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the more i read on the forums the more i see that some of the most vocal people on here are the ones that want a participation trophy. What ever happen to the winner is the winner and the loser is the loser. How has it come to a point in a game meant to have clear winners and losers that we have gotten to were people are complaining about losing is to "harsh". If you lose oh well its part of life... learn from it and get better and fight harder to not be the loser again. This is all the more reason i want 1 dura on ships. 

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Kinda what i think too. If we are all on the same playing field then it wont matter and people will get used to losing ships making pvp fun and it will mske gold ships rare and important.

The one dura thing has been tried in multiple games. It's not impossible but it goes against sequential Pvp fights so it reduces overall PvP. It also exaggerates the player skill differences over time and it also results to promote in game elitism for those prone to it.

Why? Because you and I are very rarely ever going lose a ship. We will be sailing gold with gold mods forever even in 1 dura ships. Those that can't do that will eventually be forced to fight us without even equal gear. They will step down to handicapped gear. Our fights will get easier. Now either the non-hardcore players make a miraculous turn around and start defeating us while sailing those handicapped ships or we just end up dominating the game more. The 1 dura thing only works over time if same skilled players only fight same skilled players. That's not going to happen. To keep our level of PvP challenge up and the frequency of PvP high we're actually better off if they had infinite dura. But then there would be no economic game. So duras need a balance for the sake of Econ and that's about it.

Edited by Bach
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Lots of back and forth about 1 dur ships like it is some kind of noob killing zombie apocalypse. :blink:

 

That's a lot of speculation from one line in the entire patch note! :P

 

Lots of new mechanics in the other 95% of this large patch coming soon.....

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I'm new to Naval Action. Love it so far. My question is, Am I going to lose all my Gold and resources with this update? I play in PVE right now.

No you wont lose your gold or resources.

What will happen is that all ports is gonna get reseted (to see which port is gonna belong to which nation please check the following link http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16468-important-final-map-player-action-required-for-both-pve-and-pvp-servers/ )

If you got any buildings they will be destroyed but you will get compensated by this with gold.

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I like your idea about permanent crafting the mods with the ship. And I think a 1 dura system can work but if we lower the cost and lbhrs of producing a ship and maybe increase the lbhrs we get pr hour. This all together will make crafting a bigger part of the game.

For diversity of ships, builds and trims and equipment, offer for sure, it is something we were discussing yesterday.

 

Yah I think all mods should pretty much be perm to a ship this way.  They go with the ship when it gets captured too and if you want to  change and refit the ship you have to destroy the ones on them and refit with the new mod.  This would work with 1 dura ships or even 5 dura ships.   I still don't think 1 dura for all ships is good cause I remember those days when I was a very bad new player and sunk all the time.  Luckly most of them was in that free basic cutter, but I did loose a few ships early on to just AI.  Lucky the traders I lost where all capture traders so no skin off my back until I thought of the cargo that I scratched up from all over the place to build my first big ship or have some one do it.  Than get set back weeks cause I did something that got me caught and captured. The dura thing I think could be helped that when you get sunk with one of those ships it sends it back to the capital so you aren't right there with your ship to get back into the battle. It's like you bought 5 ships not just one and your going back to recrew one of those other ships at your capital where it should show up after you sink.

DEVS you know its a good idea when Sir Texas Sir and I agree on an idea.

 

SO DO IT!

HOLY CRAP THAT IS TWICE TODAY....did hell freeze over cause I was just saying this in another post...lol

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I dont know how much you even acually play this game but you do realize killing new players in new player ships doesn't even pay enough gold out to fix the ship your in let alone me believing your senareo that " groups of Veterans " are out killing newbs to farm the 30 gold they get split between them each battle.

If you are gonna keep up with your conspiracies can you at least start making them be plausible.

I do not know how much I have earned, but I have not run out of money yet.  I think I am on positive side here.

 

I am not that experienced player, and I play in a very small fleet, if that can be even called a fleet.  The big veteran fleets, those guys should earn millions every evening they sail.

 

...

 

Perfect bragging time guys.  How much your clan fleet earns in an evening?  How much your clan fleet earns in a good evening?

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I do not know how much I have earned, but I have not run out of money yet. I think I am on positive side here.

I am not that experienced player, and I play in a very small fleet, if that can be even called a fleet. The big veteran fleets, those guys should earn millions every evening they sail.

...

Perfect bragging time guys. How much your clan fleet earns in an evening? How much your clan fleet earns in a good evening?

My point is they dont earn million ganking newbs as you claim. Newbs are worthless to farm the millions are made by fighting larger ships.

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My point is they dont earn million ganking newbs as you claim. Newbs are worthless to farm the millions are made by fighting larger ships.

I included not so experienced ones, not so skillful.

 

A man can have max rank and 1st rate, but still he may have not been playing too much PvP.  So these guys are afraid to lose their ships.  They only take fights were they have at least 2xBR.  Even in small fleets.

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No you wont lose your gold or resources.

What will happen is that all ports is gonna get reseted (to see which port is gonna belong to which nation please check the following link http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16468-important-final-map-player-action-required-for-both-pve-and-pvp-servers/ )

If you got any buildings they will be destroyed but you will get compensated by this with gold.

Ok. Thank you for fast reply...

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My point is they dont earn million ganking newbs as you claim. Newbs are worthless to farm the millions are made by fighting larger ships.

Don't make crap in empty port battles either.

 

 

I included not so experienced ones, not so skillful.

 

A man can have max rank and 1st rate, but still he may have not been playing too much PvP.  So these guys are afraid to lose their ships.  They only take fights were they have at least 2xBR.  Even in small fleets.

 

Though if you get some good PvP or full port battles you can make a lot.  I remember while back I was the first sunk in my Merc in a PB, but I got 2 kills and 4 assist.   I think I made over 150K credits and 1.5K xp in a shallow water PB.  It was cause before I died I did a lot of damage and spread it out.  The best way to get the max credit and xp is not the max kills you want to go for max assist.   If your doing fleets don't stay on one ship only until it sinks.  Get over 10% damage on it or more and than move to the next one.  This will help the AI and other players sink that ship and will get you max XP and credits from the battles.   I can't remember how much he made, but my alt had made a level an half in a PvP fight where all he did was help keep the sails down on a 2nd rate (bucc) while the others in the fight caught up with it and than did the rest. I couldn't pen it in my Rattler, but I did what I could to help the team.   So for the new guys remember you can make a lot of xp and even credits by helping the other guys play parts you can do.  Just like in Deep and Regional battles the Mortar Brig is a great way for the new guy to get into the fight even though he can't crew a SOL or even heavy frigate yet.  Even if you come in something like a Belle Poule or Essex put your self ot use protecting the other Mortar brigs, keeping other lighter frigats off the sterns of the SOL's and taking out sails.   This goes for PvP and even the PvE battles.    If you are doing fleet missions and you see AI boarding each other after it clears go toss 2 crew on that ship and send it escaping.  If it's a SOL you get paid for it, if it's anythign else you got a new ship and can break it down (if it was boreded by another player ask them if they mind if you recapp it).  If it's another player ship go in there and cap it back.  There been lots of time we lost ships to a board and they didn't put crew on it only to have us go back and jump onto that ship when we wehre sinking or to claim it at the end of the battle so while we might of got a first rate capped, but we got it back at the end of a fight.   So help out where you can and don't be afraid to just ask.

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Don't make crap in empty port battles either.

Though if you get some good PvP or full port battles you can make a lot. I remember while back I was the first sunk in my Merc in a PB, but I got 2 kills and 4 assist. I think I made over 150K credits and 1.5K xp in a shallow water PB. It was cause before I died I did a lot of damage and spread it out. The best way to get the max credit and xp is not the max kills you want to go for max assist. If your doing fleets don't stay on one ship only until it sinks. Get over 10% damage on it or more and than move to the next one. This will help the AI and other players sink that ship and will get you max XP and credits from the battles. I can't remember how much he made, but my alt had made a level an half in a PvP fight where all he did was help keep the sails down on a 2nd rate (bucc) while the others in the fight caught up with it and than did the rest. I couldn't pen it in my Rattler, but I did what I could to help the team. So for the new guys remember you can make a lot of xp and even credits by helping the other guys play parts you can do. Just like in Deep and Regional battles the Mortar Brig is a great way for the new guy to get into the fight even though he can't crew a SOL or even heavy frigate yet. Even if you come in something like a Belle Poule or Essex put your self ot use protecting the other Mortar brigs, keeping other lighter frigats off the sterns of the SOL's and taking out sails. This goes for PvP and even the PvE battles. If you are doing fleet missions and you see AI boarding each other after it clears go toss 2 crew on that ship and send it escaping. If it's a SOL you get paid for it, if it's anythign else you got a new ship and can break it down (if it was boreded by another player ask them if they mind if you recapp it). If it's another player ship go in there and cap it back. There been lots of time we lost ships to a board and they didn't put crew on it only to have us go back and jump onto that ship when we wehre sinking or to claim it at the end of the battle so while we might of got a first rate capped, but we got it back at the end of a fight. So help out where you can and don't be afraid to just ask.

Yea there seems to be this misconception that veteran players sail around killing 1st level players to earn points of some kind and those people who make those claims do nothing but empty port battles then brag about it.

Very funny stuff.

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Please release the BP's for the ships already in the game. Additionally, the Aggamemnon can't join port battles, that should be changed too.

 

Looking forward to testing, although IMO many of these changes will only benefit gankers, make fights smaller and isolate a few ppl into PvP. I miss the large fights with mixed ships. Can it really be true that these will only be possible by mission ganking? I can imagine how it will look in nation chat.

 

"Got ganked outside X" ... Sorry no one can help, even those right outside the circle.

"5 guys just attacked me in my mission" Sorry we wont spend time going there because the 5 dudes in renomees will eventually leave when we join. 

 

5 ships from britain in rookie zone is attacked by 2 enemies, all are dragged? Then its 2v5. Then 4 guys show up to even the odds (as far as I understand) but only 3 will be able to join because of the BR rule. Leaves the 4th guy outside to wait...

 

Someone in a trader gets ganked outside port X, several ppl are close and no one can help. Yea AI towers will fire at the enemy but this will not prevent the inevitable de-mast and follow up by rock/scissor/paper "fun". 

 

EDIT: Naval Ganking (mod)

Edited by E.P. Juel
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Yet another patch benefiting only the no-lifing clans and taking (yet again...) fun away from the little guys.

 

This is probably the end of solo sailing... Missions staying open, PvP engagements closing instantly, NPC fleets becoming truly useless... The gankers must be laughing so hard. Definitely not the kind of environment where a solo player will want to risk the 1 dura ship they spent so much of their limited time and resources on in roflstomp ganking style battles.

 

Region-specific crafting bonuses, and no regional capital bonuses, because crafters are so going to go set up lvl3 shipyards and supply systems across the map in ports that can be taken anytime by anyone  :rolleyes:

Edited by VonBarb
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I believe 1 duration ships would cripple pvp for most casual players.

Mrdoomed makes a good point on casual play. I too am a casual player but I think I have a more swashbuckling demeanor, (mad) and take risks, I would sumise he does to.

The larger clans and higher ranks may be able to sustain a couple of ship losses a night but the casual player would not.

You here them on TS discussing the 15 Santis they have on stock. No problem for them.

Also surrendering would be non existent and port huggers would become the biggest clan in the game.

I enjoy crafting, travel, trade etc but pvp combat is the most appealing feature for most players.

Who but the richest could afford to lose mods on a 1 duration ship and if mods were ring fenced then super mod players would decimate newbies and casuals. A balance is what is needed and we have that now.

If you make all ships 1 dura you will put too much fear of loss into the players, many of whom live in the green zone now. This would devestate pvp and player base numbers.

Also I often fight larger AI fleets where I am outnumbered or try crazy, daring things, like ram vicous's Bellona with my frigate and then stick to it like a limpet in order to allow team mates escape. (That was fun). Would I try that with a 1 duration modded ship?

(Probably).

But most would not. We need more incentives for people to come out of ports not less.

 

Loss of ships from capture is one thing, sinking of ships is another. When a ship is captured it can always be captured again at a later time. When it sinks.... it's gone. I think ships sink way too easily in this game and there should be more chances for ships to survive battles. I posted about this very subject just a while ago. 

Winner or losers, captains would not let ship sink. It was a loss for all without even talking about loss of lives. There should be alternative end game for disabled boats that have not been boarded and are about to sink.  Check out my post here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16836-upgrades-one-durability-ships-battle-end-game-alternatives/

 

-T

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Loss of ships from capture is one thing, sinking of ships is another. When a ship is captured it can always be captured again at a later time. When it sinks.... it's gone. I think ships sink way too easily in this game and there should be more chances for ships to survive battles. I posted about this very subject just a while ago. 

Winner or losers, captains would not let ship sink. It was a loss for all without even talking about loss of lives. There should be alternative end game for disabled boats that have not been boarded and are about to sink.  Check out my post here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16836-upgrades-one-durability-ships-battle-end-game-alternatives/

 

-T

And this is IMO the issue here. There is a distinct difference between a "real life" captain of the time period, and the gamer of today;

While the captain, having responsibility of hundreds of lives, would never let the ship sink, the player does not really care, he usually fights till the bitter sinking end ( as do the NPC).

I think that the game cannot aim for realism, without having a mechanism that forces "realistic" behavior from the player. 

Perhaps the solution would be to have cheaper ships ( 1 dura or not) and much more expensive crew, this could make the players care more about crew than their current precious golden ships (could be further expanded if the crew gained experience as well) .

- would this be more fun from a game perspective? not so sure - after all then it might just be another thing that the average player was afraid to lose....

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And this is IMO the issue here. There is a distinct difference between a "real life" captain of the time period, and the gamer of today;

While the captain, having responsibility of hundreds of lives, would never let the ship sink, the player does not really care, he usually fights till the bitter sinking end ( as do the NPC).

I think that the game cannot aim for realism, without having a mechanism that forces "realistic" behavior from the player. 

Perhaps the solution would be to have cheaper ships ( 1 dura or not) and much more expensive crew, this could make the players care more about crew than their current precious golden ships (could be further expanded if the crew gained experience as well) .

- would this be more fun from a game perspective? not so sure - after all then it might just be another thing that the average player was afraid to lose....

 

Whats The fun in that?

 

 

Besides... In the Napoleonic age the honor mattered more than life for a lot of officers. 

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XVI. No captain, though much pressed by the enemy, is to quit his

station in time of battle, if possible to be avoided, without

permission first obtained from the commanding officer of his division,

or other nearest flag officer, for that purpose; but, when compelled

thereto by extreme necessity before any adequate assistance is

furnished, or that he is ordered out of the line on that account, the

nearest ships and those on each part of the disabled ship's station

are timely to occupy the vacant space occasioned by her absence,

before the enemy can take advantage thereof.

And if any captain shall be wanting in the due performance of his duty

in time of battle, the commander of the division, or other flag

officer nearest to him, is immediately to remove such deficient

captain from his post, and appoint another commander to take the

charge and conduct of the ship on that occasion.

 

Instructions respecting the Order of Battle and conduct of the

fleet, preparative to and in action with the enemy

Lord Howe, 1782

 

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yea, the ancient brit code, captains losing their ships would face a courtmarshall - what about other nations??

Not convinced the spanish, danish, french or dutch had the same code of conduct.

 

BUT it was not my intend to discuss historical codes of conducts, honor etc. but  merely trying to point out, that the game shouldnt nescesarily mimic historical behavior, if the players anyway wouldnt follow the same.

Edited by dagdriver
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Yes. I posted it with the intention of displaying "human nature".

 

We are playing a game. Loss is part of the game rules and is expected.

 

Our honor in the game, as counter part to RL officers, is based of social reputation as much as skillful use of the game rules. It can either be good or bad.

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When will the fear of losing pixels end?? Yes, it's the time invested. I get it... But is it really that hard to buy or build another one?? What's the point of grinding to get a ship only to be too completely scared to use it? Hell, I often prefer to sail a capped one dura with some cheap store bought mods. Why? Because I can sail it with impunity. What really needs to happen is to make battle outcome depend more on player input than having gold marines and shooting enough sail to slow him down adequately.

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Good game design is not the same as mimic the past. We have books for that. NA is a game with battles, smoke, maneuvers, losses and gains. It's not a sailing simulator. 

 

We want a good, pc game with depth and fun. Too much real time or real life would kill the game. And too much candy stuff also. So it's a balance to be found.

 

The center of all games is: the fun factor.

 

Boring games die.

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Should say, don't PVP all the time don't sink.

I can say from experience that PvPing and PvEing I don't get sank all that often from PvE unless I am messing around in a ship with some odd setup. Like a boarding Privateer in a Master and Commander mission.

It is funny that so many people take out grey ships. I do it from time to time as an emergency defense in places I don't have an outpost nearby. But some people that is all they sail in.

I leveled up in a grey ship because there were no pirates on in my timezone and we had one port when I got the game. You learn to rely on skill not mods.

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I agree with you fox. Games are a leisure activity, therefore FUN.

 

Naval Action is not boring at all.

 

People are boring.

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