Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Managing expectations

Recommended Posts

The words i try to live by(but some times fail to :P)

 

Expect the worst and everything else is a bonus!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said elsewhere: The key to happiness is low expectations.

"Did anyone die? No? Then it's a good day."

Look at how many hours you have put into this game. If you've gotten 200+ hours, you've probably gotten your money's-worth of entertainment.

If you get that sort of entertainment and turn around and say, "This sucks," either you're a masochist, or you have undue expectations.

We all want this game to be the best it can be. It is consistently improving. But if you're not happy now, take a break and come back in a few patches.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with this post.... BUT....

 

 

There were other developers that had made games based on this era and this area.

 

There was a MMORPG Pirates game based on Sid Miers Pirates! that came out almost 10 years ago.  I used to play it.   It wasn't as good as this as far as ship models went or the damage system but it had a better boarding mini-game. (Nudge)

we said that there were devs like that - they were not fast though. if you are referring to POTBS they were definitely not fast and definitely not open. Most ideas from the community were never implemented. Thats how NA started actually. I was one of the most active POTBS players and devs simply ignored all community suggestions (even those which would definitely be liked by everyone). It was so obvious on what can be improved.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been away from the forums for a week or so, and I wonder if there have been issues that have led to this. However, since this is the internet and all I want to add my input.

 

I have made suggestions in the appropriate areas for things I think the game could do better. However, this is a distant and minor point compared to the gem that the developers have already created. I have hope that it will continue to be fleshed out into something truly magnificent, since in many ways this is a niche area of interest - a truly realistic MMO sailing game doesn't have the fanbase, that, say, a World of Warcraft or a SWTOR does. But that does not make it any less viable or rewarding to those who play. In fact, I think it is quite the contrary.

 

Since purchasing this game in January on Steam, I have put more time into it than every other game I have bought in the same period combined: this includes Doom, Fallout 4, ESO, and a host of other titles.

 

The Developers should keep up their good work, and continue to provide a truly quality product at the pace which allows them to do just that. I will continue to play your game and provide support, suggestions, and feedback where I can.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better to take the extra time to get the patches and development right the first time - as they say in woodworking - measure twice, cut once!

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we said that there were devs like that - they were not fast though. if you are referring to POTBS they were definitely not fast and definitely not open. Most ideas from the community were never implemented. Thats how NA started actually. I was one of the most active POTBS players and devs simply ignored all community suggestions (even those which would definitely be liked by everyone). It was so obvious on what can be improved.

potbs only has 1 dev working on it right now and the game it self is full of bugs like one where someone from the same nation tags a npc in a redzone and the entire sitgroup dcs dont do weekly or hell even monthly maintance now on what you said on the devs dont listen in potbs well guess what? they still bloody dont and even now that they kinda have its to little to late game maybe has iduno 50 max people if that

ontopic with this game i dont care about the dev speed or how often the patches get deployed because guess what yall do daily maintance keep the servers running listen to the community and overall make an awesome game that in all honesty it is perfect just how it is even tho it is in alpha 

keep up the amazing job admin and your dev team take yer time and make things right like you guys are

haters gunna hate but in realality if you where to ask them if they could do it better more than likely they couldent and even if they could their verson would more than likely look like pure dog shit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

welp, I expect nothing so I'm always happy :lol:

 

btw, I actually like our UI since day 1 (sea trial) its simple, easy to use for me. Only one complain is that I dont like the slider :lol:

Edited by Nash
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to the OP there's a lot of underlying statements..

 

One is that patches is never delayed.. This may be true (in a sort of semantic way that disregards the reciepient - and we could all have a truly deep filosophical debate on wether or not the source of information can be responsible for the recieving ends understanding of that information but lets give that one a rest) but I think the info on the port wipe were a bit premature (read a lot).

 

I still play the game, yet I can fully understand why many have battered down and waits for the port wipe and the new mechanic.. This is understandably a source of great frustration - not least if we take the dwindling number of players into consideration. The reduction in playerbase started before the introduction of the port wipe and as such is a genuine source of worry for many players, which should not be disregarded as this concern stands on two collums 1) a concern for the games long term development (if this concern is unwanted then don't go for EA as every1 who signs up for EA gets a sence of ownership of the game that no other developing format can) and 2) a concern for the ingame fun - the best fights I've gotten were against playeropponents.. One of these were a battle in which I was sunk in a connie by VENUM who sailed a trinc I believe.. Got his hull straight up against mine and carroed me to death - I've since learned to keep my distance and use my long guns for what they are.. If these players are not there the fun evaporates and it becomes a mindless grind for pixels and ressources..

 

The second I understand as a sort of lifted finger saying "You don't have the right to complain because we've allready delivered everything we've promised). Well.. If u don't want complaints then don't go for EA.. I was perhaps one of the most vocal in my critique of the events and I remember a posting from admin that was downright disrespectfull.. Ppl understand that EA is an invitation to partake in development and that means getting criticism for ill-thought through content - I won't apologize for that and neither should the devs for delivering content that perhaps was a bit underdeveloped :) (see what I did there?).. I like the politics that has been introduced and just see a few minor tweaks necessary for that to be truly great, especially forcing the nations into more "blocks" atm there's only two and that's a bit superficial.. So there is development and there is definately successes (hope this approval is heard for what it is - a pad on the back and a thumbs up).. I'd like to (like every1 else) see a lot more ships ingame.. Partly for the diversity and partly as a resounding hands up for the devs for making such beautifully detailed vessels. This I know takes time and effort (which I think every1 is aware of but that doesn't prevent us from wanting more, more, more!!).. And I've been (and will continue to be) vocal in my criticism of ingame content that breaks with the declared goal of making this a sailing ship game (like BS cloaking that belongs in the realm of sci-fi) - I won't apologize for that and neither should the devs for ignoring my (continued) criticism - I am aware (reluctantly) that it brings as many problems as they solve to remove the BS cloaking but that does not prevent me from voicing my criticism just as ppl voice their support of the ingame "feature" that really belongs in star trek..

 

On the finishin note (and I do apologize for the long posting):

 

While I think this game do lack content and balancing (and a rework of the pirate nation - there shouldn't be one.. Limit them to 0 ports, no ships larger than 5ths and give every1 an opportunity to "redeem" themselves from the vile ways by for example paying a ransom for their evil ways - that way if u get tired of the pirate life and want PB and 1st rates u can change back to an original nation).. I like this game for a lot of things. In general it's got a decently behaved, well-mannered and grown up community.. There's allways the occasional troll (especially when critizising combat mechanics) but it would be strange if they were absent and all they achieve is belittling themselves so it's nothing most ppl can't handle. I like the fact that devs make an effort to listen to the community (except my criticism of the cloaking devices ingame :) ) and I do respect the effort made both by the devs and the hugely active ingame community.. I mean this game has zero manuals.. I mean nada, zip, zilch... The closest thing to a tutorial u get is the broadside u recieve from the player next to u.. Yet every1 is allways willing to answer postings in the help-chat no matter how noobish they might seem to an experienced vet.. I've played this game for hundreds of hours (don't recall the tally anymore and it's irrelevant) and I think it's well worth the price.. Despite this I've been reluctant to give this game my endorsements - why? I lost a lot of friends from the handling of the criticism of the events and I've still to see a clear cut orientation from the game devs - there's a lot of tweaking in regards to game mechanics especially RoE that currently favors ganking squads and the hardcore players (and lets face it the game is a lot more fun when hunting in groups) yet there is very little in the way of balancing for the casual gamer and there's some of the mechanics that are downright unrealistic and as I've said numerous times belong in the realm of fiction.. I'm looking forward to the new RoE and am cautiously excited about them..

 

Hope this wasn't too long a post for any1 to read it..

 

Regards Bearwall, Lars Kjaer of the Danish-Norwegian nation and a proud member of this community..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal issue is the  lack of polishing  , we have a tester area where there are some of the most pvp experienced players in the game and we are totally under-used,  the patch got put in the game withouth testers test it, ( and if is the mods who test it no offence but majority of mods are pveers with much less knowledge of pvp then the testers group)

 

See the example of the press gang perk,  i dont even needed to join the game for tell you that was  totally exploitable for chain boarding

See the goldpump+pump perk report i sent to you regards essex, bellepoule etc.    

or the social perk., or the free reset of perks.            Or the super armor patch who made 30% of population quit in anger months ago,         you always go from 0 to 100,  never go  step by step in the balancement or introduction of new features that can destroy the balancement.

 

 

An example: the current module system got tweaked since months and months of refining work I heard,  nobody complain about how the modules work at moment, and bam suddently now all modules will get changed again, (they are already not much rilevant tbh, a powder monkey module that cost millions (very rare) give +5%,    how much else you wanna make modules less rilevant +0,5% x liv?                 If you add the idea to make all ships 1 sourvability, that will make only  the firstrates worth of risking a module on it.         That will bring to even less willing to risk in pvp etc etc.   is a chain reaction.

 

 

The tag system, if only the ships that are already in the circle get in,  a fleet cant use faster ships to tag someone for then let the slower one in,  that makes   a fleet of different ship combination totally useless,  So you will either made a full fleet of fast ships "gankers" or a slow fleet who cant catch anything beside another slower fleet.     You not need a genious for see the obvious problem that  a tagged system like that will bring.      

 

 

Another issue is priorities, tbh nobody gived a damn about   fishing, i personally think    fixing pirate politics  would have more priority then a feature nobody asked/was waiting for,        instead finishing a gameplay section (pirates) you add more things,  and pirates are unfinished since what a year now?        Would not have been better finish pirates sytem once and for all instead fishing and random events with bp? who also enraged a lot of ppl and now even need to be remade? (is a mistake i have been seen in some sh i worked for, they put up an expansion instead go back and fix unfinished feature becouse that bring more pubbicity/players/$ in the short term, until the excitement for the new thing go away and ppl return to ask to fix the old unfinished/bugged thing)

 

In all honesty i work as game designer too,    and when you soo focused on make your own game you not have time for playng it,  So you gradually lose the vision of your own game, The players start to know more then you,   I am sure that players with 5k hours in your game can defeat any dev 1 on 1, and they have a superior game knowledge, becouse all we do is playng your game, so we    "test" the mechanics 6/8/10h day.+.

 

See the example of the obviously even on paper unbalanced perks, nobody with game experience will even think to made such perks , becouse any guy with game experience realize istantly how that can be exploited, only someone who  is not playng the game enought can come up wich such idea.

 

You have the testers, just use it.  We suggest stuff but beside that we do nothing..

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chain boarding with the current boarding system...LOL you haven't played lately have you?

 

When was the last time you have captured a ship in a boarding action that had crew left after you defeated it?   I know I haven't since the changes to morale.

 

The tagging system will just take people to adapt.  Instead of running WAY ahead trying to catch ships you may have to act like hunting dogs and chase your prey towards the hunters.   You know... like Fox hunting and Boar hunting.  

 

I know last weekend we used tactics to force the Danes into a fight they didn't want.   We split our fleet, sent the faster ships off out of sight and had them sail back opposite of the direction we were leading the Danes.  When we passed a grid line we gave the order for them to turn towards us and come in from behind.   We turned and chased the Danes into our hunters and we joined also.   Had a 2v1 advantage in that fight because of those tactics.  

 

Stop be a funboy, i was talking when they introduced it, it was bugged the moment we readed the patch notes. now as usual is irrilevant since the morale system changed soo much that a ship get boarded to death (again they go from 0 to 100 )

 

 My point is  that it was soo evidently bugged that is unbelivable that the devs introduced something that broken. (and if someone was testing it, the mods? it clearly show how low they know about the game since they could not filter such obvious mistake) thats clearly show a detachment of in-game experience from their side.  They are not many and they are super focused on development  that will make them losing in-game knowledge and expose them to such mistakes unless they use the testers for avoid such issues.          We didnt got the list of the "perks" otherwise we coul give them a feedback how even on paper some where already totally broken./unbalanced.  (social perk, press gang, free reset of perks, the anti pirate perk +20% reload LOL )

 

There is many players with 5k+ h  of experience in this game like me  and many others in the test sections that love the game who could have been used for avoid this mistakes, who could have been making the devs lose less time on development since they made a thing then patch it then repatch it.    but we are under-used.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can without a doubt say I've enjoyed this game tremendously and played it more than any other multiplayer game ever.  I'm not even a huge gamer.  But this game is something I look forward to playing daily when life allows me to, (much to my wife's everlasting annoyance).  In fact, playing in early access has probably made the game more fun for me.  With big changes coming every month or two months, it helps keep the game fresh and evolving, along with strategy and tactics. 

 

Moreover, this game has an incredible amount of potential as an open world MMO set in the historical age of sail.  Given the steady progress and great changes over the last few months, (Voting, port battle ship size changes, outpost hopping, combat tweaking, etc...)  it seems to be on that path to even more greatness.  I continue to think it could use a touch more "never quite done" aspect to character development, carrots to keep even maxed out players chasing a goal and a dream.  But that's perhaps just something I personally want, that others maybe don't want or need, to keep us coming back a year from now, with the sense that we continue to build towards something every time we log on.  Then again, I already log on despite being mostly maxed out.

 

So to the developers I say this:  Ignore the petulant shouts of the impatient displeased few.  The silent majority love the game and constructively provide feedback to improve the game that you can take or leave depending on the strength of the idea and your resources.  Thanks for working to create such a great game that continues to get ever better.  I think most of us love this game concept, enjoy the current game, and appreciate that it is being improved steadily.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think by playing the game as we all do we are testing it after each patch goes out. 

 

 


There is many players with 5k+ h  of experience in this game like me  and many others in the test sections that love the game who could have been used for avoid this mistakes, who could have been making the devs lose less time on development since they made a thing then patch it then repatch it.    but we are under-used.  

 

I have only 1250 hours of game so I'm not specialist of anything...

 

What you are suggesting I guess is to have an intermediate testing server between the dev internal server and the post patch servers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game is sailing good. It is grand already and NO ONE will stop me from EXPECTING and imagining even greater adventures... not even the devs B)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The tagging system will just take people to adapt.  Instead of running WAY ahead trying to catch ships you may have to act like hunting dogs and chase your prey towards the hunters.   You know... like Fox hunting and Boar hunting.  

 

I know last weekend we used tactics to force the Danes into a fight they didn't want.   We split our fleet, sent the faster ships off out of sight and had them sail back opposite of the direction we were leading the Danes.  When we passed a grid line we gave the order for them to turn towards us and come in from behind.   We turned and chased the Danes into our hunters and we joined also.   Had a 2v1 advantage in that fight because of those tactics.  

 

That is EXACTLY the sort of tactical coordination that makes the game particularly exciting.   "Social Engineering" is the key to big success, but requires some to be leaders and others followers, at least for that battle.  In my military officer training, the trainers emphasized that by having a different trainee be the "team leader" for each "mission" so all were evaluated on both leadership and following battle plan and leader's orders.  Sadly, many don't get it, for whatever reason.

 

~ HK ~

Devs, don't let the whiners wear you down.

 

Keep up the good work.  I have over 600 hours in this game and it hits so many of my "pleasure points" ... far more than any simulation game ever.

 

~ HK ~ 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personal issue is the  lack of polishing  , we have a tester area where there are some of the most pvp experienced players in the game and we are totally under-used,  the patch got put in the game withouth testers test it, ( and if is the mods who test it no offence but majority of mods are pveers with much less knowledge of pvp then the testers group)

 

To be clear, we see the new stuff at the same time you do.  We do not test in advance of new releases, that is all done internally at Game-Labs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great post and it's true we are here testing this game here and should understand that.  Now can we get back to the topic of the Patch.   Any updated ETA of how it's going?  I think a lot of folks rae taking breaks until it comes out and would just likea closer window if any to make plans.  I all ready  slowed down on logging in other than to do Econ myself and it seems lik=e it's getting deader and deader in game cause of folks doing the same.

 

Luckly I got other games doing a great job distracting me right now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was really worried when I first saw this title, I thought it was going to say something devastating about the upcoming patch being something underwhelming, I was so glad to know thats not the case :D

I have been around since the very start of the year, I am not a big game buyer, I usually enjoy strategy games mainly from paradox but this hits the sweet spot for me. I have been looking for this game since playing Empire: Total War, it really hits the sweet spot but what really keeps me interested is the openness of the Devs, much like the development team at paradox, delivering the game is the key priority here, not delivering a product. The open nature and "when its ready" can be a little frustrating from time to time, especially when you know some great patches are on their way, the type that really benefit the things you enjoy most about playing but without a doubt, id much rather play something that is actually done over something that has been rushed to a release date, you guys deliver a quality product and are always happy to share what you are trying to achieve, keep at it, you are doing an incredible job, but still remain humble about it.

 

I have been playing since the very start of January, and while I can't dedicate as much time as I would like to I have far more than my money's worth, as a thank you I do my best to help you out with bug reports when I notice them and throw some ship plans at you now and then too, I am still here, steam says I have over 100 hours more than its next most played competition and its just going up and up, I look forwards to being here well into another year, with more ships and more fun!

Keep at it, you guys are great!

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

non-programmers don't realize that the closer you get to the final product the harder the programming gets.  60% of a program seems to take about 10% of the time and the final 40% takes 90% of the time.  The difficulty of adding features into a complex program increase exponentially and it gets more difficult with each feature added.  

 

Sure polish is something that can be added, maybe pretty UI, tutorials, graphics... none of which will actually improve the game play.  It will LOOK better, but if the game play is not good, your only going to have a polished looking game that does not work.  Polish is something that can wait.

 

Keep on grinding Game Labs, try to ignore the trolls and lord pirates.  I understand the frustration you are feeling, all I can do is voice my support for your development team.   Keep up the good work, I can wait until it is right. 

 

Do the job right, take the time you need, if you don't take the time to do it right, you wont be able to find the time to do it over.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think by playing the game as we all do we are testing it after each patch goes out. 

 

 

 

I have only 1250 hours of game so I'm not specialist of anything...

 

What you are suggesting I guess is to have an intermediate testing server between the dev internal server and the post patch servers?

 

Would help a lot as well give to tester an anticipation of  perks bonus etc so we could give a feedback, filtering the obvious mistakes before they go in the live server

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be clear, we see the new stuff at the same time you do.  We do not test in advance of new releases, that is all done internally at Game-Labs.

 

Then thats what they need to improve imho  a tester server

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe I have been playing the wrong games(?) but but I have never seen a BETA look as good and polished as this ALPHA.

 

Please devs don't listen to complaints from impatient gamers, take time to polish this game to your already high standards.

 

Personally I'd rather wait as long as it take and play a stable, beautifully finished game. NA is well worth the wait.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really guys, its time to lay off the devs for delays, there is plenty of other things to give them a hard time about. ;)  They are running a vary aggressive schedule, the patch will drop when it drops. Remember this is still early access, you "bought" the game to support the development of the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We come across such messages sometimes.

 

 

Would like to comment on slow game development and delayed patches statements as they come up from time to time (sometimes sprinkled with low content point)

We are not "No Mans Sky" and want to manage expectations. Undepromise and overdeliver is what they teach in good business schools in the East Coast.

 

Excellent post and you may rest assured that I for once expect the worse and get the best (with most patches) ;)

Edit:

I bought this game somewhere in Februari this year. I'm gaming for over 20 years now and only game I played more then NA is

Rome II: Total War (with a margin of only 100 hours or so), gives you an idea how much I love all the effort you put in this game.

 

Edited by Dutch Langella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...