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Alts for port battles activities - BAN WARNING


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3 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

Two Neutral ports have been taken and a third set, but not taken.

You dug up an old rule that doesn't even apply to this situation. This was written in late 2016, there were no hostility missions, hostility was generated through OW fleets and PVP only.

For the period of testing until release using alts to generating hostility is a bannable offence.

When it says "using alts to generate hostility" that is referring to sinking alts in the OW in place of OW AI fleets to put hostility on a port. Which isn't applicable at all to the current situation.

Now can we please stop creating new threads about the same stuff and actually give the devs a chance to make a decision about it?

There are several things wrong with this response:

1) They were neutral but were located in a county well out of the range of pirates or French. Capturing them should have been impossible without taking the capital first, so who owned them is irrelevant.

2) Hostility can only be gained through hostility missions now.

3) 'Using' doesn't not specifically mean 'killing'. If alts were involved to allow players an advantage that they can't otherwise obtain on their own, then I think that counts as alt abuse.

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22 minutes ago, Latron said:

There are several things wrong with this response:

1) They were neutral but were located in a county well out of the range of pirates or French. Capturing them should have been impossible without taking the capital first, so who owned them is irrelevant.

2) Hostility can only be gained through hostility missions now.

3) 'Using' doesn't not specifically mean 'killing'. If alts were involved to allow players an advantage that they can't otherwise obtain on their own, then I think that counts as alt abuse.

Lets not also point out who exactly UWU is the alt of, only one player in that clan and it's some one you's alt that just posted in this thread/page.   Makes you wonder why he would make such a post?

Again I'm not asking for punishment, but the ports need to be set neutral and a hotfix deployed. If after Devs make a post and they keep doing it until hotfix is deployed than punish folks.

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57 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

Two Neutral ports have been taken and a third set, but not taken.

You dug up an old rule that doesn't even apply to this situation. This was written in late 2016, there were no hostility missions, hostility was generated through OW fleets and PVP only.

For the period of testing until release using alts to generating hostility is a bannable offence.

When it says "using alts to generate hostility" that is referring to sinking alts in the OW in place of OW AI fleets to put hostility on a port. Which isn't applicable at all to the current situation.

Now can we please stop creating new threads about the same stuff and actually give the devs a chance to make a decision about it?

Santiago de Cuba was first reported as the Russians using a rat alt. If this is the case, then the "old" rule would still apply. If alts were used in any manner by any nation to raise hostility at any port, then it is clearly a bannable offense.

"This was written in late 2016, there were no hostility missions, hostility was generated through OW fleets and PVP only."

  • Does a 2016 rule still apply today? Yes
  • Did exploiting nation have Hostility Mission for ill-gotten ports? No
  • Does this mean the Hostility Battle was found in the Open World? Yes
  • Does this make the Hostility Battle an Open World Battle? Yes
  • Does this mean that the "old" rule was broken? Yes
  • Does the punishment state a ban? Yes
  • Does this mean the exploiting players would be banned, especially considering the repeated offense? Yes

Do I believe they should be banned? No, because the devs have not specifically stated that this is or is not the intentional way to play with Frontlines restrictions. If this is intended, then Frontlines is a waste of time and should not have been developed nor deployed. Until the devs say either way, sadly, this is what to expect from these kind of players. The very moment the devs make a ruling on this exploit is the very moment this activity should cease by rule. Whether it gets patched after declaration or not, at that moment it is definitely a bannable offense.

OOoooooorrrrrrr the exploiting nations could just stop on their own because everyone else knows this is not how Frontlines is intended to work.

Edited by van der Decken
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2 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Santiago de Cuba was first reported as the Russians using a rat alt.

Rat Player.  Not a rat alt

Edited by Guest
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9 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Lets not also point out who exactly UWU is the alt of, only one player in that clan and it's some one you's alt that just posted in this thread/page.   Makes you wonder why he would make such a post?

Only two clans have taken ports using accounts (players maybe) from other nations and neither of them are pirate. Yet you seem to focus mainly on pirates in this thread? Lets not forget VCO set Saint Marys, reported exactly how, and it was hot fixed the next day. You're welcome. We are squeaky clean when it comes to the current situation. You should actually be pushing for BF to return Sant Iago to the British.

19 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

If after Devs make a post and they keep doing it until hotfix is deployed than punish folks. 

Of course if the Devs make a statement on the matter, we will comply with anything they say. But what are we supposed to do until then? Let Russia claim everything while we sit back and hope for a Dev response?

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Just now, --Privateer-- said:

 

Of course if the Devs make a statement on the matter, we will comply with anything they say. But what are we supposed to do until then? Let Russia claim everything while we sit back and hope for a Dev response?

Dafaqhuhyousay? rats are "allied" with Russia. If rats were really trying to "stop" russia then they would be attacking russian ports....all of them.

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9 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

Lets not forget VCO set Saint Marys, reported exactly how, and it was hot fixed the next day. You're welcome. We are squeaky clean when it comes to the current situation. You should actually be pushing for BF to return Sant Iago to the British.

VCO will be squeaky clean when they drop Saint Marys and let it go neutral. 

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2 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

We aren't trying to stop anyone, we just want a fair shot at claiming ports which are currently neutral.

I bet you'd like to stop the US. Why else would you take a port right by their capital? Also, exploiting isn't fair. You should probably know that.

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6 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

Only two clans have taken ports using accounts (players maybe) from other nations and neither of them are pirate. Yet you seem to focus mainly on pirates in this thread? 

UWU that flipped La Des in the shallows is a pirate clan.  Might want to get informed before you go saying things.  It’s the only pirate clan I mention using the alt thing.  

5 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

We aren't trying to stop anyone, we just want a fair shot at claiming ports which are currently neutral.

Than you could on day three tool ports in the regions pirates captured the day before.  I do believe y’all have one close to Mort so no reason to keep St Mary a port you took with a reported exploit that we are all thankful was found and got fixed before released.  I do believe there is still ports to capture in some regions pirates own and well you could attack the Spanish and brits now since y’all have region next to each other.  Also Russians are right next to y’all too.  You have multi options other than to exploit to get on US coast line behind lines.

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:
8 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

Only two clans have taken ports using accounts (players maybe) from other nations and neither of them are pirate. Yet you seem to focus mainly on pirates in this thread? 

UWU that flipped La Des in the shallows is a pirate clan.  Might want to get informed before you go saying things.  It’s the only pirate clan I mention using the alt thing.  

I believe what I said is still correct? Only two clans have taken ports. Maybe you are the one who is ill-informed?

Edited by --Privateer--
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15 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

I believe what I said is still correct? Only two clans have taken ports. Maybe you are the one who is ill-informed?

At that time I think there was still a port battle in the works, but since we seen they no show which was the right thing to do.   Thank Morty for us the next time you see him, please.

Again most of us aren’t looking for punishment, just the right thing done and a response back from Devs.  I don’t think most of us US players knew it was a European holiday yesterday so we didn’t know why we where getting no response from Devs.

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On 10/21/2016 at 9:46 PM, admin said:

or the period of testing until release using alts to generating hostility is a bannable offence.

  • Report a person who is an alt or was an alt 
  • Report a port that he was helping to get hostility on
  • His account will be investigated and if he is found to be exploiting the mechanics he will get banned from the game until release.
  • His most active trading partner accounts will also be investigated and might be cleared from assets if they are his only trading partners.

 

Well... The dilemma is that we are getting close to release and the game still is based on game mechanics that allow the use of alts to generate hostility (and to sabotage OW battles). I think that those clans that used alts recently in the way they did, did the developers and the community a GREAT favour. They showed that mechanics has to change before release. It is about time to make sure that players cant use weaknesses in the mechanics this way.

I would be very sad if the Developers starts to ban players that only use ordinary game mechanics instead of changing the way the mechanics works.

Why would I be sad? First and foremost because players should not be banned because of things that game mechanics allows.

And because it limits the use of creativity in the game. I  play this game to its very limit! That is my playstyle. In all games i use all ways that is possible according to mechanics. I hate cheaters and cheat mods, but if game mechanics has ways to move ahead faster and most dont use, it, I will do so.

I remember War Thunder where it was possible to move the thank in an area that made it not visible on the Karelia map. I did so and shot all enemies in the back without ever being visible on the minimap. I even found a spot that I think noone else, or very few, found. I did not hesitate to spawn camp the WT maps with my tanks too if i could. 

How did the developers react to this kind of "creativity"? By banning players like me?

No. They changed the borders and the minimap instead so that players could not move outside the visibility area. And they added a few rocks here and there that permanenty destroyed my favourite camping areas. They realized that mechanics worked the wrong way.

I remember Empyrion. I and some others in the clan I were in at the time found a way to kill monsters in a faster way and get all the good stuff in the "mine" in an easy way, without breaking against the game mechanics (but not clearly as they imagined it could be used). A couple of well placed explosives was anough and a plasma cannon or two. 

What did the developers of Empyrion do? Did they ban my clan when they found out (since more and more people used that method ) Did the owner of the server ban us? No. The owners reported to the developers and the developers changed game mechanics in a patch.

It used to be possible to camp in a specific warp zone too btw, it is no longer possible. Game mechanics changed.

Or World of Tanks. I have forgotten the name of the map. You could drive up the mountain with an ELC AMX and I did so many times and shot enemies in the back. The Devs added a rock there. 

The Devs has stated that we are close to release. Bugs like the possibility to rase hostility with an alt has to disappear from game mechanics before release. Yes, it might break the stated rule from 2016, but I would say that that which happened was good. Now we all see that the game suffers a lot with that kind of bugged mechanics and that has to change.

If i was a developer I would thank the testers that put the spotlight on this. Perhaps award them with a Sankta Cecilia or a Diana? 😉



 

Edited by Ligatorswe
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30 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

I believe what I said is still correct? Only two clans have taken ports. Maybe you are the one who is ill-informed?

Beside the question if some cases are intelligent but questionable uses of loopholes or just violations of rules you should try to imagine what this kind of playing style is doing with the population of average players. You are an excellent veteran PvP player and you know the rules and the loopholes by heart. You know that the player population in your time zone is not high. Don't you think some actions are just counterproductive if we want a game with a high player base?

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3 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Beside the question if some cases are intelligent but questionable uses of loopholes or just violations of rules you should try to imagine what this kind of playing style is doing with the population of average players. You are an excellent veteran PvP player and you know the rules and the loopholes by heart. You know that the player population in your time zone is not high. Don't you think some actions are just counterproductive if we want a game with a high player base?

In my opinion, there would be more US timezone players if there were more US timezone ports. As it is, there are very few ports which US timezone players can actually set port battles so we end up doing the same port battles over and over, and fighting the same people time and time again. It is bound to become boring. This was true before the wipe as well. The US nation actually has a chance to put Kidds and Bermuda in the US timezone and I wish you luck in that area. If you don't think you can hold the islands alone I'm sure pirates could assist, for a share of those Madagascar Jewel taxes of course.

sorry to be a bit off topic admin 😉

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присоеденюсь к срачу на тему обузов и эксплойтов. Иностранные граждане могут воспользоваться переводчиком. Уважаемые разработчики когда клан SORRY обузил пб снимая все это так же на видео вы забанили их мгновенно,и все аргументы из разряда "это игровая механика,это разработчики дали такую возможность" и так далее не работали,но когда это делают люди из БФ  лояльные к вам разработчикам и хвалящие вас за абсолютно любое действие(я надеюсь все понимают как тут можно было сказать если не пытаться быть политкоректным?) так вот им за это ничего нет. я не считаю что БФ нужно банить,я не считаю что вообще за поиск дыр в игровых механиках нужно банить,но я считаю что вы должны быть последовательны и действовать по таким правилам которые сами определили и если вы начали банить за эксплойт одних будьте любезны банить и других.иначе складывается ощущение что одним игрокам в игре можно абсолютно все а остальным за подобное сразу бан.
Dear foreign comrades, please use a translator, as I am not sure that I myself will be able to correctly construct my thoughts through a translator. I hope that everything will be correctly understood.
и да дабы не быть голословным
ice_screenshot_20190502-122538.thumb.png.5c7cb9f0a84b30b23499a072eec42666.pngice_screenshot_20190502-122615.thumb.png.ee893f3245cf299850ae664b8bb3c959.png
или договорная накачка напряженности не считается? и договорные бои в открытом море тоже? тогда можно весь список того что запрещено а что нет,а то мне очень сложно самому разобраться когда я нарушаю а когда нет.
 

Edited by soulfuor
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What if this loophole was used by the main account of other people, as in, not an alt of some russian/pirate/french player, would you change your opinions? Would it make sense to change your opinion on the matter? I think not.. 

 

Some of you people here are trying to find a 'loophole' to ban the other people that are "abusing" / "exploiting" an existing mechanic that the devs forgot to take into account when making the fronline system. If I where to use my main account to abuse this loophole, would that make everything alright? I think not. Some here are defending the people abusing a loophole in the mechanic as if this would speed up or force the devs to change things faster.. which seems just as insane to me

 

I would say however, abusing the loophole in the current hostility mechanics is testing the game in bad faith. As far as I know the bug/loophole/exploit was found, was then reported and was then not used by the initial reporting player. The devs see the report, will work on it. To keep abusing the mechanic like this under the guise of testing/forcing dev action is, I will say again, poor conduct and testing the game in bad faith. 

Edited by DeWoudt
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2 hours ago, soulfuor said:


 

И кобылка была моложе и телега еще ехала... 

Если вы не заметили, то за это время политка немного изменилась. От активного участия перешли к наблюдению. Модерация чатов стала слабее и предупреждение  выдают только по праздникам. Про баны вообще молчу. Банить перед релизом - бред , особенно такую пачку игроков. В 2017 обнуление могло прилететь любому. Сейчас никому не прилетит. Ждём 3000 онлайна и пачку новых банов :D

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1 hour ago, dron44I said:

И кобылка была моложе и телега еще ехала... 

Если вы не заметили, то за это время политка немного изменилась. От активного участия перешли к наблюдению. Модерация чатов стала слабее и предупреждение  выдают только по праздникам. Про баны вообще молчу. Банить перед релизом - бред , особенно такую пачку игроков. В 2017 обнуление могло прилететь любому. Сейчас никому не прилетит. Ждём 3000 онлайна и пачку новых банов :D

с такой политикой боюсь не будет 3000 онлайна никогда,ибо оценки у игры от этого лучше явно не станут,репутация тоже.во всех играх есть косяки это норма,но кумовство,своячество ммм... такое нигде и никто не терпит. ))и не стоит говорить что это не двойные стандарты а просто все поменялось,ничего не поменялось когда я просто указал на один эксплойт мне прилетела угроза мгновенно это было всего месяц может даже меньше назад)я всего лишь сказал что есть такие то дыры и что помешает их использовать,со мной тут же начали говорить так будто я читак какой то )))при этом некоторым позволенно на стримах лупить договорные бои в которых они выпускают из боя врага,юзать стороннее ПО (в два окна ж через сэндбокс гамают и ему подобные) и так далее.уверен на 99% что если так сделаю я,мне перманент прилетит мгновенно)
З.Ы. насчет телеги с кобылой согласен ))

Edited by soulfuor
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6 minutes ago, soulfuor said:

с такой политикой боюсь не будет 3000 онлайна никогда,ибо оценки у игры от этого лучше явно не станут,репутация тоже.во всех играх есть косяки это норма,но кумовство,своячество ммм... такое нигде и никто не терпит. ))и не стоит говорить что это не двойные стандарты а просто все поменялось,ничего не поменялось когда я просто указал на один эксплойт мне прилетела угроза мгновенно это было всего месяц может даже меньше назад)я всего лишь сказал что есть такие то дыры и что помешает их использовать,со мной тут же начали говорить так будто я читак какой то )))при этом некоторым позволенно на стримах лупить договорные бои в которых они выпускают из боя врага,юзать стороннее ПО (в два окна ж через сэндбокс гамают и ему подобные) и так далее.уверен на 99% что если так сделаю я,мне перманент прилетит мгновенно)

THIS is the point.

And if so many people complain and WANT (rightfully I'd add) a clear and plain statements and decisions is because THEY ALL WANT to play in a 3000+ online server in next months.

It's not the punishment of the exploiter what matters.

It's the fear that repeated lack of action will kill the game on its birth.

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

THIS is the point.

And if so many people complain and WANT (rightfully I'd add) a clear and plain statements and decisions is because THEY ALL WANT to play in a 3000+ online server in next months.

It's not the punishment of the exploiter what matters.

It's the fear that repeated lack of action will kill the game on its birth.

All well what's end well.

It's legit use friends or alts in other nations to bypass frontlines.

Let's go on.

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2 hours ago, Shocktrooper Basteyy said:

I know somehting the devs could do:
 

They just allow alts being in the same Nation to Prevent stealing where the other Nation can't do anything. In this case they could catch the Trader if he wants to run out of Harbour. 

I mean, the best fix is that the only clan & nation that can gain hostility is the clan that started the hostility mission. This would allow big clans to help smaller clans get ports and would circumnavigate this whole issue as only that one nation would get the points. 

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2 hours ago, Galt said:

I mean, the best fix is that the only clan & nation that can gain hostility is the clan that started the hostility mission. This would allow big clans to help smaller clans get ports and would circumnavigate this whole issue as only that one nation would get the points. 

Thats the best 

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On 10/21/2016 at 10:46 PM, admin said:

 

Clarification. By abuse we mean directly generating hostility for the enemy by means of sinking or surrendering. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

All well what's end well.

It's legit use friends or alts in other nations to bypass frontlines.

Let's go on.

Please stop misreading our posts and trying to push them to other situations.

We have zero information from the recent tribunals that alts were surrendering or alts were killed to generate hostility. If there were such tribunals you should contact mods and/or Ink and cross post in the tribunal. if it was not done.. its the reporter's fault. Empty witch hunts about potential collusion are not going to cut it here - Mueller does not have time for us to investigate this too and we have to time to make screenshots for the reporters. 

 

Informal alliances are allowed and if you informal ally will let you use his hostility missions its allowed. Its diplomacy. There is no sinking of alts in this and you spend time sinking bots (risking enemy to enter your mission). 

Sinking alts to gain hostility or marks or other rewards is not allowed STILL And will cause bans. Using alts to block hostility missions is not allowed and can be reported - but it must be a valid report, have no off topic just reporting the issue, providing proof of what happened, and providing enough information to help prove that that blocking player is an alt. 

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