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Battle screen camping, log off camping - final proposal


Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem  

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  1. 1. Log off camping/BR screen camping is a problem

    • Yes
      111
    • No
      52


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I could propose that upon exiting an OW (so not in PZ nor in R areas: you hunt in enemy capitols and in PZ at your own risk) PvP (so no AI tag trick) battle a loading screen with two options:

A - enter OW. Just like now. Same invisibility timer or even dropping it granted the second option.

B - teleport to closest available OP or open port.

In B case ship will teleport to closest available port LOSING ALL CARGO.

This to prevent tricky uses and paying the action losing repairs, goods on board and so also doubloons simulating the fast retreat from area jettisoning all cargo.

This could help those already able to retreating from a battle (so already showing off being able to) saving the ship... And being able to log off due to RL, still paying the option avoiding infinite tags.

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

 

The other end of the stick has been proposed in the past though - exit to last visited port; if it is enemy port then no exit to port and only exit to OW.

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1 minute ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

The second scenario is valid, the first isn't. Lincinio stated the exact scenario for the screen to appear, which is an OW PvP instance excluding R-Zones and Patrol-Zones.

To be honest, the use of alts will always be problematic. An unexploitable gamemechanic with alt-accounts being a reality is basically impossible to achieve. The more important question in my opinion is where the line should be drawn. Which mechanical loopholes can be accepted, which cannot?

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Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

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6 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

- attack a npc with a SOL

- exit battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

perfect !

-or-

- be attacked by your own alt, pvp

- end battle, teleport SOL safely through enemy waters

even more perfect !

 

The other end of the stick has been proposed in the past though - exit to last visited port; if it is enemy port then no exit to port and only exit to OW.

I underlined OW PVP battle to avoid AI trick.

Still we need to grant a player the chance to log off if they already survive a battle. So anyone will know that he needs 1h30m minimum online to save a ship.

I got tagged before going to bed around 3am... And chasing + 2 chase battle ended after 7am... And I didnt get tagged AGAIN only because a mate came to Battle spot and waited 1h the Battle end having upon exit chasers giving up.

Yordi too was chased around half map for like 4+ hours.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

I agree: even better.

Teleport to last port visited.

Thus giving a chance to hunters to guess where the fleeing ship retreated.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

The cyclical irony of Naval Action

I told you there wasn't any whining about timers, but that cycle has started now too.

... Wait a minute! I recognize you! You're one of those RAKERS who are shaping this game to fit you at the expense of everyone else...

... How DARE you!?

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I see this come up all the time. That ppl have a right not to be forced in to long hours of fighting, when they go out to hunt. A demand to get safe away after a fight. Each time it get me to think why this demand and why ppl think the hunter have a right to better protection, then the hunted. Some of the issues I see is.

- Why should the limited be one fight? Ppl says because of real life. But what about the trader ore PvE player that have spend 1,5 trading ore taking a big AI fleet. Should they then be free of being forced in to a battle? Haven’t they too been in game long enough, that real life can make them run out of time ingame?

- What would be the concequences for the new and casual players, if we just eliminate any value of a defence fleet, because the hunters just teleport out?

- loosing all cargo in the hold, is that really an punishment. We talk about some repairs and Dbl. The real value is the ship ore am I wrong?

edit:

- If you should be allowed to teleport safe out. When should it be possible. When you can escape ore first after 1h 30 min? What if the battle only takes 15 min. Do you then still have the right to teleport to safty?

What I am trying to say is. I am fine if there a changes. Some I Like and some i proberbly won’t. But before we make a lot of changes I think I would be god if we have a set of rules that those changes should be tested against. 

Edited by staun
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53 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Of course :)

Last port visited is my own best bet in the game design we have with the rancid alt exploits we must endure.

At least everyone can logoff and no one will self teleport ships to another place.

And yes, i like Licinio's "all cargo lost".

If altsa re an issue (and i know they are) deal with them. Unless $$ from killing your own game by alt users and dlc buyers is too much to try making your game playable.

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The exit mechanics post battle need to be fixed.  We all agree with that.  Frankly, anyone who complains that he was forced to stay in battle past his bed time (or supper time) and was actually deep in enemy territory at the time, is guilty of very poor time management.  Lets not bend over backwards for someone who doesn't understand that there is a time commitment when entering dangerous waters.  Next they'll want a 'Pause" button.

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19 minutes ago, staun said:

When you can escape ore first after 1h 30 min? What if the battle only takes 15 min. Do you then still have the right to teleport to safty?

If you're able to escape you are able to.

The point with today (and less an issue to me having quite plenty time in last months) RoE and possible infinite tagging it is you cant know nor manage in anyway your time: you can get entangled for hours and hours if you (rightfully) want to save your ship. That's coupled with some ships (and now some mods too) are almost unreplaciable.

Imagine a 5/5 with Naval Clock tagged on the way back home... And then hunted for HOURS: such ship has not only a very high ingame value I could equate to X playing hours dedicated to farm/trading/crafting: she could be simply not replaciable ever.

Losing such a ship in a fair fight could be acceptable. Losing her to a gank too.

Losing her because after successfully escaping for 4+ hours the player has to log off due to RL issues is inviting ragequit.

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

A - enter OW. Just like now. Same invisibility timer or even dropping it granted the second option.

B - teleport to closest available OP or open port.

In B case ship will teleport to closest available port LOSING ALL CARGO.

This to prevent tricky uses and paying the action losing repairs, goods on board and so also doubloons simulating the fast retreat from area jettisoning all cargo.

This could help those already able to retreating from a battle (so already showing off being able to) saving the ship... And being able to log off due to RL, still paying the option avoiding infinite tags.

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

@admin This is probably the best solution / suggestion, that I have read so far. Might even take it one step further and make it so with option B you give up any fleet ships aswell. Also option B should never be available in enemy waters ( reinforcement zone ).

This not only needs to happen for the sake of fair and enjoyable gameplay but also to make NA more playable for people with limited time. Getting tagged 5 times in a row is BS and nothing but griefing in my opinion, since you don't even gain distance sailed in battle for the OW, which makes no sense at all.  It only ever happened to me a couple of times but those few times had me seriously question my further interest in the game more than anything else I have ever experienced in NA.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If you're able to escape you are able to.

The point with today (and less an issue to me having quite plenty time in last months) RoE and possible infinite tagging it is you cant know nor manage in anyway your time: you can get entangled for hours and hours if you (rightfully) want to save your ship. That's coupled with some ships (and now some mods too) are almost unreplaciable.

Imagine a 5/5 with Naval Clock tagged on the way back home... And then hunted for HOURS: such ship has not only a very high ingame value I could equate to X playing hours dedicated to farm/trading/crafting: she could be simply not replaciable ever.

Losing such a ship in a fair fight could be acceptable. Losing her to a gank too.

Losing her because after successfully escaping for 4+ hours the player has to log off due to RL issues is inviting ragequit.

So you agree on losing the cargo isent any punishment, ore just a very small one?

But why after any battle if your argument is not to be forced too 4 hours if fighting. To you there are no different if the battle takes 10 min ore 4 hours?

What about the others issues? They just don’t Matter ore what?

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

If captains want to preserve cargo/loot they have to fight they way off (thus I would say to eliminate invisibility at all).

I think you still need the invisibility.  This is the only thing that simulates distance travelled in the battle instance.

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6 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

@admin This is probably the best solution / suggestion, that I have read so far. Might even take it one step further and make it so with option B you give up any fleet ships aswell. Also option B should never be available in enemy waters ( reinforcement zone ).

This not only needs to happen for the sake of fair and enjoyable gameplay but also to make NA more playable for people with limited time. Getting tagged 5 times in a row is BS and nothing but griefing in my opinion, since you don't even gain distance sailed in battle for the OW, which makes no sense at all.  It only ever happened to me a couple of times but those few times had me seriously question my further interest in the game more than anything else I have ever experienced in NA.

 

 

Only in reinforcement zone. How many battles do you actually see in a reinforcement zone. This idea is a free get away card basicly.lose you cargo is no punishment. 

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12 minutes ago, staun said:

So you agree on losing the cargo isent any punishment, ore just a very small one?

But why after any battle if your argument is not to be forced too 4 hours if fighting. To you there are no different if the battle takes 10 min ore 4 hours?

What about the others issues? They just don’t Matter ore what?

a) still it is a cost.

b) what about banning moving mods from ship to chest at sea? After some nice loot it could be more and issue try to keep the prize or flee.

c) punishment for what? For having a life, a job, a family?

d) about bad time management... Not always the case: I got tagged in front of LT but being on Endymion chased by Snow+Prince+P.Frig.+ fast Bellona I had a very thin point of sail to keep them all at bay so I had to follow the wind.

Four hours later, with 20m+1h30m battles they would have chased me again... If I didnt get a mate in Bellona waiting out of last battle for one hour to cover me.

So I could get entangled for more and more hours.

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Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. But invisibility removes the gameplay from persistent players (if we let the attacker dissapear they are punished for their determination)

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Enemy persistence cannot be removed by design. Enemy persistence should not be punished. 
We tried multiple times to solve the problem and partial invisibility and speed boost is the only working way to solve it. 

Our expectation is that PVP might change a lot after asian language localization goes live and we will review the issues after. Current priorities revolve around mission content, solo patrols (tournaments) and improvements on trading. Main focus is the delivery of the localization and battle UI update.

 

Sounds good.  What is your estimate for a speed/invis boost?  I'd suggest at least 10 seconds.

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2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Invisibility has flaws. Let's fix them:

1. Timer starts when client loads into OW. Slower machines currently load longer and receive less time.

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless if they need to turn for 20-30 seconds.

3. Give extra 5-10 seconds speed boost or boost dependent on battle duration. Longer battle = more boost.

Very good points.

Especially the last one.

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19 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

2. Increase turn rate on big ships during the boost. For some ships boost is useless

Could be used as a balancing parameter for the most powerful ships. The other two points are all good.

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