admin 47,435 Posted October 27, 2016 Hello Captains The fine wood mechanic is unsatisfactory and has to be redesigned. Propose alternatives on how to make a certain resource extremely rare without forcing everyone to build 5 forestries (because of drop rate a-la most other mmos) We are reviewing alternative mechanics of course but maybe someone has an exciting and brilliant idea that is awesome. (or it was posted before and was lost in the noise) 12 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Snow lets go 4,331 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Introduce a new building just for fine wood. Each player can only have maxiomal one of those. Edited October 27, 2016 by JonSnowLetsGo 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoggy 210 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Could make it so regular wood has to be refined into fine wood? Regular people can make money selling bulk wood products to crafters who refine it down and turn it into fine wood? Or something? Or combine regular wood and some other material to create fine wood? edit: Make refining a level 45 or 50 crafter skill? Edited October 27, 2016 by Snoggy 20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3rdguards 68 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) A fine wood forest would work, but It'd have to produce a limited amount, and only hold a limited amount. if you wanted to keep it 'rare' that it. I think it'd also be interesting if it were found occasionally on traders and from PvP, but in return the numbers needed for ships should be reduced since it wouldn't be able to be produced. I also like snoggy's idea of refining, have maybe 30x normal logs = 1 fine, one Edited October 27, 2016 by 3rdguards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elouda 71 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Why not simply up the drop rate somewhat, but restrict production buildings to 1 of a kind per port? So if someone really wanted to 'farm' it, they could set up production in 5 different ports and have to handle the logistics of that. An alternative of 'refining' it might work, as a highish level skill that requires a fair amount of regular wood and labour hours. Alternatively, if the reason for the fine wood was the need to make gold/purple/etc. more rare, why not simply up the regular resource and labour hour requirements of exceptional ships? Gold 8 Notes 50% more hours 50% more resources Purple 5 Notes 35% more hours 35% more resources Blue 3 Notes 20% more hours 20% more resources Green 1 Notes 10% more hours 10% more resources Edited October 27, 2016 by Elouda 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thonys 1,240 Posted October 27, 2016 or . a dedicated carpenter( skills) school. which can be upgraded for ships types (very expensive) . more wood types with density sorts 5 types of density on oak for example .deteriorating wood by aging for certain types of wood >(the ship becomes weaker overtime) . old wood what has been in the water to become better over time (less deteriorating) .more wood types .specialisation on woodworking .time building for better ships (i need more time to make a better ship with certain special upgrades [rigging or better sails or good turn rate) 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alado 252 Posted October 27, 2016 can craft fine from common goods Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Powderhorn 2,624 Posted October 27, 2016 Historically, wood would have to be seasoned, which would take time. That could be one avenue to explore. Tommy Shelby made a point to me a little while back saying that with fine wood, people either build 0 note ships or 4 note ships, with nothing in between. Addressing this should ideally be part of the solution - how do you encourage players to build "good" but not "the best" ships? Lastly, the idea of PvP rewards have been kicked around for a while. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I suspect some combination of the above would be ideal. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
victor 1,598 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) fine wood can be produced by normal forests but take x5 (or x10 or x whatever factor devs will decide) labor hours and/or have a much higher cost for harvesting each log: when you open up craft page of a town where you have the forest you will have two options (i.e. "oak" and "fine oak") with different labor hours/gold for each harvested log . Edited October 27, 2016 by victor 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siegfried 1,016 Posted October 27, 2016 No more fine woods, using only the furnishings and make the silver, gold and red wood rare. Not the furnishings based in the decoration of the 3D model. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RestrictedFromPosting 6,139 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Time is always the more precious resource. Shipbuilding was a matter of months, maybe we can add that ingame. If one ship takes months to build in real life, lets make it take several days in the game, sort of cooldown. I'll explain in several steps the process I have in mind. 1. You build a shipyard. This shipyard have 2 slots at the begining to allow to build 2 ships at a time. (you can upgrade it to allow more slots). 2. You gather the resources (the ones before 9.96). Here you can use the Labor Contrats to speed up the gathering. 3. You select the ship and click to do the ship you wish. 4. A cooldown begins (max 72 hours for a Santisima or something like that). The cooldown would be to simulate the time that takes "to join all the pieces". 5. If you have the maximum ships allowed in queue you cant build anything, even mats. And you cant harvest any of your buildings. This idea comes from here: Name: USS ConstitutionNamesake: United States Constitution[1]Ordered: 1 March 1794Builder: Edmund Hartt's ShipyardCost: $302,718[2]Laid down: 1 November 1794Launched: 21 October 1797Sponsored by: Naval History & Heritage Command https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution Edited October 27, 2016 by Intrepido 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elric 594 Posted October 27, 2016 I wouldn't abandon the concept. I just think you need to refine the percentages and increase the opportunities for players to capture fine woods. Breaking captured ships could give an opportunity to gain some fine wood as well. If the existing buildings produced a more predictable and higher percentage of fine woods it would help. Related - Gold Mods are far too easy to make. If the cost in materials and labor were increased, the ability to fill a 3/5 ship with gold mods would decrease. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yar Matey 762 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Fine woods should be used to craft 1st and 2nd rate ships only. This could be used to throttle the output of these large behemoths. If you want the best ships in the game (1st and 2nd rate ships) your going to need these expensive resources. An alternative to relying on farms to produce the wood, you could make ports produce the fine woods in small quantities and make them very expensive (on the order of 2000-4000 gold per single unit of wood). I may be in the minority here, but I really want 1st and 2nd rate ships to be rare and I feel like these fine woods is a step in the right direction to achieving this goal. Its just that, 3rd rate and below should not require these fine resources to craft to make them more available to the majority of players. Also, I you could make master craft with 3 notes the best ship you can craft without needing a "royalty note" which you can only get from winning a port battle, or some other PvP related event. So if you wanted to craft an exceptional ship, you would need to win a port battle and use 3 low,mid, or high grade notes on top of 1 royalty note. Edited October 27, 2016 by Ultravis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JollyRoger1516 716 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) I'd also say that compass wood shouldn't repalce the fine wood type. Currently people with 5 forests could still end up having a day of no fine woods jsut because of the compass wood blocking the drop. Compass wood is only needed for knees and even a ship like the santi doesn't require a particularly big amount. And again I simply can't agree to limiting the numbers of 1st Rates. The map will still overflow with the same ships over and over just because one ship will dominate the mpas. Rather limit the number of AI first rate fleets isntead of palyers as in the end those that actually enjoy playing 1st rates will suffer from these limits and nothing much will change. Edited October 27, 2016 by JollyRoger1516 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sven Silberbart 901 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) I think the best (and fastest) solution: Dont add a new building or something. Make it needed to craft Fine Log from Log. e.g. 1000 "Fir Log" + 2000 LH to craft 1-3 "Fine Fir Log" for example (numbers needs to adjust) Edited October 27, 2016 by Sven Silberbart 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Gizbo Teach 0 Posted October 27, 2016 *make it so it cost 100-500 of the normal log type to make 1 fine log with 10-20 LH per log to make Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonnydread 31 Posted October 27, 2016 Tommy Shelby made a point to me a little while back saying that with fine wood, people either build 0 note ships or 4 note ships, with nothing in between. Addressing this should ideally be part of the solution - how do you encourage players to build "good" but not "the best" ships? That is actually quite easy, you have to implement diminishing returns. Green Ships should be a lot better than grey ships, but not that more expensive to craft, while gold ships should not be a lot better than purple ships, but a lot harder to produce. 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grundal 199 Posted October 27, 2016 That is actually quite easy, you have to implement diminishing returns. Green Ships should be a lot better than grey ships, but not that more expensive to craft, while gold ships should not be a lot better than purple ships, but a lot harder to produce. +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inigo Balboa aka Ronda 143 Posted October 27, 2016 Like many people suggested - make a fine wood craft-able from regular wood. Add an officer skill or crafter's level requirement if that's too simple. But no special buildings please. I also like the idea of using fine woods only for SOLs, 'cause crafters need to make some "excellent" ships nobody likes/buys just to get higher-rates BPs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elouda 71 Posted October 27, 2016 That is actually quite easy, you have to implement diminishing returns. Green Ships should be a lot better than grey ships, but not that more expensive to craft, while gold ships should not be a lot better than purple ships, but a lot harder to produce. This. Right now the costs for fine wood are really wierd; Grey - None Green - 2 'units' (50 wood for connie) Blue - 3 'units' (75 for connie) Purple - 4 'units' (100 for connie) Gold - 5 'units' (125 for connie) Looking at this, its exactly the opposite of what it should be - green/blue should be the most efficient use of fine wood, not the worst. Suggestion; Grey - none Green - 1 'unit' Blue - 2 'units' Purple - 4 'units' Gold - 6-7 'units' 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Purple Ronnie 32 Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) I can't suggest anything that hasn't already been said, but I will say this; RNG is a terrible game mechanic, so I'm happy to hear that you're looking into this. Edited October 27, 2016 by Purple Ronnie 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pagan Pete 972 Posted October 27, 2016 I like they current system, just up the amount of fine wood to say 25%. It would be simple to do and realistic. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) It's fine, we're just spoiled with solo players being able to run a production line for exceptional 1st rates without trouble and only complain because it sucks compared to what it was before, not because it's bad. Imagine how rare and expensive 1st rates would be if it was like this - they'd truly be kept only for special occasions. And the feeling of capturing one - a worthy prize! Only thing I would change would be to perhaps make compass wood attainable in some other way rather than competing with fine timber production when harvesting, let it run its course instead of making kneejerk changes (hell, most econ changes will probably have to be tweaked post-release anyways). And perhaps make the cost/benefit more exponential so that people start to question if those extra top notch percentage increments are truly worth the effort. Edited October 27, 2016 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Connor 882 Posted October 27, 2016 Labor hour cost is the way to go IMO, combined with the already mentioned diminishing returns on bigger and better ships. Never underestimate the ability of players to grind gold and resources, but you can't grind more labor hours. Great equalizer. Much more enjoyable gameplay when a shipbuilder doesn't have to spend their limited time ingame running round far-flung parts of the Caribbean and hauling long distances just to build competitive ships. If a 1st rate cost 15k hours to build and the 3rd rate costs 3k, you won't seen any more 25 vs 25 1st rate battles. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickard 518 Posted October 27, 2016 Could make it so regular wood has to be refined into fine wood? Regular people can make money selling bulk wood products to crafters who refine it down and turn it into fine wood? Or something? Or combine regular wood and some other material to create fine wood? edit: Make refining a level 45 or 50 crafter skill? would like this idea !! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites