Æthlstan Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 The only people still posting in these forums are 90% rabid, 2 minute timer supporters. 90% of the people who dont go on the forums anymore or do not play anymore, left in large part due to the introduction of the 2 minute timer. Time dilation (1.5 OW) is not that big of a difference guys. The 2 minute timer has created a gankers paradise. People say "why dont you sit outside and patrol?" Maybe because its boring and still pretty much impossible to help anyone. Why doesnt anyone help with the intro of the social perk? Because the 2 minute timer killed teamwork. You dont know if that garbled help message was from a player with social. Why should you go waste your time? You cant get out there in time if he doesnt have social, and theres probably more of those toxic players out playong farmville waiting for people to answer the call for help. Its a trap. I've been out patrolling. Ive asked guys to ping me at the first sight of an enemy sail, and Ive rushed out of port (where I enjoy other features of the game, like trading and crafting) to sail towards them and help out if necessary. 9 times out of 10 I am still not in time. You 2 minute timer types gotta be brainwashed and foaming at the mouth, because you never have new things to say, you repeat the same broken record over and over again, and continue to engage in toxic playstyles that drive people away from the game. Have fun collecting ships in Naval Farmville, soon to be PvE for lack of new blood 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 What I don't understand is why a scaled down map and island size with time compressed movement is considered in what people are saying is realistic sail times. People who do not want defenders to be able to help say that the open world is so much faster but fail to consider the speed at which they were able to sail around and gank in the first place. The person who got attacked could not take the realistic hours to put up a distress flag or for land based observers to see a ship getting attacked right off the coast and prepare ships to chase..... a real chase might take hours and therefore give defenders hours to sail out. This happened plenty of times to people like the real life thomas cochrane when he sailed off the french coast. The french knew via semaphore and sent fleets after him or rallied shore based units to repel his raids. In our scaled down open world you are in sight of land. Remember that. Maybe if you gank in sight of enemy land the enemy should get auto social perk I also don't understand why raiders expect not to be outnumbered right outside an enemy capital... that in my book would be common sense. Sail into the lions den with 1 ship and expect a good fair contact. As for patrolling and escorting. Players are real life people and you can only do this occasionally as time is precious. Patrolling and escorting is a thankless job. Raiding is a very positive one with a positive return.... no waiting, just pick whatever you come across, attack what you want and get out. Where you can patrol/escort for hours and get no return. That is why so many people still get caught alone. We are still individuals with individual login times even when in the same clan. Defenders are never going to compete or be able to put up an effective defence as long as the game relies on patrolling and escorts to happen upon somebody getting ganked and then having the attackers log off at end of battle screen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) The only people still posting in these forums are 90% rabid, 2 minute timer supporters. 90% of the people who dont go on the forums anymore or do not play anymore, left in large part due to the introduction of the 2 minute timer. Time dilation (1.5 OW) is not that big of a difference guys. The 2 minute timer has created a gankers paradise. People say "why dont you sit outside and patrol?" Maybe because its boring and still pretty much impossible to help anyone. Why doesnt anyone help with the intro of the social perk? Because the 2 minute timer killed teamwork. You dont know if that garbled help message was from a player with social. Why should you go waste your time? You cant get out there in time if he doesnt have social, and theres probably more of those toxic players out playong farmville waiting for people to answer the call for help. Its a trap. I've been out patrolling. Ive asked guys to ping me at the first sight of an enemy sail, and Ive rushed out of port (where I enjoy other features of the game, like trading and crafting) to sail towards them and help out if necessary. 9 times out of 10 I am still not in time. You 2 minute timer types gotta be brainwashed and foaming at the mouth, because you never have new things to say, you repeat the same broken record over and over again, and continue to engage in toxic playstyles that drive people away from the game. Have fun collecting ships in Naval Farmville, soon to be PvE for lack of new blood I guarantee that server pop has fallen because of this. I remember people in Nation chat asking for help and when we all get out there, the battle is closed, and within sight of a friendly port with lots of players docked up. Then after ganking the player, they just sit in battle screen until we get bored and sail away. Some have waited as long as 45 minutes to get the gankers just waiting in battle screen. I remember people specifically saying "what? thats so stupid" many of them quit because of it. The majority of people who bought this game, bought it with the idea that there would be big naval engagements. The 2 minute timers take that way. Now you can give all the BS talk about time compression and how in RL nobody would know you were getting ganked out at sea, well your RL simulator game is slowly dieing as the pop dwindles more and more every week. Edited September 13, 2016 by Ultravis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Hence why I, and many others, wish to test out the RoE with the 2 circles and overextended area of battle and open(?). Gives an area of operation and the correct speed to "fly" towards the engagement It is not the Socialize per se but the deployment it brings as the ships come from afar and spawn on top of the combat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Æthlstan Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I've been proposing this or something like this for a while now, I think it is better than the Dev's proposal, if a little bit more complicated to implement. Fair to all parties. Battle join timer needs to go away, To address the concerns of OW speed distortion, I propose this: Tagging circle stays, whoever is in the circle will be dragged in. Whoever was in sight of the battle, but outside the tagging circle can join the fight but they will spawn relative to where they were when the tag occured. Those not in sight of the battle at the time of the tag can still join, but they will spawn in on the horizon of the battle instance relative to the direction they approach the battle from. The battle location on OW will shift with the location of the either the tagged party or the tagger. (if possible) and the horizon spawn will adjust accordingly. Leave timers stay the same, so the attacker can board his prize and still feasibly escape before ships on the horizon can arrive. Upon exiting a battle instance, people will appear on the OW relative to where they were in the battle instance This game absolutely cannot go to market without a complete revamp of ROE and tagging. It will fall flat on its face unless a much better combat system like the one I propose is introduced. Others have suggested other ways to fix this problem, some similar to mine and others not, that should be considered and/or tested along with mine. Edited September 13, 2016 by Æthlstan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Devs you better listen to these experts here or the game will tank hard before it even releases. There are market experts, game mechanic experts live on this thread, you simply cannot miss the chance to counsel these professionals! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) I've been proposing this or something like this for a while now, I think it is better than the Dev's proposal, if a little bit more complicated to implement. Fair to all parties. This game absolutely cannot go to market without a complete revamp of ROE and tagging. It will fall flat on its face unless a much better combat system like the one I propose is introduced. Others have suggested other ways to fix this problem, some similar to mine and others not, that should be considered and/or tested along with mine. I am of the same opinion of AEthlstan here. I loved social perk because I was able to join battles previously unable to in the past. I am not saying the Perk wasn't broken or doesn't need change. Rather I think it exemplified the issues with the current tagging and battle timer issues. There needs to be an increase in time for players to join a battle, for both parties. We can all make excuses about players getting "salty" or "mad" when they are hit and expect help but none comes. Those same players though, in many cases, stop playing. Sure a few continue to play, and play differently...some call that "smart play" but it's really just to avoid everyone. If there is no change done to the current RoE and tagging system, then yes, I am of the same mind that this will cause many problems in the future. it's alpha, let us test different things! Hethwill and I differ on opinions, but by god, it's better to test and say we don't like it, then to never test it at all. Edited September 13, 2016 by Teutonic 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Devs you better listen to these experts here or the game will tank hard before it even releases. There are market experts, game mechanic experts live on this thread, you simply cannot miss the chance to counsel these professionals! Being sarcastic doesnt help at all,if people which are playing this game share their thoughts,trying to improve the game. Liking Social Perk or not,there must be a way for those who are attacked,to get some help in a certain time window.That is why the game is still in phase of testing, to make it better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulPYTHON Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) For sure there is something unhistorical here... I guess you were attacked by a light frigate? Renommée or Surprise? Maybe better informed players/historians could enlighten me but I can't remember from accounts that a 3rd to a 1st rate ship (with full complement) would be taken by a frigate in front of a major harbor on a regular base. The lack of maneuverability makes those big ships easy targets. A renommee or surprise can destroy the stern of a ship of the line, then kill its crew and take the ship in less than an hour. yes this is very true but back in the day there were no Timers and the fight was open to all so why close it after 2 - 5 - 30 - 60 minutes.... scared of reinforcements This is Open World everything should be Open I personally would like to see OW battles never close, u want to gank some people afk sailing go right ahead... some other people join and either kill u or u run or u kill them, the fight keeps on going, dont have any friends or nation doesnt care tough luck if u do or they care u can get some help... Its all up to the ones that are more organized. look at another game like eve online there are no separate instances Devs should keep it simple Edited September 13, 2016 by SoulPYTHON 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I have always been advocating for longer timers. When we had 5-10 min timers there where battles all over the place. They where easy to access and so fun to play. What happened is that we have now a battle system that favours those who use hours on end to organise pbs on TS. The casuals have left as the amount of fun versus time spended is absurd. The hard cores won the arguments in here by screaming louder. The rest just left. Yesterday I used 2 hours trying to find a battle. But no. Nothing. A world empty. What did I do? Switched to a game with more action... Just to compensate. The 2 min timers is the worst thing ever happened to this game IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) A game that provide the term "battle is closed" can not stand!! Edited September 13, 2016 by fox2run 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 A game that provide the term "battle is closed" can not stand!! I agree. Join battles from where you stand - extended join disc. Sail up at instance time scale speed to the action spot in the distance. The same way this should be always enabled the "control" should be always enabled. The closure rate is fast and should overcome any need of shooting to tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eishen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 ... the "control" should be always enabled. ... Can not agree more, being forced to put a shot each minute -to prevent coward perk- or having an enemy dissapearing at extremely close quarters is most irritating. The perk could work as a range extender but a basic version should be applied allways as standard RoE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) The battles system is somewhat mediocre if not bad per se. Try to role the timers back to 5 or 10 min and see what happens! Yes some players will get ganked - even 10-1 - but it doesnt matter really. Its a matter of perception. Once you get caught at open sea everything is possible... With 5-10 min at least you can have a chance for reinforcements and large battles that develop over time - it was VERY exciting how to see a battle could develop over time with diffferent reinforcements etc... The pro-gankers and dedicated TSers will maybe have to change play-style but take my 2 cents: the player base will grow as the game will be a LOT more action-packed! We know it - becourse we have tried it! The game was a lot more fun back in say February. You could take your ship sail in maybe 5 min and BOOM a battle! Rarely you had "the Battle is closed". Now its just frustrating. More often you wont be able to join the fun. Its not alone makes a boring game but also makes a very, very poor marketing strategy. Hey - we have this game. You sail in a ship the whole evening and maybe you will enjoy a battle that takes an hour where you are 5 ships hunting a trader with bow-chaser until he surrender! Not a chance man!! You need to expand the timers ASAP!!! Edited September 13, 2016 by fox2run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 social will be reworked it will allow unlimited entry for the weaker side up to 1v1 (+/- 20%) BR but not more. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Perfect. Was the RoE 2 circle idea ditched or shall we have a chance to test it ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Æthlstan Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Social is a stopgap measure and any RoE improvements need to be applied unilaterally to the entire playerbase 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Funny, the people in this forum thread getting vitriolic are also people who play pirate and like the current gank mechanics as they are. I do not like ganking, even tho that I play as a pirate. I do gank 2vs1, but normally nothing bigger than that. I would prefer that in this case, the enemy could bring reinforces up to BR rate, enemy could even have a bit more, that would be ok for me as well. But I do not like the idea that the other side can bring endless stream of reinforcements. The sociable perk was providing unrealistic TP gank fleet in battles -> Guys from other side to the caribbean came in the same battle. Endless stream also makes bigger clans/nations stronger vs smaller ones. ...When in reality all 6 of them probably should be able to defend their home... I'm not saying players shouldn't be able to rescue. I'm saying they need to be able to rescue with the full force of whatever they have at the port. I'm against tying the hands of rescuers. They have it hard enough already. In reality, none would come to help, as they would not know about it. I understand, that if they fight really near a port, it would work ok, but probably would not work too well in a game. The second one, I am sailing on my 3rd rate, outside of port Sunbury, 5 ships jump me, my 2 buddies leave port and the swords are right there in front of them, but cannot join to help because of 2 min no join and 2 min battle timers. I am easily defeated as they board and take my ship. There could be one pirate outside of Sunbury. You attack the single pirate... After that 10 pirates will jump out from Sunbury and rape you. Then you come here to cry, but from the opposite. social will be reworked it will allow unlimited entry for the weaker side up to 1v1 (+/- 20%) BR but not more. This sounds like a good idea. What if there is 1 Santissima (900BR) vs 8 Renommees (880BR) ??? I quite do not understand the concept of 1v1 (+/- 20%) BR. Does it mean that another 7 ships can join that are in range of 88-132 BR? Or is it about total BR, so almost no ships can join this scenario? So if this is that +/- 20% BR of each ship, then most likely when there are only Renommees, the only capable ships to join are: Renommees, Cerberus, Niagara and smaller? BR rated system is better than the one we have atm. Do not have opinion if BR rates should be rebalanced, I am sure devs will check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Oh ye lovers of Social Perk magic, get thee to your "Rookie Zone".... http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16431-rookie-regions-new-player-experience/#entry311209 Edited September 13, 2016 by Vernon Merrill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herpaderp64 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just think if a few of the probably 50 brits just sitting in port where sitting outside kpr. You would got saved. Otoh dont sail line ships alone. i was sailing from carlisle to kpr though the gankers should not be that close sure i understand that they like to attack lone ships but right outside kpr? really? its just not right and it quite simply was the worst day on naval action atm for me by far Oh ye lovers of Social Perk magic, get the to your "Rookie Zone".... http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16431-rookie-regions-new-player-experience/#entry311209 oh so you like being attacked right outside your home port huh? or is it because your one of the little weasils who do this type of sh*t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herpaderp64 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Why would you take that ship out solo when you know there are enemies around? Again, poor player decision. poor player deicision? please explain to me in a paragraph why sailing to a port right next to carlisle is bad decision and no i wasn't alone i was actually in a group but as i said 2 minute timer they couldn't even help me and no i didn't know there were enemies around because i was in group chat so do not call me a poor player. good day to you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) i was sailing from carlisle to kpr though the gankers should not be that close sure i understand that they like to attack lone ships but right outside kpr? really? its just not right and it quite simply was the worst day on naval action atm for me by far oh so you like being attacked right outside your home port huh? or is it because your one of the little weasils who do this type of sh*t? I either: A) Sail in something I know I have a reasonable chance of escaping with. b: Find a friend, who also realizes that sailing alone in an MMO is dangerous. C) Accept that these are pixel ships and loss provides a benefit for crafters. D) Lose my favorite ship, kick my dog, yell at my wife, punch my neighbor, set my PC on fire and never play the game again..... and P.S.-- If you the other ships couldnt join your battle within 2 mins, you weren't "sailing in a group" Listen, I didnt call you a "bad player". I said you made a "bad decision" So do I sometimes. Edited September 13, 2016 by Vernon Merrill 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herpaderp64 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) Agreed. Rule #1: Never take a 1st rate out to sea alone. Although thank you for demonstrating again how "social perk" was really just an attemp to mask bad player choices. It was a second rate not a first why the f*ck would i take my victory out alone thats just stupid i took my buc because it has 2 dura for this exact scenario so please call that a bad player decision even though i wanted to use my vic i had a gut feeling i'd get screwed over and i was right and i'm glad i sailed my buc but the point of this post is for people to understand the benefits that an increased join time gave us even just an extra 5 minute join time would be a blessing to yes save newer players from bad decisions im sorry if no one's a master at the game like you apparently are. tbh i bet you made those same "bad player choices" yourself (didn't see your comment in reply to mine at the time of writing this) Edited September 13, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby Removed personal insult - please disagree with each other with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Terkildsen Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 social will be reworked it will allow unlimited entry for the weaker side up to 1v1 (+/- 20%) BR but not more. I really don't want to see anything like that perk again. Changing the most fundamental rules of PvP with perks is just wrong. The social, coward, and area control perks all show that the developers are not confident that these basic rules are good enough, so we should much rather look at finding a solution that doesn't require such perks (trying the two-circle suggestion for example, or similar ones - though I must say the current system is quite fine, excepting that I agree that area control should be a rule for all and the coward trait should be removed). At the very least (or until they're hopefully removed) let us know if players have these perks on them, so we can act accordingly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Did you even read my reply, man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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