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Rookie regions - new player experience

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Guess it can be tried, though personally I just went PvE server to learn the basics and then the PvP server, often as a tagging/chasing snow as part of larger OW fleets, so I don't see much trouble with the current experience - though teaching the mechanics is a good thing (we've had new players in snows and cutters dragging in entire fleets to their doom by tagging enemies). Except that there tends to be more silly players solely out to gank newbies nowadays, but this idea would have to go a long way to curb that, I can already imagine veteran players in exceptional-quality and fully upgraded shallow waters ships getting easy kills.

Edited by Aegir

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It is an interesting idea, and I will probably go there, and therefor ruin new players experience. I posted my suggestion previously about this. Not sure if possible, but I think worth considering:

 

New players, maybe up to 1st Lt should not be seen or see anyone above their rank in OW. This would allow a gradual introduction to the game. They will be able to do missions and even engage in PvP with equal ranks. Smuggler Flag should not be allowed during this to prevent port resource raiding. No need for new Capitals

Rookies should be able to play with others. I made a rank and half of one PvP battle and all I did was tag for the team and shot sails cause I couldn't pen anything else.  That is a big XP jump for a new players. It's something we use to get new players into PB's and PvP is that they can level faster doing PvP than they do killing AI fleets.

 

As for VETs going there in Brigs and below taging newbies.  One easly solution is to go in there with your own ships and kill them.  Isn't this how you stop folks that are out side seal clubing your newbies out side you capital right now?  Oh wait some of you guys will sit on your butts and let them get killed instead of helping them.  See the issue here isn't the zone, it's the fellow players.  I know for sure  I will have a port in that area to help them.  I all ready do for shallow water battles wtih the US.  Now it just gives every one one zone that we can all fight small ships in.  Cause the ports are still there to do shallow water battles with.  

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Veterans, do spend time with the newcomers and show them different playstyles, help them enjoy the game ( not help them rank like mad ).

 

I like the whole idea to be honest. All ports are fairly close but still require the sailing bit, the assortment of different landscapes makes for a excellent sense of "good looking" and above all the limitation to shallow draft and RoE. All serves good purpose of a introduction to the game without being overwhelming.

 

This being said, Traders have no rank. ^_^

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Veterans, do spend time with the newcomers and show them different playstyles, help them enjoy the game ( not help them rank like mad ).

 

I like the whole idea to be honest. All ports are fairly close but still require the sailing bit, the assortment of different landscapes makes for a excellent sense of "good looking" and above all the limitation to shallow draft and RoE. All serves good purpose of a introduction to the game without being overwhelming.

 

This being said, Traders have no rank. ^_^

We share some views on this but not others. I see no reason not to try it for the sake of players that want a 1v1 zone. Which is what I think this is really about but being sold as helping new players. I've trained a number of new players. I usually just set them up in an out of the way free city in the corner of the map to level in peace when not PvP with the clan. There never has been a problem for new players in solid helpful clans. Only problems for solo new players.

Consider what this new zone actually offers a real new player.

The false idea that ports and actions are relatively close together requiring little pre-planning.

The false expectation of fast paced action everywhere.

The false idea that tanked out turning geared 1v1 ships are a good idea for OW.

The false idea that you don't need teamwork or a clan to be successful.

When these over coddled new players get into the real OW and discover the truth? Most likely when they sail for an hour to an enemy zone solo, without setting up proper outposts ahead of time and a speed rigged enemy patrol group goes through them like butter. The forum bitching insisting the devs convert the rest of the game into the comfortable noob zone they were used to will be epic.

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Consider what this new zone actually offers a real new player.

The false idea that ports and actions are relatively close together requiring little pre-planning.

The false expectation of fast paced action everywhere.

The false idea that tanked out turning geared 1v1 ships are a good idea for OW.

The false idea that you don't need teamwork or a clan to be successful.

How extravagantly far-fetched.

 

We must abolish tutorials everywhere to avoid giving players a 'false idea' of the rest of the game. Even optional ones must go!

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Bach, false expectations are given by vets to newcomers. ;)  Not by the game itself.

 

We are human beings, we learn by discovery. It is no different in a game. Asking for help is not asking for a handout.

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Bach, false expectations are given by vets to newcomers. ;)  Not by the game itself.

 

We are human beings, we learn by discovery. It is no different in a game. Asking for help is not asking for a handout.

I think your reading the wrong thing into what I was saying. The game will always have soloists in conflict with team style players. An RvR war is rarely is fought by a collection of soloists. This new zone is set to train up soloists. I'm not sure how you came up with me saying players were either asking for or needed handouts.

Like I said, I've trained a number of new players and almost all are successful players now. All they need is someone to show them how the game plays and explain some of the mechanics. I myself PVP'd from Lt. To Commodore exclusively. One of the best features of this game is that players are PvP viable from nearly day one. There really isn't any need for a rookie zone to show anyone how to play it.

How extravagantly far-fetched.

 

We must abolish tutorials everywhere to avoid giving players a 'false idea' of the rest of the game. Even optional ones must go!

Taking what I'm says to an extreme conclusion would be the definition of "far fetched".

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Taking what I'm says to an extreme conclusion would be the definition of "far fetched". 

You are arguing against the inclusion of an optional pseudo-tutorial.

 

That was not an extreme conclusion; it was the only logical conclusion. At least as applies to Naval Action.

 

But your concerns apply to every tutorial in any game.

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Thanks for the clarification :)

A new player would learn more about succeeding in OW from you in one day patrolling Jamaica in Privateers than in a month spent in a tanked out brig in the new zone.

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You are arguing against the inclusion of an optional pseudo-tutorial.

That was not an extreme conclusion; it was the only logical conclusion. At least as applies to Naval Action.

But your concerns apply to every tutorial in any game.

No I am not. Tutorials are good. I am arguing against putting new players in an artificial 1v1 matched BR world vs. the regular world. That isn't a tutorial of OW NA. It's an illusion of something it is not. Tutorials are good if they actually prepare the player for the game. It will also promote some to lobby that the main world eventually be changed to the same rule set that they trained on. There by slowly eroding the RvR war simulation.

THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning. Mostly how to set up outposts, where and why. This goes leaps and bounds further towards keeping them in the game than teaching them where on the hull to hit a Belle Poule. Obviously we teach them both. But learning to succeed in a game with long distances, travel time and uncontrollable battle numbers is more important.

Edited by Bach
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No I am not. I am arguing against putting new players in an artificial 1v1 matched BR world vs. the regular world. That isn't a tutorial of OW NA. It's an illusion of something it is not. Tutorials are good if they actually prepare the player for the game. It will also promote some to lobby that the main world eventually be changed to the same rule set that they trained on. There by slowly eroding the RvR war simulation.

THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning. Mostly how to set up outposts, where and why. This goes leaps and bounds further towards keeping them in the game than teaching them where on the hull to hit a Belle Poule. Obviously we teach them both. But learning to succeed in a game with long distances, travel time and uncontrollable battle numbers is more important.

But what your missing is the system doesn't make it 1 vs 1.  If your in a group than it will allow others to join the fight until you have equal numbers/br.   So that means you can still have group play.

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This will only result in delaying the group of people who complain things aren't fair ,for a few days.

Good idea in theory but we all survived and if the finished ui has a basic tutorial for gifted people it should be ok.

Im more worried about potential exploits of a influx of alts who can trade for free, level crafting for free and become the danger free zone for try hards.

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No I am not. Tutorials are good. I am arguing against putting new players in an artificial 1v1 matched BR world vs. the regular world. That isn't a tutorial of OW NA. It's an illusion of something it is not. Tutorials are good if they actually prepare the player for the game. It will also promote some to lobby that the main world eventually be changed to the same rule set that they trained on. There by slowly eroding the RvR war simulation.

THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning. Mostly how to set up outposts, where and why. This goes leaps and bounds further towards keeping them in the game than teaching them where on the hull to hit a Belle Poule. Obviously we teach them both. But learning to succeed in a game with long distances, travel time and uncontrollable battle numbers is more important.

Go find me a tutorial where players are repeatedly put in unwinnable confrontations. 

 

The OW is a wretchedly terrible place for learning the basics of gunnery and maneuvers. You forget how much of a learning curve there is between basis combat and intermediate stuff like outpost placement and damage model quirks of individual midgame ships.

 

Most veterans had the luxury of Sea Trials, where an even fight was 30 seconds away.

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But what your missing is the system doesn't make it 1 vs 1.  If your in a group than it will allow others to join the fight until you have equal numbers/br.   So that means you can still have group play.

Solo player LT. has a live oak snow he is using for missions. 50BR. He meets a group of enemies sailing a Merc, Rattler and Snow. They attack him. Only one ship gets in. The only way this battle grows is if the Merc or Rattler does the tag AND the Lt. In the Snow happens to have someone else with him willing to jump in. For the last few years we pretty much played this exact system in dying POTBS. I'm pretty familiar with how it works. What happens is players quickly learn to sail the most powerful ship with the lowest BR and generally never more than two man groups. In POTBS the ship was called the Vengences and it was nearly all you ever saw on the Open sea. Why? Because two Snows can Jump one Mercury but no more than one Mercury can ever jump a Snow. It became a game of calculating BRs rather than sailing around simulating a war.

Anyway, I'm not heavily against this and as I mentioned it is still worth testing. My feeling is that it isn't a perfect solution and it may create some other bad aspects.

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My feeling is that it isn't a perfect solution and it may create some other bad aspects. 

In a tiny area of the map. Which is 100% optional for new players and veterans alike.

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No I am not. Tutorials are good. I am arguing against putting new players in an artificial 1v1 matched BR world vs. the regular world. That isn't a tutorial of OW NA. It's an illusion of something it is not. Tutorials are good if they actually prepare the player for the game. It will also promote some to lobby that the main world eventually be changed to the same rule set that they trained on. There by slowly eroding the RvR war simulation.

THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning. Mostly how to set up outposts, where and why. This goes leaps and bounds further towards keeping them in the game than teaching them where on the hull to hit a Belle Poule. Obviously we teach them both. But learning to succeed in a game with long distances, travel time and uncontrollable battle numbers is more important.

 

 

That is pure garbage, new player tutorials are not strategy guilds, they are basic instructions.

 

The most important thing a tutorial should be teaching players is the game mechanics and basics.  What button opens what menu, how to turn a boat, how to raise/lower sails, how to tack against a wind, what do the crossed swords in the ocean mean, etc.  The basics that every vet forgot that they even learned. (See Dunning Kruger effect)

 

Part of the problem however with building a tutorial now, is that the interface is not finished.  They can't build something to show the basics, because doing so now would be a waste of time, as they would have to do it again when the interface is polished.

 

Now you could build the things you mentioned above in a second level of tutorials, which really should just be help/strategy guilds, but the idea that "THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning" is totally missing the first 30-50 hours of the game where you are just trying to figure out how to drive your ship and shoot your cannons in the right direction.

 

You must start at the very beginning, not where you personally found difficulty.

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Solo player LT. has a live oak snow he is using for missions. 50BR. He meets a group of enemies sailing a Merc, Rattler and Snow. They attack him. Only one ship gets in. The only way this battle grows is if the Merc or Rattler does the tag AND the Lt. In the Snow happens to have someone else with him willing to jump in. For the last few years we pretty much played this exact system in dying POTBS. I'm pretty familiar with how it works. What happens is players quickly learn to sail the most powerful ship with the lowest BR and generally never more than two man groups. In POTBS the ship was called the Vengences and it was nearly all you ever saw on the Open sea. Why? Because two Snows can Jump one Mercury but no more than one Mercury can ever jump a Snow. It became a game of calculating BRs rather than sailing around simulating a war.

Anyway, I'm not heavily against this and as I mentioned it is still worth testing. My feeling is that it isn't a perfect solution and it may create some other bad aspects.

You do know the new newbie ROE are for BRIG and below.  So this guy with 2nd Lt I assume is his rank is 3rd rank and no longer a new player and since he's not in a Brig he doesn't follow by the same rules as the new players.   To be honest I all ready plan to have me a Privater made for those type of folks that will be going after low ranking players in there on tripped out exceptional ships.   

 

Wait wasn't the Vengences Privateer only?  How was every one in them?  I left POTBS pretty much when it truend F2P cause it burned the players that had all ready built up ECONS ( I had 5 accounts there).   I wasn't going to pay for new crafting and BP's and have most mine obsolete.  Though I see what your talking about how it can be abused, but I believe this game has a little better BR system than POTBS did.

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Exactly the concept I was grasping at.

I really think this is the reason we keep hearing pirates are hackers and such when it's really just so call vets suck at the game and just can't admit it cause they never learned the basics.  Instead all they learned was from fleeting AI and ganking in numbers.

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My question out of curiosity since I'm not a new player.

 

How long the rookies will stay there?

How will they be able to transfer to the real capital?

 

They can stay as long as they like.  They can leave when they like, and go back when they like.  It's less about being "new" and more about an area that's locked to smaller ships and a tighter RoE.

 

Hello

Usually I think that Devs have great ideas.... but on this one I feel like Anolytic. PVP servers are for PVP and those, even Young in the game, afraid of it, can start and make their teath on the PVE server before to come back to the PVP servers... so it may be wise to suggest to new players to test the PVE to learn a bit about the game before coming on the PVP severs.... but it would be nice to keep the PVP servers without any 'zones' and specific rules. This is my opinion.... When people will leave this safe zone? After the third rank? But then the fourth rank will be the weakest.. should we have a zone for cerb and light frig? and then one for 5 rates? Advise to people joining the game should be to do some PVE if they want to stay alone and free, or join a socety that will have the duty to take care of them... or take care of themself in a wargame

 

As I said above, vets can go into the zone, new players can leave when they like.  Think of it like an area of small battles in small ships.  It can be a lot of fun even for vets!  I plan to spend some time there myself to relax in an environment where you don't have a bunch of speed rigged Trincs running around (yes, I know, it'll probably have a bunch of pimped out Privateers running around, but that's still a lot more accessible and fun for players that haven't reached higher ranks yet).

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I really think this is the reason we keep hearing pirates are hackers and such when it's really just so call vets suck at the game and just can't admit it cause they never learned the basics.  Instead all they learned was from fleeting AI and ganking in numbers.

I agree.

 

Once I read through the thread on being sunk by leaks, I decided to spend some time deconstructing the skill against AI.  Until that thread I did not really grasp how effective knowing how to water line hit an enemy was. In my experience I would get 1 or 2 leaks, take a bit of water, let the auto survival mechanic fill in the holes and then pump the water.

 

Now that I know how it CAN be used, I have practiced and know how to set my sails to create the ideal list for both making and protecting against the shots.

 

With hacks and cheats so common, and a massive over abundance of ego and special little snowflake treatment in the current education system, it's no wonder that the internet gaming community is filled to capacity with players who not only have a severe case of Dunning Kruger, but that even when presented with the evidence that they are not as good as they think they are, will pass blame onto game mechanics or cheating.

 

It has been going on forever though, as it reminds me of the kids in the arcade that used to beat the shit out of the games when they lost a quarter cause they sucked.

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That is pure garbage, new player tutorials are not strategy guilds, they are basic instructions.

 

The most important thing a tutorial should be teaching players is the game mechanics and basics.  What button opens what menu, how to turn a boat, how to raise/lower sails, how to tack against a wind, what do the crossed swords in the ocean mean, etc.  The basics that every vet forgot that they even learned. (See Dunning Kruger effect)

 

Part of the problem however with building a tutorial now, is that the interface is not finished.  They can't build something to show the basics, because doing so now would be a waste of time, as they would have to do it again when the interface is polished.

 

Now you could build the things you mentioned above in a second level of tutorials, which really should just be help/strategy guilds, but the idea that "THE most important thing I ever teach new players is pre-planning" is totally missing the first 30-50 hours of the game where you are just trying to figure out how to drive your ship and shoot your cannons in the right direction.

 

You must start at the very beginning, not where you personally found difficulty.

What does any of the above have to do with creating a 1v1 noob zone and calling THAT the tutorial. Which is what we're talking about here.

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You do know the new newbie ROE are for BRIG and below.  So this guy with 2nd Lt I assume is his rank is 3rd rank and no longer a new player and since he's not in a Brig he doesn't follow by the same rules as the new players.   To be honest I all ready plan to have me a Privater made for those type of folks that will be going after low ranking players in there on tripped out exceptional ships.   

 

Wait wasn't the Vengences Privateer only?  How was every one in them?  I left POTBS pretty much when it truend F2P cause it burned the players that had all ready built up ECONS ( I had 5 accounts there).   I wasn't going to pay for new crafting and BP's and have most mine obsolete.  Though I see what your talking about how it can be abused, but I believe this game has a little better BR system than POTBS did.

A Snow is a brig in NA that only has a 50BR.

A Privateer generally can't catch a Snow downwind. You may want to consider using a pair of Pickles.

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