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Ship Loss and Replacement

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I have been wondering how ship replacement will work. If you are in a fight, and say, the police show up at your door to ask about the illegal twinkie lab that you tell them its down the block, while you slip the dog the illegal twinkie that you were eating, and your ship gets smashed to matchwood while AFK, does it re-spawn at a port, or do you have to buy a new one. Also, how does one aquire a new ship type like a 1st rate. This may have answered else where, but I havn't found it.

 

P.S. Stay away from counterfiet twinkies. I'm feeling a little ill and so is the dog.

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I have been wondering how ship replacement will work. If you are in a fight, and say, the police show up at your door to ask about the illegal twinkie lab that you tell them its down the block, while you slip the dog the illegal twinkie that you were eating, and your ship gets smashed to matchwood while AFK, does it re-spawn at a port, or do you have to buy a new one. Also, how does one aquire a new ship type like a 1st rate. This may have answered else where, but I havn't found it.

 

P.S. Stay away from counterfiet twinkies. I'm feeling a little ill and so is the dog.

 

In short, we don't really know yet and there's an entire thread full of discussion on the pros/cons of various ideas.   :)

 

Edit - Had to search for that thread but I found it!  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/715-ship-maintenance-and-ship-recycle/

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yeah good topic,,our yahts were 30 bucks,,so a consitution may run near 100 bucks,,i cant afford to lose a consitution 6 times in a day i have no problem buying my ships as i have extra bucks to put in the game but,exspensive day loseing a consitution.. but i have no problem loseing it if i committed to the fight,,ill just save up till i get a new one..but yeah developers need to tell us thier thoughts on this matter

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yeah good topic,,our yahts were 30 bucks,,so a consitution may run near 100 bucks,,i cant afford to lose a consitution 6 times in a day i have no problem buying my ships as i have extra bucks to put in the game but,exspensive day loseing a consitution.. but i have no problem loseing it if i committed to the fight,,ill just save up till i get a new one..but yeah developers need to tell us thier thoughts on this matter

 

Agreed

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Except that we arnt gonna have to pay with cash for every ship we get. The game will go nowhere doing that. Our thirty dollars was simply a fund raising exterprise. Early access and the yacht was just the bait to lure you in.

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I'm a fan of the concept that if you loose a ship, you're able to replace that ship (possibly with a small in-game salvage fee or 'buying it back' from an enemy), but you get it stock without any of the upgrades you might have put in to it.  Or, for an added incentive not to loose your ship, maybe you can replace it with a severely battle damaged ship needing lots of repair before it can realistically fight again (still without any upgrades).  Additionally, since each ship is supposed to be slightly different with it's own 'quarks' to it, possibly a negative modifier permanently attached to the ship, such as lower crew morale because of the lost battle, reduced speed due to old/damaged frames, or reduced firing accuracy due to a warped deck.  The possibilities for the negative effects can be wide ranging, and it would be great if they were somewhat random, so that if you lost the boat once and it reduced the speed, that it might affect the gunnery the next time.  Additionally, it could be possible to loose some of the special characters that have been talked about in another post.  Maybe the gunner just couldn't swim...

 

Anyway, that's my opinion, so that it definitely has a negative effect when loosing a ship, but doesn't make you start off from a tiny sloop if you loose a 74.  That kind of punishment, especially when you may have just gotten unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, might discourage players way too much.  It can also encourage people to replace that frigate with a new one if you've lost too many battles while learning to sail her.  Having modifiers that follow a ship (possibly even after it's sold, if we can sell to other players) will help to make each ship unique, which is one aspect that I'm really excited about in this game.

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If you lose a ship, you lost a ship. No safeguards, the ship is gone. Maybe you had it insured, then you'll have money to cover for at least a good chunk of the loss, but you've lost it. Permanently. It's gone. Feeding coral. Housing fish. It's at the bottom of the sea. Bye bye. Goner. Poof.

And that for several reasons - mostly related with the nature of the game as an open world concept.

 

1- You should be TERRIFIED at the prospect of losing your ship. Because that prevents people doing gamey stuff to exploit mechanics introduced for the purpose of "making it less harsh". And yeah, every mechanic introduced with that intention has a possible exploit. And we don't want gamey exploits in this game, do we?.

 

 

2- Players should lose their ships. Because if they lose their ships they'll spend time getting another ship to replace the one they did. If losing your ship doesn't mean squat because it's still waiting for you at port (damaged or not, if it's there) then in a very short period of time everyone will be sailing the seas with the most powerful ships possible. POTBS syndrome: only endgame lvl50 ships were worth using and 80-90% of the ship models (any ship under lvl50) was considered uncompetitive and not worth bothering with. The game was full of large frigates, galleons, rates, but you wouldn't see a single schooner or a single brig...when in the caribbean they were the most common ships. But not in that game. Because everyone had their big ships with 3 durabilities and extremely easy to replace once the 3 durabilities were gone.

 

If losing your ship means nothing or very little, in no time we'll have a sea full of first rates and massive frigates roaming freely because if the player loses his, who cares?. He'll have it back when he respawns. NOT fun. Also consider for the game-wide repercussions as if everyone owns an immensely powerful ship he's not scared of losing there'll be no place for the small-medium sized fish, thus rendering a lot of the in-game models unused. Which is not just a pity but a huge waste of resources for the developer team, resources spent in modelling ships nobody uses because they have more powerful stuff they're not scared to lose.

 

 

3-I engage in battle with an enemy in my powerful frigate. The enemy boards and captures my ship. Now he owns it. I go back to port, where I have my just lost ship waiting for me to board it again. Suddenly a ship has cloned. Where there used to be ONE powerful frigate in the game now there are TWO. Chain this with what's covered in 2) and you have yet another reason why lost ships should remain lost.

 

 

 

 

I'm more or less OK with the idea of an insurance that (more or less) covers for the ship if you lose it. But anything that means that losing a ship is not LOSING it for real, is a bad idea and will have horrid end results in the open world. Lost sihps are lost. I know it might be a pain in the ass to lose your ship as a result, but that's part of what an open world game like this should be like. People sailing in medium and small sized ships where the pain of losing it is not as huge as with a big one. And big ships being reserved for really important stuff. Just as they were in real life.

 

 

I don't want to sail a sea full of 1st,2nd and 3rd rates and 44 gun constitutions, thank you. I want to sail a sea full of a mixture of ships that resembles real life historical shipping of the time. And to have that there's no saving grace: lost ships should be lost forever. And that's about it.

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I would like to hear Game Labs statement because it's getting more and more unclear.

 

Let's start with the certainties. The game will be focused on ships powered by sail, equipped with cannons.

But what next?

 

In short-is this game going to be pay[real money]2play after each lost battle? And if not, then what? Grind2play?  PvE?

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Nice post RAMJB.

Moreover, the loss of the ships will affect players behaviour in a realistic way.

I guess we will see less kamikaze/suicidal or rash players and more well-thought-out actions, retreat or flight movements.

 

On the other hand, the loss of a ship should not discourages the player from continuing to play. Slap the player but do not injure him. :P

An insurance should be the minimum.

 

And please, the price of the boats should be based on historical prices, then on supply & demand, raw materials, worforce (wages,etc...), cost of transport, etc...

Not on stupid hidden statistics like in other games.

 

I would like to hear Game Labs statement because it's getting more and more unclear.

 

Let's start with the certainties. The game will be focused on ships powered by sail, equipped with cannons.

But what next?

 

In short-is this game going to be pay[real money]2play after each lost battle? And if not, then what? Grind2play?  PvE?

 

Indeed, the future of NA is very blurry.

They said :

Payment model is Buy to Play: Pay once play free forever.

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1539-pre-orders-open-for-naval-action/

 

But i'm afraid with this economic model, NA will never reaches or even touch on the depth of an Eve universe.

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They said :

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1539-pre-orders-open-for-naval-action/

 

But i'm afraid with this economic model, NA will never reaches or even touch on the depth of an Eve universe.

 

 

Buy to play means that you buy the game - and then you don't have monthly fees to pay. As long as that's the meaning we should be fine as there's nothing said about microtransactions. They're not even mentioned, and I sincerely hope none are involved, for, if you pay for a ship with real money of course should be yours forever. That's a given.

 

There might be some ships included for a price tag - the preorder already includes one (which incidentally, I'll own :D). So there's already a ship which arguably is paid with real money. Shoudln't be too big of an issue as is a small vessel that should be little better than a fallback/starter ship. As long as ships released for (hypotetical) microtransactions are of that nature (smallish and not much more powerful than a fallback) there should be no problem as it would preclude the problems I mentioned.

Now if they start selling out first rates for 70 bucks, and constitutions for 50, we'd be in a craphole, quite literally. Because again, if you pay real money for your ship, should be yours forever. And then you can just derp around in a massive ship that you don't care about losing. Not the best thing for an open world game. In fact, it would be almost the worst thing possible so I just hope they don't go there.

 

If I have to say what I hope that statement mean, think about Elite:dangerous, which is also a game that you purchase but then you'll have no monthly fees to pay, and involves absolutely no F2P like microtransactions. It also had some starting ships for preorders - but those ships CAN be lost in action. Of course it'll involve future DLCs...which means more money for the devs to keep server runnings and game updated, and morecontent available for you to achieve in-game, but that you don't get simply by purchasing the DLC. Sure, now in the game there'll be "this ship" that you can sail once you achieve it in-game. But it's left to you to actually achieve it in-game, you don't get it just because you purchased the DLC.

 

As long as NA stays in that turf, and that's what they meant in their statement, it'll all be fine. Hopefully, as I don't know of any game that has kept permanent servers for an open world without a monthly subscription as those servers cost money to run and maintain. We'll see.

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well we can after buying still donate monthly some bucks for the servers.

we dont know what we get for donating but it will be something 

like 5bucks 10x18lb long guns

something so that no pay to win would be possible

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I still think that there are other ways to limit the over abundance of first raters.  The easy answer?  Make the smaller ships more profitable.  Less crew to pay, less cost for every bit of damage, less time spent in repairs, each upgrade for the ship (which are lost when it's sunk) is much less expensive, etc.  Essentially, make the largest ships money sink holes that are important strategically for a nation/clan, but need many smaller boats to finance them.  Here's also where I hope NA can articulate whether we'll be able to own more than one ship at a time.  I could play with a schooner or brig for 90% of the time in order to pay for that frigate to take to the seas once or twice a month.  An additional deterrent to losing your ship could be losing the cargo, if any is carried.

 

As for the clone ships, if you capture an enemy, you don't get the actual ship, but instead prize money/money from selling it.  Make the prize equivalent to the cost of that type of ship in it's condition when you bring it in.  That way, if you capture a boat and want to upgrade to it, you can buy that class of boat with your prize money.  Otherwise, it just bolsters your coffers.  As for whether you have insurance vs. getting the exact same boat back is pretty much the same idea in my mind, but it would be nice to have some history to the boats.

 

I guess my fear is that people will blockade ports with fleets, and if you've got a brand new stock brig and are just working your way up the ladder, no modification advantages, some jerk in a frigate will overhaul you and take your boat.  Then it's back to a rowboat and grinding for gold until you can buy a slightly larger boat.  Although I'm happy to play with brigs and schooners myself, let's face it.  Many people want to play this game for the frigate actions and ship of the lines.  The smaller ones should be there for sure, and hopefully they'll be profitable enough to make them fairly prevalent, but thanks to O'Brian and Forester, customers want to fight.  There will likely be much more fighting in this game than there was in real life.  Really, the only reason people will want to run from a fight is if they're outmatched.  If half the game population is losing their ships every time they engage in...ahem, Naval Action, then the whole world would likely get disinterested pretty fast.

 

That said, I could see the point of having insurance money to go get another boat if it's completely destroyed or taken (maybe insured for 70% of the original cost, so you might have to downgrade for a while after a major loss if you don't have a flush bank account).  I know I don't want to spend my time running from every sight of sail every time because I'm afraid of loosing my new, but relatively basic boat.  Then all I'd be doing is trading, which while I'd still enjoy that to some degree, it's not nearly as exciting as combat.  Some concessions need to be made in order to allow the excitement of fighting your ship without such dire repercussions.

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I still think that there are other ways to limit the over abundance of first raters.  The easy answer?  Make the smaller ships more profitable.  Less crew to pay, less cost for every bit of damage, less time spent in repairs, each upgrade for the ship (which are lost when it's sunk) is much less expensive, etc.  Essentially, make the largest ships money sink holes that are important strategically for a nation/clan, but need many smaller boats to finance them.  Here's also where I hope NA can articulate whether we'll be able to own more than one ship at a time.  I could play with a schooner or brig for 90% of the time in order to pay for that frigate to take to the seas once or twice a month.  An additional deterrent to losing your ship could be losing the cargo, if any is carried.

 

Aye, odds are the loot you gained from that little brig will not be enough to pay for the 1st rates long voyage in search for treasure or prize money. I still want to sail my frigate for more than "twice" a month though. More like all month otherwise the fun is lost. Yeah thats a bit of bias but a game thats nothing but little brigs is a bit meh imo. ;)

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I still think that there are other ways to limit the over abundance of first raters.  The easy answer?

 

74Gun 3rd rate ship of the line

the 25+guns that you have more are 9lb and 12lb top guns wicha re useless in a line fight.

and no need to say that when you fire at an 74gun with an First Rate you have the main batterie hiting the water or the first 2 decks going into the rigging.

Dlu3isz.jpg

the wasted resources ins hape of top deck guns ammo and wood for an first rate could be saved and insteat you could build 2x74gun 3rd rates or 3 4th rates or 4 38guns or 5 24guns 

 

now stop please all stop talking about these woodenicebergs like they where godlike. 

 

and why shouldnt i able to reuse the same ship that i captured. - logic?

 

to the rest dont asume that the openworld will be a tiny bathtube like in potbs.

if they want to blockade your habour they would have to get past the Forts and moving an entire fleet from one side of the carebean to the other will take roughly 7-8hours with good wind.

 

currently you guys try to find solutions to problems wich dont exist.

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Aye, odds are the loot you gained from that little brig will not be enough to pay for the 1st rates long voyage in search for treasure or prize money. I still want to sail my frigate for more than "twice" a month though. More like all month otherwise the fun is lost. Yeah thats a bit of bias but a game thats nothing but little brigs is a bit meh imo. ;)

 

Yep, but if you sail that frigate and it's taken by an enemy, and you are left with nothing, then you're stuck with grinding your way back up to a frigate for possibly longer than a month (with any luck, since they really should be something expensive to at least work a bit for).  As for the ships of the line, you might not be able to make all the money with just a small brig, but it could be enough to pay the operating costs, and then hope for some prize money to help with repairs and upgrades.  Also, possibly getting paid by a nation/clan for services rendered in larger battles or taking of towns.

 

74Gun 3rd rate ship of the line

the 25+guns that you have more are 9lb and 12lb top guns wicha re useless in a line fight.

and no need to say that when you fire at an 74gun with an First Rate you have the main batterie hiting the water or the first 2 decks going into the rigging.

 

now stop please all stop talking about these woodenicebergs like they where godlike. 

 

and why shouldnt i able to reuse the same ship that i captured. - logic?

 

to the rest dont asume that the openworld will be a tiny bathtube like in potbs.

if they want to blockade your habour they would have to get past the Forts and moving an entire fleet from one side of the carebean to the other will take roughly 7-8hours with good wind.

 

currently you guys try to find solutions to problems wich dont exist.

 

74's were popular worldwide for powerful navies.  They're not godlike, but they were prevalent during major naval battles.  They were small enough to still be decent sailors, and powerful enough to still do damage in a line of battle.  They were the most popular line of battle ship until the end of the Napoleonic Wars.  Maybe not godlike, but definitely revered in many peoples' minds (possibly just behind frigates, due to the frigates' occasional use in independent duty resulting in exciting chases and 1 on 1 battles).  There is good reason that 74's were historically popular, and hopefully those qualities can be incorporated into this game.

 

The logic behind not being able to reuse a ship you captured (which is just a suggestion to eliminate the cloning ship problem that you mentioned) is that if you're part of a navy, you don't usually have a say in whether it gets purchased and used by that navy, broken up, or sold off.  It would not be too common that you'd actually be put in charge of the ship.  Therefore, you get the monetary benefit of the successful action, and if you want to, purchase a ship of that class (as this is a game, you can buy your way to a bigger, better boat; hopefully not with real money - I agree with you on that point).

As for the problems which don't exist, to me and many others on this forum that could be said for every problem we've discussed.  It's a potential problem that we want to have a say in, or at least know how the game is to be structured.  I can't wait for my opportunity to play this game, but until then all I have to go on is what I'm reading here.  Also, are you saying that every port is going to have multiple forts protecting the harbor?  Can you not blockade the harbor outside of the forts' range?  Heck, losing a ship isn't a problem yet, as I don't have one to sail (at least on a computer).

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I guess my fear is that people will blockade ports with fleets, and if you've got a brand new stock brig and are just working your way up the ladder, no modification advantages, some jerk in a frigate will overhaul you and take your boat.  Then it's back to a rowboat and grinding for gold until you can buy a slightly larger boat.  Although I'm happy to play with brigs and schooners myself, let's face it.  Many people want to play this game for the frigate actions and ship of the lines.  The smaller ones should be there for sure, and hopefully they'll be profitable enough to make them fairly prevalent, but thanks to O'Brian and Forester, customers want to fight.  There will likely be much more fighting in this game than there was in real life.  Really, the only reason people will want to run from a fight is if they're outmatched.  If half the game population is losing their ships every time they engage in...ahem, Naval Action, then the whole world would likely get disinterested pretty fast.

 

 

Then EVE would've been a desert after half a year. And is still going on, has gone on for years, will go on for years. And the harshness of losing is one of the key reasons why it has gone on for years. Otherwise at this moment there would be hundreds if not thousands of Titans around...not the handful in existence. Why? because each time a titan was destroyed, it was that, destroyed. Gone. For good. EVE would be a mess if their doctrine of "if you lose your ship, it's gone" was anything other than that. In an open persistent world game you MUST incorporate that doctrine, else in due time everyone is sailing the most powerful ships which historically were rare for a very good reason.

If the game is involved enough, has enough depth and is good, serious consecuences when losing your ship should be no problem for players. Noone has a problem with that in EVE. and well, those who do have a problem, are not the right player for that game. And I daresay they're not for this one either. At least not if we want it to live up to it's full potential.

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Why? because each time a titan was destroyed, it was that, destroyed. Gone.

 

its a gigant space ship in space.  we are talking about floating hulls geting towed back and repaired.

you people are comparing sailing ships to gigant Spaceships capable of destroying worlds.

 

here in NA it will in the end be like this:

- A ship gets launched by an Player driven Society/clan/guild/what ever.

this ship exist in the open world as a Single ship there is no way to make 2 ships out of a single ship of the same type

 

this ship after fighting some pirates and escorting a convoy for months now gets destroyed.

A it got lost during a storm and smashed against sharp rocks on a cliffy coast

B destroyed in therms of sunk in combat

C captured as an Prize ship

 

so situation wich are similar to A and B the ship is gone nothing to do about it( except using diving bells to lift single cannons and an anchor) or plundering the beached ship wreck.

 

so now we come to C:

 

you tow that ship back into habour now what?

 

A repairing it and refit it to your needs and use it in the player driven Society/clan/guild/whatever in wich ways i allready sugested in other threads wich disapears und pages of ranting about we need to limit the First rates wich 80% of the player base does not want to sail.

(slow, expensiv, limited by waterdepth and and... and people keep sugesting more unnesesary mechanics for the remaining less than 10-5% who wants one)

 

B repaing and selling it to Captains of your Nation

 

C send it into drydock where the admirality takes it apart to creat Shipplans of that type (if nation specific Ships get inplemented)

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Yep, but if you sail that frigate and it's taken by an enemy, and you are left with nothing, then you're stuck with grinding your way back up to a frigate for possibly longer than a month (with any luck, since they really should be something expensive to at least work a bit for).  As for the ships of the line, you might not be able to make all the money with just a small brig, but it could be enough to pay the operating costs, and then hope for some prize money to help with repairs and upgrades.  Also, possibly getting paid by a nation/clan for services rendered in larger battles or taking of towns.

 

2-3 days for a small frigate is ok with me but if I were to lose such a ship for a month I would probably just ragequit the game and I think some others might agree with me. I like your hardcore thinking but its a bit too hardcore for me. But I'm all for a months long work on larger ship of the lines. :P

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what are you guy talking about grinding months fore a simple frigatte, losing it without posting wich kind of situations it could have happend or thinking about how to avoid such situations these post are as usefull as comparing the flightcharacteristics of an Jetplane with the one of a trashbin geting knocked around by strong winds during a common summer thunderstorm.

 

 

you guy are talking about a system wich we in the end wont have ingame.

remember we at the moment have this:

 

yes this ,,     ,, 

 

thats right nothing...

 

no rank system no social system in therms of friendlist clans anything

just a hand full of boats with that we can pew pew pew around in a single TDM mode.

no system how to get one of these ships anything.

 

it would be more usefull if people would start working together sugesting a solid system or diffrent versions of one on wich we can improve.

instead of the Threads wich get filled with 20+ pages of single post saying a tiny fragment then starting arguing about a tiny fragment then it stops for some time and other person come in sugest the same tiny fragment befor and it all repeats it self.

 

roughly 3/4 of the Forum is ranting about problems wich we dont have yet or will be getting. People are thinking of problems wich are minor tweaking at the end where we are at the very begining and we didnt get much ahead in the past 3-4months and now we are just befor the start of pre-order early acces.

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If you lose a ship, you lost a ship. No safeguards, the ship is gone. Maybe you had it insured, then you'll have money to cover for at least a good chunk of the loss, but you've lost it. Permanently. It's gone. Feeding coral. Housing fish. It's at the bottom of the sea. Bye bye. Goner. Poof.

And that for several reasons - mostly related with the nature of the game as an open world concept.

 

1- You should be TERRIFIED at the prospect of losing your ship. Because that prevents people doing gamey stuff to exploit mechanics introduced for the purpose of "making it less harsh". And yeah, every mechanic introduced with that intention has a possible exploit. And we don't want gamey exploits in this game, do we?.

 

 

2- Players should lose their ships. Because if they lose their ships they'll spend time getting another ship to replace the one they did. If losing your ship doesn't mean squat because it's still waiting for you at port (damaged or not, if it's there) then in a very short period of time everyone will be sailing the seas with the most powerful ships possible. POTBS syndrome: only endgame lvl50 ships were worth using and 80-90% of the ship models (any ship under lvl50) was considered uncompetitive and not worth bothering with. The game was full of large frigates, galleons, rates, but you wouldn't see a single schooner or a single brig...when in the caribbean they were the most common ships. But not in that game. Because everyone had their big ships with 3 durabilities and extremely easy to replace once the 3 durabilities were gone.

 

If losing your ship means nothing or very little, in no time we'll have a sea full of first rates and massive frigates roaming freely because if the player loses his, who cares?. He'll have it back when he respawns. NOT fun. Also consider for the game-wide repercussions as if everyone owns an immensely powerful ship he's not scared of losing there'll be no place for the small-medium sized fish, thus rendering a lot of the in-game models unused. Which is not just a pity but a huge waste of resources for the developer team, resources spent in modelling ships nobody uses because they have more powerful stuff they're not scared to lose.

 

 

3-I engage in battle with an enemy in my powerful frigate. The enemy boards and captures my ship. Now he owns it. I go back to port, where I have my just lost ship waiting for me to board it again. Suddenly a ship has cloned. Where there used to be ONE powerful frigate in the game now there are TWO. Chain this with what's covered in 2) and you have yet another reason why lost ships should remain lost.

 

 

 

 

I'm more or less OK with the idea of an insurance that (more or less) covers for the ship if you lose it. But anything that means that losing a ship is not LOSING it for real, is a bad idea and will have horrid end results in the open world. Lost sihps are lost. I know it might be a pain in the ass to lose your ship as a result, but that's part of what an open world game like this should be like. People sailing in medium and small sized ships where the pain of losing it is not as huge as with a big one. And big ships being reserved for really important stuff. Just as they were in real life.

 

 

I don't want to sail a sea full of 1st,2nd and 3rd rates and 44 gun constitutions, thank you. I want to sail a sea full of a mixture of ships that resembles real life historical shipping of the time. And to have that there's no saving grace: lost ships should be lost forever. And that's about it.

RAM!!!! :DD

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If you lose a ship, you lost a ship. No safeguards, the ship is gone. Maybe you had it insured, then you'll have money to cover for at least a good chunk of the loss, but you've lost it. Permanently. It's gone. Feeding coral. Housing fish. It's at the bottom of the sea. Bye bye. Goner. Poof.

And that for several reasons - mostly related with the nature of the game as an open world concept.

 

1- You should be TERRIFIED at the prospect of losing your ship. Because that prevents people doing gamey stuff to exploit mechanics introduced for the purpose of "making it less harsh". And yeah, every mechanic introduced with that intention has a possible exploit. And we don't want gamey exploits in this game, do we?.

 

 

2- Players should lose their ships. Because if they lose their ships they'll spend time getting another ship to replace the one they did. If losing your ship doesn't mean squat because it's still waiting for you at port (damaged or not, if it's there) then in a very short period of time everyone will be sailing the seas with the most powerful ships possible. POTBS syndrome: only endgame lvl50 ships were worth using and 80-90% of the ship models (any ship under lvl50) was considered uncompetitive and not worth bothering with. The game was full of large frigates, galleons, rates, but you wouldn't see a single schooner or a single brig...when in the caribbean they were the most common ships. But not in that game. Because everyone had their big ships with 3 durabilities and extremely easy to replace once the 3 durabilities were gone.

 

If losing your ship means nothing or very little, in no time we'll have a sea full of first rates and massive frigates roaming freely because if the player loses his, who cares?. He'll have it back when he respawns. NOT fun. Also consider for the game-wide repercussions as if everyone owns an immensely powerful ship he's not scared of losing there'll be no place for the small-medium sized fish, thus rendering a lot of the in-game models unused. Which is not just a pity but a huge waste of resources for the developer team, resources spent in modelling ships nobody uses because they have more powerful stuff they're not scared to lose.

 

 

3-I engage in battle with an enemy in my powerful frigate. The enemy boards and captures my ship. Now he owns it. I go back to port, where I have my just lost ship waiting for me to board it again. Suddenly a ship has cloned. Where there used to be ONE powerful frigate in the game now there are TWO. Chain this with what's covered in 2) and you have yet another reason why lost ships should remain lost.

 

 

 

 

I'm more or less OK with the idea of an insurance that (more or less) covers for the ship if you lose it. But anything that means that losing a ship is not LOSING it for real, is a bad idea and will have horrid end results in the open world. Lost sihps are lost. I know it might be a pain in the ass to lose your ship as a result, but that's part of what an open world game like this should be like. People sailing in medium and small sized ships where the pain of losing it is not as huge as with a big one. And big ships being reserved for really important stuff. Just as they were in real life.

 

 

I don't want to sail a sea full of 1st,2nd and 3rd rates and 44 gun constitutions, thank you. I want to sail a sea full of a mixture of ships that resembles real life historical shipping of the time. And to have that there's no saving grace: lost ships should be lost forever. And that's about it.

Sorry but i think that he has reason, it´s a very good point of view and i like it.

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so now we come to C:

 

you tow that ship back into habour now what?

 

A repairing it and refit it to your needs and use it in the player driven Society/clan/guild/whatever in wich ways i allready sugested in other threads wich disapears und pages of ranting about we need to limit the First rates wich 80% of the player base does not want to sail.

(slow, expensiv, limited by waterdepth and and... and people keep sugesting more unnesesary mechanics for the remaining less than 10-5% who wants one)

 

B repaing and selling it to Captains of your Nation

 

C send it into drydock where the admirality takes it apart to creat Shipplans of that type (if nation specific Ships get inplemented)

 

 

Historically if you were a pirate you'd commandeer the ship and use it yourself if so you wished. Of course the problem of being a pirate is that everyone would want to see your head hanging from his ship's bowsprit. Kind of a strong deterrent, if there are any to be a rat.

For privateers it would be mostly the same. A privateer was just that, a captain which was on his own, not part of a national navy, nor subjected to any military orders. His letter of marque would give explicit details as how loot would be handled, and captured ships were part of the loot. Usually a privateer would just give away the ship and get the finantial compensation, but that's because privateers in general dealt with weaker prey than their own ships, rarely capturing anything bigger or more powerful than their own ship. But if by chance it just happened that the privateer captured a better fighting ship than his own, He could very well commandeer it as part of his private participation on the loot. But of course...privateers only operated against shipping of nations at war with their own...so they won't just be able to go around the sea randomly attacking any stuff they stumble upon.

 

For navy officers the ship would be handed to the admiralty as the captain would have no right over the captured ship whatsoever. Navy officers didn't own a ship - they were entrusted with the command of a navy property, and in almost all cases any ship they commandeered they had to give to the admiralty.

 

 

How does it translate into the game?. If you're out of the official ranks of the navy (I'm assuming there will be navies implemented in the open world metagame, btw, I know is assuming too much, but let's assume they are) then you keep whatever you put a hand on, be it as a pirate, be it as a national privateer (but if you're a privateer you'd rather be damned sure the ship you captured is of a nation at war with your own's, lest you get "hanged for piracy" I.E. fined by your own nation for actions against their interest. And of course, that'd include the ship taken off your hands). If you're in the navy (assuming they're into the game) you hand them over but you get some good thumbs up from your superiors (advancing ranks within the navy, getting commendations that you can change for special items/parts, that kind of stuff) and the ship is included within the navy official ship list - meaning that maybe it could be entrusted to another captain/player.

 

All of which just makes me think how amazing this game can be if such a "navy" system is implemented. Creating a character to be in the ranks of the navy, following their orders and not having to buy your ships, but rather be appointed to them...do well with your ships, you'll rise in the ranks and get entrusted better ships (if you want to accept the changeover, of course, maybe you don't want to give up your 32 gun frigate to be assigned to a 4th rate after all) Lose your ship, you get another one for free, but of a lower class, and you get annoyed superiors at you which you'll have to deal with. That'd be something worth playing...

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This is a long conversation about nothing since we know very little from the devs. What they have said is that it will be loss based but less harsh then Potbs. Whatever that means.

 

Without the constant loss and purchasing of ships there will be no economy

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This is a long conversation about nothing since we know very little from the devs.

 

Well were bored here. Gotta talk about something even when we know absolutely nothing. :lol:

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