Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Battle screen camping, log off camping - final proposal

Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem  

165 members have voted

  1. 1. Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem

    • Yes
      111
    • No
      52


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

I think you still need the invisibility.  This is the only thing that simulates distance travelled in the battle instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

@admin This is probably the best solution / suggestion, that I have read so far. Might even take it one step further and make it so with option B you give up any fleet ships aswell. Also option B should never be available in enemy waters ( reinforcement zone ).

This not only needs to happen for the sake of fair and enjoyable gameplay but also to make NA more playable for people with limited time. Getting tagged 5 times in a row is BS and nothing but griefing in my opinion, since you don't even gain distance sailed in battle for the OW, which makes no sense at all.  It only ever happened to me a couple of times but those few times had me seriously question my further interest in the game more than anything else I have ever experienced in NA.

 

 

Only in reinforcement zone. How many battles do you actually see in a reinforcement zone. This idea is a free get away card basicly.lose you cargo is no punishment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, staun said:

So you agree on losing the cargo isent any punishment, ore just a very small one?

But why after any battle if your argument is not to be forced too 4 hours if fighting. To you there are no different if the battle takes 10 min ore 4 hours?

What about the others issues? They just don’t Matter ore what?

a) still it is a cost.

b) what about banning moving mods from ship to chest at sea? After some nice loot it could be more and issue try to keep the prize or flee.

c) punishment for what? For having a life, a job, a family?

d) about bad time management... Not always the case: I got tagged in front of LT but being on Endymion chased by Snow+Prince+P.Frig.+ fast Bellona I had a very thin point of sail to keep them all at bay so I had to follow the wind.

Four hours later, with 20m+1h30m battles they would have chased me again... If I didnt get a mate in Bellona waiting out of last battle for one hour to cover me.

So I could get entangled for more and more hours.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. But invisibility removes the gameplay from persistent players (if we let the attacker dissapear they are punished for their determination)

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, admin said:

Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. 

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

How is going? Any ETA for the next patch?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, admin said:

Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. 

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

Sounds good.  What is your estimate for a speed/invis boost?  I'd suggest at least 10 seconds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Invisibility has flaws. Let's fix them:

1. Timer starts when client clicks leave. Slower machines currently load longer into OW and receive less time.

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless if they need to turn for 20-30 seconds.

3. Give extra 5-10 seconds speed boost or boost dependent on battle duration. Longer battle = more boost.

Edited by Banished Privateer
  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Invisibility has flaws. Let's fix them:

1. Timer starts when client loads into OW. Slower machines currently load longer and receive less time.

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless if they need to turn for 20-30 seconds.

3. Give extra 5-10 seconds speed boost or boost dependent on battle duration. Longer battle = more boost.

Very good points.

Especially the last one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless

Could be used as a balancing parameter for the most powerful ships. The other two points are all good.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Could be used as a balancing parameter for the most powerful ships. The other two points are all good.

Balancing is one thing, but no boost is second thing. If your SOL was facing towards the shallows or land on battle start, then consider that you have no boost at all. SOLs don't get that much of a benefit from boost anyway as most of them are slow as hello kitty. They won't get out of visual range with boost if you're sitting on the battle spot. Seems like the initial facing on battle start is too crucial and it shouldn't. Ships turn 1000 times in a battle but end up where they started.

Edited by Banished Privateer
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I think this is very important.

nope, it can be abused.

- i'm going to PB and don't want to get screened...i use an alt to tag the fleet, stay in battle for 30 min until PB time, end battle and i have 10 min of invisibility.

- i'm in a dangerous battle so i avoid fighting for all the time to get more invisibility time when out and escape undetected. i fight only when i can gank or win easily.

i suppose the actual 15 sec of invisibility is the correct solution, maybe let turning rate of all ships be faster than now also for 1st rate like a 7th rate

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

a) still it is a cost.

b) what about banning moving mods from ship to chest at sea? After some nice loot it could be more and issue try to keep the prize or flee.

c) punishment for what? For having a life, a job, a family?

d) about bad time management... Not always the case: I got tagged in front of LT but being on Endymion chased by Snow+Prince+P.Frig.+ fast Bellona I had a very thin point of sail to keep them all at bay so I had to follow the wind.

Four hours later, with 20m+1h30m battles they would have chased me again... If I didnt get a mate in Bellona waiting out of last battle for one hour to cover me.

So I could get entangled for more and more hours.

A: But a very small cost. Maybe the price should be 75% in dbl of what the ship cost if it is a 4 ore above. Smaller ships you lose your upgrades.

B: In all fairnes you got them for free. And it should allready be so it should be in hold until return to habor.

C : Punishment?, It is only pixels. It is no different from when I leave the safezone. Plan a traderun. I might also be forced to spend more time than I planed. Are we talking about no player from they leave the habor and return to habor, not can be forced to more than 1,5 h gameplay. That would be the logic in your argumentation. Ore does it only goes for the PvP players.

d : Yes sometimes you either have to fight ore spend time running. But lets be honnest it is not 1 of 10 battles like that. Not what I have seen atleast. 

Edited by staun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

stay in battle for 30 min until PB time, end battle and i have 10 min of invisibility

Who said 10 minutes? 30-60 seconds should be the max limit. On top of that, you can't join PB for 2 minutes after leaving a battle. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Who said 10 minutes? 30-60 seconds should be the max limit. On top of that, you can't join PB for 2 minutes after leaving a battle. 

Why not be able to join a pb. The pb fleet get screened, But because they didn’t keep all tagged, they can escape and join the pb. This would just give the screener an extra time to get out and retag ore those outside an extra time to tag. You really think we need more things to keep ppl out of PB’s?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, staun said:

Why not be able to join a pb. The pb fleet get screened, But because they didn’t keep all tagged, they can escape and join the pb. This would just give the screener an extra time to get out and retag ore those outside an extra time to tag. You really think we need more things to keep ppl out of PB’s?

We don't need more things to keep people out of PBs, it's a CURRENT game mechanic. To prevent battle camping exploit that Huliotk mentions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, staun said:

C : Punishment?, It is only pixels. It is no different from when I leave the safezone. Plan a traderun. I might also be forced to spend more time than I planed. Are we talking about no player from they leave the habor and return to habor, not can be forced to more than 1,5 h gameplay.

D : Yes sometimes you either have to fight ore spend time running. But lets be honnest it is not 1 of 10 battles like that. Not what I have seen atleast. 

In a full loot/loss MMO they are not only pixels. Some of these pixels could be equivalent to dozen-hundreds hours commitment.

My point was indeed having potentially a maximum unespected extra time online of 1h30m: if you get catched right before arriving, worst scenario will keep you online a single battle maximum timer. And 1h30m extra commitment is still quite a lot but cant be less in any case: if you got tagged you have to ready to fight at least a full battle.

About unlikeness of such situations... Happened 3 times (Yordi, me and another friend) in a couple months so 3 times on a bit more a dozen active players. It means on approximately 1000 players rotating it is happening 150/200 times every two months. Even keeping a lower value (like 120), we are talking of this situation (or similar) twice daily.

How dangerous for player retention could this be thinking to a (hopefully) far more populated game?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Invisibility has flaws. Let's fix them:

1. Timer starts when client clicks leave. Slower machines currently load longer into OW and receive less time.

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless if they need to turn for 20-30 seconds.

3. Give extra 5-10 seconds speed boost or boost dependent on battle duration. Longer battle = more boost.

Excellent suggestions 👍

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

In a full loot/loss MMO they are not only pixels. Some of these pixels could be equivalent to dozen-hundreds hours commitment.

My point was indeed having potentially a maximum unespected extra time online of 1h30m: if you get catched right before arriving, worst scenario will keep you online a single battle maximum timer. And 1h30m extra commitment is still quite a lot but cant be less in any case: if you got tagged you have to ready to fight at least a full battle.

About unlikeness of such situations... Happened 3 times (Yordi, me and another friend) in a couple months so 3 times on a bit more a dozen active players. It means on approximately 1000 players rotating it is happening 150/200 times every two months. Even keeping a lower value (like 120), we are talking of this situation (or similar) twice daily.

How dangerous for player retention could this be thinking to a (hopefully) far more populated game?

 

I am fine you want to jump back so you don’t risk loose your ship. I just don’t think it should be as cheap as you want it to be. Keep your ship. But you loose all in your hold and have to pay a compensentation for dodging a fight. Half the ships value do seem cheap to me. 

You actually want to use that mat as an argument. Lets put it right. You have tried it once in a couple of months. You do lets say 2 fights a day. 26 days a month. So you get it in 1 fight out of 104 fights. It happens to you 3-6 times a year, where you might have to fight ore give up your ship.  How many times do a casual player ore a trader loose a ship a year because he is forced in to a fight. Think his problem is bigger than yours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, staun said:

I am fine you want to jump back so you don’t risk loose your ship. I just don’t think it should be as cheap as you want it to be. Keep your ship. But you loose all in your hold and have to pay a compensentation for dodging a fight. Half the ships value do seem cheap to me. 

You actually want to use that mat as an argument. Lets put it right. You have tried it once in a couple of months. You do lets say 2 fights a day. 26 days a month. So you get it in 1 fight out of 104 fights. It happens to you 3-6 times a year, where you might have to fight ore give up your ship.  How many times do a casual player ore a trader loose a ship a year because he is forced in to a fight. Think his problem is bigger than yours.

I think the problem is bigger for trader and my idea helps them too, especially in case being catched with a fleet.

Still eternal tag being less likely for them: usually pretty slow, so on trader (with fleet especially) you end catched and sunk pretty fast.

High gear ship vs other high gear team is more likely to end in a loop of tag-run--tag-run (not last due to force sail mods... Making a ship slower in OW but faster in battle).

Honestly I am thinking more to the RL issue and limits more than punishing people to successfully escape from a (hopeless in these cases) battle.

 

PS: value of the ship based on what? And realism wise what's the sense?

Edited by Licinio Chiavari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, admin said:

Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. But invisibility removes the gameplay from persistent players (if we let the attacker dissapear they are punished for their determination)

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

I do not think asians will change the outcome, unless you will feed them with ships, missions and events like wow. 

Edited by Pirate78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I think the problem is bigger for trader and my idea helps them too, especially in case being catched with a fleet.

Still eternal tag being less likely for them: usually pretty slow, so on trader (with fleet especially) you end catched and sunk pretty fast.

High gear ship vs other high gear team is more likely to end in a loop of tag-run--tag-run (not last due to force sail mods... Making a ship slower in OW but faster in battle).

Honestly I am thinking more to the RL issue and limits more than punishing people to successfully escape from a (hopeless in these cases) battle.

 

PS: value of the ship based on what? And realism wise what's the sense?

Value if a ship. Pretty sure it can be calculated based on a data base on average prices. So most in real ofc, also some price in Dubloons. Lets say in range 2000- 4000 dbl, depend on ship. It should not be cheap to dodge fights.

if its get to cheap, ppl will just use it all the time. You think about how it affect the hunters to fight for a couple if hours a couple of times. How do you think it will affect the players that get killed. Knowing they can’t do anything about it. You just teleport out, get back 1/2 hours later kill another guy and Wupti teleport out again. 

As it is now it is allready hard to set up a defence fleet. As you said your self. They had to chanse you for 4 hours and then they still didn’t get you. How harder do you wich us to be to defend new and casual players?

Edited by staun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, staun said:

Value if a ship. Pretty sure it can be calculated based on a data base on average prices. So most in real ofc, also some price in Dubloons. Lets say in range 2000- 4000 dbl, depend on ship. It should not be cheap to dodge fights.

if its get to cheap, ppl will just use it all the time. You think about how it affect the hunters to fight for a couple if hours a couple of times. How do you think it will affect the players that get killed. Knowing they can’t do anything about it. You just teleport out, get back 1/2 hours later kill another guy and Wupti teleport out again. 

As it is now it is allready hard to set up a defence fleet. As you said your self. They had to chanse you for 4 hours and then they still didn’t get you. How harder do you wich us to be to defend new and casual players?

I understand the point. Still on one hand is an escape route also for casuals/traders.

And we should not forget the RL part of the problem. I have to know a limit.

From a defender PoV. A) there's a different RoE in safezone.

B - we can modify a bit taggin circles to give a slight more advantage to hunters.

Still I point out it's more a part of RL, or quality of life for me: it's not acceptable that I could be locked in game indefinately or I have to "lose".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I understand the point. Still on one hand is an escape route also for casuals/traders.

And we should not forget the RL part of the problem. I have to know a limit.

From a defender PoV. A) there's a different RoE in safezone.

B - we can modify a bit taggin circles to give a slight more advantage to hunters.

Still I point out it's more a part of RL, or quality of life for me: it's not acceptable that I could be locked in game indefinately or I have to "lose".

it is at best a very slim escape route for casuals and traders. How often do they actually have a chance to escape a battle when you attack them?

Rl can be a bitch. But where should the cut be made, if there should be one on a war server? We could easy limited every fight to only 20 min. Why should it be 1 h 30 min?

Yeah but lets be honnest about that. The game have changed to push ppl out of the safezone, on demand from the huntes. The time a casual player ore a trader spend in a safezone is basicly nothing,

Well on the last point I have to say, It is all about you. To follow your logic I could easy say.: I only have 20 min game time, so I should not be forced to fight for more than 20 min ore lose it all.

I am always amaced when the hunters actually think they are the victims and we need to protect them. 

Again I am not sure why the hunters need a bigger advantage. They just do a defensiv tag. Sail away in battle. Jump, start all over. Thats why you have to chase them for hours after hours to catch them. The same wit an Ai tag. Thety hold all the cards to get away.

Edited by staun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, staun said:

it is at best a very slim escape route for casuals and traders. How often do they actually have a chance to escape a battle when you attack them?

Rl can be a bitch. But where should the cut be made, if there should be one on a war server? We could easy limited every fight to only 20 min. Why should it be 1 h 30 min?

Yeah but lets be honnest about that. The game have changed to push ppl out of the safezone, on demand from the huntes. The time a casual player ore a trader spend in a safezone is basicly nothing,

Well on the last point I have to say, It is all about you. To follow your logic I could easy say.: I only have 20 min game time, so I should not be forced to fight for more than 20 min ore lose it all.

I am always amaced when the hunters actually think they are the victims and we need to protect them. 

I am not a victim. And my hunters were not defenders. They were ALOHA :)

Honestly I thought about that after reading others' whines. Not mine. Mine is a witness of what can happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×