, but that's just me), with most of my points (though I have 2 med, 2 logistics, 1-2 training for the starting stats) to politics and army organization. 

Malvern Hill was the most ridiculous battle I've ever had to play as the CSA. I did it (after 2 tries) on my third try by turning the Union's left flank, (the left side of the battle map) and kept pushing. I also put artillery on the hill to the right of the union army to give them a "flanking" penalty but mostly I pushed that flank like as hard as I could (combination of charge and just weight of numbers) stacking as many brigades onto it as possible until I broke through and started slowly rolling the Union army up from the side. It IS possible to break in from the forested area on the Union Army's Right flank, but the open ground after it can be made a killing field by any union cannon hiding in the copse to the below-right of it. 

Gaines Mill was won by another flanking attempt. I avoided the breastworks at first, pushing down int eh Union left (combination of charges and just fire for effect) and once I broke through that breastwork, I moved my brigades up to turn their army's flank, while also assaulting the breastworks. Think of a kind of very very long term echelon assault. Then when my brigades arrived from the north I pulled them to hit the Union army (who by this time were now facing my soldiers) to hit them on their flanks (plus capture the objectives)

Don't feel bad about not beinga ble to figure out CSA for the moment. I often had to reload the battles and tweak the division/brigade composition of my men. Just make sure to make a save file before you modify/fill up divisions and before you/when you start battle.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by vren55

[Don't Escrow Taxes]

4 hours ago, vren55 said:

I did Confederates on Medium Difficulty and while I won all the battles... l'll agree... Malvern Hill and Gaines Mill were annoooyyiinnnng. Malvern Hill Moreso.

I did it without ANY cavalry or skirmiseshers (b/c I think it's useless, but that's just me), with most of my points (though I have 2 med, 2 logistics, 1-2 training for the starting stats) to politics and army organization. 

Cavalry for Malven Hill is kind of useless as CSA yes, although it might be useful when your reinforcements show up and the union is routing back down the hill towards the two other victory points.  You could use that cavalry to run down those routing brigades.  I never use skirmishers, period, but plan on playing with them soon just to experience the content. 

4 hours ago, vren55 said:

Malvern Hill was the most ridiculous battle I've ever had to play as the CSA. I did it (after 2 tries) on my third try by turning the Union's left flank, (the left side of the battle map) and kept pushing. I also put artillery on the hill to the right of the union army to give them a "flanking" penalty but mostly I pushed that flank like as hard as I could (combination of charge and just weight of numbers) stacking as many brigades onto it as possible until I broke through and started slowly rolling the Union army up from the side. It IS possible to break in from the forested area on the Union Army's Right flank, but the open ground after it can be made a killing field by any union cannon hiding in the copse to the below-right of it. 

The key is to identify opportunities early in the battle to focus a numerical advantage on a part of the Union line and charge, while using your shooting brigades to pin down the rest of the line so they can't pivot without being exposed to enfilade.  Rest up the brigades you dedicate for melee after that, ,and then hit them again in the center.   I agree there is some open ground to traverse but if you are running and wait for after a volley you can carry the Union positions quickly.  

[RoverGrover]

On 12/19/2016 at 3:56 AM, Don't Escrow Taxes said:

Cavalry for Malven Hill is kind of useless as CSA yes, although it might be useful when your reinforcements show up and the union is routing back down the hill towards the two other victory points.  You could use that cavalry to run down those routing brigades.  I never use skirmishers, period, but plan on playing with them soon just to experience the content.

 

I dunno, the best I've ever done on Malvern was with a massed cavalry charge to break their line followed up swiftly by a mass wave of cleanup infantry.  The trick was to muster two lines of cavalry.  One for the first line of defense, one for the second.  They were more or less useless after that, but they did a very nice job breaking their lines while keeping my infantry fresh.  Really helped to put me on a more even footing.  Still a very bloody fight though   Also probably wouldn't work without a large quantity of cavalry. 

Anybody have any tips for Antietam though?  I'm not having any difficulty winning, but I am having a lot of difficulty winning cleanly.  The union fielded 125000 men against me.  I mean, I was really pleased with my 70k going into it, but jeez.  I can only hold off massed charges of those numbers for so long before the casualty count starts to add up. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

I did the first mission on easy and got curb stomped both times.   Uh thought that was easy mode.  Just was taking to many losses when so out number and they keep charging my position.   And I noticed when I was messing with the Union fihgts that the bigger you make your amry the bigger the numbers you fight.   So I guess I'm going have to find that happy meduim or something?

[Slobodan]

9 hours ago, RoverGrover said:

Anybody have any tips for Antietam though?  I'm not having any difficulty winning, but I am having a lot of difficulty winning cleanly.  The union fielded 125000 men against me.  I mean, I was really pleased with my 70k going into it, but jeez.  I can only hold off massed charges of those numbers for so long before the casualty count starts to add up. 

Just finished it winning as CSA.

Numbers were similiar, 124k Union against mine 63k.

My strategy was:

Weakest 3rd corp (1,5 division almost all greenhorns) on north, best 1st crop (almost all veterans) in middle and medium 2nd Corp on south.

3rd corp defended wood and Church, with only skirmishers posted at fences (to delay Federals which they did). It held it's ground until 2nd part  battle started and Union converged in mass on it's position, so I had it fell beck south to the left of my 1st Corp which was entrenched at Sunken road. I had my best troops there, with 84 cannons (8 24lb Howitzers, 24 Napoleons , 24 parrots and 30 6lbs from mauled 3rd corp). Union attacked in waves but each attack was beaten back with heavy causalities. 

I also diverted 4 brigades to defend bridge, so by the time Federal troops start appearing they run into my ambush. When 3rd final part of battle started, my 2nd fresh corp was split to defend southern bridge and that bridge in middle...so it was just defending positions after that. About 1,5h  before battle ended Federals were so weaken on Sunken Road that I counterattacked at extreme left and re-took church and wood around it easily. Even was able to swing 2 Cav brigades to extreme left and cut down some of Union artillery that was undefended.

Total casualties: 55k Union, 21k Confederates...very bloody. But I was able to capture so much equipment after battle (12k Springfields 1855!) that my army got significantly modernized after it  And manpower is not a big issue anymore, getting modern weapons is more difficult at this point so I consider this as a big victory (we'll see if I feel this after Frediksburgh  )

I think my main artillery posted at sunken road was a key factor, they inflicted around 11k causulties  (more than 3k by Heavy Howitzer battery alone!)

[A. P. Hill]

Not like the real event wasn't 'kinda impossible' too.

[michaelsmithern]

i'm playing confeds on brig gen difficulty and well it's going fine. it isn't impossible, and it isn't easy. Bull run was probably one of the easier battles for me(however i've played it about 20 times now). with Shiloh i'm too slow to the advance, although i've gotten better at it. gaines mill is pretty easy in my opinion as well, by this point in the game you should have two corps and one should kinda be a sacrificial lamb in a sense, those will be the attacking wave, while your reinforcements of your veterans will crush any resistance. as for Malvern hill... there is no real strategy here, take the woods to the eastern part of North malvern hill, then have some of the second wave troops flank around to the right(send all cav that way as well) you will kill the enemy arty and get flanks on troops, this will also drag troops from the front to attack in the rear making the assault easier. 2nd Manassas, well it's defense for the most part so defend well, hold the town in the first part then make sure you hold on the 1st day, don't use the reinforcements until day 2. then it's fairly easy or easier. Antietam is even more so challenging, you have to defend the entire battlefield(which opens up like the final stage of Shiloh) and you will be under intense pressure, i haven't found a good strategy yet as i've only done it once. and fredericksburg...haven't' gotten there yet, working through my 5th play through for confeds, 1st with the latest patch, although the south won it, so you should be in good hands

[Aetius]

Malvern Hill is completely doable, and without heavy casualties.

The key for me is patience. I've played through it about four times now. My first attempts I rushed things, and took heavy casualties. On my last attempt, I moved much more slowly and carefully, and was rewarded with the above result. I spent half the battle working over the fortification on the Union far right with snipers and artillery - the snipers hidden in the woods in front of the eastern fort and the artillery positioned on the hills to the right of the Union position (along with some small cavalry and skirmisher units for protection and spotting). The rest of my attack forces were hidden in the woods further back.

The snipers and the artillery focus on Union artillery, with one goal - to kill it or drive it away from the eastern fort. Once that's done, you can hit the eastern fort with a series of brigades on a one-brigade front. Each attacking brigade gets into melee in the fort, and gets fire support from the brigade behind it. It took two waves for me to take the fort, and then the follow-up brigades push through into the Union rear.

At the same time, some brigades head to the far west, and position themselves to block the two fords without exposing themselves to fire from the hill. This will cause the Union to strip forces from the second defense line to face off against the units in the West. In combination with the sniper and artillery attacks on the eastern fort, you'll notice a general migration of Union forces to the left, which helps clear the way for your breakthrough.

When your reinforcements arrive, they form a line facing the Union left and center, but stay out of contact except for artillery, which should commence bombarding the Union blob that's building up on the left. Your breakthrough brigades form a north-south line, and then slowly move west to roll up the Union line. Your snipers can take up residence in the trees at the eastern fort, and you can eventually migrate artillery there so they can keep firing into the Union blob. Both snipers and artillery should focus artillery units, and infantry should target them as well whenever they can. Send cavalry through the hole and / or detach skirmishers to roam the Union rear, capture supply wagons, and take the two victory locations.

Eventually your breakthrough brigades will link up with your western forces, probably near the southern ford. At that point, the kill box is complete and you just move forward slowly, routing any unit that tries to stand or run and letting your artillery and snipers do their work. I can't emphasize enough that patience is important - the Union artillery left in the blob can sometimes just zap one of your units with canister if you get too close, and rout them out with heavy casualties. It was getting dark when I killed and captured the last Union units, with only one skirmisher on the far southeast edge of the map escaping.

[Aetius]

On 12/17/2016 at 7:47 PM, Lincolns Mullet said:

I put the arty to the north in those trees. You get great cover, AI units can't attack you except for their arty, and you get great flanking fire on the entire Union army. Focus on their arty first and then target anyone crossing the bridge. Keep a brigade in the woods with your arty to keep any Union cav or troops coming across there. If necessary turn your arty around to canister fire anyone coming that way.

I dont like keeping my arty on that hill because union arty pick it apart.

I do this as well. Artillery in the trees, a brigade or skirmishers behind them to block that ford, one brigade in the fortification, and one brigade to their left up the hill, preferably with good long-range weapons (Lorenz or MJ&G) and a good firearms skill. Whenever Union units try to cross the bridge, the Confederate brigade on the left approaches and fires into their flank. Your artillery can't be seen in the trees, and takes few casualties while reducing the enemy artillery, which protects the troops on the hill. It's pretty much impossible for the AI to take the bridge with this setup, even with blobbing, and it also blocks the cavalry and skirmishers from getting across into your rear. You can hold this position through the entire fight with minimal casualties and maximum experience gain, particularly for the artillery. To cover your rear, just put one of Beauregard's brigades across the river and hold the buildings there (Hampton's Legion, because of where they enter, is perfect for this job).

[Jamesk2]

Actually after a few times playing, I've found Malvern Hills to be one of the easier map. Others get the right idea with pressing the left barricade and right forest with multiple units attacking, but I did one thing that no one here seems to notice: The left barricade can be hit by a total of 6 brigades, 4 from the front and 2 from their left, standing as close to the river as possible. Like Koro sent 3 brigades down there, exactly as I would deploy, and yet he just let them sit there for most of the battle, that's not optimal enough. Similarly the forest can be hit with 4 units, two from the front and two from across the river. Also I would not press the centre attack to hard, just keep whittling down your opponents at the two aforementioned positions, while waiting for the flank to come in (I found 10 infantry brigades more than enough to keep maximum pressure on the centre, and I would place about 8-10 more brigades on the flank for maximum effect). Get your flanking force into position, seal off the exit on the left side and enjoy the massacre (I did not managed to do the last thing, the river crossing was only held by 1 of my brigade, which killed 3000+ enemies in the battle!)

Edited December 27, 2016 by Jamesk2

[Wandering1]

To follow on with what others have been saying, the easy way of penetrating the line on Malvern Hill as CSA is hitting the left wall. Since they only have the one brigade on the wall, and maybe 2-3 behind it, you can throw basically 5 greenhorns with high melee rifles to charge the fortification. Once the fortification is broken, you basically advance through the breach, and use the declination on the left side of the hill to line-of-sight enemy artillery, which allows you to complete an encirclement of the remaining forces.

Similarly, the line-of-sight issues also allow you to only fight enemy infantry that bother walking up to your men in the ditch. Which, since conveniently the infantry on the right side will not move off their hill, means you're not actually fighting all of the union infantry at once.

If you reach the bottom of the first section with your infantry by the time the map expands (by you capturing the main point on the wall), you've effectively boxed them in. I still ended up using two cavalry brigades on Malvern to mop up supply wagons and artillery that were vulnerable.

[Speedkermit]

My way of dealing with Malvern Hill was relatively straightforward. I withdrew all my units and conceded the field to the Union. I figured the cost involved in trying to win this one wasn't worth the reward. The rest of the campaign has been ok so far up to Anteitam, which I will fight tonight.

I have about 54,000 men against 117,000 yankees. It's going to be very very tough.

[Jamesk2]

18 minutes ago, Speedkermit said:

My way of dealing with Malvern Hill was relatively straightforward. I withdrew all my units and conceded the field to the Union. I figured the cost involved in trying to win this one wasn't worth the reward. The rest of the campaign has been ok so far up to Anteitam, which I will fight tonight.

I have about 54,000 men against 117,000 yankees. It's going to be very very tough.

How can it be possible? I think it's a bug, because every single post/vid I've seen about this battle put the number of Union way less than Confederates (make sense since Confed is the attacker). Even when you add the 25% from Hard mode it's Union still only slightly outnumber...