Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

[Guest]

The question is how much cubic space is available for actual cargo and munitions.   If you remove space for crew, guns, and ropes, blocks, and ship odds and ends, you end up with VERY little actual cargo space on a ship.

Very true, and that's why I would be fine with the cutter having a max of maybe half that ammo. Or even less. Nobody needs to shoot both broadsides every time possible for 1.5 hours.. except maybe the AI

[Siegfried]

I like the changes proposed, the only think I don't like is the wait to test it.

 

I would add the resistance of the mast if you sail all canvas when get shots in the mast.

[Helbent]

In general, I like these changes. They are def a step in the right direction I think. However, I am very curious how this will interact with the existing wood and regional bonus mechanics. Do those stay as they are and this new mechanic essentially replaces the trim? Or is this overhauling the entire system?

[Slamz]

I like all of this including those things "under consideration".

 

 

The idea of "too many sails" seems the most questionable to me. On the surface I like the idea (and I like that you can end up building a ship that tips over and sinks if you don't manage your turns and sails smartly) but on the other hand I could see it becoming the new mandatory thing to do -- speed is so important both in chasing and escaping that it could become mandatory to overload all ships with sails.

 

Allowing the construction of 1 durability ships might be a way for shipbuilders to test designs cheaply. They're just not sure if this many guns and this much weight is too much or not so they build a cheap 1-dura sample ship and try it out.

 

[JobaSet]

Again You are making problems, not solving the ones you have.  I am going to give this a few more weeks but don't see me playing much longer.  You want PVP but every single thing you do or have done, just makes it harder and harder to build boats.  Everything about this is BAD and a waste of time. 

[OneEyedSnake]

I am sorry, but are you actually trying to kill this game? MONTHS to build ships? Our hundreds and in some case thousands of hours of crafting and sailing in this game being "unusable due to database changes and will have to be removed from the game. " And what do you mean we dont use grey, green, blue, and purple ships? I go through tens of them for fleet ships and for cannon fodder and to just have a low risk fun gameplay.. "For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality" Isnt that how it is now with wood types??? Are you saying that if we want to put better sails on our ship it will somehow magically make my wood weaker? Where are you devs coming up with that one? I understand the hull being weakened if it different wood type as it is now or less wood, so less armor, thats fine. I also like the more crew less hull space, that makes sense. But really, making things just disappear and making it takes months to rebuild one ship after losing tens of them? Yea. no. If this happens i am out. And i bet a lot of others will be as well, including bad reviews and honestly telling people this is just a huge time hole where youll get bored before you can do anything and quit. 

[PongoNW]

I gather your 1 dura comment means that you will do away with the durability concept and every ship sunk is lost. 

[huliotkd]

if you introduce 1 dura ship (i love) and limited ammo (i love less...very much less), you have to change actual situation.

 

battle need to resolve in 2-3 broadsides with quite big crew losses and morale loss, also out of boarding mode. (2-3 crew shock, automatically surrend).

so limited ammo has sense

 

1 dura ship ok, but reduce resources needed to craft and make hull little bit stronger

 

ship bonus must have no malus like now. malus depends only on type of wood.

[Celtiberofrog]

Dear all,

We bought NA in beta situation, we are therefore considered as testers.

We are helping the devs to reach the best game compromize before official release.

When the game will be "finished" we won't have to buy it.

Every gold, ships, ressources etc... that you are stocking are not supposed to be part of the testing.

Trust the devs as they are relying on your feedback, they're far from willing to screw their creation.

Try to be acting more for general interest than personal glory...

cheers

[Stilgar]

I think at least one wipe before release is unavoidable. Otherwise no chance to test new features properly.

 

However, dear devs, please choose wisely what assets to be left. Leave too little - need for grinding will cause delays in testing and dissatisfaction. Leaving too many assets might make the history effect too prominent and stay in the way of new game play (e.g., the latest patch).

 

I think at least the following assets must stay:

- combat XP level

- craft XP level (leave BPs or not, that is the question though)

- a selection of ships (5-7 ships, to be discussed ); ships awarded might be combat XP dependent

- reasonable/handsome starting sum of money to get economy and crafting going

 

I suppose the above starting point would allow a reasonably quick restart of the action.

[Wesreidau]

I'd honestly be all right with the rest of the proposal and the full wipe if it weren't for removing quality levels. I see absolutely nothing gained by it. As I've said and others are saying, the problem is the premium to go from a grey ship to a gold ship is not nearly enough compared to the price of making that ship in the first place. The lack of balance in the crafting recipie made us make nothing but exceptionals. The devs simply did not plot out the power creep from making exceptional ships only 5%-10% more expensive than basic ships. It is because of that lack of planning and an unwillingness to accept that great things need to be hard to get that we see the quality feature ripped out. And don't call it a 'false feature' because it was poorly implemented. It was poorly implemented. Dozens of people are explaining how to implement it correctly, by raising the price of high quality levels geometrically rather than linearly, but for whatever reason we're ripping them out.

 

And because we rip out quality levels, we're going to see a ship wipe which threatens to tank player count. Frankly telling us there's a ship wipe in a few months and to save our resources does more damage to play than anything else.

[JobaSet]

I am still getting PvP. 

 

It is sometimes like prison though....

 

The PvP I want, I aint getting..... the PvP I am getting, I dont want.

Yep They don't Care.  Only way to pvp now and not really care is if you have 2 extra alt account to build your stuff for you.

[MDDonnergott]

Devs please do what you think is the right direction and if it turns out bad you can sill adjust accordingly.

Everybody that will stop playing this game because of big changes like these are welcome to do so. You do not understand that this game isn't finished, you do not understand game development and therefore are no loss to the community should you leave.

[Wesreidau]

Devs please do what you think is the right direction and if it turns out bad you can sill adjust accordingly.

Everybody that will stop playing this game because of big changes like these are welcome to do so. You do not understand that this game isn't finished, you do not understand game development and therefore are no loss to the community should you leave.

 

Hi, I was a developer for Project Reality. I understand game development.

[DragonfireActual]

A trade off system is nice  This might just be the ticket. I'm running the idea of increased weight in exchange for upgrade slots through my head,the cargo hold won't matter on a fighting ship but weight especially a lot of it could have an impact. I'm not too sure how far one can take it though as it is counter intuitive to add weight and sluggishness to an upgrade intended to counter exactly that. I'm still of the opinion the UPGRADES offer tradeoffs to the hull,rigging,crew and guns.

 

The slots themselves don't need downsides,the upgrades themselves do.

 

An Improved Magazine adds X? tons of weight but the obvious improved reload rate,resistance to DETONATION is missing!!!.

 

Pellew's Sight's offer the obvious improvement to shot dispersion but reduce ROF or increase aiming time by X? Aiming for accuracy always slows ROF,remember slow deliberate shots count.

 

Extra Hammocks clutter deck,reduce ROF or crew transfer to other positions of the ship,slow transfer to repair/survival? Same as Marines?

 

Copper Plating...this one is a tough one. Ships had to have these or shipworms ate the ship. Any speed boost was a secondary benefit. Ships bottoms  had to be CLEANED to keep speed. Cleaning is hardly an upgrade! An added maintenance expense for sure. Remember one of USS Constitutions commanders called her a slow sailer,the next Commander cleaned several tons of sea life from her bottom and she was once again fast. No one could answer why the previous commander had failed to comprehend and address the problem.

 

Lightweight Ropes and Blocks X? reduction to weight and hitpoints.

 

Optimized Ballast...-X to heel and +X weight added to the hull,-X reduced speed and -X response time to rudder input and manual sail. Should probably be a permanent upgrade or a variable slider the Capt can adjust in port at any time in exchange for labor hours. Ballast wasn't something to be taken lightly,improper adjusting by inexperienced Captains could lead to damage or capsizing.

 

Muskets and Pistols X weight and reduced Magazine capacity for main batteries.

 

Optimized  Rudder X reduction to hitpoints.

 

The slots themselves should be of no consequence in terms of ship mass. What is added to them however should have an impact.

 

What of the opposite to the current upgrades? 

 

Lightweight ballast -X weight reduction +X to ship heel,speed and acceleration.

 

Reinforced Rigging -X to sail deploy and and turn +X to hitpoints.

 

Lightweight planking -X to hull HP and +X leak +X speed   Wood type does this and an upgrade to the effect would be redundant.

 

ECT ECT...

 

To keep it simple and sum it up,for many current upgrades there needs to be an opposite model. Obviously there is no opposite to Extra Hammocks,Marines or Powder Monkeys. And I still think Basic ships should still have a 3/5 slot layout.

 

 

If the Devs want to be truly creative and allow the players a little personal touch to their creations they could implement slider bars to adjust a variety of ship qualities both in the initial build and at ANY time  throughout the ships service. It would also knock out some of these upgrade/slot issues  and place ultimate accountability for build and balance on the shoulders of the Captain.

 

A slider that adjusts plank requirement and thus either increases or decreases hull thickness.

A slider that adjusts frame requirement thus effecting weight and hull HP values.

 

The ballast could be something adjustable in port at any time at a cost of labor hours and/or gold. Give the Captain more realistic control over one's ship. The ability to trim the ship out just to said Captains liking,if the Capt overloads the ship with ballast and guns the risk of sinking before cannonball holes can be plugged is increased drastically.If he loads too light the ship could heel over and as mentioned,capsize A nice and realistic variable tradeoff can be had. No one can say it's over powered!

 

Perhaps rigging can be a port based slider too? Increase or decrease rope count and sail weight and crew required and hitpoint +/- at the cost of labor hours/gold to the Captains liking? Again using a slider system with major tradeoffs that can apply in various ways cannot be called over powered or imbalanced. You made the choice,live or die with it!

Edited November 2, 2016 by (NPG) DragonfireActual

[Ser_Slack]

Wonderful. All these crafting changes should have been dropped in bulk not piecemeal. As it is there are people that have just wasted hundreds of hours moving outposts ect ect around for the new conquest/crafting mechanics. And joba hit it. A person needs a "fighting" account with appropriate outposts and a crafting account(s) for everything else.

As for durabilities just make it like elite where you insure your ship and pay xxxx amount to have it replaced.

I don't mind the proposed changes and like I stated on another thread I just don't have the willpower to rebuild a few more times before release. At the proposed wipe it'll probably be time for a break if not before.

[Slamz]

I gather your 1 dura comment means that you will do away with the durability concept and every ship sunk is lost. 

 

I took 1 dura to be an optional build type. Instead of 5 durability for X cost, you could choose to make 1 durability for X/5 cost.

 

This would be seen as worth it if you just need, say, a storage cargo ship or to test out a design idea. Especially with all these new factors in how ships are built, you might want a 1 durability "test ship" to try the concept out before building the real thing. Might be a number of tweaks you want to do before building your "real" ship.

 

 

That's my take, anyway.

 

Dozens of people are explaining how to implement it correctly, by raising the price of high quality levels geometrically rather than linearly, but for whatever reason we're ripping them out.

 

I don't see how that will help.

 

I don't think you can dangle an option in front of players that is flat-out better and then tell them the only thing stopping them from having it is grinding money and resources. They will grind until they burn out on grinding and then they'll quit.

 

I think the tradeoff idea is better, where "spend more" doesn't get you a universally superior ship. Then it's like Surprise vs Victory. The Victory costs a lot more but isn't a flat out superior ship. If you're hunting traders, for example, you're not going to do it in a Victory -- you'd never catch anyone! You'd do well in a Surprise, though.

 

We do need ship cost to have meaning (or else there is no economy and thus no game) but I don't think making superior gold ships exponentially more expensive is a good idea. You'd still be left with a game where nobody wants to settle for a blue.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Slamz

[admin]

I'd honestly be all right with the rest of the proposal and the full wipe if it weren't for removing quality levels. I see absolutely nothing gained by it. As I've said and others are saying, the problem is the premium to go from a grey ship to a gold ship is not nearly enough compared to the price of making that ship in the first place. The lack of balance in the crafting recipie made us make nothing but exceptionals. The devs simply did not plot out the power creep from making exceptional ships only 5%-10% more expensive than basic ships. It is because of that lack of planning and an unwillingness to accept that great things need to be hard to get that we see the quality feature ripped out. And don't call it a 'false feature' because it was poorly implemented. It was poorly implemented. Dozens of people are explaining how to implement it correctly, by raising the price of high quality levels geometrically rather than linearly, but for whatever reason we're ripping them out.

 

And because we rip out quality levels, we're going to see a ship wipe which threatens to tank player count. Frankly telling us there's a ship wipe in a few months and to save our resources does more damage to play than anything else.

 

some quality differences will remain depending on crafter - but we are not satisfied with current system. Also remember that some systems in EA were added to speed up testing - people just got used to them (for example teleport to capital - or ship transfer to outpost from combat) 

 

wipes always tank player count - as a project reality developer you might know it well. 

 

 

also 

regional bonuses will remain.. so you did not move outposts etc in vain. 

[admin]

What I want to know is how come the [Rubli] Pirates harassing us at Bermuda get Santa Cecilia's and no one else does? I really think every crafter should have equal access to the "special" Blueprints.

 

All tournament winners and runners up received the Santa cecilia (inlcuding esteemed judges who did heavy gods work in setting it up and monitoring spending endless hours on it). Everyone who got to the quarterfinal has it as far as i remember. I also remember it was extremely hard to get people to sign up and it took long time to actually get the required number of teams.  First place also got both ocean and aga blueprint. Second place got ocean ship and aga blueprint. Third place got rattlesnake heavy blueprint and some ship i dont remember. Everyone who reached quarterfinals (including winners) received santa cecilia as far as i remember as a special gift from me personally. 

 

As Woody Allen once said - 90% of success is just showing up. Maybe next time the tournament will be a little bit more popular . 

[thomas aagaard]

When it come to upgrades I do think the different levels are relevant since when it give a penalty to some stand you might want to limit that.
Personally I use Green extra planking with gold Copper plating so the ships is not made slower.

 

And marines should be changed to a max number so you can decide how many you want. Maybe even make marines a type of crew so we got two types: sailors and marines 

[Nash]

project reality is totally different from our game. They dont even have wipe they are not MMO they are a  better version of Battlefield with 100 players per map.

 

For marines modules, the only way I want to see is you can actually hire marines from port just like crews with higher price. So we dont need to have marines modules, I can have as many marines as I want, no more fixed percentage.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Nash

[LeBoiteux]

All tournament winners and runners up received the Santa cecilia (inlcuding esteemed judges who did heavy gods work in setting it up and monitoring spending endless hours on it). Everyone who got to the quarterfinal has it as far as i remember. I also remember it was extremely hard to get people to sign up and it took long time to actually get the required number of teams.  First place also got both ocean and aga blueprint. Second place got ocean ship and aga blueprint. Third place got rattlesnake heavy blueprint and some ship i dont remember. Everyone who reached quarterfinals received santa cecilia as far as i remember. 

 

As Woody Allen once said - 90% of success is just showing up. Maybe next time the tournament will be a little bit more popular . 

 

Whatever the number of participants during the next tournament, the number of players in quarterfinals, semi-finals and final will remain the same... 

[Magnum]

All tournament winners and runners up received the Santa cecilia (inlcuding esteemed judges who did heavy gods work in setting it up and monitoring spending endless hours on it). Everyone who got to the quarterfinal has it as far as i remember. I also remember it was extremely hard to get people to sign up and it took long time to actually get the required number of teams.  First place also got both ocean and aga blueprint. Second place got ocean ship and aga blueprint. Third place got rattlesnake heavy blueprint and some ship i dont remember. Everyone who reached quarterfinals (including winners) received santa cecilia as far as i remember as a special gift from me personally. 

 

As Woody Allen once said - 90% of success is just showing up. Maybe next time the tournament will be a little bit more popular .

 

As a way to hand out "special" ships or BP - it blows great chunks. There are plenty of good players who didn't/couldn't/won't make the tournament - why punish them by rewarding only the "elite" with the cool ships?

 

Even RNJeesus shines on the so-so player from time to time.

 

I am now officially boycotting your "special" ship hand out method ....

[Kloothommel]

So Admin, you just gave me a santa cecilia just to take it away again in a few months time?

 

You are going to make me cry :*(

[Blackjack Morgan]

I'm not sure on all the details until we actually see them in place but generally speaking I like where they are going with ship crafting and design. You will actually be designing a ship that matches your play style. It isn't going to be so much about the mods, hopefully, and more about what you want your ship to be. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say get rid of the mods altogether and simply increase the customization options in the ship building. This way it isn't so much about a quick stop at port and swapping out mods and more about having to make some choices on what characteristics you want in your ship. I don't really see a down side to this approach other than people losing the ships they have stockpiled in port.

 

The only ideas I'm not overly excited about are the ones associated with how many cannonballs or repair kits we take with us. It already takes a long time to get from point A to point B to engage in some PvP and adding in the unnecessary time sink of having to go to port to pick up more ammo does not add much in the form of "fun" if you ask me. I remember the devs very long ago essentially saying the same thing and using it as an example of unnecessary time waste...hopefully you guys still feel this way.

 

Lastly, how about adding in the damn Pirate Frig as a craftable ship again? Pirates don't have allies in the current RvR so give us back our ship!