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Forthcoming shipbuilding changes [Heavily Moderated]

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Main post updated to answer some of the questions raised in the topic:

  1. Regional bonuses will remain and NPC ships as well will have them too 
  2. Regions and map will not change thus your repositioning to new areas will remain valid
  3. ETA for the changes is somewhere between end december - end january. We will first add land in port battles and some other previously promised things.
  4. Wood types will remain and will affect ships stats, what will change is how the ship general stats and upgrade slots and other elements are determined during crafting, giving more options to a crafter to build the ship just for him (or for his buyers)
  5. The current proposal is a proposal and might change based on what is found during the design stage. 

 

 

So my question is, with the devs past tendency to nerf everything in the game that give you the ability to build ships with to counter big ships with massive side structure and extra planking and such like the trincomolee pre nerf speed why the sudden desire to give us the ability to craft ships that have those differences?

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I mean lets be real here. The devs tendency to nerf anything that could give someone a divergent gameplay style is what has forced everyone into cookie cutter ship design.

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It seems to me that you're switching one set of ship building variables that we have to micro-manage with another set.  Keep in mind that the more complications you throw in front of people who just want to PvP, the more you may lose.  This needs a perfect balance to work and all I see is dev's ideas swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other.  KISS...keep it simple stupid, it's what most people want.

Edited by Stroopwafel
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It seems to me that you're switching one set of ship building variables that we have  micro-manage with another set.  Keep in mind that the more complications you throw in front of people who just want to PvP, the more you may lose.  This needs a perfect balance to work and all I see is dev's ideas swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other.  KISS...keep it simple stupid, it's what most people want.

 

Pretty much this.  

 

Don't confuse "interesting" with "fun"

 

14:00

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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To Devs:

 

By "all old ships will be removed" do you mean all ships crafted before Patch 9.96 when Regional Bonuses & extra craft requirements came in; or do you mean in ETA Dec/Jan you will wipe every single ship from the game?

 

 

Can we get an answer to this question PLEASE?????

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Can we get an answer to this question PLEASE?????

I interpreted "old" to be any ships crafted with the basic/common/fine/MC/excep model. So basically anything before this patch drops would be wiped because the database will be completely changed. Only the devs can say for sure, but with the changes they are talking about it sounds like a database change that would require dropping the existing tables.

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I interpreted "old" to be any ships crafted with the basic/common/fine/MC/excep model. So basically anything before this patch drops would be wiped because the database will be completely changed. Only the devs can say for sure, but with the changes they are talking about it sounds like a database change that would require dropping the existing tables.

 

As a developer, if the reason is a DB change that can not support the new format, then everything in the DB will need to be purged.  If it's the ships tables, then say goodbye to ALL ships.

 

I would suspect that with the changes to the construction model, the BP records and formulas would also all change, so odds are the BP's will go as well.

 

I would actually hope that would happen if the ships do, so we can test how hard the BP drops are given there will be no way to increase you chances of a BP drop by building a "higher quality" ship.

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Yuck, I vote no

I want to keep all my ships

kind of kills the "build cheap ships to learn how to build expensive ships" thing

Kind of throws way too many unnecessary hurdles into what for me is a good chunk of the game

I want to keep all my ships

you keep putting the bar higher and higher, this is my evening and weekend recreation. I do want depth, but I don't want mickey mouse

You have a really solid concept coming together, and now you are proposing dramatic changes just before release (in the scheme of things), sounds like a silly move.

Right now you should be building on what you have, adding content, sounds (really coming along), working on that finished and polished UI for in port, national/clan BBS, mp3-4 player, better in port trading and socializing set up, fix the rigging on the ships (the futtock shrouds do not attach to the shrouds of the mast on the lower level, they go back to the mast and wrap around cheeks passing through each other), closing all gunports in the OW, closing gunports on the lynx in the BW, maybe adding some separate non-demilitarized merchant schooners and cutters (look through "search for speed under sail" by chappelle please), Shrink the "town" models on the OW by at least half (this is me as yeah I have done a lot of set and stage design), tweaking resourcing, ship stats, AI smugglers (last night was outstanding), and therefore making sure you have a lot of fun for new and older players.

Otherwise I think the last patch was really cool but still needs some tweaking.

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You have just made a pretty enormous change to the entire shipbuilding aspect of this game.  The fine woods requirements (and relative scarcity), regional bonuses, competing demands for LH (e.g., War Supplies), and re-introducing varying quality in captured AI ships, each on their own merits would've significantly altered the crafting environment.  Taken all together at once, and you've shifted the trade/craft gameplay to such an extent that the playerbase hasn't yet fully adjusted to it; folks are still trying to figure out "the new normal".  And I don't think we will fully reach that state until pre-patch gold ships are mostly attrited out of the players' collective inventory.  That might take a while.

 

I think how the playerbase eventually evolved to meet the new environment might've been pretty interesting.  As one example, I think quite a few players are learning that middling-quality ships aren't necessarily quite so bad after all.  Your 9.96 changes were clearly meant to make Exceptional ships, well, "exceptional"rather than "minimum acceptable".   And from my perspective, we were slowly headed toward begrudging acceptance among the playerbase of that new reality.   Your observation "...not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them."  was certainly true very recently, and still valid for many today.  I think if you had let this process continue, however, for another few weeks, this statement would've become increasingly obsolete.

 

Yet now you've announced another seismic shift in the shipbuilding aspect of this game...before allowing the current paradigm to fully establish itself.  The mere fact that you've announced these changes is going to affect how the 9.96 changes play out.

 

I really don't understand the timing of the announcement, following so closely on the heels of 9.96.

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You have just made a pretty enormous change to the entire shipbuilding aspect of this game.  The fine woods requirements (and relative scarcity), regional bonuses, competing demands for LH (e.g., War Supplies), and re-introducing varying quality in captured AI ships, each on their own merits would've significantly altered the crafting environment.  Taken all together at once, and you've shifted the trade/craft gameplay to such an extent that the playerbase hasn't yet fully adjusted to it; folks are still trying to figure out "the new normal".  And I don't think we will fully reach that state until pre-patch gold ships are mostly attrited out of the players' collective inventory.  That might take a while.

 

I think how the playerbase eventually evolved to meet the new environment might've been pretty interesting.  As one example, I think quite a few players are learning that middling-quality ships aren't necessarily quite so bad after all.  Your 9.96 changes were clearly meant to make Exceptional ships, well, "exceptional"rather than "minimum acceptable".   And from my perspective, we were slowly headed toward begrudging acceptance among the playerbase of that new reality.   Your observation "...not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them."  was certainly true very recently, and still valid for many today.  I think if you had let this process continue, however, for another few weeks, this statement would've become increasingly obsolete.

 

Yet now you've announced another seismic shift in the shipbuilding aspect of this game...before allowing the current paradigm to fully establish itself.  The mere fact that you've announced these changes is going to affect how the 9.96 changes play out.

 

I really don't understand the timing of the announcement, following so closely on the heels of 9.96.

I agree !!!!!

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Except for one thing, I have always thought you should be able to arm the ship's "en-flute", getting rid of guns would add cargo space for cannon weight, cannon balls, ammo, etc. so that you could have a "pirate galleon" in the old style, lots of cargo space and lots of guns, but all the guns small caliber.

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As a developer, if the reason is a DB change that can not support the new format, then everything in the DB will need to be purged. If it's the ships tables, then say goodbye to ALL ships.

Thank you for putting that more succinctly than I was able too. That is exactly what I anticipate will happen.

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You have just made a pretty enormous change to the entire shipbuilding aspect of this game.  The fine woods requirements (and relative scarcity), regional bonuses, competing demands for LH (e.g., War Supplies), and re-introducing varying quality in captured AI ships, each on their own merits would've significantly altered the crafting environment.  Taken all together at once, and you've shifted the trade/craft gameplay to such an extent that the playerbase hasn't yet fully adjusted to it; folks are still trying to figure out "the new normal".  And I don't think we will fully reach that state until pre-patch gold ships are mostly attrited out of the players' collective inventory.  That might take a while.

 

I think how the playerbase eventually evolved to meet the new environment might've been pretty interesting.  As one example, I think quite a few players are learning that middling-quality ships aren't necessarily quite so bad after all.  Your 9.96 changes were clearly meant to make Exceptional ships, well, "exceptional"rather than "minimum acceptable".   And from my perspective, we were slowly headed toward begrudging acceptance among the playerbase of that new reality.   Your observation "...not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them."  was certainly true very recently, and still valid for many today.  I think if you had let this process continue, however, for another few weeks, this statement would've become increasingly obsolete.

 

Yet now you've announced another seismic shift in the shipbuilding aspect of this game...before allowing the current paradigm to fully establish itself.  The mere fact that you've announced these changes is going to affect how the 9.96 changes play out.

 

I really don't understand the timing of the announcement, following so closely on the heels of 9.96.

Timing is very simple to explain. They haven't tested any significant stuff since february but now when the release is intended for decemebr we're rushing unexplainable bullshit out in a 5mins intervals. It feels quite a bit like panic developing - remidns me of writing essays - dont do shit for 4 weeks then write it all in the last 3 days.

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The premise of the OP is wrong.  The new system is making people build and use lower grades of ships, and the system hasn't been implemented long enough to have any sort of a clue of how it's going to affect gameplay.

 

Testing is great and I like doing it, but we've barely started testing this system.  Trashing it in favor of something else is a little premature.

 

I agree and keep telling folks that the patch hasn't even been out but what like a week?  I mean give it time folks and let things just work it out.  One week is hardly any time to play things out.   I have since the Patch built 2 Bellona's, Rennon, Rattler, Bell Poule, LVG and Mercury with a good dozen or two trade ships  So it's not that you can't get these items, you just need to look for them and do a little trading and willing and dealing.

 

When Texas is right he is right.

 

When the EU server went down for 5 hours, the devs gave out Bucentaurs to EVERYONE.   When the US server went down for damned near a day, we got nothing.  

 

When the PVE server went down nothing again.

 

I understand catering to the larger server but the only way to promote growth on BOTH servers is to treat them equally.  

 

Not exactly true PvE went down a while back and they gave them all LVG's.  Like the only ship I have over there other than a basic cutter until I sold my Buc and bought something bigger just for testing cause I wasn't level to crew it at the time.   I don't expect extra goodies when the servers go down but something like labor contract to make up for lost game time would of been cool.  Though the tournaments and giving out ships only on one server except a few events we tested isn't exactly being fair to all servers.

 

Will find the crafters and beg for a special one :)

 

To bad there is no one on PvP2 that could of gotten it or even the chance other than luck when the BP was accidently released.   I'm just lucky I have some clan mates with the Aug and L'Ocean.  Though only one person in nation has the HEavy rattlers, but other two large pop nations have several folks with it.  Yah real fair there when it's pretty much the only ship being used in shallow water.  For a noob it's certain death if you run across an experienced player in one.

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Main post updated to answer some of the questions raised in the topic:

[*]Wood types will remain and will affect ships stats, what will change is how the ship general stats and upgrade slots and other elements are determined during crafting, giving more options to a crafter to build the ship just for him (or for his buyers)

What would you think if only the wood type and regional bonus were the only things in the craft process of the ship?

Upgrades slots were standard for all ships, an increase to the number of permanent slots then reducing the regular slots. Make trims and modules be the features to configuring the ships afterwards allowing players to experiment with what kind of build they want to achieve for their needs, this would allow far more flexibility plus a supply and demand structure on all kinds of modules and upgrades.

And as for the event, tournament and rare items they should not be available as prizes, everything in game should be available via admiralty points, players then can grind how ever they please and save up for blueprints, color schemes, modules, cash or any real items they prefer, via doing it this way it keeps balance and even for all and those really wanting to put in the time will gain them faster then those who are more casual.

Edited by Ronald Speirs

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when you guys make this huge change can you also test out scrapping the multi durability mechanic and just have ships be 1 dura. I never understood why this game , if it wants to be catering to pvp, goes with the multi dura mechanic because that takes soooo much away from the thrill of pvp and possibility of losing a beloved ship. Its like EVE Online, one of the reasons EVE Online became so popular is because of its amazing pvp, the real danger of losing a ship you worked hard for. That is not a crutch that is a huge plus for gaming. sure you may not want to lose that ship at the time but later you realize the thrill of losing the ship was far more real than knowing you can just rinse and repeat with 4 more durability. 

 

so i am all for your changes if you scrap the durability mechanic. 

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Hello Сaptains!

 

We will abandon the 5 color grades for upgrades and ships. Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them. 

 

As a result of testing the final ship quality and shipbuilding system will look like this.

  • Captured - captured (grey) will be assigned to all ships captured (except for ships captured from player fleets) 
  • Сrafted (yellow) - ships built by players
  • Special - events, rewards, tournament vessels, or maybe extremely rare and hard to craft (months of effort required)
Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

 

Definitely will be done

  • For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality
  • If they want to have additional slots for upgrades they will have to sacrifice space or increase weight
  • If you take more crew you might need to reduce hold
  • Cannons and ammo and powder supply will affect cargo hold and will reduce ship performance if you overgun it
Under consideration
  • If you want to take 200 shots per gun instead of normal supply to battle you might need to sacrifice some space (this will solve cases of light ships unloading 10000 rounds in a battle into a first rate)
  • You can determine the number of repair kits you can take for the vessel and affect the weight.
  • Unstable designs - add to much sails (to increase speed) your ship might capsize in some cases
  • Other experimental ideas like 1 durability ships and other changes
Same treatment will be applied to upgrades. 

 

Once this system is coded in all old ships and some upgrades will become unusable due to database changes and will have to be removed from the game. 

 

discuss

 

Update to answer some of the questions raised in the topic:

  • Regional bonuses will remain and NPC ships as well will have them too 
  • Regions and map will not change thus your repositioning to new areas will remain valid
  • ETA for the changes is somewhere between end december - end january. We will first add land in port battles and some other previously promised things.
  • Wood types will remain and will affect ships stats, what will change is how the ship general stats and upgrade slots and other elements are determined during crafting, giving more options to a crafter to build the ship just for him (or for his buyers)
  • The current proposal is a proposal and might change based on what is found during the design stage. 

 

Fine (blue), Mastercraft (purple), Common (green) are not used and thus are useless. Nobody makes them and nobody buys them.

The reason they are not used is because there is not that much difference between crafting green or gold. Just number of resources. Making crafting materials more complex and different will fix this problem, e.g. Green Marines require common cotton (for uniform) which is way easier to get than Fine Satin for Gold Marine's uniform, thus making green marines a valuable option. Right now the difference is only in quantity of the material, but if you already got your hands on the material getting quantity is easy, hence why no one is crafting lower quality.

 

Instead of quality (who would try to make a bad ship) players will select things they want they their ship to have sacrificing other elements if they want to improve one of the characteristics

No one. But the quality should be dictated by resource availability. The higher upgrades should require different higher quality resources/materials.

Once ship is built from poorer quality it should be able to be upgraded to a better quality later. This way people will be able to craft what they can at the time and sail what they could craft and upgrade later as materials become available.

I support the idea of removing colors. Instead I propose to introduce Ship Rating. As you keep upgrading your ship its rating gets higher. The rating of your ship should be visible in the open and in battle to others. No point of having a "wow effect" of a golden ship when its only yourself who can appreciate that.

 

For example if a shipbuilder wants to increase speed it will increase ship cost AND will have to sacrifice the hull quality

You mean durability? Why can't speed have its own quality measure? Bad quality - slower speed

 

 

Cannons and ammo and powder supply will affect cargo hold and will reduce ship performance if you overgun it

I read this as installing upgrades going to make your cargo space smaller. Why not make items / upgrades simply have their own volume parameter. More you add of those items, more space it takes in your cargo. They will be dynamic values, remove them and it frees the space.

 

 

Unstable designs - add to much sails (to increase speed) your ship might capsize in some cases

Bad rigging balance should affect Turn/Speed rate making it unbalanced and show poor maneuverability and agility. Capsizing a ship was done mainly due to human actions like exposing too much sail in stormy weather. Having said that the rigging on such wind would have much higher chances to break before ship would capsize. So this leads to another question:

Will there be something done about manual sailing in the open world when we have to set right sails combination for given Point of Sail in order to gain best cruise speed?

 

 

Other experimental ideas like 1 durability ships and other changes

Awesome! Introduction of 1 dura ships will also increase usage of lower quality ships that simply easier and less expensive to build. People will stop sailing what they can't afford to lose. This leads us back to ship qualities. Historically all ships were of a different quality. One better than the other. If you remove colors, would you consider a dynamic Ship Rating, the figure that is changes when ship is upgraded.

 

 

Once this system is coded in all old ships and some upgrades will become unusable due to database changes and will have to be removed from the game.

Understand that you have to do it. But this will make people again less active TODAY. Who is going to invest time gathering hard to get resources, sail to far distances to craft ships in certain regions if they all gonna be taken away? You will create another player drop due to inactivity. Neither you or us would want that. Will you consider simple replacing those ships with the equivalent new models? Or offer some other type of remedy so our gameplay today is not pointless?

 

 

Regional bonuses will remain and NPC ships as well will have them too

Don't know where to write about this, but honestly this makes no sense to me. Are you saying that same parameter ships were not built in different places? Ships characteristics are dependent on the ship builder, the quality and size of the shipyard and the materials used.

 

I understand that you want to make some provinces more important than the other and you already done that by giving those provinces Fine Wood Types. But what if Regional Bonus will not depend where the ship is made, but where certain type of wood is from? Instead of building at Baracoa to gain Regional Built Strength Bonus, why not get there Baracoa Oak Logs for that region's bonus and build somewhere else? This will also give smaller nations a better chance. They can't conquer some regions, but at least they can smuggle or buy from other players required resources to have that bonus.

 

As for shipyards. You already have hostility level. Its good, just need polishing. Once region is captured nation should continue building influence in the area. Higher the influence - higher level buildings can be made there.

Nation's capital can only have level 1 shipyard so it is essential that nation attempts to conquer more territories.

Remove labor hours completely. Instead add timer to build anything. Higher level shipyard less it takes to build anything hence why players would want to travel and build elsewhere and keep working on regions. Also level 1 Shipyard should accommodate maximum 10 jobs at the time, which means only 10 players can craft at the given time. Each level Shipyard gives additional 5 slots for more players and faster crafting. This will really push nation to extend territories.

 

 

Great game. Please keep up the good work. One more suggestion if I may. You are getting further with the development. The game is forming and getting into shape. It is really a time to introduce a Community Manager. A professional who will deal with issues, write update notes, keep public informed. You guys doing an amazing work on programing this beauty. Very professional work. Please trust another professional to do the community work for you. Maybe there will be volunteers or people that agree to work for a future reward. You will never know until you ask.

 

You are getting into the stage when you can't afford to mess with the community any longer. You can be very right on the subject, but your job is to keep the person in the game (customer for you and a fellow player for us), so being dismissive will not help to achieve this. And trust me I know how frustrating it is to run multinational communities.

 

Your presence will no longer be taken as "that cool developer dude who talks to us", but rather non professional approach. Community needs updates on forum of upcoming patches prior the patch.

You said earlier - wait before crafting anything. We gonna remove RNG. People logged into the game and saw that it was down for update not just maintenance. What would they think? Of course they tried to craft straight away and got pretty annoyed. Your comment appeared too late for them to see. It needs to be done at least day earlier.

 

 

With respect and best wishes,

 

 

[bLACK] Koltes

Edited by koltes
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This is stupid

Uh, my description is entirely valid and not vulgar. It *IS* an insanely stupid idea. That is my opinion and I am free to express it, unless Gamelabs wants to be thought police.

Do not change the quality system

 

Do an asset wipe. With the changes you've made to crafting, people will be sailing in basic ships for a while and it is much harder to keep up a fleet of exceptionals.

 

This is yet another example of you admins over reacting and making a massive unnecessary change rather than making small adjustments.

 

Back before Exceptionals became commonplace, I sailed basics, and common, fine, or mastercraft was a big deal. We can still go back to that.

 

 

Edit rescinded

Edited by Æthlstan
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This is stupid

 

Do not change the quality system

 

Do an asset wipe. With the changes you've made to crafting, people will be sailing in basic ships for a while and it is much harder to keep up a fleet of exceptionals.

 

This is yet another example of you admins over reacting and making a massive unnecessary change rather than making small adjustments.

 

Back before Exceptionals became commonplace, I sailed basics, and common, fine, or mastercraft was a big deal. We can still go back to that.

 

I've never understood why people complain about there being so many exceptional ships. Surely if just about everyone has them then it's creating a fairly level playing field where results in battle come down more to the skill of the player or group of players in the battle, which is a good thing.

As I said in my previous post on this thread I personally feel Mastercraft ships are pretty much redundant but if NPC are going to continue to churn out Basic & Common ships in the shop then there is an argument for keeping Fine ships craftable for that first rung on the ladder for new players, for fleet ships etc. 

 

At the end of the day, we will adjust and if we have Basic/Common from NPC and/or captures, and Gold from player crafting it will be fine as the majority of players will be wanting to sail Gold ships as they do now. If on top of that the devs do bring in additional ways to trim your ship build during crafting, there will be opportunities for players to have some level of customization on top of the trims/wood type/regional bonus we have now which I think will work well.

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As a dedicated crafted I say that - basically - the new quality system it's a good idea.

 

But the problem is that, now (since the fine wood thing stepped in), in order to craft (and therefore test) a top notch ship it takes - really - OR a lot of time OR a lot of gold.

 

So, if you wipe the ships, you should award to people owning gold ships - as a reedemable - a quantity of fine woods (in proportion to the tier and number of the owned gold ships) that will allow them to craft (or have crafted) new ones. This way you will take two bird with a stone: test new crafting immediately and have quickly new high tier ships available to players for testing end-game contents.

Edited by victor
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go go go devs :D  i really like it. wipe if needed , the more changes the better. lets try it out , if it doesn't work , you always go back. i know it's a lot of work for you guys but the only way to finding out what works is trying it. we can debate bout it all we want but basically we don't know how it will work out if we don't test it. 

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ONLY way to test what we just got is to reduce all current ships to green or blue.... NOW

Then we can test how that really affects gameplay and crafting.

 

Next is to test another system - but maybe consider other options first???

 

Your comments here and arrogant dismissal with the remark on a server for real testers.... please.....If you do not let us test concepts to the full extent and then dismiss it the next day it is really taking the p... on us!!

I suggest a different system that would actually give room for all levels of players and give us what most want - TINKERING

We all want to tune ships to our own liking so why these half hearted tests - try out some radically different systems!

 

My suggestion is this:

Slots and slotted upgrades to be removed

 

I see it this way:

Material crafting follows current model with crafting hours

 

Ships crafting is separated into a Shipyard with 1 to 3 slots depending on crafting level or perhaps Rank

These slots can be used for

1 building ships (you can ONLY build a basic ship)

2 modifying ships  (change a trader to carry only aft guns or add chasers to another vessel - tradeoffs needed - one size smaller broadside guns for larger chasers??)

3 improving ships (2, 4, 8 day upgrades to finer qualities and only one quality level per time)

4 rebuilding durability (Ships have durability 1 but the wreck will be delivered to your yard and you can rebuild it)

5 Research (ALL blueprints are earned by researching a captured vessel - this takes time but NO drop rates and you need to capture or buy a ship first - NPC should only sell the basic ships)

 

to get a spread in ships qualities cost in materials and time to build MUST be exponential (2, 4, 8, 16..) - a linear spread makes the cost too easy to overcome and you will see grey golden only.

 

For time cost to build make it depending on crafting level, rank and ship rating. Basically making it impossible for a new player to build a 1st rate. Time requirements can be modified as the spread in ships become apparent.

To implement you HAVE to reduce ALL ships in game to grey and green. Then if it takes a week to make a golden people will settle for a blue - knowing that option 3 in the yard allows for a 3 day upgrade to purple later.

 

Modifying a ship with Marine quarters would downgrade a choice of other options f.ex. speed, hold or cannon size

 

This method will both accommodate new and casual players AND the big hardcore clans - remember - diversity in population will be the only way to make this world perpetuate!!!!

 

I think this solves many of the current issues in one fell swoop :-)

 

 

Edit: readability / font size. ~the Moderation Team~

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This is yet another example of you admins over reacting and making a massive unnecessary change rather than making small adjustments.

Not really, some of these changes has been hinted at by admin and quietly asked for by players since OW was released, even before crafting and EA. Now is the time for massive changes, like admin has stated many times; They can't do that after release.

Back before Exceptionals became commonplace

Noone I know has used anything but golden ships, again, since before EA and by a stretch even crafting. These guys may not represent the so called "normal" player, though. This is why these changes are good, to narrow the equipment gap between the powergamers/big clans and "normal" players. I'm not so worried that "normal" players will get discouraged and leave the game after being slapped by powergamers in top of the line equipment.

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