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French 4-pdr Corvette 'L'Amarante' 1747 (with Plans)

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L'Amarante

French 4-pdr Corvette

1747 - 1760

12 guns

23.jpg

24.jpg

 

Dimensions (French feet) :

  • Length between perpendiculars : 84'
  • Breadth overall to outside of frame : 22'
  • Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 10'

Armament : 12 x 4-pdr

Built in Brest by Joseph-Louis Ollivier.

Monograph and plans :  http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/Ama/plaquette.htm 

Sister ships : La Palme, 1744 and L'Anémone, 1747. 

 

01511.jpg

http://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t12151-expo-et-conferences-au-pays-de-saint-malo

 

x_img_10.jpg

 

UAKIe39.jpg?1

 

2xG3d0X.jpg

 

Source : J. Boudriot, La Créole, p. 19

 

On 10/23/2017 at 7:03 PM, Malachi said:

L' Amarante took part in a scientific expedition to the coasts of Spain and Portugal in 1751 and was one of the ships of the attempted invasion of Ireland in 1759.

Edited by LeBoiteux
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Can't describe how cute she looks :D She would make a lovely entry-level ship rigged vessel in game. Great post LeBoiteux!

 

Also here is another drawing

 

kXmXuQg.jpg

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Aww, its a baby Renommee! :)

 

Indeed ! Same tumblehome.

L'Amarante's builder, J.-L. Ollivier, was Blaise Ollivier's son.

Blaise built the 8-pdr frigate Le Médée (1740) whose body plan was very similar to La Renommée (1744)...

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It looks, from cursory research, as though la Renommée was designed and built by a different team, but using the Ollivier family's concepts and ideas.

I'm rather surprised that despite my assidiously keeping an eye out on this forum for such little ships that this thread slipped past me. A marvellous little ship sloop, the sort I'd happily sail around in in Naval Action. I would love to go trader hunting in it!

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On 19/10/2017 at 4:07 PM, Malachi said:

L' Amarante. Built in 1747, length 84 pieds de roi, 12 * 4-pounders :

59e8b06a2b2cf_AmaranteMaster.thumb.jpg.b9aa53972a362ed5f498255b4c62837e.jpg

 

DSC_0826.thumb.jpg.bf41a0a345d168011eb1ca9219be392b.jpg

DSC_0788.thumb.jpg.8e97b283d48a08cd031dee3348c88592.jpg

More pics of this really cool model here.

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Are these corvettes more sea-worthy than the Snow in the game?  I've heard a lot of complaints that the NA Snow is not a real ocean-going vessel, and I'm wondering how these corvettes compare in that way? 

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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25 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Are these corvettes more sea-worthy than the Snow in the game?  I've heard a lot of complaints that the NA Snow is not a real ocean-going vessel, and I'm wondering how these corvettes compare in that way? 

What I know about the sea journeys of French 4-pdr Corvettes carrying about 12 guns and built in the middle of the 18th century (from threedecks.org) :

  • L'Amarante was built in Brest (Brittany) and was wrecked
  • La Palme was built in Brest, 'bound to some part of the West Indies' and captured in the Bay of Biscay by the British
  • La Sardoine was built in Nantes, then also captured in the Bay of Biscay. She then sailed for the West Indies and New York.

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25 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Are these corvettes more sea-worthy than the Snow in the game?  I've heard a lot of complaints that the NA Snow is not a real ocean-going vessel, and I'm wondering how these corvettes compare in that way? 

The real non ocean-going ship is Niagara, which isn't even designed to operate on the open ocean. With a lack of fresh water carriage (on the lake you just put a bucket over the side), she has an unrealistic advantage over other ships that have that carriage designed in. Not to mention she's overrigged for the open ocean.

 

These corvettes should be perfectly seaworthy, even if they can't operate their guns in every sea state.

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Little sum-up of the 4-pdr French corvettes ('three-masted ships', 'ship sloops') of NA shipyard, built in the middle of the 18th century and carrying between 12-18 guns :

  • The smallest one with a length (pieds du Roi) = 76'  : La Perle, 1744
  • The best-documented one with the most beautifull hull : L'Amarante, 1747 
  • The most powerful one with up to 18 guns (and well-documented too) : La Sardoine, 1757 
  • The one made by the youngest builder, Joseph-Louis Ollivier at the age of 15 : La Palme, 1744

Which one is your favorite ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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19 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Are these corvettes more sea-worthy than the Snow in the game?  I've heard a lot of complaints that the NA Snow is not a real ocean-going vessel, and I'm wondering how these corvettes compare in that way? 

They were definitely considered very sea-worthy in their time. L' Amarante took part in a scientific expedition to the coasts of Spain and Portugal in 1751 and was one of the ships of the attempted invasion of Ireland in 1759.

La Perle was one of three corvettes - usually used as scouts ahead of the fleet -  of the ill-fated d'Enville expedition in 1747, bound for Canada. And as LB already said, La Palme was in the West Indies (this ship was Suffren´s - then aged 16 - first command, by the way).

Quote

These corvettes should be perfectly seaworthy, even if they can't operate their guns in every sea state.

The height of gun port sill isn´t that bad for L' Amarante, La Palme and L' Anémone (ca. four feet) when compared to ships of similar size like Rattlesnake which had just under three feet. But it´s not that you can do much with 4-pounders anyway, other than frightening poor merchant ship captains :P

Quote

Which one is your favorite ?

L' Anémone :P  Same hull as La Palme and L' Amarante, same builder, too. But she had the nicest looking stern and quarter gallery decoration of the three, in my opinion:

http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/mitglieder/themen/schnitzkurs-1/

Edited by Malachi
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26 minutes ago, Malachi said:

But it´s not that you can do much with 4-pounders anyway, other than frightening poor merchant ship captains :P

Maybe IRL.

But in game, you can fight against the Lynx, the Basic Cutter and even the Privateer, the Pickle, the 6-pdr Cutter or the Brig (Fair American) while looking real good. Because those 4-pdr Corvettes definitely look nicer than more modern ships ! ;)

Small ships also need love (even if they've already been quite a few in game). They are not newb's ships. They're great. Quite a few players including myself like them (OW hunting, fast combat...).

Edited by LeBoiteux
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2 hours ago, Malachi said:

L' Anémone :P  Same hull as La Palme and L' Amarante, same builder, too. But she had the nicest looking stern and quarter gallery decoration of the three, in my opinion:

http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/mitglieder/themen/schnitzkurs-1/

Thank you, @Malachi as you (almost) answer what should have been my next question and that was :

La Palme (1744), L'Anémone and L'Amarante (1747) have been built from the same plan and can be considered as sister ships. According to Delacroix, we are fortunate that the Archives have kept :

  • their shared plan
  • their specific sculpture décoration

I know the naval sculpture of L'Amarante (see OP) but not those of La Palme and L'Anémone. Can someone share them ?

@Malachi : as the French saying goes, "Les grands esprits se rencontrent" (ppl usually add : "et les petits aussi..." :))

Edited by LeBoiteux

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4 hours ago, Malachi said:

:PL' Anémone :P  Same hull as La Palme and L' Amarante, same builder, too. But she had the nicest looking stern and quarter gallery decoration of the three, in my opinion:

Speaking of sculpture decoration, I like that of La Sardoine. Sorry for the bad resolution. Certainly only rough drawings of the real decoration (= British plan).

1) Her stern decoration looks a bit 'sober' (= smaller figures, more (?) windows than on L'Anémone ) : shells/flowers + two small sitting putti holding a badge above the windows, a badge similar to that of L'Amarante :

K8cX3Xm.jpg?1 

La Sardoine

ZHfwUSW.jpg?1

Badge of L'Amarante

2) And the figurehead looks identical to that of L'Anémone, the chest and head of a naked woman carrying something (a sardius ?) :

QBRr9cv.jpg?2 

La Sardoine

YuhvKQr.jpg?1

L'Anémone

 

Conclusion : nice decoration and heavier armament. I might vote for La Sardoine. 

I guess there's no available drawings of the decoration of La Sardoine.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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5 hours ago, Malachi said:

L' Anémone :P  Same hull as La Palme and L' Amarante, same builder, too. But she had the nicest looking stern and quarter gallery decoration of the three, in my opinion:

However, some small differences according to Boudriot :

La Palme (1744) : 

  • Length between perpendiculars : 85.5'
  • Breadth overall to outside of frame : 22.8'
  • Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 10.6'

L'Anémone and L'Amarante (1747)

  • Length between perpendiculars : 84'
  • Breadth overall to outside of frame : 22'
  • Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 10'

Ollivier might have made some small modifications between 1744 and 1747. :)

or these feet are not Pieds du Roi :

gSh0y2d.jpg

On the other hand, threedecks name them sister ships.

And Delacroix ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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Here´s another model of L' Anemone:

 

http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/mitglieder/themen/schnitzkurs-1/

On 10/23/2017 at 11:44 PM, LeBoiteux said:

 

 

gSh0y2d.jpg

On the other hand, threedecks name them sister ships.

And Delacroix ?

Delacroix also describes them as sister ships in the monograph. It´s very probable that La Palme, L' Anémone and L' Amarante all had the same hull form (maybe even La Perle), but differed very slightly in length and breadth. La Perle had 76', La Palme 85' 5'' and the last two 84' - all in pied de roi :)

Edited by Malachi
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Are the original colors of the decoration of these ships known ? As on Malachi's pic above :

  • Royal blue for the background ? 
  • Gold for the woodwork and patterns ? 
  • White for the drapery ?
  • Pink for the skin ?
Edited by LeBoiteux

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21 minutes ago, Sella22 said:

@admin I am begging you to get one of those in the game. We have so much info :D

1) Everything on La Palme, L' Anémone and L' Amarante (plans, history, naval sculpture) here :

bandoamar_5001_350.png

http://gerard.delacroix.pagesperso-orange.fr/Ama/plaquette.htm

2) I'd like to know more on La Sardoine, 1757, especially have a better look on her decoration than what can be seen on her British plans. Slightly bigger than the 3 other, made by another builder and being able to carry up to 18 guns.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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4 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

Are the original colors of the decoration of these ships known ? As on Malachi's pic above :

  • Royal blue for the background ? 
  • Gold for the woodwork and patterns ? 
  • White for the drapery ?
  • Pink for the skin ?

well, colour schemes are a very difficult subject, but prussian blue or red ocre definitely are the most probable choices for the stern and quarter galleries. And the carvings were painted with Naples yellow (depending on the size and position of the carvings, those were protected by guard irons, by the way).  Personally, I'd have gone for red stern, yellow carvings, black wales, red rails and battery painted yellow ocre.

But that blue certainly does look nice 🙂 

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