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Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 11:21 AM, The Spud said:

I kinda feel the same, the last added ship that could be crafted by regular blueprint drop was the Bucentaure I believe.

The PvP events are gankfest, the PvE events are realy boring after a couple of dozen times and PB's are realy hard to get into. Would much rather have PvP kills count towards getting a possibility to get a BP drop, cause even if you're not all that great at this game eventualy you'll get enough killpoints to get a shot at getting a BP.

With the PvP events located where they are, a couple of nations benefit from this while the rest have to run the gauntlet to get ships there.  The PvE events need mixing up - yes, seeing the same ships gets old after the first 20 attempts...  Why don't we have PvE events for every ship instead of just rattlesnakes...  Rotating through all the different craftable ships for the PvE events.

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2 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

With the PvP events located where they are, a couple of nations benefit from this while the rest have to run the gauntlet to get ships there.  The PvE events need mixing up - yes, seeing the same ships gets old after the first 20 attempts...  Why don't we have PvE events for every ship instead of just rattlesnakes...  Rotating through all the different craftable ships for the PvE events.

There is so much unused area in the Gulf of Mexico.  When they said they where going to switch it from three to four events I was really expecting them to maybe throw in one out there some where.  That would give more areas for folks to play in.  There is even a deep water area and shallow waters they can have them in.  THough I think they picked the current areas as they are more central for most players.  You can have a freeport over there like the rest of us and come from them.  Though that is risky as you prob get ganked before you even get to the event.

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When is the ship wipe due please, roughly speaking, next week, next month, next 3 months?

I am not pressing for it to be done on any particular timescale, I would just like a rough estimate so I can plan my play accordingly.

Thanks

 

Edited by NavalActionPlayer

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Hello Admins!

For ships and upgrades i liked the colored theme, and thats for the effort behind the item. For example if i grind my levels in crafting i make low or bad ships just to raise XP and not waste materials for it, when time comes i make a fine ship to use or sell ect. This new system might work in similar state but dont forget the grinders (builders and fighters).

That said im looking forward to a new system with cargo affect amd ship performace, But with collecting stuff for your build and at the end produce a 1 dura ship i dont like, even the current state is a little off with 1 grade ship having 1 dura.

And a new system need a new valuationtime no?

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6 hours ago, NavalActionPlayer said:

When is the ship wipe due please, roughly speaking, next week, next month, next 3 months?

I am not pressing for it to be done on any particular timescale, I would just like a rough estimate so I can plan my play accordingly.

Thanks

 

Why should it matter?  You should just play the same up till the patch and be done with it.  I realy think they should do a resource wipe with it too.  Other wise folks are going to hold there resources and not build things up to that patch or even stop playing like they have in other patch that where to come.   While I would like to know when the patch will come, but I play the same up to the new patches with major changes no matter what cause I'm here to test this game not just play what I like or not.  Though an update of the plan and such would be very much welcome right now. I really think they need to touch pirates finally it's been a year and still nothing.  A lot of folks want something big and I just can't see any release any time soon until they put in this mechanics and get us to test it.  RvR system is there and still needs tweaks, but we got enough nations to test that so lets bring in the pirates stuff now.  Make that the next big patch after the ship building patch is released.

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Why should it matter?  You should just play the same up till the patch and be done with it.  I realy think they should do a resource wipe with it too.  Other wise folks are going to hold there resources and not build things up to that patch or even stop playing like they have in other patch that where to come.   While I would like to know when the patch will come, but I play the same up to the new patches with major changes no matter what cause I'm here to test this game not just play what I like or not.  Though an update of the plan and such would be very much welcome right now. I really think they need to touch pirates finally it's been a year and still nothing.  A lot of folks want something big and I just can't see any release any time soon until they put in this mechanics and get us to test it.  RvR system is there and still needs tweaks, but we got enough nations to test that so lets bring in the pirates stuff now.  Make that the next big patch after the ship building patch is released.

Why should it matter to you that it may or may not matter to me? Please do not tell me what I should or should not do.

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I actively stopped crafting ships some time ago, until we get wiped again Im just not wasting my time and resources to do it, Im already level 50 so no point.

At least i saw someone got a pirate frigate blueprint as a ship chest drop. no point in having it given we are to be wiped of all the bp we worked so hard to learn.

Last wipe was 12 months ago. no problem with wipes. just i would prefer one asap once we are closer to release. even a timeframe within a couple of months would provide some clarity 

Edited by BallsOfSteel
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One thing that is nice about the current grading system is that it adds a bit of granularity to player progress. Levelling up and getting better ships can take a fair while if you are not willing to use exploits and or 'power play' (dishonourable nonsense for kids imo), and so have categorical variations within ship types helps add mini objectives for player progress in between the larger objectives. This is not an argument for getting rid of the current system, just a case for preserving what is good about it. In other words, please make the new system use visuals and language to distinguish between ship; varieties, as opposed to just a percentage change in the stats here and there. A bit of 'flavour' - an algorithm to generate adjectives for the ship based on the stat changes, much like loot in many RPGs ("Race built traders cutter", for example), can really help make crafting and purchasing new ships based on small changes seem a lot more significant and exciting. Colour coding according to ship strengths could also help in this regard. With the current lack of proper UI, the game in general lacks these small but important elements that all come together to make that 'hook' that keeps people playing and coming back.

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On 1/6/2017 at 7:32 PM, NavalActionPlayer said:

Why should it matter to you that it may or may not matter to me? Please do not tell me what I should or should not do.

Sounds like someone is a bit touche there?   The reason is exactly as BallsOfSteel puts it.  The last couple of big patches folks like you stopped playing pretty much and the game grinds to a dead stop for days, weeks and months as the patch doesn't come out exactly when folks expect it instead of keep playing like normal and just worrying about it when it comes out.  We are here to test things, all those pretty pixels of yours are going to be gone any way when they do any wipes and they are way over due for one.  And I don't mean just ships.   

On 1/6/2017 at 10:24 PM, BallsOfSteel said:

I actively stopped crafting ships some time ago, until we get wiped again Im just not wasting my time and resources to do it, Im already level 50 so no point.

At least i saw someone got a pirate frigate blueprint as a ship chest drop. no point in having it given we are to be wiped of all the bp we worked so heard to learn.

Yah they drop all the rare BP's now on a very small changes so folks need to stop complaining they can't get the BP's.  Only the two newest ships and the gunboat can't be dropped BP wise.  Which kinda surprised they didn't add the gunboat into that rotation.

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On 11/2/2016 at 1:13 PM, Bobzillah said:

sorry to be short and simpel ,but a NO to all.

 

have a nice day

Why play a game in an alpha state if you can't handle wipes and changes to game?

If you disagree with the changes you should provide feedback and not just "No" (assumed: I don't want to lose my ships).

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On 1/6/2017 at 10:24 PM, BallsOfSteel said:

I actively stopped crafting ships some time ago, until we get wiped again Im just not wasting my time and resources to do it, Im already level 50 so no point.

At least i saw someone got a pirate frigate blueprint as a ship chest drop. no point in having it given we are to be wiped of all the bp we worked so heard to learn.

I've had my content wiped 3 times already and I started playing in Nov 2014.  I know people who have had theirs wiped 5 times (original batch testers).  It isn't that big a deal and you were warned when you purchased the game this would happen.  At least this time we keep our ranks.

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If I can impress upon the developers, the quality grades system is one of the differentiating factors of Naval Action and its positive attributes will become more pronounced once the game is fully released and new players begin to populate the servers.  Nobody tries to make a bad ship, but ships in real life often have different intrinsic characteristics based on the skill and experience of the designer and builder (look at the differences between the original six frigates of the U.S. Navy, for example, Chesapeake being the great negative standout).  Moreover, captured ships are not inherently of poor quality--reference the way the British captured and refitted many excellently built French frigates into the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars, and used them to great effect.  The French vessels were superbly constructed, but their crews were typically simply less experienced than their British counterparts for lack of time at sea.

Mid-grade ships sacrifice some qualities and upgrades for a lower purchase price, thus allowing newer players to afford a larger ship, if not the most finely crafted one.  They are also ideal lower-end fleet ships, as one does not want to spend too much on a vessel to escort/accompany the player but only has limited utility in battle.  From a crafting perspective, they also hold great potential as stepping stones to higher blueprints--if perhaps the blueprint system can be retooled such that the next blueprint can only drop when one has the ability to build exceptional ships of a type (so one has to work up from basic to common to fine to mastercraft to exceptional), the midgrade vessels will regain their viability.

I hope you will take these thoughts under consideration.

Many thanks--

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It's mid January now, any updates on this?  You have folks that stopped crafting ships and some even stopped logging in again cause they where expecting a patch.  Well it's past End of December and a new year.  Would be nice if we can get some updates once in a while?  We where promised an update of the road map by end of last week and haven't gotten it.  This is why your loosing players among many other reason from playing.   So should we expect this in the next week or so or next month?

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48 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

We where promised an update of the road map by end of last week and haven't gotten it.

Admin said they'd try to get it out by end of last week. It wasn't promised.

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49 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said:

Admin said they'd try to get it out by end of last week. It wasn't promised.

How hard is it to go look at what they have done and what they plan and update it?  As was posted other threads this should be info ready at hand for them to know.  It's not that hard of a thing to ask for a simple update so we know whats going on.  You know since there is suppose to have been a patch at end of Dec/Jan that we haven't heard any updates from.   Last we heard about the Ship patch update was back in November.   We aren't asking for a detail break down of day to day plans, we just would like a little info of what the plans are.  If we where suppose to have pirate mechanics by the end of last year and we don't have it yet, so are we expected to take another 6 months?   What else will come before they get to it if they haven't?  A lot of things need to be updated and told so folks keep there interest in the game.  Right now many folks are leaving cause of expected changes that take months to implement.  Than we wonder when they do we keep having less and less players around.

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I hear ya. I'm also waiting for word on what is next, and the general roadmap beyond that.

Personally - I'm not playing much cuz my eyes just can't handle this UI much anymore. I can't even read the ship build info where it says wood type, regional build bonus, etc. There just isn't enough color contrast to be able to read it.

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Has to be solid. Despite the eagerness to deliver and normal cycle of deploy and adjust the whole crafting and trade associated must be huge. I know a lot of energy and will on the big part of the present daily player base is focused towards combat or the shortest route to get to it but do not underestimate a player force based on environment, trade empire building and crafting.

Personally I think crafting should never be a one man work apart from affordable sloops and schooners.

I do not want to delve further off topic though but ship building, ship equipping, victualing, crewing and lifetime is twins to economy. One makes or break the other. 

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16 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Personally I think crafting should never be a one man work apart from affordable sloops and schooners.

I do not want to delve further off topic though but ship building, ship equipping, victualing, crewing and lifetime is twins to economy. One makes or break the other. 

It takes quite an enormous effort to craft bigger ships now as it is.  I would say a team of 3 people is needed to keep the high quality ship factory going, especially big ships outfitted with exceptional upgrades.  You need guys with silver mines, coal mines, and wood farms, to keep everything flowing.  So, I would argue that while it is possible for 1 man to build exceptional 1st 2nd and 3rd rates, it is really time consuming and difficult.  Accumulation of enough silver, coal, and compass wood is quite an undertaking.  All the other resources can be bought in bulk and shipped where you need them.  Also, now that I need to truck all these materials to regions for specific trim bonuses on these ships, I refuse to sail anywhere without an escort now, preferably 2 player escorts. 

I have been cranking out ships for a long time now and I am also sitting on 4000 player xp from people using my ships.  This is after losing my officer and claiming 3500 xp to rank him up quicker.  So there are lots of my ships out there in the game world being used on a daily basis, but I could not have done this without the help of my clan mates. 

I don't think ship crafting needs to be made more difficult than it already is.  If anything, it should be made a little bit easier and cheaper with the resources as we push forward to a 1 durability ship world. 

Edited by Yar Matey
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It was not "more diffculty" I wanted to point out but the economic needs to be more close to a credible real world.

Just to illustrate a historical situation and have it compared to our game scale.

Replacing a carriage for a 2 pdr cannon would cost 6 pounds, year 1777. The same year and exactly the same excerpt, 1065 yards of canvas to repair would amount to 209 pounds to make a schooner serviceable again.  ( r. Samuel P. Turner St.Augustine's British Period Documentary Records )

6 pounds was, in 1777, equivalent to 970 hours labour standard in the same year. ( historical currency conversion, gold standards, silver standards and manpower hours at average labour wage, google it ).

 

 

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On 1/17/2017 at 11:14 AM, Hethwill said:

It was not "more diffculty" I wanted to point out but the economic needs to be more close to a credible real world.

Just to illustrate a historical situation and have it compared to our game scale.

Replacing a carriage for a 2 pdr cannon would cost 6 pounds, year 1777. The same year and exactly the same excerpt, 1065 yards of canvas to repair would amount to 209 pounds to make a schooner serviceable again.  ( r. Samuel P. Turner St.Augustine's British Period Documentary Records )

6 pounds was, in 1777, equivalent to 970 hours labour standard in the same year. ( historical currency conversion, gold standards, silver standards and manpower hours at average labour wage, google it ).

 

 

ohhhhh, nooooooooooooooooo.

Edited by Ser_Slack

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pokes a stick at the Devs, "Still no update?"  Many folks are waiting on this big change and it's getting near the end of the month.

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They will release the patch when it's ready. You don't want them to rush patches...

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20 hours ago, kumisz said:

They will release the patch when it's ready. You don't want them to rush patches...

That is fine, but give us an update of what the time frame might be.  I know a lot of players that flat out stopped playing and won't return until the patch comes out.  I know many others that just stop making ships to stock up on goods to make new ones.  This killed the server pop the last big patch cause they said it will be out this and that month and than it didn't come out until a month later and we had 3 months of pretty much very low pop action  cause every one was waiting.

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The 2017 timeline just released puts shipbuilding changes in the Backlog category (and not either of January or February):

  • Finalization of ship crafting (delayed until content wipe)

So it would appear that unless people are going to write NA off until after release they may as well stop waiting and just use the system as is.

I can only say that I'm really not having any problems selling the ships I craft if I keep the price reasonable. And by reasonable I mean I usually undercut the going rate but still make a goodly profit.

The flip side of the coin is that I'm crafting *only* gold ships (& using officer perk) to maximize my chances of getting blueprints and level up. Hoping to not lose those in a reset but if I did it wouldn't be the end of the world.

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54 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said:

The 2017 timeline just released puts shipbuilding changes in the Backlog category (and not either of January or February):

  • Finalization of ship crafting (delayed until content wipe)

So it would appear that unless people are going to write NA off until after release they may as well stop waiting and just use the system as is.

I can only say that I'm really not having any problems selling the ships I craft if I keep the price reasonable. And by reasonable I mean I usually undercut the going rate but still make a goodly profit.

The flip side of the coin is that I'm crafting *only* gold ships (& using officer perk) to maximize my chances of getting blueprints and level up. Hoping to not lose those in a reset but if I did it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Yah just saw that too as some one pointed it out, but why haven't they updated this page than with that content.  This is the stuff that pisses folks off.   So I'll let folks know there won't be a wipe some time soon or until further notice.   They have been really bad about there updates and giving us some feed back. And that was posted in last years, not the 2017.   So folks haven't been checking that one as it was also locked so you can't add feed back to it.  I didn't even noticed they updated.

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