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Splinter damage feedback - EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

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victim? i got out alive , but it made me notice how broken stern rake is wen all you need is a surprise that turn quick to win again bigger ship

but agreed on sail yard part totally , but it will basically stop the ship if the sail yards was turning at realistic speed and turning at full ruder even on modern frigate it will slow the ship a lot if you keep going left and right at full rudder you basically lose half the speed if not more
 

Edited by jppsx
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Stern damage is pretty brutal, but it forces players to be more tactical. Not exposing sterns, and actually maintaining some form of logical formation.  Namely not leaving line ships solo, and not abandoning your lineships when your job as a frigate is to escort them and protect them from rakes. 

Also jppx, you where graped after the first pass, protect your stern more and work as a group.

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Again, It's not the rake damage that should be adjusted but the ships agility/ Sail yards are turning too fast in manual sailing - they should be 3-4 times slower. Then all ships will become less agile - it will be much harder to turn through the wind and much harder to perform a rake.

But current system works fine for me. It's not that hard to not show you stern or at least show it at an angle to receive less amount of damage.

Finally the stern tactic "skill guys" are punished :)

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Its a real pucker factor moment when I realize I'm inevitably going to be stern raked during a turn and my only solution is to give the shot an odd angle.

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Okay, so after a few weeks of intensively testing that new system, I have to say I kinda like the way it's going, but for me there needs to be a balance between realism and game fun. Raking 208 crew off an indiaman in a surp in 1 broadside or 178 off a trinc might be realistic (not even sure on that), but in this game where ships answer to manouvers instantly and therefore a rake is easy to obtain (if you're facing not so experienced players), it is a little bit overkill IMO.
Also, I dont see the point of Grape atm if you can do twice the damage with ballshot.

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Can't argue with the observation that these age of sail ships are far too maneuverable. Especially seeing as I've "complained" about the exact same thing. :P

But devs, if you decide to tweak this - please make small adjustments. Say increments of 10-20%. I can't help but think this could be adjusted each week and regular players wouldn't be caught off guard by a single big change.

Disclaimer: I am not advocating changes that will make stern raking next to impossible. But should it be possible by one ship more than once or twice in one battle?

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1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

not even sure on that

It isn't. Far from it.

Edited by Ixal

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Fact is you still have to hit crew hitboxes INSIDE the ship to cause the casualties this just takes a bit of practice and knowledge of the ship you are shooting at.

The splinter damage makes the balls to explode.  I have understood you do not have to hit the guys.

Shots from bad angle are also making pretty heavy casualties.

...

It is simply obvious that the game is now broken.  Sad that we have to have even conversation about this obvious fact.

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9 hours ago, Vaan De Vries said:

Again, It's not the rake damage that should be adjusted but the ships agility/ Sail yards are turning too fast in manual sailing - they should be 3-4 times slower. Then all ships will become less agile - it will be much harder to turn through the wind and much harder to perform a rake.

But current system works fine for me. It's not that hard to not show you stern or at least show it at an angle to receive less amount of damage.

Finally the stern tactic "skill guys" are punished :)

Indeed, the next change should be focused on the ability of ships to turn. I can currently whip my Rattlesnake through 180º (from 90º-270º) like crazy with (purple) Optimised Rudder & Lightweight Ropes & Blocks, and I can spin it round against the wind with 4 knots to spare on the other side. It is almost as though I'm doing 'doughnuts' in a ship. So long as turning is adjusted to slow it down, perhaps introduce acceleration/decceleration into turning. That way I would hope we'll see far more broadside-to-broadside action as turning at the wrong time may open you up to a rake. That way we can keep devastating rakes but it will require greater seamanship, luck and a good aim to be able to put yourself into the position to rake and perform it effectively, as such they should be devastating.

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The point I had there, if I'd finished the thought, was that I come out of being against the wind with four knots to spare, then my ship rockets off, accelerating quickly and back into a tight turn to bring another battery to bear extremely quickly. However, don't that let distract from my main point, which is that it is our ability to spin the ships around so quickly that allow us to perform rake after rake. Rather than adjusting rake damage now, the emphasis should be on dealing with these 'doughnut'ing ships.

Edited by Rikard Frederiksen
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12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I knew changes were coming, and all of this rage quitting over all of these changes...  So many children who play this game.

God forbid people suggest changes to make the game better...

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1 minute ago, Hodo said:

There is suggestions then there is whining.  Some of the people put good suggestions.  Others did not.  They just made really poorly worded complaint threads where all they did was cry and bitch, with no real counters other than "WHAAA GIVE ME MY OLD STUFF BACK!"

And your "L2P nub" posts are better?

There have been enough posts which detail why the rake damage is not a good idea. Read them.

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Take a step back guys and chill.

The posted conversation on Global sounds good for everyone.

Personally I'd like a different approach but hey everything is cool.

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When you have a combat that is good and everyone says they like it, and so many other companies fail in this task. There is a huge risk to make it all again. If you try to make it more realistic and better with radical changes, you do not have much chance to succeed in that. I am not saying that is impossible, just saying that going from great to great+ is not always that easy.

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2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The problem is, the system before was "meh".  It made no sense that a ship hit with 50+ shots that punch through the hull would hit 1 maybe 2 guys on a broadside.   But now that a broadside shot of the same weight can cause easily 10x those numbers in losses people start crying.  But it makes more sense now.  

I disagree as you know.  The balls should kill then from side hits as well.  The game is broken atm.  There is no balance.

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"Armour" is a non-sequitor.

The impulse transferred to the side is greater (by a factor of around 2x ish) when the shot is marginally penetrating compared to the muzzle performance of the shot. The momentum transfer is greater the higher the thickness is.

The amount of penetration available to guns at close range is over twice the thickness of the heaviest sides at their thickest points, and most of the side is thinner, reducing sharply towards the gundecks and then again towards the topline.

From the volume of the shotpath and relative density, the momentum involved in splinters during the 'thin' target phase is less than that of the residual shot by an order of magnitude... but the thinner the side the less it should cause injury both to the side and to the crew inside. Injury to ordnance and other heavy interior structures (and possibly the far side structures) is higher when the side is thin though.

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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

 

Exactly. If I want to stop someone from doing a massive amount of damage to me quickly I will try and line up my shots with their gunports, so I hit as many guns and crew as possible.  My record right now is 5 guns and 15 crew in a single broadside when trading broadsides with a Renomee. 

Which is relatively low vs rake damage.

IMHO, You have absolutely no sense in your reasoning.  I think we can stop this conversation.  We are not going any where.  I think the whole system is broken and you think it is very good.  We can agree to disagree.

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19 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Which is relatively low vs rake damage.

IMHO, You have absolutely no sense in your reasoning.  I think we can stop this conversation.  We are not going any where.  I think the whole system is broken and you think it is very good.  We can agree to disagree.

You still don't understand why the dev's implemented splinter damage. If the casualties to side would be close to that of a rake THAT would break the game.

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13 minutes ago, Pada said:

You still don't understand why the dev's implemented splinter damage. If the casualties to side would be close to that of a rake THAT would break the game.

You think I do not understand that?

I can see that the communication with you guys should be extremely explicit, so maybe we just agree to disagree.

 

edit...

You simply missed the whole point.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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So which part Mr. Pada and Mr. Hethwill did not understand?

 

The point is..  As the rake damage is very high, people try to do that all the time.  This is breaking the immersion, and also creates very arcade gameplay, and even the battle results are now more unrealistic than before.  Those were not the most realistic ones before either, but now those have absolutely no sense.

So to get more realistic results and increase immersion, hitting sides should cause competitive damage vs rake damage.

As we know(you, me, everyone) that(casualties from side hits) would break the game -> It means that the rake crew damage is too high atm.

 

And just to make sure.  This is only one of the reason why I think rake damage is too high.  Plus, there has been multiple other guys saying very good reasons why the current model sucks.  So don't get stuck to this one reason.  Try to think all those reasons, and why you think those reasons are not true.  When those actually obviously are true.

 

But indeed, lets stop arguing as this whole thing seems like waste of time.  And well, I am not really interested to write the same things again and again.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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Can we try the new model  with the brace and some crew spread all over and actually hiding ? At the moment I think you agreed to disagree and overall the Devs felt the need to address it due to it being, for the majority of players and not the dedicated PvP crowd, a really hard problem.

You must remember one thing. Many players do nothing else than PvP. They rank solely with PvP, they rank officers only with PvP, etc. So it is natural that the skill gap 1v1 is huge. But these are a minority that actually show how well ( or bad ) the combat mechanics work as the average non-pvp-dedicated player can't.

The game had good rake mechanics long ago. Was tweaked back and forth and we are now returning to that sweet spot. This is not the end for sure.

We shall see more changes for sure. And we all won't like them all as a whole but the compromise is important.

 

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You have to ask yourself a question. Why are we going for stern rakes? Well, because the enemy allows us to do so. 9 out of 10 players are still stern tanking or sailing around in Sol's alone.

It's not the game that is broken, the mistakes of the players make you feel that it's broken. If everyone would understand how the "new" system works then everything would make perfect sense. That's what you fail to see Mr. Cmdr RideZ Sir.

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