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Combine this = Great improvement.

 
On 21/11/2016 at 4:40 PM, admin said:

Hello captains

We would like to share some more information on the forthcoming updated events and gather your thoughts for final tuning. Previous events despite being open for all were not inclusive and allowed prizes for the select few. We wanted to retain the challenge component but fix the problem that the majority did not even have a chance to have fun in those events. 

PVP events.

PvP events will run 3 times a day in 2 pre-selected location in the Caribbean (alternating between shallow and deep water). The event is basically a zone where all captains can arrive in the ship they want and pvp against others. Zone will be clearly indicated on the map when it starts and server announcement will be published. Initial times for the events will be set for EU, Far east and US prime times. Sinking other players grants player points. By the end of the event top 10 victors will receive a special reward in form of the deadman's chest alternative granting ship customizations, blueprints upgrades and ship redeemables. Victory points will depend on the class of the vessel you sink. Player AI fleets will be disabled in that zone and will not arrive to battle when it starts. 

The only concern we have is the potential for the arranged battles (where players will give each other points for victory by alternating sinking and winning). But initially we are ok with that risk because due to small size of the zone trying to use under-crewed ships might just grant more victories to people who actively hunt for enemies.

PvE challenges

Two types of challenges will be added available from the lobby

  • Ironman pve challenge: Player will be tested against constant stream of NPC reinforcements in the instance. 
  • Time trial pve challenge. Player will be tested on how fast he can sink 1-2 NPC enemies.

Event will run 24/7 and can be repeated multiple times until you are satisfied with the results. The leaderboards will be reset after the event ends giving everyone the chance to try to get the prize. 

If popular - challenges can be expanded in the future allowing the player to challenge himself in various ship to ship actions from demasting to boarding or sinking a first rate in a cutter.

Prizes

In the first iterations of the events top 10 captains on the leaderboards will be provided with a prize. Leaderboards will be reset when individual event ends. Because events will run all the time and pvp events are split into timezones everyone will have a chance, as time spent on the events will not matter and only player skill will decide the result. in the future tiered leaderboards can be implemented - but for the current online one will be enough (we think).

Lets see how it goes. And lets discuss

 

26 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I think it sounds pretty good. 

I do see alot of complaints already about only the top 10 being rewarded. 
Perhaps you should reward "Currency" to people instead.

Then you can reward the top 50 (or even 100): 
1-10 = 100 Currency.
11-25 = 50 Currency. 
26-50 = 25 Currency.
51-100 = 10 Currency. 

Ofcourse you would have to add a new "Shop" where we can use our Currency. Personally i think this is the best idea. 
To expand on the "Currency/New Shop" suggestion i'd like to give some examples of what could be sold: 
- Rare 5th rate (Santa Cecilia as an example): 1000 Currency. (You can choose the exact build/setup you want ofcourse).
- Rare 5th rate BP (Santa Cecilia BP): 10.000 Currency. 
- Rare 1st rate (L'Ocean?): 2500 Currency.
- Rare 1st rate BP (L'Ocean?): 25.000 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate (Surprise): 250 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate BP: 2500 Currency.
- Rare Paint (Sangreé): 500 Currency. 
- Rare Paint BP (Sangreé): 5000 Currency.
- Common Paint (Ehh, Black/White Chequer?): 200 Currency.
- Common Paint BP (Black/White Chequer?): 2000 Currency.

Or with the current idea make it so drop chance for "rare" stuff gets lower the further down the "Leaderboard" you are but everyone gets something:
1-10 = 50% Chance for Rare Drop.
11-25 = 25% Chance for Rare Drop.
26-50 = 12.5% Chance for Rare Drop. 
51-100 = 6.25% Chance for Rare Drop.

 

The numbers i use are ofcourse made up and just made to provide an idea of what could be done. 
I'd also argue chance for Rare Drop from PvE should be less than half of what it is in PvP due to Risk/Reward.
PvE is basically "no risk" though the "iron man" thing might introduce some risk to it. So you can still get Rare Drops from PvE but chances are much lower than from PvP. 

Personally i prefer the idea of "Currency/New Shop". It eliminates RNG which has been one of the biggest complaints throughout the development of Naval Action.
- It will take longer for some people to get enough currency to buy Rare (Or even Ultra Rare/Exceptional) stuff but everyone has a chance and as long as you get in top 100 you gain currency. 
- Most importantly it eliminates RNG so you don't have #99 on Leaderboard get super lucky and get most rare item/ship ingame while a person that has been in top 10 several times still haven't gotten that item.
Furthermore when eliminating RNG Drops you can choose your own reward, why is this good? 
This is good because i might not want a any of the items i actually get, this would annoy the shite out of me to be frank.
Getting Paints/Ships/other rewards that i have no interest in because of RNG. 
- The only real downside i can see in the "Currency/New Ship" Suggestion is that those with more time will be able to earn more Currency than others, but in my eyes i don't see that as a downside. You can't make a game where this doesn't happen unless everyone have all the same things right away.
- A player with more time can earn more money from trading than a player with less time. A player with more time can earn more money/xp from playing the game than someone with less time. It is just how it works. 


Please keep in mind, this is for PvP server only. 
Feedback would be lovely but keep it constructive.
Cheers. 
Tommy Shelby. 

PS. I look forward to testing the upcoming patch, i sincerely hope it'll bring the PvP aspect of the game back to life! :)

 

Edited by Kair
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I agree with akg here, there should be no need for tunig as a special reward for a PvE challenge should not be there in the first place on a PvP server.

If people on the PvP servers still want to play this gamemode one could include it but without any materialistic reward (except a bit of gold and XP similar to missions). A leaderboard should be enough motivation for those who want their name up there. I mean, in the end the principle and appeal of the PvE challenges (e.g. throwing an endless stream of AI enemies against a player) is not much different than arcade games like say, Tower defense.

Edited by Sir Isaac Redwood

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42 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I think it sounds pretty good. 

I do see alot of complaints already about only the top 10 being rewarded. 
Perhaps you should reward "Currency" to people instead.

Then you can reward the top 50 (or even 100): 
1-10 = 100 Currency.
11-25 = 50 Currency. 
26-50 = 25 Currency.
51-100 = 10 Currency. 

Ofcourse you would have to add a new "Shop" where we can use our Currency. Personally i think this is the best idea. 
To expand on the "Currency/New Shop" suggestion i'd like to give some examples of what could be sold: 
- Rare 5th rate (Santa Cecilia as an example): 1000 Currency. (You can choose the exact build/setup you want ofcourse).
- Rare 5th rate BP (Santa Cecilia BP): 10.000 Currency. 
- Rare 1st rate (L'Ocean?): 2500 Currency.
- Rare 1st rate BP (L'Ocean?): 25.000 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate (Surprise): 250 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate BP: 2500 Currency.
- Rare Paint (Sangreé): 500 Currency. 
- Rare Paint BP (Sangreé): 5000 Currency.
- Common Paint (Ehh, Black/White Chequer?): 200 Currency.
- Common Paint BP (Black/White Chequer?): 2000 Currency.

Or with the current idea make it so drop chance for "rare" stuff gets lower the further down the "Leaderboard" you are but everyone gets something:
1-10 = 50% Chance for Rare Drop.
11-25 = 25% Chance for Rare Drop.
26-50 = 12.5% Chance for Rare Drop. 
51-100 = 6.25% Chance for Rare Drop.

 

The numbers i use are ofcourse made up and just made to provide an idea of what could be done. 
I'd also argue chance for Rare Drop from PvE should be less than half of what it is in PvP due to Risk/Reward.
PvE is basically "no risk" though the "iron man" thing might introduce some risk to it. So you can still get Rare Drops from PvE but chances are much lower than from PvP. 

Personally i prefer the idea of "Currency/New Shop". It eliminates RNG which has been one of the biggest complaints throughout the development of Naval Action.
- It will take longer for some people to get enough currency to buy Rare (Or even Ultra Rare/Exceptional) stuff but everyone has a chance and as long as you get in top 100 you gain currency. 
- Most importantly it eliminates RNG so you don't have #99 on Leaderboard get super lucky and get most rare item/ship ingame while a person that has been in top 10 several times still haven't gotten that item.
Furthermore when eliminating RNG Drops you can choose your own reward, why is this good? 
This is good because i might not want a any of the items i actually get, this would annoy the shite out of me to be frank.
Getting Paints/Ships/other rewards that i have no interest in because of RNG. 
- The only real downside i can see in the "Currency/New Ship" Suggestion is that those with more time will be able to earn more Currency than others, but in my eyes i don't see that as a downside. You can't make a game where this doesn't happen unless everyone have all the same things right away.
- A player with more time can earn more money from trading than a player with less time. A player with more time can earn more money/xp from playing the game than someone with less time. It is just how it works. 


Please keep in mind, this is for PvP server only. 
Feedback would be lovely but keep it constructive.
Cheers. 
Tommy Shelby. 

PS. I look forward to testing the upcoming patch, i sincerely hope it'll bring the PvP aspect of the game back to life! :)

Now this is what I am talking about. Thanks for making this nice and clear. What do you think Devs? Add admiralty Shop and make things interesting for everyone. 

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Idk, i have concerns about big clans camping around the areas to gank and wipe solo players and minor clans, controling the access to it and givin to them more chances on prizes. In short time will become just an "elites" playground while most of solo players will have great dificulties to enter.

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Agreed, the risk that this is just going to be something that casual or solo/small group players can't do worries me.

If thats the case, and in addition, if this turns out to be the only way to get the 'rare' BPs, then its basically game over for me.

Edited by Elouda
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Casual player, and taking from plenty of "definitions" across the fórum has like 30 mins or so to spare.

30 mins is not even a full battle.

So plan ahead and spare a couple hours for a event session.

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2 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

To expand on the "Currency/New Shop" suggestion i'd like to give some examples of what could be sold: 
- Rare 5th rate (Santa Cecilia as an example): 1000 Currency. (You can choose the exact build/setup you want ofcourse).
- Rare 5th rate BP (Santa Cecilia BP): 10.000 Currency. 
- Rare 1st rate (L'Ocean?): 2500 Currency.
- Rare 1st rate BP (L'Ocean?): 25.000 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate (Surprise): 250 Currency. 
- Common 5th Rate BP: 2500 Currency.
- Rare Paint (Sangreé): 500 Currency. 
- Rare Paint BP (Sangreé): 5000 Currency.
- Common Paint (Ehh, Black/White Chequer?): 200 Currency.
- Common Paint BP (Black/White Chequer?): 2000 Currency.

So abusable. I can imagine a lot of people just boost their currency so they can get the BPs and then they are done with this zone. Thats why giving only ships and no BPs at all could be better.

 

Its really hard to constantly encourage people going into the zone without making it too abusable.

Edited by JonSnowLetsGo
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Agreed with the above.

If blueprints for some reason must be handed out, take a leaf from EVE's BPCs and make them 'limited run', so you can only craft 5 or 10 or something ships with them, and then they go pop.

Edited by Elouda
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+1 on Tommy's recommendation.

Also, I want to see more team vs team events also, not just events where you show up and smash as many players as you can.

I want to see events where you show up to the region with a group, and you are put on a team vs another enemy nation team and there is an objective for both teams, destroy or capture the trader ships for one side, and escort/defend the trader ships for the other, 50% of the trader ships must survive or the escort team loses and the attacking team wins.  Or it can just be strait up PvP for 45 minutes, the team with the higher BR after 45 minutes wins.  Each player on the winning team gets a deadman's chest delivered to a port where they have an outpost. 

Edited by Yar Matey

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51 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Casual player, and taking from plenty of "definitions" across the fórum has like 30 mins or so to spare.

30 mins is not even a full battle.

So plan ahead and spare a couple hours for a event session.

Not "casual" player, but "solo"...you cant say solos players are casual...

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39 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

+1 on Tommy's recommendation.

Also, I want to see more team vs team events also, not just events where you show up and smash as many players as you can.

I want to see events where you show up to the region with a group, and you are put on a team vs another enemy nation team and there is an objective for both teams, destroy or capture the trader ships for one side, and escort/defend the trader ships for the other.  Or it can just be strait up PvP for 45 minutes, the team with the higher BR after 45 minutes wins.  Each player on the winning team gets a deadman's chest delivered to a port where they have an outpost. 

This isn't a criticism of you Yar Matey. I'm just using your post to respond to this sentiment.

Why do we see more and more requests for "Arena-style" events when there is such a mechanism now that isn't used? What is it about the Small/Large Mission Battles that isn't what this is asking for? Is it the level of incentive/reward? If that's it then why aren't people requesting a boost to the Mission Battle loot? I just don't get the disconnect.

Now people are asking whether these new PvP events should only allow attacking non-Allied nationals, aren't gank screens going to be a problem? I suggested a BR ranking system to make it more balanced and equitable. Forget that, I should've raised this point instead. How on earth can we going to have an open Battle arena in the OW? The whole concept seems silly.

Edited by Angus McGregor
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1 hour ago, Roche Brasiliano said:

Idk, i have concerns about big clans camping around the areas to gank and wipe solo players and minor clans, controling the access to it and givin to them more chances on prizes. In short time will become just an "elites" playground while most of solo players will have great dificulties to enter.

That's why I think you should get currency for the event to use in the shop (like Shelby said) and for PVP battles on the open world

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9 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said:

This isn't a criticism of you Yar Matey. I'm just using your post to respond to this sentiment.

Why do we see more and more requests for "Arena-style" events when there is such a mechanism now that isn't used? What is it about the Small/Large Mission Battles that isn't what this is asking for? Is it the level of incentive/reward? If that's it then why aren't people requesting a boost to the Mission Battle loot? I just don't get the disconnect.

Now people are asking whether it should only allow attacking non-Allied nationals, can we attack fellow nationals? I suggested a BR ranking system to make it more balanced and equitable. Forget that, I should've raised this point instead. How on earth can we have an open Battle arena in the OW? The whole concept seems silly.

Its simple really, you sail with a group of friends to where the event is, join the event, wait patiently for an enemy team to show up to challenge you, event begins.  People will show up for rewards such as the deadman's chest. 

 

Let me ask you this, in the original World of Warcraft, why did I have to travel through blackrock depths to get into molten core for the 40 man raid?  Why didn't Blizzard just eliminate open world and just instance everything?  Same reason why Naval Action developers don't either, traveling to where you need to be adds immersion into the game.  Having to actually travel to Molten core also generated much PvP outside of the instance as players tried to attack you going into the instance.  Same with Naval Action, people traveling to events will create pvp hot spots.  Pirates will be waiting in the area to try and attack you, other enemy nations will be as well.  Having to actually travel in Open world adds a dynamic layer of immersion that is extremely important in any video game. 

Edited by Yar Matey
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On 2016-11-21 at 4:53 PM, Sir Isaac Redwood said:

PvP challenge sounds fun but we will have to see how 3 each day will affect the regular open word PvP.

And I am not sure if there should be PvE events on PvP servers (I guess these challenges apply to both PvP and PvE servers?). Because I do not think that rewarding players for playing with nothing but AI ships is something for a PvP server.

Well, Then we should by your logics remove anything that is not PVP related from the PVP servers... because rewarding pvp players doing anything that is not actual pvp is surely not what PVP servers is about....

 

This idea that persists that PVP servers dont have players that either are PVE players or casual PVE/PVP players is silly.

PVP just means there is mechanics for Players vs Players, it does not remove any Players vs Enviroment stuff.

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12 minutes ago, Yar Matey said:

Let me ask you this, in the original World of Warcraft, why did I have to travel through blackrock depths to get into molten core for the 40 man raid?  Why didn't Blizzard just eliminate open world and just instance everything?  Same reason why Naval Action developers don't either, traveling to where you need to be adds immersion into the game.  Having to actually travel to Molten core also generated much PvP outside of the instance as players tried to attack you going into the instance.  Same with Naval Action, people traveling to events will create pvp hot spots.  Pirates will be waiting in the area to try and attack you, other enemy nations will be as well.  Having to actually travel in Open world adds a dynamic layer of immersion that is extremely important in any video game. 

On the same note in terms of old vanilla WoW references, while certain PvP-areas sounds perfectly okay we still have to be careful to not repeat the same mistakes.

First we had open world PvP in certain areas (good old Crossroads and such) which was awesome, which turned into instanced battlegrounds (which was okay, battleground fights and still open world PvP around those areas while waiting, similar to NA right now with Port Battles), and lastly joinable battlegrounds from capitals, which is what completely killed open world PvP and turned all the PvP into queuing up for endlessly repeated arena-style fights for points.

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4 minutes ago, Aegir said:

On the same note in terms of old vanilla WoW references, while certain PvP-areas sounds perfectly okay we still have to be careful to not repeat the same mistakes.

First we had open world PvP in certain areas (good old Crossroads and such) which was awesome, which turned into instanced battlegrounds (which was okay, battleground fights and still open world PvP around those areas while waiting, similar to NA right now with Port Battles), and lastly joinable battlegrounds from capitals, which is what completely killed open world PvP and turned all the PvP into queuing up for endlessly repeated arena-style fights for points.

That is exactly the point I just made is it not?

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1 minute ago, Yar Matey said:

That is exactly the point I just made is it not?

Pretty much, got caught up in reminiscing and didn't realize that the battleground references had been dropped further up already :D Just a bit of a PvP-centered anecdote to flesh out your point.

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1 hour ago, Roche Brasiliano said:

Not "casual" player, but "solo"...you cant say solos players are casual...

Yes I will agree.

I'm a solo social pyrate at heart. At most 1 or two consort fellows.

I plan my cruises to last about 2 hours, almost daily. :)

So I might have time to participate or not, depending on schedules.

Casual player - login, fight for 20 minutes, logoff - has no time to take advantage of it. But that player might plan once per week the hours to do it.

 

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On 11/21/2016 at 0:03 PM, Anne Wildcat said:

Instead of winners getting the prizes, how about keep the PVP events for those who like such things but get points for kills, assists, damage done, in the events and on the open world outside the events and have a store at the capital where you can spend your points on paints and ships. Of course the better the prize the more points needed. Of course this will be exploited by alts but if players are desprate enough they will find an exploit in anything. 

Are do a mix so that even though you might not be the top 10 players every time, you get points and will be able to get some of those paints and redeem ables (save the BP's for 10 guys).   This will allow it to equal out so not the same guys only get the rewards.  Say some one goes there very time and three times a day but they get sunk a lot but still get a fair share of kills just not enough to make the top ten.  They get points for effert and after so many points can turn them in.   These same points can be gained in OW normal PvP but at a slower rate.   

 

Now my biggest issue is the shallwos.  There are still some nations that don't have the H. Rattler and I don't care what folks say if it's in a group of good players it's going to dominate most other ships.   This BP needs to be released more to other nations or the game as a whole.   So it better be one of the main rewards in the shallow water so it can get spread out to more nations and players.   That way you can see just what ships are winning all the time. IF the top 10 players are all ways in this ship than you know it's the meta and is OP to other ships and shouldn't be locked to just a few having the BP.  PvP2 is a prime example of it as almost every us player got one now cause they have several BP"s of it and few other nations do or have active players still around with it.   I rarely see any other nation in the shallows any more cause they don't want to get attacked by a swarm of Heavy Rattlers with a fleet of Heavy Rattlers and be way out number.  

 

Glad your making Fleets not be able to enter these battles.  That will make it more about Player Vs Player.

 

I don't like the fact the PvE missions are not on the OW.   Those should be part of missions that you set goals for them.  Makeing it an Arena type thing is going to just pull more and more folks off the actual OW and have less players out there.    Again make this a point thing you add up over time and than trade in to get the goodies.  Never a big fan of elite boards and leader boards cause they tend to have the same players/clans on them over and over.  That and I don't want folks to know I really suck at the game and I'm not a hacker after all (sorry haven't been called one or OP Pirate in a while...lol).    I think your going in the right direction and hope to see these out soon.  Was hoping this patch was going to drop before the end of this week cause it's a holiday here and more folks would be free to be on.  

 

I'll be honest I only been logging in to burn my econ and nothing else cause the game kinda gotten stale at the moment.  I don't evne mind the new crafting, but getting nothing but comp wood from my wood farms is really starting to piss me off.

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5 hours ago, Wind said:

Problem is , this game lacks the amount of items that can be used as rewards. For example, if Devs would add loot and divide it into Rare(PvE) and Exceptional(PvP) then we could have exchange missions for PvE and PvP , but each quality would have it's own items as final exchange reward. 

One way to do this is to have the ships for these rewards more broken down like PvE reward special Trader/Exploration ships that are more PvE nature.  Than have the PvP ships more just that your combat ships.

 

I would love to see some more traders that have more guns but less cargo and can do better escort trade work.   

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Regarding the PVP event.

First I pvp, I like pvp, I got nothing against pvp. 

Looking back at how other games dealt with this, Elite Dangerous (CQC), WOW (Battle Grounds), GW2(Forgot the name). Take everything you have, leader board, planned events, loot, all of it and move it to its own area of the game. (that does not mean get ride of OW PVP, just the events.) If it works don't change it. ;) 

You already have the small battles, and the large battles. Expand on that. Tune the match making to follow the Leaderboards  , higher rank players play higher rank players. Match based on BR. Small battles could be 4v4, lrg could be 12v12 or 25v25. Give EVERYONE loot, doesn't have to be a lot but a chance at a mod, something. Set up seasons, run them for a month or two, winner of the leader board during a season gets something cool??!?! Costume paint for OW, colored sails (OMG), cool winners only ship (but not to OP ;) ). Expand the Leaderboards, base it on SOL, Frigates, Unrated. More winners means more players. 

Players will still need to rank up in OW to get bigger ships, make money all that stuff. 

This will also help players that mey not be that good at PVP, gives them a spot to training with out losing their ship. 

Also please add the admiralty store. its a great idea. (again the other games seem to have success with it. ) 

Edited by Daguse
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I just hope that events do not become like the "Dailies" of other games -- things you must do every day to stay competitive because that's where the bulk of the rewards come from.

POTBS had this problem too. The intent was to help casual players by giving them quick access to cash rewards through the daily missions but what it really ended up meaning was that you fell behind the inflation curve if you DIDN'T do the dailies, every single day.

Hopefully they are fun events that people find interesting but hopefully they are not too rewards-driven to the point that anyone not doing them might as well not even log in at all.

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With the limited rewards on offer for this and with my limited PVP skills and the very real chances of losing ships there is absolutely no incentive for me to even try this mode.

Maybe if you took a leaf out of some Free to play games book such as World of Warships and World of tanks and when introducing effectively a new mode such as this you offer some token rewards for participation you would probably see a desire from many players to try this game mode out.

But while you insist on rewarding a very select few players then you can expect only the players with the utmost confidence in their combat abilities or groups of gankers that are compensating for lower skills to even participate.

I feel this is another misstep and would love to be proven wrong but at this stage I doubt it.

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1 minute ago, Bacchreus said:

With the limited rewards on offer for this and with my limited PVP skills and the very real chances of losing ships there is absolutely no incentive for me to even try this mode.

Maybe if you took a leaf out of some Free to play games book such as World of Warships and World of tanks and when introducing effectively a new mode such as this you offer some token rewards for participation you would probably see a desire from many players to try this game mode out.

But while you insist on rewarding a very select few players then you can expect only the players with the utmost confidence in their combat abilities or groups of gankers that are compensating for lower skills to even participate.

I feel this is another misstep and would love to be proven wrong but at this stage I doubt it.

But how do you think you get better? Why not buy a store bought, cheap ship and group up with a buddy and see if you can get a 2 or 3 v 1 where the odds are stacked in your favor and you can practice? You will lose ships but you'll learn something every time you fight. By not risking anything you'll only get better at fighting AI which is a small fraction of the game on offer.

Hell I'd wager most of us would welcome a gank about now just for a fight. ;) Dip a toe in the PvP water, and you might find that the game starts to open up for you.

That said, taking anything out of a F2P model is probably a bad idea, but having some reward for participating would be great if that encourages new players to PvP.

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There is going to be way to many mismatches in a pvp zone. It's going to be whoever has the biggest group wins. Sure not all the members will be at the top of the leader boards, but members of that group will dominate the boards.

How about using the existing tournament system(or should I say non-existant on PvP2) with a few tweaks. Add in a 2v2, 3v3, etc. If not it will be the biggest group wins and after some time that group will be all alone in that zone until they get bored. 

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