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Splinter damage feedback - EXTREMELY IMPORTANT

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From my experience, there seems to be a discrepancy between how devastating rakes are for different ships.  If I rake a constitution, St. Pavel, or a 3rd rate, I can easily kill massive amounts of crew.  I was in a constitution, and I raked a St. Pavel, and killed 200+ men.  When I rake a Bucentaure, I kill on the order of 40-60 men. 

 

I also notice a huge discrepancy between the constitution and the 2 new ships in the lower classes, the Indefatigable and the Endymion.  Its not just stern raking though, If I go broadside to broadside right next to one of these ships using grape I am killing hardly any crew at all whereas, if I am in a Constitution and I receive a broadside of grape, the crew losses are devastating (no boarding prep), I easily lose or kill 50+ crew in or against a constitution.

 

It seems as though some ships have become obsolete due to how much easier it is to kill crew on them.  I recommend that the developers look into this as the new meta seems to support certain ships because they are more resistant to losing crew than others of the same rate.  Kind of like the rattlesnake before the most recent set of patches, you simply couldn't kill the crew on a rattlesnake. 

 

I've had the grape issue the handful of times I've tried raking an Indefatigable with my Constitution. Ball works wonderfully however.

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If your skill was that good then you would know how to minimize your casualties in a fight.

 

I know I can take a Teak Trincomalee or Teak Belle Poole and not take more than 10-20 casualties through the whole fight.  The trick is DONT GET RAKED!    If you know how to angle your hull so shots bounce, and if you don't expose your stern unless you can minimize the time it is exposed, you should be fine.  

How many time you were in fights in 1:2 ratio - i mean fight not cat and mouse game but real fight? You cant aviod rake when you surounded. Before we got some chances to continue fight now we don`t - that my point here

Edited by Fred Perry
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I'm not completely caught up with this thread, but I'm seeing a lot of complaints from people that sail SOLs and most of the people that aren't complaining are sailing 4th and above (5,6,7)  

 

I think I'm really beating a dead horse here, but stop sailing Ships of the Line without frigate support!!  

 

I may be wrong here, but I assumed the increased crew damage was a way to increase the value of smaller ships.  The only time I can see that lineships don't need frigate support is during a large scale port battle.  But if you're out sailing a cruise in a SOL by yourself, you are making an assumption that bigger is always better.

 

It's not.

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How many time you were in fights in 1:2 ratio - i mean fight not cat and mouse game but real fight? You cant aviod rake when you surounded. Before we got some chances to continue fight now we don`t - that my point here

I know it's hard but fighting in a line formation is a good tactic agsinst raking fighting outnumbered.

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I am sailing a 5th rate normally.  Does not mean that I do not understand that this is broken.

 

I do not want to sail for example Surprise and rake a Constitution or Bellona to death.  Oh, indeed, we did rake before as well, but...  I think the guys who want this damage are actually experienced players.  No shit Sherlock!

 

If I get massacring rake -> I do not feel that I have skills, I feel that I am exploiting.  I feel that the game sucks.

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Actually on Saturday in a green Trinc made of Bermuda Cedar.   I was able to take on 2 ships, a Renomee and a Belle.   I had the wind advantage,  I stayed at range,   I angled my hull everytime they shot at me.  I think my total casualties at the end of the fight was 26, before the doctor perk.  I forced the Renomee to surrender, and the BP to run.    It took me a little under an hour to beat them.  

 

They didn't get one stern rake on me. 

Come near MT with this trinco we give you lesson how to rake. Can`t belive that two ships with better turning dont rake your stern - those captains must be new to game 

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I am sailing a 5th rate normally.  Does not mean that I do not understand that this is broken.

 

I do not want to sail for example Surprise and rake a Constitution or Bellona to death.  Oh, indeed, we did rake before as well, but...  I think the guys who want this damage are actually experienced players.  No shit Sherlock!

 

If I get massacring rake -> I do not feel that I have skills, I feel that I am exploiting.  I feel that the game sucks.

 

You don't have to feel like you are exploiting, just tell him what he did wrong so he can learn from his mistakes. It will take time until everyone understands how to avoid large crew loss.

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Let's not fall into a "skillz discussion".

 

We all might be right but what is really the overall feeling about it ? It is hard to fall into our own playstyle and dislike it.

 

Maybe not all battles have to end with a ship or ships down. Maybe some battles are decided the moment they start.

 

Maybe it can be reviewed and have a lessened effect but a rake is one of the reference decisive manueuvres, both across the stern and across the bow, in the age of sail references.

 

Across the bow was very risky due to ramming possibility and loss of both ships and that's why few of them are referenced although there's a few... but hey... we don't have ramming damage due to ourselves being ... you know... abusers.

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Funny thing is I talked with the individual who I beat the other night.  And we talked about the tactics used, and he learned.. he latter capped one of my clan mates LGVs... which was sad but funny all the same time.   He used the tactics he learned from fighting me.. which I learned from fighting BLACK...

 

RG0BS1U.gif

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As for me I was in a 4th rate (I don't get out alone with a 3rd or higher rate ship) and got served nicely... I realized later that I lost only 320 men because the rest of them where in the sails.

 

 

 

 

good point :)

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Admin..

 

Make a database search and check what kind of ships were crafted after the patch.  Check what regionals and upgrades people are using.  I do not know what other statistics you have there.  Maybe some kind of battle results logging would be good as well.  This could help you to balance the game.

 

Like for example, is surprises crafted in numbers.  If battle results show that there is not that much rake damage done..  I am probably wrong.

You could also check players who seem to win a lot, and check what kind of setup they have.  And as we are speaking from rake crew damage, you could link to that.

 

Statistics will tell us more.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ
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Admin..

 

Make a database search and check what kind of ships were crafted after the patch.  Check what regionals and upgrades people are using.  I do not know what other statistics you have there.  Maybe some kind of battle results logging would be good as well.  This could help you to balance the game.

 

Like for example, is surprises are not crafted in numbers.  If battle results show that there is not that much rake damage done..  I am probably wrong.

You could also check players who seem to win a lot, and check what kind of setup they have.  And as we are speaking from rake crew damage, you could link to that.

 

Statistics will tell us more.

 

Of course the statistics would tell a lot of crew kills because players are still playing like before the patch and getting massive casualties. We need to wait until everyone understands what is going on.

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Of course the statistics would tell a lot of crew kills because players are still playing like before the patch and getting massive casualties. We need to wait until everyone understands what is going on.

We can check now, and we can check a bit later.  We do not have to make changes now.

 

Tho, I would be surprised if time would change the results a lot.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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The thing is, in the current meta a constitution, build as a frigate killer, is, when assuming equal skill, at a disadvantage against most if not all 5th rates, just because rake damage is so exaggerated. He who can turn the fastest wins because he can rake. The differences in armor or cannons are, at best, secondary to the turn rate.

 

Just look at how small battles are currently fought. Everyone goes for rakes exclusively, even withholding fire to not waste it against the enemies side, just because a rake is so much more effective in combat than everything else.

 

The current rake damage is neither historic nor does it enhance gameplay (it does the opposite).

Edited by Ixal
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The thing is, in the current meta a constitution, build as a frigate killer, is, when assuming equal skill, at a disadvantage against most if not all 5th rates, just because rake damage is so exaggerated. He who can turn the fastest wins because he can rake. The differences in armor or cannons are, at best, secondary to the turn rate.

 

Just look at how small battles are currently fought. Everyone goes for rakes exclusively, even withholding fire to not waste it against the enemies side, just because a rake is so much more effective in combat than everything else.

Pada and Tommy Shelby can probably come and personally teach you how to play.

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The thing is, in the current meta a constitution, build as a frigate killer, is, when assuming equal skill, at a disadvantage against most if not all 5th rates, just because rake damage is so exaggerated. He who can turn the fastest wins because he can rake. The differences in armor or cannons are, at best, secondary to the turn rate.

 

Just look at how small battles are currently fought. Everyone goes for rakes exclusively, even withholding fire to not waste it against the enemies side, just because a rake is so much more effective in combat than everything else.

 

The current rake damage is neither historic nor does it enhance gameplay (it does the opposite).

 

Bow rake or demast the bastard. :P

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I know it has nothing to do with splintering or raking but tagging OW is not a duel even on a 1v1. It will start, most of the time, with a major advantage to one of the combatants.

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Pada and Tommy Shelby can probably come and personally teach you how to play.

 

lol. 

Louis Garneray asked for advice. 

I gave him advice on what to do. Basically i just told him what i know works because i've done it a ton of times myself. 

 

Perry does have a point about being outnumbered. When fighting superior odds it is now a bit harder to win, still possible though if there is a skill gap (Just like before). 

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I got raked and boarded, then my buddy got raked and boarded, by a very well handled Surprise.

 

I'm too impressed to be salty.

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by a very well handled Surprise.

 

Seems like the Surprise is now the best hunting ship out there. Firepower does not matter any more so her small cannons are no disadvantage. The game is 80% rakes now.

Edited by Ixal

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On 11/7/2016 at 6:45 PM, Fred Perry said:

Amount of crew killed by rake is WAY to big imo - not talking here about historical facts but GAME we playing. No variety in tactics at the moment during combat, just kill fast crew like before was same with demasting - 200+ dead in one rake - JOKE. I belive this will be FIXED asap. I can understand that orginal intention was to short fight time but...come on one rake and thats it?. We in PoDW usually fight against superior forces (usually 1:2 ratio) and now OUR SKILL not matter at all since we loosing crew as crazy. Killing fun from game and game breaking imo.

Yeah, and YOUR SKILL was, let me guess, to tank with your stern/bow, right? Well, now you should learn smth else.

 

Imho, the raking damage is good as it is. If you show your stern - you can only pray (for now - maybe later you also will be able to brace). Makes 1 on 1 really interesting. 

But wha't wrong is not the damage itself, but how easy is to get into someone's stern. IMHO, ships agility now is too much. Manual sails should be much slower, wind hould be changing it's force and direction.

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On 11/7/2016 at 8:56 PM, Ixal said:

The thing is, in the current meta a constitution, build as a frigate killer, is, when assuming equal skill, at a disadvantage against most if not all 5th rates, just because rake damage is so exaggerated. He who can turn the fastest wins because he can rake. The differences in armor or cannons are, at best, secondary to the turn rate.

 

Just look at how small battles are currently fought. Everyone goes for rakes exclusively, even withholding fire to not waste it against the enemies side, just because a rake is so much more effective in combat than everything else.

 

The current rake damage is neither historic nor does it enhance gameplay (it does the opposite).

The problem is not with rake damage but with ships being able to turn too fast. Ships should turn MUCH slower like they were during real age of sail. Manual sails control should be much slower. The raking damage itself is pretty ok and historic. But again, histoicaly Surprise won't be able to rake Constitution as easily as it can be done now.

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9 hours ago, Vaan De Vries said:

The problem is not with rake damage but with ships being able to turn too fast. Ships should turn MUCH slower like they were during real age of sail. Manual sails control should be much slower. The raking damage itself is pretty ok and historic. But again, histoicaly Surprise won't be able to rake Constitution as easily as it can be done now.

I don't see how it is historic. The Buccenteure took 11 rakes from 3 deckers to get 400 casualties. Here in this game you can get the same results with 2 or 3 rakes from a ship this size.

The current system simply does not work. Either the turn rate or the rake damage has to go. And personally I think reducing the turn rate of everyone by a big margin would result in a slower, less interesting game than reducing the rake damage to crew (cannon damage can stay).

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